2 nyc cops executed...

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KurtR Said:
should garner have resisted? 

Yes.

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gst Said:

Quincy you really have to read a bit more than wiki.
 

The autopsy from the medical examiner attributed his death to homicide – meaning death at the hands of another party, not murder, in medical parlance – and stated that he died thanks to “Compression of neck (choke hold), compression of chest and prone positioning during physical restraint by police.” But the autopsy further noted that Garner died thanks to acute and chronic bronchial asthma, obesity, and heart disease.

Quincy certainly "interacting" with cops makes you an expert.

 
Please explain ot us how you would deal with a 400 lb man who has a long record of arrests that has told you messin with him "ends here" .
 
You are now comparing work related accidents (oil field) to intentional actions meant to harm someone?

Put on a badge quincy and respond to a call in some of these neighborhoods and see how "safe" you feel.

 
Quincy, I wonder if it were "sconis" that had multiple arrests for an action if you would consider the actions taken against them "harrassing".

Is this a joke? You're bolding a sentance after the one I told you. Are you suggesting I was wrong?

No it doesn't make me an expert, just as it doesn't make you an expert to criticize Obama without being a president. If one has to be an expert in order to air greviences, this entire forum would be shut down. Cut the crap on that line of thinking, it will get you nowhere (considering you aren't an expert either).

I don't give a shit about how they "feel". Their "feelings" currently aren't reasonable considering that cops aren't being killed and violent crime is dropping everywhere. I feel scared going to a dentist office, does that mean I can beat the shit out of him? No.

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gst Said:
You are now comparing work related accidents (oil field) to intentional actions meant to harm someone?

Quincy, I wonder if it were "sconis" that had multiple arrests for an action if you would consider the actions taken against them "harrassing".

Yes. Actions that are meant to kill an officer have happend twice in the last 4 years. How many oil field workers have died in the last year? You brought up safety, don't complain when it's shown that their job is safer now than it ever has been, regardless of whatever trumped up claims they may spout.

What the hell do "sconis" have to do with anything? Is this just another attempt to muddy the waters so you don't have to face your own shitty arguments?

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Plainsman Said:
More of that liberal mentality of guilty until proven innocent. 

Which jury said that Garner was guilty before he was killed? Or does he not count for this metric because he was black and a previous criminal?

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Garfield Said:
  I guess you don't understand the organizational and funding role of the neo Anarchists behind this nonsense as well as Occupy?

The same could be said about the Tea Party. Congrats you've thoroughly debunked all major movements in the US. Now what?

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Quincy05 Said:

gst Said:
Quincy, out of the several comments I have offfered please address this one if you would.

Sitting in a theater watching a premier of some blockbuster and someone suddenly yells fire.

People look around, but no one really moves cause who actually is stupid enough to yell fire in a crowded movie theater right.

Then a second person sets off a couple smoke bombs and rolls them down the aisles. A few people stand up but there were enough that saw what happened and still no real panic.

Then a third person intentionally and with evil intent sets off the fire alarm and suddenly someone panics and soon every one is screaming in the smoke filled room and suddenly people are being trampled to get out of the theater and a young girl is killed. 

Who is responsible?

Each act in and of itself alone likely would not have caused that girls death, but put them all together and who is to be held responsible?

Hahaha, are you suggesting that those three people were acting independently?? This is a terrible hypothetical because it is out of the realm of possibility if your assumption is they are independent. In all likelyhood they would be working together and all three would be charged together.

Again, if you think the protestors and vocal public officials should be criminally charged, you have no basic understanding of the first amendment and how it relates to situations like this.

Quincy it was a pretty straight forward scenario to show how one action in and of itself may not be a causation of an end result but multiple actions placed together can certainly shape an outcome.
 
You seem to want to place words into other people mouths Quincy. Please show where I have said Al Sharpton should be charged.

The 1st amendment while granting free speech, also requires a responsibility to go with that speech. These responsibilities sometimes have nothing to do with "legal" standing but are more of a moral nature. (liberals hate that accountability standard of free speech)

If you can look me in the eye and tell me Al Sharpton had no moral impact on the actions of people calling for dead cops and actual dead cops by fanning the flames of  bad situations with self serving rhetoric...................I really have nothing else to say to you.

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Kelly Thomas was killed and the officers were aqcuited. They were still fired.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Kelly_Thomas#Employment_termination

Just because a grand jury didn't return charges against the officer that killed Garner, doesn't mean he should still have a job.

And just because he was an asshole doesn't mean the other two officers deserved to die.

And just because they died doesn't mean that Obama, Holder, Sharpton, et al are in any way, shape, or form to blame.

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Quincy05 Said:

gst Said:
Quincy, please show where anyone on here has said a cop that repeatedly crosses a line should not be dealt with properly.

So the officer that was involved in Garner's death, what should happen to him? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Eric_Garner#Daniel_Pantaleo

Already has had two lawsuits against him, a federal investigation, a grand jury hearing, and possibly a 3rd lawsuit. This is in the last 2 years. Should he keep his job?

Quincy, I will readily admit I have no where close to the knowledge and factual  information to make that call.

If you think I do not support cops with an above the law attitude being held responsible and accountable you do not know me very well.

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gst Said:

Quincy it was a pretty straight forward scenario to show how one action in and of itself may not be a causation of an end result but multiple actions placed together can certainly shape an outcome.
 

And it was pretty straightforward that it wasn't close to what happened in this case. Thanks for trying, do better next time.

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Quincy05 Said:

gst Said:
And yet you claim others are "hyper partisan".

Have you not noticed how this entire thread I've railed against the left for doing the exact same thing? The left wrongfully did it against Palin and the tea party and the right are wrongfullly doing it now. I'm not the one trying to make my side seem kosher with crappy excuses.

Post the entire comment you made prior to my response quincy.

Once again I am baffled how you seem to want to equitably compare Sara Palins comments and actions to those of the good reverand Sharptons.

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gst Said:
If you do not understand the power of "rhetoric" in the actions of a fundametalist radical jihadist.......................THAT is "amazing.

If you do not understand the difference between "rhetoric" and "actively recruiting, training, financing, and ordering"..... that is mind boggling....

That you do not understand that to get someone to a point they will commit suicide to carry out a religious jihad does NOT require carfullly contrived rhetoric is what is mind boggling.

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gst Said:

You seem to want to place words into other people mouths Quincy. Please show where I have said Al Sharpton should be charged.

The 1st amendment while granting free speech, also requires a responsibility to go with that speech. These responsibilities sometimes have nothing to do with "legal" standing but are more of a moral nature. (liberals hate that accountability standard of free speech)

If you can look me in the eye and tell me Al Sharpton had no moral impact on the actions of people calling for dead cops and actual dead cops by fanning the flames of  bad situations with self serving rhetoric...................I really have nothing else to say to you.

So you want people to protest Sharpton? Okay, feel free to continue that. To say any blame should be placed on him for the shooter is still disingenous.

No, Sharpton did not have any moral impact on the people calling for dead cops. There has been no evidence of this in this thread, nor have I seen any anywhere. You may think that is the case, but without evidence backing it up, you only have speculation. And speculation is what causes people to say all cops are racist. Congrats, you're no better than those you wish to protest.

How about in a thread about two dead officers, the guy who shot them is the one that is blamed. The pedantic whining about protests and those you disagree with politically take away from the fact this deranged asshole killed two cops, when they didn't need to die. It also takes away from the fact he shot his ex-girlfriend FIRST, without anyone apparently protesting her. It shows that he was seriously delusional. The fact that he used the protests as an excuse, doesn't lead credence to the claims those protests are at fault. Correlation does not equal causation

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Quincy05 Said:

gst Said:
Who is saying they shouldn't?

Fired and convicted of murder are two pretty different things.

Strung up or shot in the head is even more of a difference.

Damn near everyone on here suggests that the protesters are completely wrong and have no basis because Garner resisted arrest. This isn't even touching the Brown/Wilson case.

How about Gurley and Liang? Should he be fired at minimum? Yes or no?

Liang had a gun when confronted by the cops, not smart, maybe thats why he got shot?

Officials said Liang was holding a flashlight in his right hand and a Glock 9-mm. in the other when he opened the door to the eighth-floor landing.

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gst Said:
That you do not understand that to get someone to a point they will commit suicide to carry out a religious jihad does NOT require carfullly contrived rhetoric is what is mind boggling.

So that's all 9/11 was? A simple suicide mission based on vague rhetoric? Do you really not know the background of it or are you just minimalizing it to make a weak point?

Congrats, conservatives are to blame for the Las Vegas cop killers...
http://www.startribune.com/262333211.html

LAS VEGAS — A husband and wife who went on a deadly shooting rampage in Las Vegas harbored anti-government beliefs and left a swastika and a "Don't tread on me" flag on the body of one of the two police officers they killed, authorities said Monday.

Jerad and Amanda Miller had been kicked off a Nevada ranch where anti-government protesters faced down federal agents earlier this year because they were "very radical," according to the son of rancher Cliven Bundy.

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Quincy05 Said:

KurtR Said:
 just think all of this could be avoided if people would just follow simple instructions. would the one clown been shot if he didnt attack the cop?  would have fat albert been chocked out if he would have listened?

So you cowtow to any order a cop gives? Again, what if he tells you to do something illegal or what if his order is illegal?

If the story by Garner's friend is correct, the cops had no probable cause to search Garner, let alone attempt to arrest him.

Due process exists for everyone, not just the bad cops you guys are so hell bent on defending.

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Colt45 Said:
Liang had a gun when confronted by the cops, not smart, maybe thats why he got shot?

Officials said Liang was holding a flashlight in his right hand and a Glock 9-mm. in the other when he opened the door to the eighth-floor landing.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA, try reading the article a little closer. Protip: Gurley was shot (unarmed) Liang was the Officer.

This completely illustrates the problem of immediately assuming the ones that died are at fault for some crime they commited.

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Quincy05 Said:

Plainsman Said:
Quincy why don't you tell us why your more informed than a grand jury, internal affairs, eye witnesses etc. 

The grand juries in these cases were bullshit.

http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/ferguson-michael-brown-indictment-darren-wilson/

If you don't understand that, basically it says for civilians there is a 99%+ charge rate, for cops it's almost the opposite. That the grand jury didn't come back in either case is more indicative of a poor/corrupt prosecutor then a fault of them.

And eye witnesses are contradictory in both Brown and Garner.

And internal affairs hasn't even had an investigation yet. http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2014/12/10/nypds-internal-affairs-questions-officer-involved-in-eric-garner-death/

Do you know why that is Quincy?  Because unlike dip shits like you, most people on the grand juries understand what cops go through, they take the time to examine the evidence, and they come back with a decision that is fair based on the evidence.  Has it ever occurred to you the reason the charge rate is so low is that it is a rare event when a cop actually commits a criminal act in the performance of their duty or do cops not get the same prosumption of innocence as regular citizens?  If I'm going to give the benefit of the doubt to someone it will be to the men and women that put on a badge everyday and go to work to protect others.  It will not be to the person that already has 30+ arrests on their record and decides to resist arrest.  It will not be to a thug that robs a convenience store and assaults a clerk for no reason whatsoever.  They made their own beds. 

What gives you the right to question the grand juries?  Were you there?  Did you here the evidence?  Did you get to judge the truthfulness of peoples statements for yourself and not rely on media accounts of what happened?  Did you get to examine autopsy results in detail before coming to your corrupt conclusions?  The Constitution is written to give the benefit of the doubt to people accused of a crime - all people including cops.  These grand juries found that not only was there not going to be enough evidence to convict them, there wasn't even enough to charge them.  I can't think of a job where there would be more opportunity to be falsely accused of wrongdoing. None of these criminals want to take responsibility for their own actions and none of these protesters are willing to hold them accountable for their actions.  It's always someone else's fault.  Are all cops perfect?  Of course not, in fact none of them are but I will give them the benefit of the doubt until they are proven guilty beyond that reasonable doubt.

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Quincy05 Said:

gst Said:
You are now comparing work related accidents (oil field) to intentional actions meant to harm someone?

Quincy, I wonder if it were "sconis" that had multiple arrests for an action if you would consider the actions taken against them "harrassing".

Yes. Actions that are meant to kill an officer have happend twice in the last 4 years. How many oil field workers have died in the last year? You brought up safety, don't complain when it's shown that their job is safer now than it ever has been, regardless of whatever trumped up claims they may spout.

What the hell do "sconis" have to do with anything? Is this just another attempt to muddy the waters so you don't have to face your own shitty arguments?

Quincy for some reason if you ever did put on a badge and patrol some of the neighborhoods in Miami, Chicago, LA it would be interesting to hear your take after a couple years.

Talk is cheap sitting behind a computer screen there 05.

People have refered to you as a troll, trolls simple post bullshit to keep an arguement going, I actually get the impression you believe the foolish crap you post.

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labhunter66 Said:
 Do you know why that is Quincy?  Because unlike dip shits like you, most people on the grand juries understand what cops go through, they take the time to examine the evidence, and they come back with a decision that is fair based on the evidence.  Has it ever occurred to you the reason the charge rate is so low is that it is a rare event when a cop actually commits a criminal act in the performance of their duty or do cops not get the same prosumption of innocence as regular citizens?  If I'm going to give the benefit of the doubt to someone it will be to the men and women that put on a badge everyday and go to work to protect others.  It will not be to the person that already has 30+ arrests on their record and decides to resist arrest.  It will not be to a thug that robs a convenience store and assaults a clerk for no reason whatsoever.  They made their own beds. 

What you said was completely contradictory and you are too blind to realize it. On one hand grand juries know police have it tough so they don't bring charges, but on the other police are always charged when they do something bad.

Do you even know why grand juries fail to charge when it comes to cops? Hint: it's not simply about feelings for cops. Hint 2: Who shows the evidence to the juries while simultaneously works closely with those being charged? It's not the cops.

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Hey quin,take a break,you don't have to be a dickweed on every page JHC,now on pg10 its all you pal,your not going change opinions here,like I said before your behind the curve and cherry pick what suits you regarding these events.Maybe take a stand at one of these BS protests with your brothers and see how that's works for ya,if your lucky you might get a beat down,in which case play dead~

Perazzi usa
Benelli usa
Briley Chokes
 

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Quincy,  Some food for thought .   Do you think was Paul Harvey a jerk too ?

 

 

 

Life is good
 

 

 

 

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gst Said:

Quincy for some reason if you ever did put on a badge and patrol some of the neighborhoods in Miami, Chicago, LA it would be interesting to hear your take after a couple years.

Talk is cheap sitting behind a computer screen there 05.

People have refered to you as a troll, trolls simple post bullshit to keep an arguement going, I actually get the impression you believe the foolish crap you post.

Illinois: 2 cops died in the line of duty. 1 from heat exhaustion, the other from a car accident.

California: 14 cops.

Florida: 6.

http://www.odmp.org/search/year

Tell me again how it's so dangerous for cops this day and age.

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snow Said:
Hey quin,take a break,you don't have to be a dickweed on every page JHC,now on pg10 its all you pal,your not going change opinions here,like I said before your behind the curve and cherry pick what suits you regarding these events.Maybe take a stand at one of these BS protests with your brothers and see how that's works for ya,if your lucky you might get a beat down,in which case play dead~

Okay, buddy, let's be cordial. What exactly am I cherry picking? Why would I get beat at a peaceful protest? And if I'm behind the curve, does that suggest you think bad cops shouldn't be fired?

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Davy Crockett Said:
 

Quincy,  Some food for thought .   Do you think was Paul Harvey a jerk too ?

Where's that facepalm smiley...

Hey Davy, do you think Timothy Loehmann was a stand up officer as well?

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Quincy05 Said:

gst Said:

You seem to want to place words into other people mouths Quincy. Please show where I have said Al Sharpton should be charged.

The 1st amendment while granting free speech, also requires a responsibility to go with that speech. These responsibilities sometimes have nothing to do with "legal" standing but are more of a moral nature. (liberals hate that accountability standard of free speech)

If you can look me in the eye and tell me Al Sharpton had no moral impact on the actions of people calling for dead cops and actual dead cops by fanning the flames of  bad situations with self serving rhetoric...................I really have nothing else to say to you.

So you want people to protest Sharpton? Okay, feel free to continue that. To say any blame should be placed on him for the shooter is still disingenous.

No, Sharpton did not have any moral impact on the people calling for dead cops. There has been no evidence of this in this thread, nor have I seen any anywhere. You may think that is the case, but without evidence backing it up, you only have speculation. And speculation is what causes people to say all cops are racist. Congrats, you're no better than those you wish to protest.

How about in a thread about two dead officers, the guy who shot them is the one that is blamed. The pedantic whining about protests and those you disagree with politically take away from the fact this deranged asshole killed two cops, when they didn't need to die. It also takes away from the fact he shot his ex-girlfriend FIRST, without anyone apparently protesting her. It shows that he was seriously delusional. The fact that he used the protests as an excuse, doesn't lead credence to the claims those protests are at fault. Correlation does not equal causation

And Hitler had no moral impact on millions of Jews being gassed either.

I indeed hold the person that actually committed the act responsible. But you have no more way of knowing inflamatory rhetoric did NOT play a role in his actions than I do of knowing for certain it did.

But what can be understood is the likelyhood of protests turning violent increases when someone is inciting actions in the manner the good reverand does.

Do you really think millions of Jews would have been sent to the gas chamber or baked alive if it had not been for the "rhetoric" of one man?


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gst Said:
And Hitler had no moral impact on millions of Jews being gassed either.

No, he just had a DRASTICALLY LARGE implicit impact when he ordered the Jews to be gassed.

Come on, be better than this. Surely your argument has more merit than comparing protestors and Obama to Hitler.

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gst Said:
And Hitler had no moral impact on millions of Jews being gassed either.

I indeed hold the person that actually committed the act responsible. But you have no more way of knowing inflamatory rhetoric did NOT play a role in his actions than I do of knowing for certain it did.

But what can be understood is the likelyhood of protests turning violent increases when someone is inciting actions in the manner the good reverand does.

Do you really think millions of Jews would have been sent to the gas chamber or baked alive if it had not been for the "rhetoric" of one man?


Do you think the Tea Party and conservatives should be held morally responsible for the cops killed in Las Vegas? For Loughner? For the OKC bombing?

Where is the line drawn in rhetoric to moral blame? Does there need to be set time after rhetoric to insure that said rhetoric is the cause for the action and not just a coincidence? Does the line always fall on one side of the political spectrum? Do you think cops should be held morally responsible because of the actions of the bad cops? Do you think the rhetoric of the police union will have any effect on actions of the NYPD?

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Quincy05 Said:

gst Said:
That you do not understand that to get someone to a point they will commit suicide to carry out a religious jihad does NOT require carfullly contrived rhetoric is what is mind boggling.

So that's all 9/11 was? A simple suicide mission based on vague rhetoric? Do you really not know the background of it or are you just minimalizing it to make a weak point?

Congrats, conservatives are to blame for the Las Vegas cop killers...
http://www.startribune.com/262333211.html

LAS VEGAS — A husband and wife who went on a deadly shooting rampage in Las Vegas harbored anti-government beliefs and left a swastika and a "Don't tread on me" flag on the body of one of the two police officers they killed, authorities said Monday.

Jerad and Amanda Miller had been kicked off a Nevada ranch where anti-government protesters faced down federal agents earlier this year because they were "very radical," according to the son of rancher Cliven Bundy.

Quincy once again where have I said "thats all 911 was" ? You seem to want to make up what people say.
 
How do you get someone to fly a plane into a building killing themselves and thousands of others including women and children without brain washing them with "rhetoric" quincy? Please explain that.


That may indeed not be the sole "causation" but there is a definate "correlation".

Seems like "conservatives" wanted nothing to do with these people. Can you show where a conservative "reverand" was standing in front of national TV cameras calling for actions against cops in Nevada.
 
Wait a minute, I thought you claimed being a cop was safe.
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labhunter66 Said:
 

Quincy05 Said:

Plainsman Said:
Quincy why don't you tell us why your more informed than a grand jury, internal affairs, eye witnesses etc. 

The grand juries in these cases were bullshit.

http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/ferguson-michael-brown-indictment-darren-wilson/

If you don't understand that, basically it says for civilians there is a 99%+ charge rate, for cops it's almost the opposite. That the grand jury didn't come back in either case is more indicative of a poor/corrupt prosecutor then a fault of them.

And eye witnesses are contradictory in both Brown and Garner.

And internal affairs hasn't even had an investigation yet. http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2014/12/10/nypds-internal-affairs-questions-officer-involved-in-eric-garner-death/

Do you know why that is Quincy?  Because unlike dip shits like you, most people on the grand juries understand what cops go through, they take the time to examine the evidence, and they come back with a decision that is fair based on the evidence.  Has it ever occurred to you the reason the charge rate is so low is that it is a rare event when a cop actually commits a criminal act in the performance of their duty or do cops not get the same prosumption of innocence as regular citizens?  If I'm going to give the benefit of the doubt to someone it will be to the men and women that put on a badge everyday and go to work to protect others.  It will not be to the person that already has 30+ arrests on their record and decides to resist arrest.  It will not be to a thug that robs a convenience store and assaults a clerk for no reason whatsoever.  They made their own beds. 

What gives you the right to question the grand juries?  Were you there?  Did you here the evidence?  Did you get to judge the truthfulness of peoples statements for yourself and not rely on media accounts of what happened?  Did you get to examine autopsy results in detail before coming to your corrupt conclusions?  The Constitution is written to give the benefit of the doubt to people accused of a crime - all people including cops.  These grand juries found that not only was there not going to be enough evidence to convict them, there wasn't even enough to charge them.  I can't think of a job where there would be more opportunity to be falsely accused of wrongdoing. None of these criminals want to take responsibility for their own actions and none of these protesters are willing to hold them accountable for their actions.  It's always someone else's fault.  Are all cops perfect?  Of course not, in fact none of them are but I will give them the benefit of the doubt until they are proven guilty beyond that reasonable doubt.

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Quincy05 Said:

gst Said:

Quincy for some reason if you ever did put on a badge and patrol some of the neighborhoods in Miami, Chicago, LA it would be interesting to hear your take after a couple years.

Talk is cheap sitting behind a computer screen there 05.

People have refered to you as a troll, trolls simple post bullshit to keep an arguement going, I actually get the impression you believe the foolish crap you post.

Illinois: 2 cops died in the line of duty. 1 from heat exhaustion, the other from a car accident.

California: 14 cops.

Florida: 6.

http://www.odmp.org/search/year

Tell me again how it's so dangerous for cops this day and age.

Quincy when was the last time someone aimed a gun (albeit poorly aka gangster style) and fired off a few rounds your direction?

Just becasue they are not shot and killed................................

For some reason when I picture you in a uniform with a badge  I have a picture in my mind of a wet behind the ears little fella cowering behind a car while someone else runs out and grabs a kid in the street in the middle of some gang shoot out.

Big talk sitting behind a computer.

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