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 So all of you over population morons.  You do know that white europe is actually shrinking and being replaced by Muslims.  You do know that 50 million aborted american babies have been replaced by 50 million illegal immigrants... right..... Not tied to any religion....  Until somebody can definitively tell me when life starts, there is a chance that abortion is Murder.  Who could take that chance?

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 Comfortable with the fact that my wife and I had five kids and no abortion.
Money never was part of the decision.  She just kept getting pregnant.
There is no excuse to get pregnant if you do not want the kid.
If the female will not take care of it then the male can.
Yes, there are times to abort.
For those who have the perfect reason to justify abortion, I hope for your sake the one who will makes the final judgement will buy into your justification.
Thanks dB.

Db

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Thank you. Although I am torn on the topic of abortion, I still believe it is a choice that should be left the individual. Same goes with a black gun with a huge mag.  

huntinforfish Said:
I like to look at this in a whole other direction. A lot of us on here think or say that we are all about our freedoms. Especially when it comes to our guns. No one wants their "freedom" or right to bear arms to go away. We all say that the government has no right to tell us what we can do with our beloved personal possessions(guns). So how can we say this and then turn around and say I want the government to dictate what we can do with our own bodies. Where is the line? You want freedom or not? Your either free or your not! Think about it...


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 Yes, I am sure our kids are glad we did not Abort.
 Can not imagine life without them or the grand kids.
I quess someone else can help out with the overpopulation.
They all work and do contribute.
Db

Db

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Tim Sandstrom Said:

Murdock Said:

This is another one of those that beats in the back of my head.

I just think, what if it happened to someone I knew?  Lets say my wife.  It would be a difficult 9 months and then you'd find out this baby could kill my wife during birth or before.  I'd have a long mean talk with God about that.

But point is, I know what you are saying murdock but dangit, it is not as cut and dry as someone that gets hammered and decides to take a roll in the hay.  Or some other severely unplanned pregnancy.  Those people made decisions they could stop.

I think you would most likely find that the child is no less of a miracle than one that was conceived in love, and shouldn't have any less of a right to life.  Although a horrible situation for the woman, I can't understand why it would need to be made worse.  The odds of getting raped during that small window of fertility in a woman's cycle must be pretty slim, and I would hope that the woman, with her husband, if married, would consider that perhaps God had this plan for them and this child.  

Tim, you have to put your trust in God and quit worrying about the 2.3 kid thing.  Remember, he won't give you more than you can handle.  Right now you are thinking about yourself and how you will be affected in any number of possible scenarios.  To me, the absolute joy of parenthood was/is the total committment of yourself to the well-being of another human being for the rest of your life.  

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 Agree.  Babies happen.  For the wife and I if we would of consider monies in having babies we would not of had five.  I quess we might of had more material items, another gun or two, more monies in the bank and so on.  Less headaches in raising kids.  Maybe one less welfare case as some state. (however they all work and contribute).
But those material items and more monies do not even come close to what life is about.
Have the babies if that is what you feel you want with the marriage.  Take care of them and provide for them.  You will not regret.  For those with the more practical mind.  Well to each his own.  DB

Db

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Abortion is the symptom of no religion.  Some laugh about religion, but it's our moral compass.  Without it what makes any murder wrong?   Just because it is???  That don't hold water.  Remember the old cliche from the 60's "if it feels good do it"?   Maybe that should stand up in court for gay paedophiles.  Your honor we like to bend over little boys because it feels good.  If there is no God then anything is ok.   Who are you to say that a murderer should go to jail.  Who are you to say that a paedophile has no right to sex with a four year old.  Who are you to say it's wrong for me to break into your home steal your money, have sex with your daughter, shoot your wife, and stab you?  If it isn't sin what's wrong with it?   Just because you think it's wrong doesn't mean anything.  Just because we have laws doesn't mean anything.  What makes it all wrong?

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Plainsman Said:
Abortion is the symptom of no religion.  Some laugh about religion, but it's our moral compass.  Without it what makes any murder wrong?   Just because it is???  That don't hold water.  Remember the old cliche from the 60's "if it feels good do it"?   Maybe that should stand up in court for gay paedophiles.  Your honor we like to bend over little boys because it feels good.  If there is no God then anything is ok.   Who are you to say that a murderer should go to jail.  Who are you to say that a paedophile has no right to sex with a four year old.  Who are you to say it's wrong for me to break into your home steal your money, have sex with your daughter, shoot your wife, and stab you?  If it isn't sin what's wrong with it?   Just because you think it's wrong doesn't mean anything.  Just because we have laws doesn't mean anything.  What makes it all wrong?

WOW!!!! I like that.

Abortion is a touchy subject. There are so many variables that go along with it. I am glad I wasnt aborted. My mom was 16 and the doctor told her that is what she should do. I wasnt married when I got my fiance pregnant. I was in shock when she told me. I thought wow, the consequences of pleasure. 9 years ago today, my first son was born and what a blessing he has been. 3 kids later, I took care of the whole getting my wife pregnant issue, if she becomes pregnant, our marriage isnt as good as I thought. The journey of life I have all began when my parents stood up to the dr and accepted the RESPONSIBILITY of their choice that one night, so that I could have life. I am very grateful for that.

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Plainsman Said:
Abortion is the symptom of no religion.  Some laugh about religion, but it's our moral compass.  Without it what makes any murder wrong?   Just because it is???  That don't hold water.  Remember the old cliche from the 60's "if it feels good do it"?   Maybe that should stand up in court for gay paedophiles.  Your honor we like to bend over little boys because it feels good.  If there is no God then anything is ok.   Who are you to say that a murderer should go to jail.  Who are you to say that a paedophile has no right to sex with a four year old.  Who are you to say it's wrong for me to break into your home steal your money, have sex with your daughter, shoot your wife, and stab you?  If it isn't sin what's wrong with it?   Just because you think it's wrong doesn't mean anything.  Just because we have laws doesn't mean anything.  What makes it all wrong?

God made the laws then is what your saying?

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 didn't Tim just tell me all sins are forgiven? So by religious rules even Hitler and his good morals has a place in heaven?  If you need a religion to keep you from killing people I would suggest seeking psychiatric help as well, just in case you ever lose a little bit of that faith.

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BringingTheRain Said:

Tim Sandstrom Said:

multi-species-angler Said:
 

Tim Sandstrom Said:
 And multi, why is it always a woman?  Takes two to tango. I figure it is a 50/50 split. 

Again I'm lacking evidence here, just a hunch, but I suspect the majority of abortions don't take place with a responsible male holding the female's hand helping her through the decision they made together.  Ill take a guess that the parents of the soon to be mother's have a lot more to do with these types of decisions than the father of the unborn.

1:  If a dude decides to split and the woman wants the baby, she is going to have the baby and that dude is going to be in a world of hurt with childcare costs, the court, etc.  If there is one thing our system does pretty well it is finding dead beats.  Sure, many exceptions I'm sure but to escape the system you are going to flat out have to change names, socials, etc.

2:  It always cracks me up.  So what you are telling me is the man has no right to this child?  The woman gets to make the decision to kill his child all on her own?

You think a man should have a right to make a women go through a pregnancy?

What kind of friggin question is that?  If I was one of multi's fraction of a percent where everything was taken carefully into consideration and my roll in the hay resulted in a pregnancy you're damn right I get to be part of the decision.

Seriously, what kind of question was that?  Judging by past comments you lean to the left so it does make sense so I guess nevermind.  Only sexist when it matters to favor your opinion...


 

 

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Plainsman Said:
Abortion is the symptom of no religion.  Some laugh about religion, but it's our moral compass.  Without it what makes any murder wrong?   Just because it is???  That don't hold water.  Remember the old cliche from the 60's "if it feels good do it"?   Maybe that should stand up in court for gay paedophiles.  Your honor we like to bend over little boys because it feels good.  If there is no God then anything is ok.   Who are you to say that a murderer should go to jail.  Who are you to say that a paedophile has no right to sex with a four year old.  Who are you to say it's wrong for me to break into your home steal your money, have sex with your daughter, shoot your wife, and stab you?  If it isn't sin what's wrong with it?   Just because you think it's wrong doesn't mean anything.  Just because we have laws doesn't mean anything.  What makes it all wrong?

Even athiests would agree.  I laugh at it because maybe I would hope they didn't have some set of morals.  Then those that weren't aborted would get murdered after being born.  Hence....no athiests.


 

 

Kirsch's Outdoor Products | Fargo, ND | 701-261-9017 Garmin GPS Hunting Maps
Liebel's Guide Service | Williston, ND | 701-770-6746 liebelsguideservice.com
Jig-em-Up Guide Service | Grand Forks, ND | 701-739-9198 jig-em-up-guide-service.com

 

 
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multi-species-angler Said:
 didn't Tim just tell me all sins are forgiven? So by religious rules even Hitler and his good morals has a place in heaven?  If you need a religion to keep you from killing people I would suggest seeking psychiatric help as well, just in case you ever lose a little bit of that faith.

Let me rephrase.  God gives you final judgement.

But what in the hell are you talking about?


 

 

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Liebel's Guide Service | Williston, ND | 701-770-6746 liebelsguideservice.com
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multi-species-angler Said:
 didn't Tim just tell me all sins are forgiven? So by religious rules even Hitler and his good morals has a place in heaven?  If you need a religion to keep you from killing people I would suggest seeking psychiatric help as well, just in case you ever lose a little bit of that faith.

LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!

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Im only one man
GET SOME!!!!!

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 plainsmen said without religion there is no morals, I just don't think my morals should come from bronze age stories

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Tim Sandstrom Said:

multi-species-angler Said:
 

Tim Sandstrom Said:
 And multi, why is it always a woman?  Takes two to tango. I figure it is a 50/50 split. 

Again I'm lacking evidence here, just a hunch, but I suspect the majority of abortions don't take place with a responsible male holding the female's hand helping her through the decision they made together.  Ill take a guess that the parents of the soon to be mother's have a lot more to do with these types of decisions than the father of the unborn.

1:  If a dude decides to split and the woman wants the baby, she is going to have the baby and that dude is going to be in a world of hurt with childcare costs, the court, etc.  If there is one thing our system does pretty well it is finding dead beats.  Sure, many exceptions I'm sure but to escape the system you are going to flat out have to change names, socials, etc.

2:  It always cracks me up.  So what you are telling me is the man has no right to this child?  The woman gets to make the decision to kill his child all on her own?

No, I'm saying the men in these situations don't usually exercise their right.

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The founding fathers have to be rolling in their graves with the abortions, the 47 percenters, and the anti-gun pro big govt fluzies running rampant throughout the country.  Can't even kill a damn grizzly in the mountains...  ugh...  and people are scared of pike.  hahahahha oh well at least the NDGF shut off doe hunting after the population was gone.  mehhhhhhhhhhhhh!

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For fu__'s sake, think about what everyone is arguing over.  The majority of you are mad at people that could somehow think to have their baby aborted and are attacking the method at which these "children" are murdered.  Is this not the same argument of people attacking guns and high cap mags have?  They are attacking the method by which their children were murdered, i.e. your gun and its' ability to hold a lot of ammo.  The exact same argument, and most of you want to be on both sides of the line. 

Maniacs with mental health issues and/or a troubled past should not be able to have the ability of obtaining materials to cause damage, damage that any normal person could avoid through common sense and reason. 

Normal people without the means to care for a child should not be able to have a child.  This is usually prevented by people with common sense and reason.

Now, in a perfect world, do both of these hold true ALL of the time?  No, but in either case, people with common sense and reason should still, at all times, have the right to choose. 


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DirtyMike Said:
For fu__'s sake, think about what everyone is arguing over.  The majority of you are mad at people that could somehow think to have their baby aborted and are attacking the method at which these "children" are murdered.  Is this not the same argument of people attacking guns and high cap mags have?  They are attacking the method by which their children were murdered, i.e. your gun and its' ability to hold a lot of ammo.  The exact same argument, and most of you want to be on both sides of the line. 

Maniacs with mental health issues and/or a troubled past should not be able to have the ability of obtaining materials to cause damage, damage that any normal person could avoid through common sense and reason. 

Normal people without the means to care for a child should not be able to have a child.  This is usually prevented by people with common sense and reason.

Now, in a perfect world, do both of these hold true ALL of the time?  No, but in either case, people with common sense and reason should still, at all times, have the right to choose. 

Yes it seems a lot of us middle aged guys like to point fingers and dish out rules from our lucky pedestals. This is definetely one of those subjects most have strong opinions and emotions on, and I am extremely thankful that abortion is one of those bridges in my life I've never had to face or cross, so I'm not going to be the one to decide for others where any lines are drawn on this issue

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It's actually kind of foolish to argue about this topic because we as the people don't have a say in this from a legal standpoint anyway. 

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Fact is we all have different beliefs and our country was founded on this principle.  Some believe "human life" begins at conception.  Others believe birth or at a later stage when the fetus can actually live on it's own.  I see it as one of those areas where you have to look at how you were raised and believe that way.  But I'm not going to force my view on others who believe differently.  They have to live with their choices just as we do with ours.

All I can say is that if you are going to force those who believe otherwise to have children they do not want, then you better also support paying the taxes and other costs associated with the public having to care for them.  They go hand in hand.  And yes, we all know people should act more responsible.  But that's a pipe dream and you need to live in the real world and realize that isn't going to happen. 

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didn't Tim just tell me all sins are forgiven? So by religious rules even Hitler and his good morals has a place in heaven?

Yes, but it requires repentance.  I don't agree that Hitler had good morals.  Some perhaps.  Even the most vicious people have one or two good things, and even the best have a few faults.  I have a lot of faults.  You may have noticed some.

I would say that if Hitler was on his knees asking for forgiveness as he died I'm going to see him in heaven.  It's not up to your or I  to say "go to he!!".  It's not up  to me to tell someone who kills their own child to pass judgement.  It's only up to humans to admonish one another because we care about one another.

It's actually kind of foolish to argue about this topic because we as the people don't have a say in this from a legal standpoint anyway.

Oh, we certainly do have a say.  We the people are guilty of making it legal.  We the people can make it illegal.  In a democracy it's we the people.  However a democracy will only be successful as long as 51% of the people are good people. 

So we talk about what is good and what is bad.  My only point above is if you don't believe in God what makes something good or bad in your sight?  Not anyone specific so don't feel offended.  My question is for everyone. 

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Plainsman Said:

didn't Tim just tell me all sins are forgiven? So by religious rules even Hitler and his good morals has a place in heaven?

Yes, but it requires repentance.  I don't agree that Hitler had good morals.  Some perhaps.  Even the most vicious people have one or two good things, and even the best have a few faults.  I have a lot of faults.  You may have noticed some.

I would say that if Hitler was on his knees asking for forgiveness as he died I'm going to see him in heaven.  It's not up to your or I  to say "go to he!!".  It's not up  to me to tell someone who kills their own child to pass judgement.  It's only up to humans to admonish one another because we care about one another.

It's actually kind of foolish to argue about this topic because we as the people don't have a say in this from a legal standpoint anyway.

Oh, we certainly do have a say.  We the people are guilty of making it legal.  We the people can make it illegal.  In a democracy it's we the people.  However a democracy will only be successful as long as 51% of the people are good people. 

So we talk about what is good and what is bad.  My only point above is if you don't believe in God what makes something good or bad in your sight?  Not anyone specific so don't feel offended.  My question is for everyone. 

I was being sarcastic when refering to hitlers morals.

I don't believe in god...what keeps me from going on a blood thirsty rape & murder fest by the light of the full moon?

thousands of priests and clergy  believe in god, what keeps them from molesting little boys?.....oh wait it doesn't!  hahaha.

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I was being sarcastic when refering to hitlers morals.

Good.  I just was not sure.  If your ok with abortion I thought -------

I don't believe in god...what keeps me from going on a blood thirsty rape & murder fest by the light of the full moon?

Yes, that is my question.  You don't believe in God so what keeps you from killing?

thousands of priests and clergy believe in god, what keeps them from molesting little boys?.....oh wait it doesn't! hahaha.

That tells me you don't grasp Christianity at all.  You may say you do, but I guarantee you do not.  You see it doesn't keep priests from molesting little boys because even priests are sinners.  We Christians are no better than others.  We try to be, but we fail.  When we do fail we acknowledge to God that we have failed and ask for forgiveness.  I fail every day.  All I deserve is death and hell, but the cross is my way out of the punishment I deserve.  I don't debate you because I dislike you, I debate you because I do like you.

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Plainsman Said:

I was being sarcastic when refering to hitlers morals.

Good.  I just was not sure.  If your ok with abortion I thought -------

I don't believe in god...what keeps me from going on a blood thirsty rape & murder fest by the light of the full moon?

Yes, that is my question.  You don't believe in God so what keeps you from killing?

thousands of priests and clergy believe in god, what keeps them from molesting little boys?.....oh wait it doesn't! hahaha.

That tells me you don't grasp Christianity at all.  You may say you do, but I guarantee you do not.  You see it doesn't keep priests from molesting little boys because even priests are sinners.  We Christians are no better than others.  We try to be, but we fail.  When we do fail we acknowledge to God that we have failed and ask for forgiveness.  I fail every day.  All I deserve is death and hell, but the cross is my way out of the punishment I deserve.  I don't debate you because I dislike you, I debate you because I do like you.

I don't think anyone is OK with abortion.

well you see on the nights of the full moon my wife chains me up in the basement before I turn.

so molestation & murder is ok as long as I repent

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multi-species-angler Said:

Plainsman Said:

didn't Tim just tell me all sins are forgiven? So by religious rules even Hitler and his good morals has a place in heaven?

Yes, but it requires repentance.  I don't agree that Hitler had good morals.  Some perhaps.  Even the most vicious people have one or two good things, and even the best have a few faults.  I have a lot of faults.  You may have noticed some.

I would say that if Hitler was on his knees asking for forgiveness as he died I'm going to see him in heaven.  It's not up to your or I  to say "go to he!!".  It's not up  to me to tell someone who kills their own child to pass judgement.  It's only up to humans to admonish one another because we care about one another.

It's actually kind of foolish to argue about this topic because we as the people don't have a say in this from a legal standpoint anyway.

Oh, we certainly do have a say.  We the people are guilty of making it legal.  We the people can make it illegal.  In a democracy it's we the people.  However a democracy will only be successful as long as 51% of the people are good people. 

So we talk about what is good and what is bad.  My only point above is if you don't believe in God what makes something good or bad in your sight?  Not anyone specific so don't feel offended.  My question is for everyone. 

I was being sarcastic when refering to hitlers morals.

I don't believe in god...what keeps me from going on a blood thirsty rape & murder fest by the light of the full moon?

thousands of priests and clergy  believe in god, what keeps them from molesting little boys?.....oh wait it doesn't!  hahaha.

fishing

cant drink all day unless you start in the morning.
Im only one man
GET SOME!!!!!

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BringingTheRain Said:

gst Said:

BringingTheRain Said:

Pickeral Tamer Said:
And archaic.

Enslow Said:
Abortion should make our society look very disturbing down the road when this time in history is studied in the history books.

Some day long long from now most people will shake there heads that humans were so religious for so long.

Or wish they had been more religious!   Or shake their heads we were such a nonbeliving society.

I wonder how many people on their death bed regret being TOO "religious" versus more "religious".

Don;t make assumptions.


ahahaha

I really feel bad for some of you on here. Why would an atheist or their family want his/her funeral to be held at a church, which is where a typical funeral takes place? Why would they want a funeral at all? What would be said?

Do you guys seriously believe in nothing but "science"? You've got it all figured out and don't need any spiritual guidance? Your morals just came out of thin air and were made up? Your soul isn't a unique gift that makes you who YOU are, and not like anybody else? Man oh man...



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DirtyMike Said:
For fu__'s sake, think about what everyone is arguing over.  The majority of you are mad at people that could somehow think to have their baby aborted and are attacking the method at which these "children" are murdered.  Is this not the same argument of people attacking guns and high cap mags have?  They are attacking the method by which their children were murdered, i.e. your gun and its' ability to hold a lot of ammo.  The exact same argument, and most of you want to be on both sides of the line. 

Maniacs with mental health issues and/or a troubled past should not be able to have the ability of obtaining materials to cause damage, damage that any normal person could avoid through common sense and reason. 

Normal people without the means to care for a child should not be able to have a child.  This is usually prevented by people with common sense and reason.

Now, in a perfect world, do both of these hold true ALL of the time?  No, but in either case, people with common sense and reason should still, at all times, have the right to choose. 

Nice.  Who is gonna determine who does not have the "means" to care for a child?  Federal beaurocrat? 

"The only enemy of guns is rust and politicians."

"The best defense against usurpatory government is an assertive citizenry."

William F. Buckley, Jr.
"Unarmed helplessness is for sheep and the French."  Ted Nugent

"The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it."
 -Thomas Jefferson

The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.
-Thomas Jefferson

 

 

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Joined: 11/28/05

Perhaps one thing we can all agree on is the fact that this country has seen it's better days and seems to be continuing a downward spiral at a very rapid pace both morally and economically.

Think about many of the things that have attributed to this decline and I think it is easy to link them back to what Plainsman noted, and that is the weakening importance or removal of God from our government and our homes.  Divorce rates are off the charts.  Interesting fact that I learned was that the divorce rate for people who live together before marriage is astronomically higher than that of people who wait until they are married.  Interestingly enough I lived that one as well.  So now we have millions of children being raised in broken homes by a single parent who has to do the work of two parents, and the children suffer the consequences.  Things like divorce, abortion, premarital sex, are all taboo in a religious society, so why not support their abolishment so we can still look at ourselves in the mirror and think we aren't so bad.  Maybe we can negotiate are way into heaven, if we believe there is a God, and he will buy into our own rationalizations for committing sin?  Those of you who don't believe in God still have the ability to differentiate between right and wrong, only without the thought of consequences after death.

What absolutely amazes me is that for some reason we believe we are so much more intelligent than the people who founded this country 200+ years ago.  I mean, this country is a baby compared to the rest of the countries in the world, and these moral issues have been around since man has been around.  So this group of guys gets together to form a country after a revolution against tyranny, and they put together a constitution based on the failures and successes of other countries.  In their infinite wisdom, they chose to make God a major factor in this creation.  Do you not think they did this because of historic examples of societies where God was not important?    

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