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Plainsman Said:
Abortion is the symptom of no religion.  Some laugh about religion, but it's our moral compass.  Without it what makes any murder wrong?   Just because it is???  That don't hold water.  Remember the old cliche from the 60's "if it feels good do it"?   Maybe that should stand up in court for gay paedophiles.  Your honor we like to bend over little boys because it feels good.  If there is no God then anything is ok.   Who are you to say that a murderer should go to jail.  Who are you to say that a paedophile has no right to sex with a four year old.  Who are you to say it's wrong for me to break into your home steal your money, have sex with your daughter, shoot your wife, and stab you?  If it isn't sin what's wrong with it?   Just because you think it's wrong doesn't mean anything.  Just because we have laws doesn't mean anything.  What makes it all wrong?

No. The simple answer, nature. It's every animal species best interest to try and survive and continue on the species. Humans are good to other people because it is what benefits the species the most.

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According to Web MD, rape is the reason for 13,000 of 1.3 million annual abortions, or 1% of the total.

An assumption must be made that a portion of these were misrepresented by the women, however, for arguments sake we will leave it be and say that it is 1%.

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BringingTheRain Said:

passiton Said:
Perhaps one thing we can all agree on is the fact that this country has seen it's better days and seems to be continuing a downward spiral at a very rapid pace both morally and economically.

Think about many of the things that have attributed to this decline and I think it is easy to link them back to what Plainsman noted, and that is the weakening importance or removal of God from our government and our homes.  Divorce rates are off the charts.  Interesting fact that I learned was that the divorce rate for people who live together before marriage is astronomically higher than that of people who wait until they are married.  Interestingly enough I lived that one as well.  So now we have millions of children being raised in broken homes by a single parent who has to do the work of two parents, and the children suffer the consequences.  Things like divorce, abortion, premarital sex, are all taboo in a religious society, so why not support their abolishment so we can still look at ourselves in the mirror and think we aren't so bad.  Maybe we can negotiate are way into heaven, if we believe there is a God, and he will buy into our own rationalizations for committing sin?  Those of you who don't believe in God still have the ability to differentiate between right and wrong, only without the thought of consequences after death.

What absolutely amazes me is that for some reason we believe we are so much more intelligent than the people who founded this country 200+ years ago.  I mean, this country is a baby compared to the rest of the countries in the world, and these moral issues have been around since man has been around.  So this group of guys gets together to form a country after a revolution against tyranny, and they put together a constitution based on the failures and successes of other countries.  In their infinite wisdom, they chose to make God a major factor in this creation.  Do you not think they did this because of historic examples of societies where God was not important?    

That is in fact false. This country was founded secular.

Secular meaning that the country wasn't founded on one single religion and that people would be able to choose and worship how they wanted, but also knowing that although there are many different religions, there is only one God, and in such would be recognized.

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 well be damned the the 99% we must act in interest off the 1%

Hunt Hard and NEVER GIVE UP

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How do you people not understand this:

It isn't the job of the government, in the United State of America, to legislate the morality of abortion. They legally don't have the power to do so, and as evidence we have Supreme Court rulings. It's a personal decision in this country until the constitution is amended or until the SCOTUS is all conservative, plain and simple.



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 Freedom of religion for the masses, since the founding fathers were overwhelming Deists, aka something made the universe and hasn't touched it since. Deism will always work with science if you don't understand it since you're all pretty much hardcore Christian.

passiton Said:

BringingTheRain Said:

passiton Said:
Perhaps one thing we can all agree on is the fact that this country has seen it's better days and seems to be continuing a downward spiral at a very rapid pace both morally and economically.

Think about many of the things that have attributed to this decline and I think it is easy to link them back to what Plainsman noted, and that is the weakening importance or removal of God from our government and our homes.  Divorce rates are off the charts.  Interesting fact that I learned was that the divorce rate for people who live together before marriage is astronomically higher than that of people who wait until they are married.  Interestingly enough I lived that one as well.  So now we have millions of children being raised in broken homes by a single parent who has to do the work of two parents, and the children suffer the consequences.  Things like divorce, abortion, premarital sex, are all taboo in a religious society, so why not support their abolishment so we can still look at ourselves in the mirror and think we aren't so bad.  Maybe we can negotiate are way into heaven, if we believe there is a God, and he will buy into our own rationalizations for committing sin?  Those of you who don't believe in God still have the ability to differentiate between right and wrong, only without the thought of consequences after death.

What absolutely amazes me is that for some reason we believe we are so much more intelligent than the people who founded this country 200+ years ago.  I mean, this country is a baby compared to the rest of the countries in the world, and these moral issues have been around since man has been around.  So this group of guys gets together to form a country after a revolution against tyranny, and they put together a constitution based on the failures and successes of other countries.  In their infinite wisdom, they chose to make God a major factor in this creation.  Do you not think they did this because of historic examples of societies where God was not important?    

That is in fact false. This country was founded secular.

Secular meaning that the country wasn't founded on one single religion and that people would be able to choose and worship how they wanted, but also knowing that although there are many different religions, there is only one God, and in such would be recognized.



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Kraken Said:
How do you people not understand this:

It isn't the job of the government, in the United State of America, to legislate the morality of abortion. They legally don't have the power to do so, and as evidence we have Supreme Court rulings. It's a personal decision in this country until the constitution is amended or until the SCOTUS is all conservative, plain and simple.

exactly. its a choice/freedom like i stated before. i never said it wasnt a human. just stating that its a choice. chill out people. im not for abortion but i aint against it either. i guess if that makes me a sick bastard so be it. im not gonna lose sleep over it.

cant drink all day unless you start in the morning.
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GET SOME!!!!!

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passiton Said:

BringingTheRain Said:

passiton Said:
Perhaps one thing we can all agree on is the fact that this country has seen it's better days and seems to be continuing a downward spiral at a very rapid pace both morally and economically.

Think about many of the things that have attributed to this decline and I think it is easy to link them back to what Plainsman noted, and that is the weakening importance or removal of God from our government and our homes.  Divorce rates are off the charts.  Interesting fact that I learned was that the divorce rate for people who live together before marriage is astronomically higher than that of people who wait until they are married.  Interestingly enough I lived that one as well.  So now we have millions of children being raised in broken homes by a single parent who has to do the work of two parents, and the children suffer the consequences.  Things like divorce, abortion, premarital sex, are all taboo in a religious society, so why not support their abolishment so we can still look at ourselves in the mirror and think we aren't so bad.  Maybe we can negotiate are way into heaven, if we believe there is a God, and he will buy into our own rationalizations for committing sin?  Those of you who don't believe in God still have the ability to differentiate between right and wrong, only without the thought of consequences after death.

What absolutely amazes me is that for some reason we believe we are so much more intelligent than the people who founded this country 200+ years ago.  I mean, this country is a baby compared to the rest of the countries in the world, and these moral issues have been around since man has been around.  So this group of guys gets together to form a country after a revolution against tyranny, and they put together a constitution based on the failures and successes of other countries.  In their infinite wisdom, they chose to make God a major factor in this creation.  Do you not think they did this because of historic examples of societies where God was not important?    

That is in fact false. This country was founded secular.

Secular meaning that the country wasn't founded on one single religion and that people would be able to choose and worship how they wanted, but also knowing that although there are many different religions, there is only one God, and in such would be recognized.

Founded secular as in religion plays no part in the US Constitution.

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I'm still having trouble finding better morals associated with religion.

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The thing with abortion, banning it isn't going to stop it from happening. Kind of like gun violence.

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Sorry I don't have time to read everything today.  I do want to make a couple of more comments.

so molestation & murder is ok as long as I repent

No, they are not ok.  Christians would say they are a sin.  They would ask God's forgiveness, and if sincere be forgiven.  I can not tell you if some situation can not be forgiven and which ones can for certain.  That's out of my hands and beyond my understanding.
For those who point out the terrible things Christians have done all I can say is we have a long history.  Every race, every religion has done some bad things.  The difference between Christians and other religions is you must do something to appease the false God's while ours died for us.  Even in Israel where they turned from their God and worshiped Baal they threw their living first born into fires as a sacrifice for good crops.
Some say it's a matter of choice.  OK, then don't tax me to pay for some immoral woman's abortion.  If my money pays for it your making me an accomplice to murder.  If she pays for it on her own, then she is going to hell alone without me along for the ride. 
Now someone will ask me "can't she repent".  Yes, she can and be forgiven.  However, if that's her plan from the beginning I don't know.  I wouldn't bet my soul on it, because I doubt God likes someone working him anymore than you or I do.  Like they say it's beyond my pay grade.  Lots of things are beyond my pay grade.

Multi species I am still interested in where your morals come from.  I'm certain your a good person, but where did your parents get those morals they tought you.  Without some basis anything is ok. 

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BTR, you are a pile.

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Multi species I am still interested in where your morals come from. I'm certain your a good person, but where did your parents get those morals they tought you. Without some basis anything is ok.

It makes me feel good to do good, I have absolutely zero fear of any sort of a supernatural form of punishment because I have no belief in it what so ever, being familiar with real consequenses (like prison) also helps.  Where do the good people of Sweden get their morals, in a country with an overwhelming majority of atheists?

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wow threads like this really bring out the name calling.

 

 "I get what you're saying:  Like a sausage replica featuring a Polander holding a sacred illumination device." 

 

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plainsman, can you explain how the godless countries of the world rank where they do?

www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-human-beast/201107/why-atheism-will-replace-religion-new-evidence

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 Since about 20-40 percent of pregnancies end up in miscarriages,   why does god abort so many babies?

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Kraken Said:
How do you people not understand this:

It isn't the job of the government, in the United State of America, to legislate the morality of abortion. They legally don't have the power to do so, and as evidence we have Supreme Court rulings. It's a personal decision in this country until the constitution is amended or until the SCOTUS is all conservative, plain and simple.

I think you are the one missing the point.  We are saying that human life begins at conception, which has been scientifically proven, and as such, that human life is not less significant than that of one out of the womb and therefore, should be legally protected the same.  Very simple concept.  But if you hide behind the cowardly delusion that if you can't see it, or touch it then it doesn't exist, then I can see where you have a problem.

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Sweden never used to be so athiest. They were pretty religious when their ancestors came to the US. Every society in this world has been based on religion. Athiests come from an ancestry of religion at some point in the past. Religions taught us morals a long time ago whether the present athiests wanna believe it or not. 

multi-species-angler Said:

Multi species I am still interested in where your morals come from. I'm certain your a good person, but where did your parents get those morals they tought you. Without some basis anything is ok.

It makes me feel good to do good, I have absolutely zero fear of any sort of a supernatural form of punishment because I have no belief in it what so ever, being familiar with real consequenses (like prison) also helps.  Where do the good people of Sweden get their morals, in a country with an overwhelming majority of atheists?

-Team Flightstoppers ND

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God doesnt control our lives, we have free will.............. 

Candiru Said:
 Since about 20-40 percent of pregnancies end up in miscarriages,   why does god abort so many babies?

-Team Flightstoppers ND

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 Wow this is a great to see such convection on a topic like this, considering all we really care about is hunting and fishing.  There is a movie out called 'October Baby' it's about a failed abortion attempt. The movie is not based totally  on religion but brings out some of  the effects of abortion. I know there is now way  for any of us to win or lose this debate here. I like most of you knew that before we posted. No matter where you stand, try to watch this movie and make sure you watch the credits.

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The thing with murder, banning it isn't going to stop it from happening.

Your argument treads no water unless you think we should make all murders legal? 

BringingTheRain Said:
The thing with abortion, banning it isn't going to stop it from happening. Kind of like gun violence.

-Team Flightstoppers ND

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I don't get how all you knuckle heads say its about choice. How hard is it to figure out that the living being should be afforded the chance to live.

Hunt Hard and NEVER GIVE UP

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BringingTheRain Said:
The thing with abortion, banning it isn't going to stop it from happening. Kind of like gun violence.

Good argument.

Let's say that a gunman/woman went around targeting pregnant woman and shot them in the midsection killing their babies, but the women's lives were saved.  Say his defense was that he only intended on terminating the unborn child, to prevent over-population, and never had any intention of killing the women.  What would a jury or court convict this gunman/woman for?  Say these women had every intention of carrying these babies to term.  

How do the pro-choice people argue in support of this, since he didn't commit murder in their eyes, just shot some women. 

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must only be assault with a deadly weapon.........cuz there was no intent to murder right? and know murders were committted right?

Hunt Hard and NEVER GIVE UP

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 It seems so contradictory to me when men who are ready to impose the death sentence for stealing something such as stealing an ice auger, ready to shoot any one that comes on their property, want to nuke the middle east, show very little empathy or compassion for others, and tell us they want government out of our lives as much as possible make a complete about face on this issue.   I am not talking about everyone but it seems as though there are plenty of them.   

In my opinion it has to do with the connection of this issue to sex and the groupthink that goes along with being a believer.    

If the pro-lifers were serious about cutting the numbers of abortions out there they would be the biggest advocates for making contraceptives and information as available as possible.   Instead most of what we hear is "just say no".    

The phoniness also comes through when it seems as though they could care less once the child is born.

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multi-species-angler Said:
ccr.sagepub.com/content/early/2011/05/08/1069397111402465.abstract

Dude, we get it, you are either too smart, too wealthy, or too healthy to believe in God.

My best friend in town is also a non-believer.  It doesn't keep me from being his friend because he is a better person than many people I know who claim to be Christian.

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 ran across this on u tube,   abortion survivor   Gianna Jesson inspirational video  this is the young lady the movie is based on

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Candiru Said:
 It seems so contradictory to me when men who are ready to impose the death sentence for stealing something such as stealing an ice auger, ready to shoot any one that comes on their property, want to nuke the middle east, show very little empathy or compassion for others, and tell us they want government out of our lives as much as possible make a complete about face on this issue.   I am not talking about everyone but it seems as though there are plenty of them.   

In my opinion it has to do with the connection of this issue to sex and the groupthink that goes along with being a believer.    

If the pro-lifers were serious about cutting the numbers of abortions out there they would be the biggest advocates for making contraceptives and information as available as possible.   Instead most of what we hear is "just say no".    

The phoniness also comes through when it seems as though they could care less once the child is born.

Hey did I ever say that contraception was a bad idea??????

Hunt Hard and NEVER GIVE UP

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The phoniness also comes through when it seems as though they could care less once the child is born.

What on earth gives you that opinion?   I can't comprehend what gave you such an idea.

Passiton have you noticed that when a pregnant woman is killed the killer is charged with a double homicide.

Have any of you noticed how excited scientist got when they found a meteor at the Antarctic with a single cell in it and they say it's from Mars?  They were excited because they see it as life.  Why is it a million cells on earth isn't life?  I'm confused.

It makes me feel good to do good,

I believe you multispecies, but how do you know what your doing is good.   Maybe I don't like it.  Maybe it's actually bad.  Who's to say?  What are the standards that say what you do is good?  What are the standards for bad?  Where did these ideas come from?  Maybe those priests that molested little boys thought they were doing good.  Evidently you and I don't think so, but maybe were wrong and the priests are right.  How do we know? 

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buckmaster81 Said:
I don't get how all you knuckle heads say its about choice. How hard is it to figure out that the living being should be afforded the chance to live.

to have an abortion or not to have one. both legal and those are 2 choices. really not that hard to figure out. whats right and wrong is up to the person making the choice. pretty simple stuff

cant drink all day unless you start in the morning.
Im only one man
GET SOME!!!!!

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I would like one single person who made the decision to abort a baby stand up and say that they are glad they made that decision and would do it again. 

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It makes me feel good to do good,

I believe you multispecies, but how do you know what your doing is good. Maybe I don't like it. Maybe it's actually bad. Who's to say? What are the standards that say what you do is good? What are the standards for bad? Where did these ideas come from? Maybe those priests that molested little boys thought they were doing good. Evidently you and I don't think so, but maybe were wrong and the priests are right. How do we know?

well, if I help you fix your car when your stranded on the side of the road, you feel pretty good about it afterward as well I, so I'm pretty confident that is an example of doing good.  If I tell you that hair cut makes you look good you feel good and I do as well.  If you bang a 9 year old while he's in tears and emotionally and mentally scar him for life and make him second guess every authority figure in his life there after.... I would call that bad.  but what would I know, I'm just a godless freak doomed to Hades.

We can play the what if and maybe game all day long, but if you really need and get your moral dictation from religion and religion alone I suggest you don't miss any communions.

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Enslow Said:

I would like one single person who made the decision to abort a baby stand up and say that they are glad they made that decision and would do it again. 

I don't think such a person exists.

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Muliti - so how much hate mail and threats have you recieved via pm since this thread started?

 

 "I get what you're saying:  Like a sausage replica featuring a Polander holding a sacred illumination device." 

 

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 George Carlin on abortion:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w15OS2PdCKo


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Wags86 Said:
Muliti - so how much hate mail and threats have you recieved via pm since this thread started?

from who....the morally superior? surprisingly none yet, give it time.

I'm still blown away that so many can't understand how I control my urges to rape and murder everything in sight since I don't believe in god(s) and therefore have no morals.

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beminoid31 Said:

buckmaster81 Said:
I don't get how all you knuckle heads say its about choice. How hard is it to figure out that the living being should be afforded the chance to live.

to have an abortion or not to have one. both legal and those are 2 choices. really not that hard to figure out. whats right and wrong is up to the person making the choice. pretty simple stuff

And the other living being in the equation has no rights????

Hunt Hard and NEVER GIVE UP

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multi-species-angler Said:

Wags86 Said:
Muliti - so how much hate mail and threats have you recieved via pm since this thread started?

from who....the morally superior? surprisingly none yet, give it time.

I'm still blown away that so many can't understand how I control my urges to rape and murder everything in sight since I don't believe in god(s) and therefore have no morals.

multi-species-angler Said:


It makes me feel good to do good,

I believe you multispecies, but how do you know what your doing is good. Maybe I don't like it. Maybe it's actually bad. Who's to say? What are the standards that say what you do is good? What are the standards for bad? Where did these ideas come from? Maybe those priests that molested little boys thought they were doing good. Evidently you and I don't think so, but maybe were wrong and the priests are right. How do we know?

well, if I help you fix your car when your stranded on the side of the road, you feel pretty good about it afterward as well I, so I'm pretty confident that is an example of doing good.  If I tell you that hair cut makes you look good you feel good and I do as well.  If you bang a 9 year old while he's in tears and emotionally and mentally scar him for life and make him second guess every authority figure in his life there after.... I would call that bad.  but what would I know, I'm just a godless freak doomed to Hades.

We can play the what if and maybe game all day long, but if you really need and get your moral dictation from religion and religion alone I suggest you don't miss any communions.

I agree with you about those things multi.  I think we would agree on most things that are either good or bad.   I'm simply asking you what is the basis for your standards.  If there is no God what makes something good or bad?   Is it simply emotion.  Some people don't give a rats behind about my feelings or yours.  There are those out there that would shoot us both, but don't.  I'll bet a couple think that would be a GOOD idea.  Me anyway.
Without some basis who are you or I to say something is good or bad?  Something tells us molesting that nine year old boy is bad.   I have a source, but I'm interested in your source.  I'm not just trying to be difficult I seriously want to know.

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Funny how the people that claim they don't believe in God are always the first to bring him into the discussion. I don't think you need to be Christian to think that killing babies is wrong. 

What is shocking is there are people on here that have kids that are OK with abortion. Seeing a babies heart beat inside the mothers womb is proof enough you are killing a living human being. No different than walking up to a person on the street and ending their life. 

 "Play it Mr.Toot"

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Multi, were you raised Catholic?

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passiton Said:

BringingTheRain Said:
The thing with abortion, banning it isn't going to stop it from happening. Kind of like gun violence.

Good argument.

Let's say that a gunman/woman went around targeting pregnant woman and shot them in the midsection killing their babies, but the women's lives were saved.  Say his defense was that he only intended on terminating the unborn child, to prevent over-population, and never had any intention of killing the women.  What would a jury or court convict this gunman/woman for?  Say these women had every intention of carrying these babies to term.  

How do the pro-choice people argue in support of this, since he didn't commit murder in their eyes, just shot some women. 

What?

fear_no_fish Said:
The thing with murder, banning it isn't going to stop it from happening.

Your argument treads no water unless you think we should make all murders legal? 

BringingTheRain Said:
The thing with abortion, banning it isn't going to stop it from happening. Kind of like gun violence.

Hold all the water you need. Banning abortion isn't going to stop it. Banning murder doesn't stop it, Banning gun violence won't stop it, banning drugs wont stop it, etc etc.

fear_no_fish Said:
God doesnt control our lives, we have free will.............. 

Candiru Said:
 Since about 20-40 percent of pregnancies end up in miscarriages,   why does god abort so many babies?

God is ultimately responsible for everything. No way around that.

Multi species I am still interested in where your morals come from.  I'm certain your a good person, but where did your parents get those morals they tought you.  Without some basis anything is ok. 

You must have missed my post. Human nature. In order for the species to continue, we need to get along. Wether you like it or not, there is another answer to where humans get morals.

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  Its real easy to sit back on the side lines and talk about how bad a Abortion is. Its the lady body and she can do anything she wants with it. Its legal and she is doing nothing wrong in her eyes. So who are you to say what she can do.

Now I dont want to here all your reasons why she shouldnt do it. Its not your body and you have no say.

Relive your memories take a kid hunting and fishing

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 This thread is an abortion...  

 

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Db
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 I will have to admit I am surprise by the ease of some on here to be so indifferent about life.
Also the ease of dismissing some kind of faith in ones life.
I would of thought it would have been stronger by those who visit this site.
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 Maybe I am in the minority here but.  When i and the women I was with did not want a baby we made sure there was no chance for a baby.
When it was decided to have a baby between the two of us I then had a say in the future of that baby.
I did not go out and make a baby with just anyone and then walk away.
Life is the good choice as I assume all here are thankful for their life.
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I agree with you about those things multi.  I think we would agree on most things that are either good or bad.   I'm simply asking you what is the basis for your standards.  If there is no God what makes something good or bad?   Is it simply emotion.  Some people don't give a rats behind about my feelings or yours.  There are those out there that would shoot us both, but don't.  I'll bet a couple think that would be a GOOD idea.  Me anyway.
Without some basis who are you or I to say something is good or bad?  Something tells us molesting that nine year old boy is bad.   I have a source, but I'm interested in your source.  I'm not just trying to be difficult I seriously want to know.

History shows that a "non-believer" like myself isn't the one who should be answering questions about where his morals come from.  I've never had an urge to fly a plane into a building, rape a 9 year old boy, or harm other people because of a difference of mythological & spiritual opinion.  To be honest I am really offended when religious people make statements like "without religion there are no morals"

If I was forced to choose a religious source of moral teaching, it certainly wouldn't be from any of the christian or muslim based faiths.

below are some faces of the most vile and morally devoid people on the planet that are completely incapable of compassion or determining simple differences from right or wrong.

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 MSA.... Lance Armstrong.... bad example. 

Is it impious to weigh goose music and art in the same scales? I think not, because the true hunter is merely a noncreative artist. Who painted the first picture on a bone in the caves of France? A hunter. Who alone in our modern life so thrills to the sight of living beauty that he will endure hunger and thirst and cold to feed his eye upon it? The hunter. Who wrote the great hunter's poem about the sheer wonder of the wind, the hail, and the snow, the stars, the lightnings, and the clouds, the lion, the deer, and the wild goat, the raven, the hawk, and the eagle, and above all the eulogy to the horse? Job, one of the great dramatic artists of all time. Poets sing and hunters scale the mountains primarily for one and the same reason--the thrill of beauty. Critics write and hunters outwit their game primarily for one and the same reason--to reduce that beauty to possession. The differences are largely matters of degree, consciousness, and that sly arbiter of the classification of human activities, language. If, then, we can live without goose music, we may as well do away with stars, or sunsets, or Iliads. But the point is we would be fools to do away with any of them. 

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You must have missed my post. Human nature. In order for the species to continue, we need to get along. Wether you like it or not, there is another answer to where humans get morals.

That tells why we need morals not where we get them.

History shows that a "non-believer" like myself isn't the one who should be answering questions about where his morals come from. I've never had an urge to fly a plane into a building, rape a 9 year old boy, or harm other people because of a difference of mythological & spiritual opinion. To be honest I am really offended when religious people make statements like "without religion there are no morals"

Hey I have been polite and simply asked where you get yours.  I have told you I would expect your a kind and decent person.  Just tell me what you think the basis is for you to know good and evil. 
I'm sure you have never had the urge to do those terrible things you listed.  No one thinks you would.  I'm wondering why?  I'm just curious where your ideas about good or bad come from.  Would you please consider telling me??????

below are some faces of the most vile and morally devoid people on the planet that are completely incapable of compassion or determining simple differences from right or wrong.
 

OK, I'm not to sharp tonight.  What's the point?

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Hey I have been polite and simply asked where you get yours.  I have told you I would expect your a kind and decent person.  Just tell me what you think the basis is for you to know good and evil. 
I'm sure you have never had the urge to do those terrible things you listed.  No one thinks you would.  I'm wondering why?  I'm just curious where your ideas about good or bad come from.  Would you please consider telling me??????
 

Its not such a simple answer, all social animals have forms of morality just to survive.  from wolves to crocodiles, and these animals have no awareness of a god or religion.  I can tell you trying to imagine some of the more horrible moral violations cause me emotional distress, but that has nothing to do with an angel on one shoulder and a devil on the other, and many of the minor moral violations I learn through first hand experiences.  for a simple example, being made fun of made me feel bad, therefore I learned not to make fun of other people, not because a priest taught it to me. Consequences also prevent me from doing "bad" things.  Even though I want to walk into a bank and take a million dollars, I know I risk spending lots of time in jail.  Maybe I practice good morality because I don't want to be remembered as a bad person, especially since I believe my memory is all that carries on after I die.  I take more comfort that people would remember me as a good person instead of a mean asshole. 

As I said before, I have zero fear of punishment or judgement from a supernatural being in the afterlife, not because I think I'm a good person, but because I don't believe it exists....at all. It's not a choice, you can't be afraid of the boogey man if you don't think he's real.  So fear of that kind of judgement definetly does not motivate me to do good, and the lack of belief in such things definetly does not motivate me to do bad.

Why does it have to be religion thats responsible for making me pull over and help someone with a flat tire?

OK, I'm not to sharp tonight.  What's the point?
 

They're all non-believers, many of which are known for great morals and intelligence.  I tried looking for examples of atheists known for having bad or no morals, but couldn't find any, so I'm wondering where this common religious assumption comes from, as well as the assumption that the progressional loss of religion in our country is responsible for the bad things that happen in it.  I've looked at countries that are almost 90% atheist and they seem to be doing pretty good, definetly not the zombie infested apocalyptic hells many of you seem to portray such countries as.

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