54,559,615

Pages

498 posts / 0 new
Last post
BringingTheRain's picture
BringingTheRain
Offline
Joined: 1/5/10

Plainsman Said:
Abortion is the symptom of no religion.  Some laugh about religion, but it's our moral compass.  Without it what makes any murder wrong?   Just because it is???  That don't hold water.  Remember the old cliche from the 60's "if it feels good do it"?   Maybe that should stand up in court for gay paedophiles.  Your honor we like to bend over little boys because it feels good.  If there is no God then anything is ok.   Who are you to say that a murderer should go to jail.  Who are you to say that a paedophile has no right to sex with a four year old.  Who are you to say it's wrong for me to break into your home steal your money, have sex with your daughter, shoot your wife, and stab you?  If it isn't sin what's wrong with it?   Just because you think it's wrong doesn't mean anything.  Just because we have laws doesn't mean anything.  What makes it all wrong?

No. The simple answer, nature. It's every animal species best interest to try and survive and continue on the species. Humans are good to other people because it is what benefits the species the most.

passiton's picture
passiton
Offline
GREENHORN
Joined: 11/28/05

According to Web MD, rape is the reason for 13,000 of 1.3 million annual abortions, or 1% of the total.

An assumption must be made that a portion of these were misrepresented by the women, however, for arguments sake we will leave it be and say that it is 1%.

passiton's picture
passiton
Offline
GREENHORN
Joined: 11/28/05

BringingTheRain Said:

passiton Said:
Perhaps one thing we can all agree on is the fact that this country has seen it's better days and seems to be continuing a downward spiral at a very rapid pace both morally and economically.

Think about many of the things that have attributed to this decline and I think it is easy to link them back to what Plainsman noted, and that is the weakening importance or removal of God from our government and our homes.  Divorce rates are off the charts.  Interesting fact that I learned was that the divorce rate for people who live together before marriage is astronomically higher than that of people who wait until they are married.  Interestingly enough I lived that one as well.  So now we have millions of children being raised in broken homes by a single parent who has to do the work of two parents, and the children suffer the consequences.  Things like divorce, abortion, premarital sex, are all taboo in a religious society, so why not support their abolishment so we can still look at ourselves in the mirror and think we aren't so bad.  Maybe we can negotiate are way into heaven, if we believe there is a God, and he will buy into our own rationalizations for committing sin?  Those of you who don't believe in God still have the ability to differentiate between right and wrong, only without the thought of consequences after death.

What absolutely amazes me is that for some reason we believe we are so much more intelligent than the people who founded this country 200+ years ago.  I mean, this country is a baby compared to the rest of the countries in the world, and these moral issues have been around since man has been around.  So this group of guys gets together to form a country after a revolution against tyranny, and they put together a constitution based on the failures and successes of other countries.  In their infinite wisdom, they chose to make God a major factor in this creation.  Do you not think they did this because of historic examples of societies where God was not important?    

That is in fact false. This country was founded secular.

Secular meaning that the country wasn't founded on one single religion and that people would be able to choose and worship how they wanted, but also knowing that although there are many different religions, there is only one God, and in such would be recognized.

buckmaster81's picture
buckmaster81
Offline
GREENHORN
Joined: 2/9/03

 well be damned the the 99% we must act in interest off the 1%

Hunt Hard and NEVER GIVE UP

Kraken's picture
Kraken
Offline
Joined: 4/5/12

How do you people not understand this:

It isn't the job of the government, in the United State of America, to legislate the morality of abortion. They legally don't have the power to do so, and as evidence we have Supreme Court rulings. It's a personal decision in this country until the constitution is amended or until the SCOTUS is all conservative, plain and simple.



Kraken's picture
Kraken
Offline
Joined: 4/5/12

 Freedom of religion for the masses, since the founding fathers were overwhelming Deists, aka something made the universe and hasn't touched it since. Deism will always work with science if you don't understand it since you're all pretty much hardcore Christian.

passiton Said:

BringingTheRain Said:

passiton Said:
Perhaps one thing we can all agree on is the fact that this country has seen it's better days and seems to be continuing a downward spiral at a very rapid pace both morally and economically.

Think about many of the things that have attributed to this decline and I think it is easy to link them back to what Plainsman noted, and that is the weakening importance or removal of God from our government and our homes.  Divorce rates are off the charts.  Interesting fact that I learned was that the divorce rate for people who live together before marriage is astronomically higher than that of people who wait until they are married.  Interestingly enough I lived that one as well.  So now we have millions of children being raised in broken homes by a single parent who has to do the work of two parents, and the children suffer the consequences.  Things like divorce, abortion, premarital sex, are all taboo in a religious society, so why not support their abolishment so we can still look at ourselves in the mirror and think we aren't so bad.  Maybe we can negotiate are way into heaven, if we believe there is a God, and he will buy into our own rationalizations for committing sin?  Those of you who don't believe in God still have the ability to differentiate between right and wrong, only without the thought of consequences after death.

What absolutely amazes me is that for some reason we believe we are so much more intelligent than the people who founded this country 200+ years ago.  I mean, this country is a baby compared to the rest of the countries in the world, and these moral issues have been around since man has been around.  So this group of guys gets together to form a country after a revolution against tyranny, and they put together a constitution based on the failures and successes of other countries.  In their infinite wisdom, they chose to make God a major factor in this creation.  Do you not think they did this because of historic examples of societies where God was not important?    

That is in fact false. This country was founded secular.

Secular meaning that the country wasn't founded on one single religion and that people would be able to choose and worship how they wanted, but also knowing that although there are many different religions, there is only one God, and in such would be recognized.



beminoid31's picture
beminoid31
Offline
Joined: 12/26/08

Kraken Said:
How do you people not understand this:

It isn't the job of the government, in the United State of America, to legislate the morality of abortion. They legally don't have the power to do so, and as evidence we have Supreme Court rulings. It's a personal decision in this country until the constitution is amended or until the SCOTUS is all conservative, plain and simple.

exactly. its a choice/freedom like i stated before. i never said it wasnt a human. just stating that its a choice. chill out people. im not for abortion but i aint against it either. i guess if that makes me a sick bastard so be it. im not gonna lose sleep over it.

cant drink all day unless you start in the morning.
Im only one man
GET SOME!!!!!

BringingTheRain's picture
BringingTheRain
Offline
Joined: 1/5/10

passiton Said:

BringingTheRain Said:

passiton Said:
Perhaps one thing we can all agree on is the fact that this country has seen it's better days and seems to be continuing a downward spiral at a very rapid pace both morally and economically.

Think about many of the things that have attributed to this decline and I think it is easy to link them back to what Plainsman noted, and that is the weakening importance or removal of God from our government and our homes.  Divorce rates are off the charts.  Interesting fact that I learned was that the divorce rate for people who live together before marriage is astronomically higher than that of people who wait until they are married.  Interestingly enough I lived that one as well.  So now we have millions of children being raised in broken homes by a single parent who has to do the work of two parents, and the children suffer the consequences.  Things like divorce, abortion, premarital sex, are all taboo in a religious society, so why not support their abolishment so we can still look at ourselves in the mirror and think we aren't so bad.  Maybe we can negotiate are way into heaven, if we believe there is a God, and he will buy into our own rationalizations for committing sin?  Those of you who don't believe in God still have the ability to differentiate between right and wrong, only without the thought of consequences after death.

What absolutely amazes me is that for some reason we believe we are so much more intelligent than the people who founded this country 200+ years ago.  I mean, this country is a baby compared to the rest of the countries in the world, and these moral issues have been around since man has been around.  So this group of guys gets together to form a country after a revolution against tyranny, and they put together a constitution based on the failures and successes of other countries.  In their infinite wisdom, they chose to make God a major factor in this creation.  Do you not think they did this because of historic examples of societies where God was not important?    

That is in fact false. This country was founded secular.

Secular meaning that the country wasn't founded on one single religion and that people would be able to choose and worship how they wanted, but also knowing that although there are many different religions, there is only one God, and in such would be recognized.

Founded secular as in religion plays no part in the US Constitution.

multi-species-angler's picture
multi-species-angler
Offline
GREENHORN
Joined: 4/26/09

I'm still having trouble finding better morals associated with religion.

BringingTheRain's picture
BringingTheRain
Offline
Joined: 1/5/10

The thing with abortion, banning it isn't going to stop it from happening. Kind of like gun violence.

Plainsman's picture
Plainsman
Offline
AMATEUR
Joined: 6/19/03

Sorry I don't have time to read everything today.  I do want to make a couple of more comments.

so molestation & murder is ok as long as I repent

No, they are not ok.  Christians would say they are a sin.  They would ask God's forgiveness, and if sincere be forgiven.  I can not tell you if some situation can not be forgiven and which ones can for certain.  That's out of my hands and beyond my understanding.
For those who point out the terrible things Christians have done all I can say is we have a long history.  Every race, every religion has done some bad things.  The difference between Christians and other religions is you must do something to appease the false God's while ours died for us.  Even in Israel where they turned from their God and worshiped Baal they threw their living first born into fires as a sacrifice for good crops.
Some say it's a matter of choice.  OK, then don't tax me to pay for some immoral woman's abortion.  If my money pays for it your making me an accomplice to murder.  If she pays for it on her own, then she is going to hell alone without me along for the ride. 
Now someone will ask me "can't she repent".  Yes, she can and be forgiven.  However, if that's her plan from the beginning I don't know.  I wouldn't bet my soul on it, because I doubt God likes someone working him anymore than you or I do.  Like they say it's beyond my pay grade.  Lots of things are beyond my pay grade.

Multi species I am still interested in where your morals come from.  I'm certain your a good person, but where did your parents get those morals they tought you.  Without some basis anything is ok. 

Meatball's picture
Meatball
Offline
Joined: 3/8/12

BTR, you are a pile.

multi-species-angler's picture
multi-species-angler
Offline
GREENHORN
Joined: 4/26/09

Multi species I am still interested in where your morals come from. I'm certain your a good person, but where did your parents get those morals they tought you. Without some basis anything is ok.

It makes me feel good to do good, I have absolutely zero fear of any sort of a supernatural form of punishment because I have no belief in it what so ever, being familiar with real consequenses (like prison) also helps.  Where do the good people of Sweden get their morals, in a country with an overwhelming majority of atheists?

Wags86's picture
Wags86
Offline
Joined: 12/14/10

wow threads like this really bring out the name calling.

 

 "I get what you're saying:  Like a sausage replica featuring a Polander holding a sacred illumination device." 

 

multi-species-angler's picture
multi-species-angler
Offline
GREENHORN
Joined: 4/26/09

plainsman, can you explain how the godless countries of the world rank where they do?

www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-human-beast/201107/why-atheism-will-replace-religion-new-evidence

Candiru's picture
Candiru
Offline
GREENHORN
Joined: 8/2/06

 Since about 20-40 percent of pregnancies end up in miscarriages,   why does god abort so many babies?

passiton's picture
passiton
Offline
GREENHORN
Joined: 11/28/05

Kraken Said:
How do you people not understand this:

It isn't the job of the government, in the United State of America, to legislate the morality of abortion. They legally don't have the power to do so, and as evidence we have Supreme Court rulings. It's a personal decision in this country until the constitution is amended or until the SCOTUS is all conservative, plain and simple.

I think you are the one missing the point.  We are saying that human life begins at conception, which has been scientifically proven, and as such, that human life is not less significant than that of one out of the womb and therefore, should be legally protected the same.  Very simple concept.  But if you hide behind the cowardly delusion that if you can't see it, or touch it then it doesn't exist, then I can see where you have a problem.

fear_no_fish's picture
fear_no_fish
Offline
GREENHORN
Joined: 7/11/06

Sweden never used to be so athiest. They were pretty religious when their ancestors came to the US. Every society in this world has been based on religion. Athiests come from an ancestry of religion at some point in the past. Religions taught us morals a long time ago whether the present athiests wanna believe it or not. 

multi-species-angler Said:

Multi species I am still interested in where your morals come from. I'm certain your a good person, but where did your parents get those morals they tought you. Without some basis anything is ok.

It makes me feel good to do good, I have absolutely zero fear of any sort of a supernatural form of punishment because I have no belief in it what so ever, being familiar with real consequenses (like prison) also helps.  Where do the good people of Sweden get their morals, in a country with an overwhelming majority of atheists?

-Team Flightstoppers ND

fear_no_fish's picture
fear_no_fish
Offline
GREENHORN
Joined: 7/11/06

God doesnt control our lives, we have free will.............. 

Candiru Said:
 Since about 20-40 percent of pregnancies end up in miscarriages,   why does god abort so many babies?

-Team Flightstoppers ND

havingfun's picture
havingfun
Offline
Joined: 2/21/02

 Wow this is a great to see such convection on a topic like this, considering all we really care about is hunting and fishing.  There is a movie out called 'October Baby' it's about a failed abortion attempt. The movie is not based totally  on religion but brings out some of  the effects of abortion. I know there is now way  for any of us to win or lose this debate here. I like most of you knew that before we posted. No matter where you stand, try to watch this movie and make sure you watch the credits.

fear_no_fish's picture
fear_no_fish
Offline
GREENHORN
Joined: 7/11/06

The thing with murder, banning it isn't going to stop it from happening.

Your argument treads no water unless you think we should make all murders legal? 

BringingTheRain Said:
The thing with abortion, banning it isn't going to stop it from happening. Kind of like gun violence.

-Team Flightstoppers ND

buckmaster81's picture
buckmaster81
Offline
GREENHORN
Joined: 2/9/03

I don't get how all you knuckle heads say its about choice. How hard is it to figure out that the living being should be afforded the chance to live.

Hunt Hard and NEVER GIVE UP

passiton's picture
passiton
Offline
GREENHORN
Joined: 11/28/05

BringingTheRain Said:
The thing with abortion, banning it isn't going to stop it from happening. Kind of like gun violence.

Good argument.

Let's say that a gunman/woman went around targeting pregnant woman and shot them in the midsection killing their babies, but the women's lives were saved.  Say his defense was that he only intended on terminating the unborn child, to prevent over-population, and never had any intention of killing the women.  What would a jury or court convict this gunman/woman for?  Say these women had every intention of carrying these babies to term.  

How do the pro-choice people argue in support of this, since he didn't commit murder in their eyes, just shot some women. 

buckmaster81's picture
buckmaster81
Offline
GREENHORN
Joined: 2/9/03

must only be assault with a deadly weapon.........cuz there was no intent to murder right? and know murders were committted right?

Hunt Hard and NEVER GIVE UP

multi-species-angler's picture
multi-species-angler
Offline
GREENHORN
Joined: 4/26/09
Candiru's picture
Candiru
Offline
GREENHORN
Joined: 8/2/06

 It seems so contradictory to me when men who are ready to impose the death sentence for stealing something such as stealing an ice auger, ready to shoot any one that comes on their property, want to nuke the middle east, show very little empathy or compassion for others, and tell us they want government out of our lives as much as possible make a complete about face on this issue.   I am not talking about everyone but it seems as though there are plenty of them.   

In my opinion it has to do with the connection of this issue to sex and the groupthink that goes along with being a believer.    

If the pro-lifers were serious about cutting the numbers of abortions out there they would be the biggest advocates for making contraceptives and information as available as possible.   Instead most of what we hear is "just say no".    

The phoniness also comes through when it seems as though they could care less once the child is born.

passiton's picture
passiton
Offline
GREENHORN
Joined: 11/28/05

multi-species-angler Said:
ccr.sagepub.com/content/early/2011/05/08/1069397111402465.abstract

Dude, we get it, you are either too smart, too wealthy, or too healthy to believe in God.

My best friend in town is also a non-believer.  It doesn't keep me from being his friend because he is a better person than many people I know who claim to be Christian.

havingfun's picture
havingfun
Offline
Joined: 2/21/02

 ran across this on u tube,   abortion survivor   Gianna Jesson inspirational video  this is the young lady the movie is based on

buckmaster81's picture
buckmaster81
Offline
GREENHORN
Joined: 2/9/03

Candiru Said:
 It seems so contradictory to me when men who are ready to impose the death sentence for stealing something such as stealing an ice auger, ready to shoot any one that comes on their property, want to nuke the middle east, show very little empathy or compassion for others, and tell us they want government out of our lives as much as possible make a complete about face on this issue.   I am not talking about everyone but it seems as though there are plenty of them.   

In my opinion it has to do with the connection of this issue to sex and the groupthink that goes along with being a believer.    

If the pro-lifers were serious about cutting the numbers of abortions out there they would be the biggest advocates for making contraceptives and information as available as possible.   Instead most of what we hear is "just say no".    

The phoniness also comes through when it seems as though they could care less once the child is born.

Hey did I ever say that contraception was a bad idea??????

Hunt Hard and NEVER GIVE UP

Plainsman's picture
Plainsman
Offline
AMATEUR
Joined: 6/19/03
The phoniness also comes through when it seems as though they could care less once the child is born.

What on earth gives you that opinion?   I can't comprehend what gave you such an idea.

Passiton have you noticed that when a pregnant woman is killed the killer is charged with a double homicide.

Have any of you noticed how excited scientist got when they found a meteor at the Antarctic with a single cell in it and they say it's from Mars?  They were excited because they see it as life.  Why is it a million cells on earth isn't life?  I'm confused.

It makes me feel good to do good,

I believe you multispecies, but how do you know what your doing is good.   Maybe I don't like it.  Maybe it's actually bad.  Who's to say?  What are the standards that say what you do is good?  What are the standards for bad?  Where did these ideas come from?  Maybe those priests that molested little boys thought they were doing good.  Evidently you and I don't think so, but maybe were wrong and the priests are right.  How do we know? 

Pages