54,559,615

Pages

498 posts / 0 new
Last post
multi-species-angler's picture
multi-species-angler
Offline
GREENHORN
Joined: 4/26/09

 grand canyon first plainsman

passiton's picture
passiton
Offline
GREENHORN
Joined: 11/28/05

Multi, the pastor at St. Leo's in Minot is an incredibly knowledgeable and inspiring individual.  Just say the word and I can set up a meeting for you with him and maybe you can get on the road to healing these deep wounds you have with your faith.

espringers's picture
espringers
Offline
GREENHORN
Joined: 7/25/07

 i don't know where to begin.  but, i will start here.  i forgot to respond to plainsmans remark above that it is well settled that any thing of chance above 1 in 50,000 requires an outside influence.... really?  do you realize how many games of chance are won in this country alone every week with odds greater than that?  

and i know you are getting at the complexity of a cell and the odds of it just appearing out of thin air being 1 in a guberzillion... but, that is not how it works... each individual step leading up to that complex cell had its own odds of 1 in X.  over time the odds of each of those steps occurring is 100%.  ever done any studying of quantum mechanics?  the odds of some things are astronomical... but, mathematically... even the most astronomical of odds are 100% guaranteed to occurr at some point in time... without outside influence.  

Born to hunt and fish... Forced to work!

Shweedel's picture
Shweedel
Offline
GREENHORN
Joined: 12/21/11

 By the way BringingtheRain, God didn't create evil. We did, we have free will. Either to do good or bad. He doesn't control us like some master pupeteer of the world.

passiton's picture
passiton
Offline
GREENHORN
Joined: 11/28/05

Why are there still apes if we evolved from apes?  Why don't the intermediate stages between apes and homosapiens still exist, as apes do?  I'm just asking.

multi-species-angler's picture
multi-species-angler
Offline
GREENHORN
Joined: 4/26/09

Grand canyon first guys, there's lots of time for evolution.  I first need to know how I could have been so dumb for so long assuming it was carved by the colorado river for the last 5.5 million years.

Meatball's picture
Meatball
Offline
Joined: 3/8/12

In the beginning there was nothing, then nothing went around in circles, nothing then blew up. and whamo, on the one billionth day the grand canyon was formed.

Makes perfect sense.

multi-species-angler's picture
multi-species-angler
Offline
GREENHORN
Joined: 4/26/09

passiton Said:
Why are there still apes if we evolved from apes?  Why don't the intermediate stages between apes and homosapiens still exist, as apes do?  I'm just asking.

very soon passiton, and you might even understand.

multi-species-angler's picture
multi-species-angler
Offline
GREENHORN
Joined: 4/26/09
passiton Said:
Multi, the pastor at St. Leo's in Minot is an incredibly knowledgeable and inspiring individual.  Just say the word and I can set up a meeting for you with him and maybe you can get on the road to healing these deep wounds you have with your faith.

I was married at st leos, and as hard as it is to believe, theres no deep wounds, no scratches, no interesting stories, I'm just logical.

guywhofishes's picture
guywhofishes
Offline
GREENHORN
Joined: 5/4/07

espringers Said:
 i don't know where to begin.  but, i will start here.  i forgot to respond to plainsmans remark above that it is well settled that any thing of chance above 1 in 50,000 requires an outside influence.... really?  do you realize how many games of chance are won in this country alone every week with odds greater than that?  

and i know you are getting at the complexity of a cell and the odds of it just appearing out of thin air being 1 in a guberzillion... but, that is not how it works... each individual step leading up to that complex cell had its own odds of 1 in X.  over time the odds of each of those steps occurring is 100%.  ever done any studying of quantum mechanics?  the odds of some things are astronomical... but, mathematically... even the most astronomical of odds are 100% guaranteed to occurr at some point in time... without outside influence.  

Yes, I have taken (and passed by the grace of God) quantum mechanics.

Can you explain how quantum mechanics (yes, a statistical-natured discipline) that is used to describe the probabilities of electrons and particles being in certain spaces and/or spin states, yadda yadda has bearing on an evolution discussion?

You're applying microscopic scale physical phenomenon behavior to the statistical probabilities of complex cells and organisms forming? I'm confused.

Evolutionists always claim that "hey, we're not claiming it all happened at once, it took lots and lots of tiny changes". And yet not one person/lab/genius or team of geniuses on earth has created even the simplest proteins, membranes, etc. necessary for life. You know... the kind of EVIDENCE that multi screams for before he "signs on" to any scientific claims. 

Sure, there's a few obscure simple materials made and everyone hails those few baby steps (1,000,000,000,000 of the way there) as evidence solid evidence that the entire theory is solid - but it remains a million step bit-by-bit theory that you all hold as gospel - seemingly BY FAITH and BY FAITH ALONE. Gee - sounds familiar.

The big problem with that "hey, it took millions of years to finally get to the point where it was truly alive and self-replicating" explanation is that those parts have to lie around, intact in their semi-functional states, for thousands or millions of years!

Ummm... anybody else see a problem with that? Let's say a miraculous one in a million step were achieved... how does that progress stay achieved for the next thousand years until the next one in a million event comes along?

Wait, that's right, even though the chances are in a gurzillion, it's still POSSIBLE - so there you go, let's accept it.

I guess talking snakes really don't seem that far-fetched anymore now that I have been enlightened about "statistics". Heck, anything's possible if a gurzillion to one odds are acceptable as "evidence".

 

Tacoman's picture
Tacoman
Offline
Joined: 2/13/06

Candiru Said:
 

Enslow Said:
IF u guys get struck by lightning in January don't come crawling to me!  :)

Actually, any of the following getting struck by lightning out of a clear blue sky or sodomized to death by a stray bull would cause me to believe in god again:

Benny Hinn, Robert Tilton, Michael Murdock, Paul and Jan Crouch, Fred Felps, Pat Robertson, Creflo Dollar, The Pope, John Hagee, Bryan Fischer, Charles Worley, Jack Schaap         I could probably come up with a few more minor ones as well.  

These people have all either used their pulpits to get rich, abuse people sexually, or spread hatred.   Some of them do all 3.

If your god will not stop evil from going on in his name then what good is he?

 If you want to judge my beliefs based on people i have never met or associate with then you go right ahead.  I like catching fish and believe in God, what of it?

multi-species-angler's picture
multi-species-angler
Offline
GREENHORN
Joined: 4/26/09

 really, you guys are just gonna let me keep drinking the geology & erosion kool aid?

gst's picture
gst
Offline
GREENHORN
Joined: 3/12/09

multi-species-angler Said:

passiton Said:
Multi, the pastor at St. Leo's in Minot is an incredibly knowledgeable and inspiring individual.  Just say the word and I can set up a meeting for you with him and maybe you can get on the road to healing these deep wounds you have with your faith.

I was married at st leos, and as hard as it is to believe, theres no deep wounds, no scratches, no interesting stories, I'm just logical.

So then it is your merely your  "logical" nature that causes you to demean as you have so often on this site in the manner you do, someone elses faith or religion in general?

 Yeah right that is hard to beleive.

But if indeed that is true, it appears that you are simply a jackass.

 

guywhofishes's picture
guywhofishes
Offline
GREENHORN
Joined: 5/4/07

Shweedel Said:
 By the way BringingtheRain, God didn't create evil. We did, we have free will. Either to do good or bad. He doesn't control us like some master pupeteer of the world.

Here's my theory.

Darkness is simply the absence of light.
Cold is the absence of heat/energy.
A Vacuum is the absence of matter.

Nobody "makes" Darkness, Vacuums, or Cold - they are the absence of things that "are" or do exist.

So:
Evil is the absence of God's will for us. God didn't make it - it exists when we turn our backs on doing his will with our lives.

You're Welcome,
Mr. Deep Thoughts.

^^^^^ See that? That's pride. God doesn't like that. I just sinned cuz I'm a sad little sinning monkey - but God loves me anyway.

 

passiton's picture
passiton
Offline
GREENHORN
Joined: 11/28/05

multi-species-angler Said:

passiton Said:
Multi, the pastor at St. Leo's in Minot is an incredibly knowledgeable and inspiring individual.  Just say the word and I can set up a meeting for you with him and maybe you can get on the road to healing these deep wounds you have with your faith.

I was married at st leos, and as hard as it is to believe, theres no deep wounds, no scratches, no interesting stories, I'm just logical.

I guess I'm not surprised.  I think often times people with personal experience with the Catholic church can become its biggest opponents.  There are many teachings "rules" that just don't fit in with how many people want to live their lives.  Some people just quit practicing, while others feel the need to go to great lengths to tear it apart and support why they don't need it.  Either way, we will always welcome you back.  Don't have too much pride to close that door forever.  Man, it would really suck to go to all the effort of disproving something your entire life, just because you want to fish on Sundays or something, and then find out in the end it is very real.  Many people who are in your shoes suddenly turn to God in the last moments of life.  Seen it happen first hand.  Annointing of the sick and last rights, after a last confession if there is time, and whamo.  Funny how many turn their heads until it is about that time.  Not funny really, but sad and very unfortunate.

Anyway, I'm sure your convictions will hold true until your last breath, but if not, like I said, we will always welcome you back.

Candiru's picture
Candiru
Offline
GREENHORN
Joined: 8/2/06

 

Enslow Said:

Candiru Said:
 

Enslow Said:
IF u guys get struck by lightning in January don't come crawling to me!  :)

Actually, any of the following getting struck by lightning out of a clear blue sky or sodomized to death by a stray bull would cause me to believe in god again:

Benny Hinn, Robert Tilton, Michael Murdock, Paul and Jan Crouch, Fred Felps, Pat Robertson, Creflo Dollar, The Pope, John Hagee, Bryan Fischer, Charles Worley, Jack Schaap         I could probably come up with a few more minor ones as well.  

These people have all either used their pulpits to get rich, abuse people sexually, or spread hatred.   Some of them do all 3.

If your god will not stop evil from going on in his name then what good is he?

 If you want to judge my beliefs based on people i have never met or associate with then you go right ahead.  I like catching fish and believe in God, what of it?

I am not judging you, I am judging your god.   My personal experiences and observations lead me to believe either god does not exist or he does not care.  

Go ahead and believe whatever floats your boat and feel free to convince others that your beliefs are correct.   I do not have a problem till your beliefs are forced on me or others by gov't.


Candiru's picture
Candiru
Offline
GREENHORN
Joined: 8/2/06

I believe that every one of us would do everything we could to stop a child molester.   In this article god does nothing in spite of the prayers of a boy pleading for help, how does any kind of loving god turn down a boy like this?:

For evangelicals, God is a personal God, there with you in every moment. Josh worried and worried: what did He think of him? It was a gut anxiety, ever-present. He hoped, desperately, that God would help him or guide him somehow. Josh did what he had been taught to do when he didn’t know what to do: he prayed. He prayed constantly. But deliverance never came. He was 11, maybe 12. Josh found his mom’s handgun and placed the barrel into his mouth. This way, he thought, he’d get to be with his dad again. When he finally got up the nerve to pull the trigger, nothing happened. It wasn’t loaded. Josh took it as a sign. He didn’t try again ’til years later.

https://thislandpress.com/05/23/2012/grace-in-broken-arrow/?read=complete



Candiru's picture
Candiru
Offline
GREENHORN
Joined: 8/2/06

The creation argument rings hollow with me.   Even if you want to believe that some divine being created this world, you then have to make the leap to the bible being true.

espringers's picture
espringers
Offline
GREENHORN
Joined: 7/25/07

 guy... it was only in response to pms contention that anything greater than 1 in 50k requires an outside influence to occur.  i didn't mean to mix the two topics other than to explain that many things with much greater odds against them do and will occur if given enough time.  and quantum mechanics is the most striking example of this contention.  

at the risk of offending you (sorry in advance), its clear from your response you have trouble with statistics and probability.  first, the development of life took billions of years and not millions.  and secondly things with similar odds occur every day in this country alone.  why do you act like it takes a leap of faith to get there?  odds of being struck by lightning in any one day... 1 in 350,000,000.  in any one year.... bout 1 in 1,000,000.  odds of winning the powerball... 1 in roughly 175,000,000.  the examples are endless.... and these examples actually happen every day someplace in the world... it doesn't take weeks, or months or years or even eons... they occur every day!

maybe you and plainsman should get together and do a peer review of the theory of evolution and see how well it holds up.  or are you also of the contention that its all just a great big conspiracy perpetrated on the scientific community and the world as a whole since the days of ancient greece?

Born to hunt and fish... Forced to work!

gst's picture
gst
Offline
GREENHORN
Joined: 3/12/09

multi-species-angler Said:
 speaking of fairy tales, tell me the one about the talking snake.

Once upon a time in a land long, long ago and far, far away,  an evil wizard scientist lived in the laboratory in the desert. This wizard had a female pet snake that would never cease to nag the wizard about how messy his laboratory was and how tired she was of the collor in her cage and that he had food left in his beard. Nag,nag, nag. So the wizard mixed up a magic potion in his laboratory that made the female snake unable to talk. She was so sad she sat in the laboratory window and cried every day, One day a handsome young snake prince came slithering by and asked the beautiful princess snake why she was crying, she could not answer, the handsome snake prince said let down your tail and I will climb up and rescue you. The female snake did and the handsome prince snake climbed up and rescued here from the clutches of the evil wizard. The prince snake so enjoyed the silence of the female snake they were married and went to live in the snake kingdom. 

Soon  the other male snakes saw how happy the prince snake was with a female snake that did not nag and soon would not marry a female snake rather than having to listen to them nag. Soon all the female snakes were complaining and started their own TV show called The Veiw and the male snakes became so tired of listening to the 6 female snakes on The Veiw complain about the male snake, three of them decided to take their swords and go to the evil wizards laboratory and steal the magic potion to shut up the never ending chatter of the female snakes on The Veiw. They snuck past the giant ogre guarding the laboratory and stole the magic potion and slipped away and on the way home hatched a plan to silence all of the female snakes, so they decided to pour the magic potion in the only well in the middle of the snake kingdom. They were uable to see the flaw that all snakes drank out of the well because God had not given them the ability to reason with the brain they had as he had the human wizard. So before long as more and more snakes drank more and more snakes lost the ability to talk  untill there were no talking snakes left.

And that is why today snakes can not talk.

The end.

That ought to get you to sleep at nite eh multi? Except that part about God I suppose. Hopefully the mention of God does not give you nightmares about whatever happened to cause you to hate religion or faith so much.

gst's picture
gst
Offline
GREENHORN
Joined: 3/12/09

passiton Said:

multi-species-angler Said:

passiton Said:
Multi, the pastor at St. Leo's in Minot is an incredibly knowledgeable and inspiring individual.  Just say the word and I can set up a meeting for you with him and maybe you can get on the road to healing these deep wounds you have with your faith.

I was married at st leos, and as hard as it is to believe, theres no deep wounds, no scratches, no interesting stories, I'm just logical.

I guess I'm not surprised.  I think often times people with personal experience with the Catholic church can become its biggest opponents.  There are many teachings "rules" that just don't fit in with how many people want to live their lives.  Some people just quit practicing, while others feel the need to go to great lengths to tear it apart and support why they don't need it.  Either way, we will always welcome you back.  Don't have too much pride to close that door forever.  Man, it would really suck to go to all the effort of disproving something your entire life, just because you want to fish on Sundays or something, and then find out in the end it is very real.  Many people who are in your shoes suddenly turn to God in the last moments of life.  Seen it happen first hand.  Annointing of the sick and last rights, after a last confession if there is time, and whamo.  Funny how many turn their heads until it is about that time.  Not funny really, but sad and very unfortunate.

Anyway, I'm sure your convictions will hold true until your last breath, but if not, like I said, we will always welcome you back.

guywhofishes's picture
guywhofishes
Offline
GREENHORN
Joined: 5/4/07

espringers Said:
 guy... it was only in response to pms contention that anything greater than 1 in 50k requires an outside influence to occur.  i didn't mean to mix the two topics other than to explain that many things with much greater odds against them do and will occur if given enough time.  and quantum mechanics is the most striking example of this contention.  

at the risk of offending you (sorry in advance), its clear from your response you have trouble with statistics and probability.  first, the development of life took billions of years and not millions.  and secondly things with similar odds occur every day in this country alone.  why do you act like it takes a leap of faith to get there?  odds of being struck by lightning in any one day... 1 in 350,000,000.  in any one year.... bout 1 in 1,000,000.  odds of winning the powerball... 1 in roughly 175,000,000.  the examples are endless.... and these examples actually happen every day someplace in the world... it doesn't take weeks, or months or years or even eons... they occur every day!

maybe you and plainsman should get together and do a peer review of the theory of evolution and see how well it holds up.  or are you also of the contention that its all just a great big conspiracy perpetrated on the scientific community and the world as a whole since the days of ancient greece?

Boy - how can I argue with logic like that? People win Powerball against tremendous odds so, therefore, evolution theory is sound (absent the hard evidence your side is always screaming for). Basically anything can happen even under slim odds... therefore whatever theory you propose for YOUR argument is legitimate based on the chance it could happen. Um, OK.

But you didn't actually address my comments and weren't able to defend your position. You simply attacked me personally and told me I was ignorant rather than addressing the simple questions I posed. Meh.


 

gst's picture
gst
Offline
GREENHORN
Joined: 3/12/09

multi-species-angler Said:
 grand canyon first plainsman

How about we finish the alligators have morals claim first?

Perhaps you can get PETA to help you with your "evidence"!

espringers's picture
espringers
Offline
GREENHORN
Joined: 7/25/07

 guy, your argument was that it couldn't or wouldn't or was impossible to have happened cause the odds were too great.  i responded saying things happen all the time, every day in fact, in this country on this earth (yet alone this infinitely vast universe), with odds just as great or greater than each individual incremental step needed to get to the simplest of form of what we are discussing... the precursors of life... a self replicating chain of molecules.  how is that not responding to what you had written?  i knew you would get offended.  sorry again.  but, maybe you should be taking offense from the hundreds if not thousands of scientific processes and peer reviewed articles and mathematical formulations and rules that gave rise to my response and not me... i am just the delivery boy.  

Born to hunt and fish... Forced to work!

multi-species-angler's picture
multi-species-angler
Offline
GREENHORN
Joined: 4/26/09

The Mantis Said:
 That's funny,  I was expecting you to pull out some crap about carbon dating or at least come up with something.  You have nothing.  

Did you know they have carbon dated boots that our great grandpa would have worn at 10,000 years old?    I thought maybe you'd say something about the grand canyon being carved by  the colorado river over millions of years despite the fact that where the river enters the canyon is lower then where it exits the canyon(top of the canyon elevations not the bottom.)

Think for yourself instead of absorbing everything they  shove down your throat about dinosaurs and monkeys and fabricated fossil evidence.   Evolution is not science.  

I'm done.  

This is a hunting and fishing website,  and I get enough of your invalid argument from my liberal co-worker who voted for obama.

I'm going to go out on a limb here, judging by the recent intelligent responses and name calling, that some of you watched the short educational videos I posted about the formation of the grand canyon, and you either realized you had no contradicting evidence to support a different theory, or your own hypothesis about a different way it formed was rediculous and you felt ashamed to post it publicly.

Tacoman's picture
Tacoman
Offline
Joined: 2/13/06

I don't have to prove that god exists to believe.  Especially to people on FBO who think they know it all!  Especially people who enjoy the outdoors and all its unbelievable sights, sounds, and smells.  to be a hunter/fisherman and not even consider the possibility that there is a higher power means that you are quite obtuse.

multi-species-angler's picture
multi-species-angler
Offline
GREENHORN
Joined: 4/26/09

passiton Said:
Why are there still apes if we evolved from apes?  Why don't the intermediate stages between apes and homosapiens still exist, as apes do?  I'm just asking.

for the same reason you have a poodle and there are still wolves.  Some intermediate stages between species do still exist.  We did not turn from an ape ancestor to a homo sapiens in one day.  that ape ancestor may have had its population divide by migration or geography and one of those divided populations evolved independantly from the other until after so many generations it became a new specie. If you have trouble finding intermediate species or transitional fossils online I can post as many links as you want, but I somehow think you will still be confused and won't believe any of the evidence I present to you.

Tacoman's picture
Tacoman
Offline
Joined: 2/13/06

I like cheese too by the way.  the more evolved the cheese the better.  Horsager knows what im talking about!

Tacoman's picture
Tacoman
Offline
Joined: 2/13/06

If you go in front of mirror and look at yourself and say, "I used to be a primate", then you are a monkey.

Tacoman's picture
Tacoman
Offline
Joined: 2/13/06

I love lamp, I love lamp

Wags86's picture
Wags86
Offline
Joined: 12/14/10

what do you guys think these cool specimens evolved from?

 

 "I get what you're saying:  Like a sausage replica featuring a Polander holding a sacred illumination device." 

 

Shweedel's picture
Shweedel
Offline
GREENHORN
Joined: 12/21/11

Father Justin Waltz has a vast knowledge and can argue about this for days... All of his responses make sense to me.
muliti I seriously think you could benefit from talking to him, even if ya took one thing away from it.  

passiton Said:
Multi, the pastor at St. Leo's in Minot is an incredibly knowledgeable and inspiring individual.  Just say the word and I can set up a meeting for you with him and maybe you can get on the road to healing these deep wounds you have with your faith.
multi-species-angler's picture
multi-species-angler
Offline
GREENHORN
Joined: 4/26/09
Evolutionists always claim that "hey, we're not claiming it all happened at once, it took lots and lots of tiny changes". And yet not one person/lab/genius or team of geniuses on earth has created even the simplest proteins, membranes, etc. necessary for life. You know... the kind of EVIDENCE that multi screams for before he "signs on" to any scientific claims.

John Sutherland and his team of researchers at the university of manchester are well on their way of puting together what you're looking for.  this video is a few years old and they have come alot further since, but this video is entertaining and easy to understand.

Start watching at 15:30

multi-species-angler's picture
multi-species-angler
Offline
GREENHORN
Joined: 4/26/09

buckmaster81 Said:
 multi I don't think you should have to be a Christian to figure out that killing babies is wrong....

Please run a comb through this thread and show where I posted anything relating me to being pro choice.  I have been responding to the accusations that non-believers have no morals because morals come from religion.

multi-species-angler's picture
multi-species-angler
Offline
GREENHORN
Joined: 4/26/09

gst Said:
My apologies, hopefully you do not consider the bat thingy "evidence".

You certainly seem to dislike religion and faith. Have you ever answered why it is so important to you to prove others wrong in their beleifs regarding a faith in a higher power?

I do not dislike or hate any religion, faith, or gods....I just don't believe in them or that they exist.  Its statements like the ones below that I feel the need to drag out into public, point, laugh at, and supply overwhelming amounts of contradicting evidence against such hypothesis about our world, universe, and how it works to curb atempts of teaching this garbage in public schools.

That's funny, I was expecting you to pull out some crap about carbon dating or at least come up with something. You have nothing.

Did you know they have carbon dated boots that our great grandpa would have worn at 10,000 years old? I thought maybe you'd say something about the grand canyon being carved by the colorado river over millions of years despite the fact that where the river enters the canyon is lower then where it exits the canyon(top of the canyon elevations not the bottom.)

Think for yourself instead of absorbing everything they shove down your throat about dinosaurs and monkeys and fabricated fossil evidence. Evolution is not science.

ah yes, the fabricated fossil evidence that every country on every continent on planet earth is involved in fabricating.  every paleontologist, every geologist, etc etc are in on this scheme of fossil fabrication to plant them in the ground and make them look like they do to fit into the current fossil records we have today.

passiton's picture
passiton
Offline
GREENHORN
Joined: 11/28/05

multi-species-angler Said:

passiton Said:
Why are there still apes if we evolved from apes?  Why don't the intermediate stages between apes and homosapiens still exist, as apes do?  I'm just asking.

for the same reason you have a poodle and there are still wolves.  Some intermediate stages between species do still exist.  We did not turn from an ape ancestor to a homo sapiens in one day.  that ape ancestor may have had its population divide by migration or geography and one of those divided populations evolved independantly from the other until after so many generations it became a new specie. If you have trouble finding intermediate species or transitional fossils online I can post as many links as you want, but I somehow think you will still be confused and won't believe any of the evidence I present to you.

So a poodle is a more evolved and superior animal than a wolf?  Dang I have never given them little curly haired things the credit they deserve!  I'll just take your word for it.  I'm more than content believing in God and having faith.  I can't imagine the burden of having to search for an answer or proof about everything that will finally satisfy my intellect, or justify my beliefs or actions.

passiton's picture
passiton
Offline
GREENHORN
Joined: 11/28/05

Shweedel Said:
Father Justin Waltz has a vast knowledge and can argue about this for days... All of his responses make sense to me.
muliti I seriously think you could benefit from talking to him, even if ya took one thing away from it.  

passiton Said:
Multi, the pastor at St. Leo's in Minot is an incredibly knowledgeable and inspiring individual.  Just say the word and I can set up a meeting for you with him and maybe you can get on the road to healing these deep wounds you have with your faith.

They were nice thoughts, but in retrospect, Father Justin might be far too busy helping those of us who do believe with our struggles to spend time debating someone that doesn't want to believe.  But I just don't know.  Like I said, say the word and I will ask. 

Geosteerer's picture
Geosteerer
Offline
GREENHORN
Joined: 5/26/10

What is the point of this thread?  The believers are right and the non-believers are wrong.  Believers ask a question and no matter the answer the non- believer is, of course, wrong.  There are some that are trying to push their beliefs and seem suited to be going door to door.  There is also an amazing amount of un-Christian like behavior coming from some.  Regardless of ones belief there could be a little more respect shown here. 

Farnorth's picture
Farnorth
Offline
Joined: 5/23/02

Geosteerer Said:
What is the point of this thread?  The believers are right and the non-believers are wrong.  Believers ask a question and no matter the answer the non- believer is, of course, wrong.  There are some that are trying to push their beliefs and seem suited to be going door to door.  There is also an amazing amount of un-Christian like behavior coming from some.  Regardless of ones belief there could be a little more respect shown here. 

Excellent comment.  It's been fun reading.

There is no middle ground on the abortion issue that started this thread (especially for those who believe strongly).  My suggestion is to give it a rest.  Nobody is going to convince anybody that they are wrong.

FAITH is the belief in something for which there is no proof.  When it comes ot belief in a divine being, you either believe or you don't.  It's really that simple.

Passiton should NOT debate Evolution with MSA until he studies it.  Your question above referring to descending from Apes is clear evidence of that.  Don't take it personal, there are a lot of things I don't understand well enough to debate with somebody who does.  I'm not an expert on Evolution but I know enough about it to know you don't fully grasp the concept.

johnr's picture
johnr
Offline
GREENHORN
Joined: 2/18/04

Geosteerer Said:
What is the point of this thread?  The liberals are right and the non-liberals are wrong.  Liberals ask a question and no matter the answer the non- liberal is, of course, wrong.  There are some that are trying to push their beliefs and seem suited to be going door to door.  There is also an amazing amount of un-liberal like behavior coming from some.  Regardless of ones belief there could be a little more respect shown here. 

Hahaha...fixed it for you

You just explained What it is like talking to a liberal

Neat

multi-species-angler's picture
multi-species-angler
Offline
GREENHORN
Joined: 4/26/09

passiton Said:

So a poodle is a more evolved and superior animal than a wolf?  Dang I have never given them little curly haired things the credit they deserve!  I'll just take your word for it.  I'm more than content believing in God and having faith.  I can't imagine the burden of having to search for an answer or proof about everything that will finally satisfy my intellect, or justify my beliefs or actions.

Only Guy's poodle is more evolved and superior to a wolf.

Passiton you bring up and interesting point and a common misconception.  People often mistake the word evolution for a progression, when in reality most evolution just involves changes.

Take something like the dodo bird for example, slow, fat, flightless.  How did it get that way, possibly from a group of birds that once landed on an island with no predators and lots of food thousands or even a million years ago.  Well natural selection didn't eliminate the slower weaker birds allowing them to pass on slower weaker genes to their offspring and so on.   turns out some predators showed up on that island and made the dodo extinct very quickly.

Back to dogs, some may argue that dogs and wolves are the same species because their DNA is so similar.  First off, if you breed a poodle to another poodle you get a poodle, and if you breed a wolf to another wolf you get a wolf.  The only difference between all the varieties of dogs we have compared to the varieties of other animals is the selection of the traits to be passed on weren't selected by nature, they were selected by man.  Second, if you're going to use DNA similarities and mapping for dogs, please remember how close chimp and human DNA is  you can't use it in one arguement, then deny it in another.

You believe samples of DNA can be looked at to determine who your parents, great grand parents, uncles, cousins, and who your brothers and sisters are.  but don't believe those same processes that point to out our origins in central Africa a million years ago.  Once we migrated from central africa separating and being genetically secluded from eachother into different regions of earth we humans began to evolve.  Look at the pale skinned people of NW europe, the very dark people of australia, the polynesians, the people of india, china, and so on.  all of the different races of people today can be genetically trace right back to one group of people in central africa nearly a million years ago.

espringers's picture
espringers
Offline
GREENHORN
Joined: 7/25/07

Funny part is msa never said he was pro abortion. He took offense to the idea that without religion there would be no morals. Things snowballed like they always do when religion gets discussed. Another contention is the idea that faith or belief in science requires the same type of faith that religion does. But whatev... Ice house here I come.

Born to hunt and fish... Forced to work!

multi-species-angler's picture
multi-species-angler
Offline
GREENHORN
Joined: 4/26/09

Irreducible complexity...........as shown on wikipedia with sources

 

Irreducible complexity (IC) is an argument by proponents of intelligent design that certain biological systems are too complex to have evolved from simpler, or "less complete" predecessors, through natural selection acting upon a series of advantageous naturally occurring, chance mutations.[1]The argument is central to intelligent design, and is rejected by the scientific community at large,[2] which overwhelmingly regards intelligent design as pseudoscience.[3] Irreducible complexity is one of two main arguments used by intelligent design proponents, the other being specified complexity.[4]

Biochemistry professor Michael Behe, the originator of the term irreducible complexity, defines an irreducibly complex system as one "composed of several well-matched, interacting parts that contribute to the basic function, wherein the removal of any one of the parts causes the system to effectively cease functioning".[5] Evolutionary biologists have demonstrated how such systems could have evolved,[6][7] and describe Behe's claim as an argument from incredulity.[8]In the 2005 Kitzmiller v. Dover Area School District trial, Behe gave testimony on the subject of irreducible complexity. The court found that "Professor Behe's claim for irreducible complexity has been refuted in peer-reviewed research papers and has been rejected by the scientific community at large

full page here.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irreducible_complexity

Things like the creationism hypothesis have no evidence and are rejected by the global scientific community, even by the religious part of that scientific community.

not a disproval but why would an intelligent designer create whales or snakes with remnants of legs?  or lizards, fish, & snakes with the beginings of wings?

Someone mentioned earlier that fossils are fabricated to test your faith.  I have a hard time believing that the whole world is in on the most elaborate fabrication hoax of all time.

Many make the accusation that there are no transitional fossils.  WRONG, there are thousands with new ones being discovered every day, and there are even transitional species alive today.  a simple search online will keep you busy for days browsing through all the interesting species and where they fit in the fossil record.


multi-species-angler's picture
multi-species-angler
Offline
GREENHORN
Joined: 4/26/09

By definition of irreducible complexity, it would be impossible for a complex lizard to evolve wings from a simpler predecessor (a lizard without wings).  but here it is, genetically proven to have evolved from other agamids (the group of lizards it evolved from) it's DNA traces these neat little guys right back to the ancestral agamids they evolved from.  and there are even several species (over 30) of these with larger well developed wings to smaller less functional ones.

does this prove evolution yet?  of course not, this is simply one of millions of the puzzle pieces called evidence that fit together to give us a clearer picture of the theory of evolution.

new evidence is found daily and so far nothing overwhelming or comparable enough has been found that contradicts the current theory of evolution, just hypothesis lacking evidence. 

see definition of hypothesis  en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypothesis

passiton's picture
passiton
Offline
GREENHORN
Joined: 11/28/05

Dang it, now MSA has me thinking I'm a minority.  Why am I paying my own cell phone bill? 

I'm not entering a debate on evolution with anyone, not because I don't grasp the concept, but I just don't care about it.   

If you have a passion for something like this, and it directly contradicts religious beliefs, I guess you have to make a choice.   

passiton's picture
passiton
Offline
GREENHORN
Joined: 11/28/05

I'm sitting here wondering why it was necessary for my nuts to shrink so much over all these years!  That seems like regression instead of progression!!!  I'm getting more and more depressed the further this thread goes on.

multi-species-angler's picture
multi-species-angler
Offline
GREENHORN
Joined: 4/26/09

passiton Said:
Dang it, now MSA has me thinking I'm a minority.  Why am I paying my own cell phone bill? 

I'm not entering a debate on evolution with anyone, not because I don't grasp the concept, but I just don't care about it.   

If you have a passion for something like this, and it directly contradicts religious beliefs, I guess you have to make a choice.   

Cared enough to ask some questions like you wanted to understand it more.  now after a few very small examples you shrug your shoulders and say meh, don't care.

The catholic church has accepted evolution due to the overwhelming amounts of evidence it has presented.  They have also accepted the plausibility of life existing on other planets, probably due to the rapid rate we are discovering other planets.  I have respect for the catholic church for realizing they were centuries behind the times and adjusting some of their ways and teachings to adapt to todays world.  I think it also helps keep members around if you don't sound so 16th century.
.

Farnorth's picture
Farnorth
Offline
Joined: 5/23/02

passiton Said:
Dang it, now MSA has me thinking I'm a minority.  Why am I paying my own cell phone bill? 

I'm not entering a debate on evolution with anyone, not because I don't grasp the concept, but I just don't care about it.   

If you have a passion for something like this, and it directly contradicts religious beliefs, I guess you have to make a choice.   

If you ask a question about man descending from Apes, you clearly don't grasp the concept.  Just sayin.  I'll leave it at that.

mowerman's picture
mowerman
Offline
GREENHORN
Joined: 3/30/11

LMAO

passiton Said:

I'm sitting here wondering why it was necessary for my nuts to shrink so much over all these years!  That seems like regression instead of progression!!!  I'm getting more and more depressed the further this thread goes on.

Tacoman's picture
Tacoman
Offline
Joined: 2/13/06

I love it when people who aren't scientists claim to know so much about science because of the internet.  Everything on the internet has to be true doesn't it?  No matter what anyones stance is you can find a web page to contradict it and paste it as your own. 

Pages