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Tons and tons of people my age and younger are just not believing in God anymore.  Things are changing all over the world and not for the better.

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Plainsman Said:

I'd be more apt to take you more serious when talking about science and evolution but the fact that you didn't and maybe still don't understand the difference between a scientific law and scientific theory, just won't allow me to do so.

Oh, I absolutely understand it.  It means like the existence of God none of us can prove it.  So both take faith.  For me believing evolution would require more faith than believing in God.

I didn't bring up theory because my experience has been those who believe evolution get angry.  Most responses have been "I can't believe you reverted to that".  I don't understand why they say reverted to since it really is theory. 

What destroys evolution (in my mind) is the complexity of a single cell, and the way we are told evolution works.  Now if a genetic anomaly was not required to benefit the species and every genetic attribute was passed on I think you would get the chances down to (just an estimate) maybe one in a million.  Unlike a lottery ticket where a winner is guaranteed the evolutionary process falls within the realms of the chaos theory.  That gets us back to the statistic reality that things with chances greater than 1/50,000 do not happen without outside influence.  Pure chaos can only influence things under that threshold.

You must not remember the last few religion topics. You talked up evolution quite a bit, unfortunately you didn't actually understand what a scientific theory actually was. It's ok though, you'd be surprised how many people incorrectly believe that a theory becomes a law.

Sorry it's hard to keep up with this thread..

"spanking the monkey" as you put it, isn't  an embryo, nor a human.  It takes two to tango kind sir.
anyways, I'm not sure where we are even at in this conversation. But sperm cells are NOT a a fertilized eggs, so I not sure where you are going with that.

Im not sure how other Christian religions teach this, but the Catholc Churh believes in evolution, you can't say we haven't evolved.  Humans have developed over time, it's proven. But someone had to create it, who would that be? God.  
 

Don't take Mitt Romney's word on how Plan B actually works.

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Enslow Said:

I love it when people who aren't scientists claim to know so much about science because of the internet.  Everything on the internet has to be true doesn't it?  No matter what anyones stance is you can find a web page to contradict it and paste it as your own. 

  So you're saying the videos I posted are wrong.  OK, thats fine....how are they wrong? and do you have substantial evidence that contradicts the information, links, and videos I have posted.  90% of my recent posts are my own words, and if you investigate my school credentials it shows somewhere I have up to an 8th grade education on paper, but I read at a sophomore level.

I do apologize that the photo I posted of that draco species (flying lizard) wasn't my own, even though I kept and bred 3 of the rarer species for a number of years, I wasn't at home today to dig up my own photos I had.

claiming to know so much about science?  science is a word to describe a method used to help us figure things out and discover.  once you understand the scientific method, science isn't all that difficult if you apply it.

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Enslow Said:

Tons and tons of people my age and younger are just not believing in God anymore.  Things are changing all over the world and not for the better.

again, as I've stated before I'll suggest you look at countries with populations over 50% atheists.  They aren't the zombie libtard wastelands you imagine them to be.

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multi-species-angler Said:

gst Said:
My apologies, hopefully you do not consider the bat thingy "evidence".

You certainly seem to dislike religion and faith. Have you ever answered why it is so important to you to prove others wrong in their beleifs regarding a faith in a higher power?

I do not dislike or hate any religion, faith, or gods....I just don't believe in them or that they exist.  Its statements like the ones below that I feel the need to drag out into public, point, laugh at, and supply overwhelming amounts of contradicting evidence against such hypothesis about our world, universe, and how it works to curb atempts of teaching this garbage in public schools.

So in other words your saying you're just an childish asshole that beleives he is so much smarter than eveyone else?

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multi- I wasn't accusing you of anything, don't be so paranoid. I am just saying infanticide should be wrong regardless of faith or lack there of. On a side note you did say you were indifferent to abortion......... indifferent is a better bed-fellow with pro-choicers tha pro-life folks.

Hunt Hard and NEVER GIVE UP

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Farnorth Said:

Geosteerer Said:
What is the point of this thread?  The believers are right and the non-believers are wrong.  Believers ask a question and no matter the answer the non- believer is, of course, wrong.  There are some that are trying to push their beliefs and seem suited to be going door to door.  There is also an amazing amount of un-Christian like behavior coming from some.  Regardless of ones belief there could be a little more respect shown here. 

Excellent comment.  It's been fun reading.

There is no middle ground on the abortion issue that started this thread (especially for those who believe strongly).  My suggestion is to give it a rest.  Nobody is going to convince anybody that they are wrong.

FAITH is the belief in something for which there is no proof.  When it comes ot belief in a divine being, you either believe or you don't.  It's really that simple.

Passiton should NOT debate Evolution with MSA until he studies it.  Your question above referring to descending from Apes is clear evidence of that.  Don't take it personal, there are a lot of things I don't understand well enough to debate with somebody who does.  I'm not an expert on Evolution but I know enough about it to know you don't fully grasp the concept.

And likewise perhaps Mulit should refrain from debating others on faith and religion as his own comments have shown how little he "understands it" or "grasps the concept".

When offered the opportunity to "study it" he has turned down that opportunity to debate this with  someone that apparently IS perhaps as much an "expert" on religion as multi seems to be on evolution.  

And yet he chastises others for not veiwing his videos.

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Nothing wrong with some sparring.

Have a great weekend boys!

 

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Its not as much a problem I have with religion as it is a problem I have with people saying things like "atheists have no morals" "fossils are fabricated", "Evolution is a hoax" "the grand canyon wasn't formed by erosion"and "creationism is real science"

These statements I feel I have pushed back behind the bulls**t wall where they belong...for now

So in other words your saying you're just an childish asshole that beleives he is so much smarter than eveyone else?

 

I simply provided evidence (many of you asked for) that contradicts prior statements made (like believing the grand canyon was formed by the colorado river is drinking the kool aid) and you responded to them by calling me names, ignoring or dismissing the evidence I provided after you asked for it, I think my points have been made with the little evidence I provided, but as I have asked before, present your cases with evidence that contradicts what I have shown so far and we can sort this out logically.  we will weigh and compare the evidence from both sides and try to come to conclusions.

Or just call me a jackass and be on your way.

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I can see why some of you feel I don't see or respect you points of view on your religion.  Maybe theres a way to show you why.

Lets take scientology.

Scientology is a religion based on the 1950s science fiction novel written by L. Ron Hubbard.  Here is a brief overview en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientology

Once you understand why you don't believe in this religion, you will understand why I don't believe in yours.

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Farnorth Said:

passiton Said:
Dang it, now MSA has me thinking I'm a minority.  Why am I paying my own cell phone bill? 

I'm not entering a debate on evolution with anyone, not because I don't grasp the concept, but I just don't care about it.   

If you have a passion for something like this, and it directly contradicts religious beliefs, I guess you have to make a choice.   

If you ask a question about man descending from Apes, you clearly don't grasp the concept.  Just sayin.  I'll leave it at that.

ya, ya, ya.  we are different branches on the evolutionary tree.  they went one way and we went another, or they didn't go somewhere and we did.  so we didn't evolve from them, but are similar enough to have come from the same thing.  was that close to what I was suppose to say?

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 i don't know where to begin. but, i will start here. i forgot to respond to plainsmans remark above that it is well settled that any thing of chance above 1 in 50,000 requires an outside influence.... really? do you realize how many games of chance are won in this country alone every week with odds greater than that?
at the risk of offending you (sorry in advance), its clear from your response you have trouble with statistics and probability.
 odds of winning the powerball... 1 in roughly 175,000,000. the examples are endless.... and these examples actually happen every day
 

I don't even want to risk offending you, but didn't you read my explanation of powerball odds?  You do know that a winner is guaranteed do you not?  It's a constructed game and there is no chance that a winner will not be drawn.

Now I have two pages to go to see what others have said.

Multispecies, I have been to the Grand Canyon and read the whole idea of it's formation, but darn if I can remember it.  Errosion is a great earth mover, but I'm not convinced of the timeline.  However, like Dirty Harry said a man needs to know his limitations.  I know my strong suite is not geology. 

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Multispecies, I have been to the Grand Canyon and read the whole idea of it's formation, but darn if I can remember it.  Errosion is a great earth mover, but I'm not convinced of the timeline.  However, like Dirty Harry said a man needs to know his limitations.  I know my strong suite is not geology.

Thats the purpose of that very informative and entertaining video I posted that shows the evidence, how and where that evidence fits in the timeline, along with where and how to find the evidence they show you.

so even if you're still skeptical, next time you're there, you can go discover the physical evidence for yourself.

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espringers Said:
Funny part is msa never said he was pro abortion. He took offense to the idea that without religion there would be no morals. Things snowballed like they always do when religion gets discussed. Another contention is the idea that faith or belief in science requires the same type of faith that religion does. But whatev... Ice house here I come.

espringer I did not say it takes religion.  I simply asked multispecies where he gets his morals.  I have never got a real answer from anyone.  I have gotten reasons why we need morals, but I don't remember anyone saying where they get theirs other than their parents.  However, then where did their parents get theirs?

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 i got m morals from the Prime Directive via Capt. Picard......

Hunt Hard and NEVER GIVE UP

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multi-species-angler Said:

passiton Said:
Dang it, now MSA has me thinking I'm a minority.  Why am I paying my own cell phone bill? 

I'm not entering a debate on evolution with anyone, not because I don't grasp the concept, but I just don't care about it.   

If you have a passion for something like this, and it directly contradicts religious beliefs, I guess you have to make a choice.   

Cared enough to ask some questions like you wanted to understand it more.  now after a few very small examples you shrug your shoulders and say meh, don't care.

The catholic church has accepted evolution due to the overwhelming amounts of evidence it has presented.  They have also accepted the plausibility of life existing on other planets, probably due to the rapid rate we are discovering other planets.  I have respect for the catholic church for realizing they were centuries behind the times and adjusting some of their ways and teachings to adapt to todays world.  I think it also helps keep members around if you don't sound so 16th century.
.

Well after all this you finally hit a nerve with me.  One of the things I, and most of the Catholics I know, truly cherish about the Catholic Church is the lack of any major "change".  Mass is almost identical to when I was a child.  That people feel the "Church" needs to change to accommodate the different ideologies of newer generations absolutely gets my goat, and at the core of what I believe to be the downfall of our society.  Selfishness is all it is.  If you want me to believe than you need to adjust to what I want to believe and how I want to conduct myself.  Crock of crap.  The Catholic Church lays down the ground rules that we as Catholics are suppose to follow in order to be as close to God's image as we can.  These rules/teachings/traditions have turned people away because they require effort to achieve and maintain.  God knows we are not perfect and therefore Catholic's have the sacrament of reconciliation.  Anyone that has gone and been absolved of their sins understands how cleansing and rewarding this process is.  Catholics who believe the church needs to "lighten up" and make changes to be more flexible to the needs of the people have no business in the Catholic church as far as I am concerned.  It is about us being more like God, not God giving us more slack because we don't want to conform.  I would rather have a the Catholic church dwindle down and consist of "good" Catholics than be filled with people who believe they can act anyway they choose during the week and still go to communion on Sunday, when they decide to attend. 

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Well after all this you finally hit a nerve with me.  One of the things I, and most of the Catholics I know, truly cherish about the Catholic Church is the lack of any major "change".  Mass is almost identical to when I was a child.  That people feel the "Church" needs to change to accommodate the different ideologies of newer generations absolutely gets my goat, and at the core of what I believe to be the downfall of our society.  Selfishness is all it is.  If you want me to believe than you need to adjust to what I want to believe and how I want to conduct myself.  Crock of crap.  The Catholic Church lays down the ground rules that we as Catholics are suppose to follow in order to be as close to God's image as we can.  These rules/teachings/traditions have turned people away because they require effort to achieve and maintain.  God knows we are not perfect and therefore Catholic's have the sacrament of reconciliation.  Anyone that has gone and been absolved of their sins understands how cleansing and rewarding this process is.  Catholics who believe the church needs to "lighten up" and make changes to be more flexible to the needs of the people have no business in the Catholic church as far as I am concerned.  It is about us being more like God, not God giving us more slack because we don't want to conform.  I would rather have a the Catholic church dwindle down and consist of "good" Catholics than be filled with people who believe they can act anyway they choose during the week and still go to communion on Sunday, when they decide to attend. 

If its any consolation, I didn't mention it with that intent.  Kind of a reason I'm not a subscriber to religions in general.  Most of them are too inconsistent,  If I ask 100 members of a particular religion a question about their religion, I will get 100 different answers.  If I show 100 different people a page from their religious text, I'll get 100 different interpretations.  What's your take on all the branches of christianity?  like lutheran, baptist, protestant, etc etc.

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espringer I did not say it takes religion.  I simply asked multispecies where he gets his morals.  I have never got a real answer from anyone.  I have gotten reasons why we need morals, but I don't remember anyone saying where they get theirs other than their parents.  However, then where did their parents get theirs?

like I said before, several diferent places, some are instinctive, some taught by my parents, many learned, and I can even accept that some come from religious teachings to past generations of my family.  they definetly don't fade away if I don't believe.

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multi-species-angler Said:
Its not as much a problem I have with religion as it is a problem I have with people saying things like "atheists have no morals" "fossils are fabricated", "Evolution is a hoax" "the grand canyon wasn't formed by erosion"and "creationism is real science"

These statements I feel I have pushed back behind the bulls**t wall where they belong...for now

So in other words your saying you're just an childish asshole that beleives he is so much smarter than eveyone else?

 

I simply provided evidence (many of you asked for) that contradicts prior statements made (like believing the grand canyon was formed by the colorado river is drinking the kool aid) and you responded to them by calling me names, ignoring or dismissing the evidence I provided after you asked for it, I think my points have been made with the little evidence I provided, but as I have asked before, present your cases with evidence that contradicts what I have shown so far and we can sort this out logically.  we will weigh and compare the evidence from both sides and try to come to conclusions.

Or just call me a jackass and be on your way.

I must have missed the "evidence" about the alligator having morals, but regardless, multi as you explain your position please allow me to do so as well, I respect your bkleif in science. Science is an amazing and great thing that has made our lives better in so many ways.

And guess what,  I can say the same thing about faith and in many ways religion.

And before you go off on the travesties done in religions name, stop and think  of negativ impacts science has been used for.

For the people that wish to carry on discussions if fun factual, straightup manners I try to return the same courteousy, but when one engages in condescending quips and insulting tones, please do not seem surprised by the responses. As the good book says 
for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap   

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 passiton, if you want to be closer to the original teachings I suggest you look into Eastern Orthodox

Hunt Hard and NEVER GIVE UP

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And before you go off on the travesties done in religions name, stop and think of negativ impacts science has been used for.

Blaming religion  is like blaming guns, and we all know how we feel about that.  Science?  I suppose the folks in Hiroshima and Nagasaki would agree with us gst.  Maybe the tens of thousands of Kurds Hussein killed, and lets not forget that great gas at Auschwitz. 

like I said before, several diferent places, some are instinctive, some taught by my parents, many learned, and I can even accept that some come from religious teachings to past generations of my family. they definetly don't fade away if I don't believe.

I'm intersted in teh instinctive.  Now where have I heard "I shall write my laws upon their hearts"? 

Passiton, I am in agreement with you.  As you notice that's one of the things that bothers multispecies also.  The three of us can agree on at least that point.  Three years ago I left the ELCA because they are now more interested in political correctness than God.  I guess filling the seats with people and the collection plate with money is more important to them today than filling heaven. 
Check this out and you will perhaps see what happened to multispecies.  They just about did it to me too.
http://www.exposingtheelca.com/

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  Multi, I can understand your frustations on different churches and the way they interept the Bible. Not that long ago if you were in a protestant church, they all had pretty much the same belief, [ babtist, luthern, methodist] and they were all contrary to the catholic church.
  The Bible says the devil is the author of lies, and he has many people confused. Thats why I hold to the truth of the Bible. You cannot deny the historical truth of the old testament. Read the book of Daniel. The Bible is easy to read, like any book just study it. People take one verse, and say look what it says, but they dont read the next verse and how it explains it.
  Evolution takes faith, God takes faith. But I have seen evil like none of you have ever seen. Right in front of me. It did not convert me, I was already a christian, but I tell what it does but fear in somebody. It makes my faith stronger. You cannot read the new testament, and not come away saying that makes sense, what it says is good, and right.
That is why I believe abortions are wrong, God has given that woman a life, we have no right to take that life away.

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multi-species-angler Said:
If its any consolation, I didn't mention it with that intent.  Kind of a reason I'm not a subscriber to religions in general.  Most of them are too inconsistent,  If I ask 100 members of a particular religion a question about their religion, I will get 100 different answers.  If I show 100 different people a page from their religious text, I'll get 100 different interpretations.  What's your take on all the branches of christianity?  like lutheran, baptist, protestant, etc etc.

This is what I was taught:  Catholocism is the one true religion and the 30 some thousand religions in existence today have all branched off Catholocism.  I'm not bashing anyone in those religions,  because had my parents and grandparents been born into a different religion, I would most likely not be Catholic.  I have been to Lutheran church and didn't like it and it seemed fake to me.

buckmaster81 Said:
 passiton, if you want to be closer to the original teachings I suggest you look into Eastern Orthodox

OK look here, I am the last person the Catholic Church wants as their spokesman.  As I said earlier, I have not been the best Catholic.  I don't read the bible or study the religion, but it is a part of who I am and who I want to be.  I am a work in progress. My parents and grandparents were/are devout Catholics and some of the greatest people I will ever know.   I am perfectly content where I am and don't need to go searching for anything more or different.  I can tell you that the priests at St. Leos in the last few years are the best I have ever heard.  They are very conservative and dedicated to keeping the faith traditional.  They have been very instrumental in my personal growth as a Catholic and I respect them tremendously.  If you are Catholic and live in or around Minot and don't attend St. Leo's, I would suggest you make a few visits.

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 I am not trying to offend you passiton, just telling you that the catholic church has added rituals and changed much more over the years than Greek Orthodox church. not that change is bad or good.

Hunt Hard and NEVER GIVE UP

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Who told u a powerball winner is guaranteed? That ain't how it works at all.

Born to hunt and fish... Forced to work!

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espringers Said:
Who told u a powerball winner is guaranteed? That ain't how it works at all.

It is guaranteed that they continue drawing until there is a winner... The statistical problem with the steps to forming a living cell is the rather minute time they can exist to have all these changes.

Hunt Hard and NEVER GIVE UP

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espringers Said:
Who told u a powerball winner is guaranteed? That ain't how it works at all.

What do you think would happen if they never have a winner?   Man I have to start my own personal powerball game.

If your old enough you perhaps can not remember the times you heard the phrase "we now know".  I"ll use something other than the world is flat for an example.  When my father had his first heart attack they told him he had to use Mazola corn oil (the only vegetable based margarine at that time).  They said it would extend his life.  We now know that hydrogenated vegetable oils are as bad or worse than butter.  What that means is they didn't know crap when they thought they did.
I doubt we know more than 10% of the knowledge to be found within the confined sphere of our small world.  Then we try to imagine the universe.  Why is it arrogance tells every generation since the beginning of time that they are the first to know it all?  I think within 100 years people will read the theory of evolution and get a sore stomach laughing.  Lets face it as much as we do know it's very limited. 

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Any of you die hard evolutionists ever watched the Planet of the Apes movie with Mark Wahlberg in it?

Try this one on for size (light heartedly of course)

Perhaps a gazillion years ago God created man in his image as the Bible says, over the next katrillion years apes evolved from man, then over the NEXT katrillion years man evolved back from apes and the story of the origins of mankind were found thousand of years ago in th desert and were shared to allow people to learn the truth of where they came from??

I mean what more "evidence" do you want than a movie that was created by science provides.

This is all just a "theory" though so don;t go quoting it as absolute. But hey if alligators can have morals,,,,,, ANYTHING may be possible.
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espringers Said:
Who told u a powerball winner is guaranteed? That ain't how it works at all.

i want on that train if some one can get me a ticket

 Adn

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I could very well be wrong. But, I just thought they randomly drew balls. If there isn't a winner one week, the money carries over to the next drawing. Odds of a winning ticket being sold each draw increase with the number of tickets sold. I didn't think they keep drawing numbers each week til there is a winner do they? Internet on my phone sux today so I can't search at all. So feel free to correct me. A link would be nice.

Born to hunt and fish... Forced to work!

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And the odds of winning are always the same just based on the odds of matching all 5 white balls in no particular order and the one red ball right?

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When they say $500,000,000 guaranteed... Purdy sure they mean the money is guaranteed to be that much.... Not that winner is guaranteed in that draw.

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The winner is not guaranteed in any draw, but the U. S. Attorney General would be on their case if a winner was not guaranteed.  No single ticket has any guarantee, but the lottery must legally have a winner at some point.  So a winner is guaranteed. 

The chances of a single ticket winning could be one in a hundred million, but the chance of a winner is 100%. 

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Yes. Eventually cause of the odds someone will win... Sometimes the first draw sometimes the 6th. But, not because it is guaranteed in the sense that u are saying it is. A winner is never guaranteed... It is ur classic game of chance... With the odds of matching all 6 numbers 1 in over 175,000,000.

Born to hunt and fish... Forced to work!

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And that's a classic example of how even something with the craziest odds is guaranteed to happen 100% of the time if enough chances are given.

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espringers Said:
And that's a classic example of how even something with the craziest odds is guaranteed to happen 100% of the time if enough chances are given.

Buying a ticket is a lil different then happen stance combinations of enzymes that in there simplest forms only exist for short periods of time stringing together again and again and replicating all with in this tiny timeline. I am not saying it isn't possible but the odds of winning the lottery are MUCH more favorable.

Hunt Hard and NEVER GIVE UP

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I realize that. But, I was using it sa an example because its a common event. It's statistics in its simplest form. And I also felt the need to reply to the contention that the reason they get a winner is cause its "guaranteed"... It's simple math that guarantees the winner.... Not cause they have to make sure someone wins.

Born to hunt and fish... Forced to work!

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Blaming religion  is like blaming guns, and we all know how we feel about that.  Science?  I suppose the folks in Hiroshima and Nagasaki would agree with us gst.  Maybe the tens of thousands of Kurds Hussein killed, and lets not forget that great gas at Auschwitz. 

No. I'd say you have that backwords. Like guns, man has used science for evil. Religion causes people to act certain ways. Science is a tool.

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And its that same simple math that guarantees life will develop under the right conditions given enough chances over enough time regardless of how astronomical the odds.

Born to hunt and fish... Forced to work!

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Plainsman Said:

espringers Said:
Who told u a powerball winner is guaranteed? That ain't how it works at all.

What do you think would happen if they never have a winner?   Man I have to start my own personal powerball game.

If your old enough you perhaps can not remember the times you heard the phrase "we now know".  I"ll use something other than the world is flat for an example.  When my father had his first heart attack they told him he had to use Mazola corn oil (the only vegetable based margarine at that time).  They said it would extend his life.  We now know that hydrogenated vegetable oils are as bad or worse than butter.  What that means is they didn't know crap when they thought they did.
I doubt we know more than 10% of the knowledge to be found within the confined sphere of our small world.  Then we try to imagine the universe.  Why is it arrogance tells every generation since the beginning of time that they are the first to know it all?  I think within 100 years people will read the theory of evolution and get a sore stomach laughing.  Lets face it as much as we do know it's very limited. 

Maybe, What they more than likely won't change their mind on is Evolution itself.

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That's like saying you'll build a car by assembling it slowly, one part every 1000 years. What keeps the elements from destroying the car while it waits for each new part?

 

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BringingTheRain Said:

Blaming religion  is like blaming guns, and we all know how we feel about that.  Science?  I suppose the folks in Hiroshima and Nagasaki would agree with us gst.  Maybe the tens of thousands of Kurds Hussein killed, and lets not forget that great gas at Auschwitz. 

No. I'd say you have that backwords. Like guns, man has used science for evil. Religion causes people to act certain ways. Science is a tool.

Come on bringin how does religion without man cause evil?

Those that wish to do evil use religion as a tool to accomplish it just as they use any other tool.

What you are claiming is that religion in itself is evil and that it uses man to commit it.

Without the "science" of mustard gas would man act to use it?  Man "uses" science to develope "evil" just as man "uses" religion to develope evil. 
 

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espringers Said:
I realize that. But, I was using it sa an example because its a common event. It's statistics in its simplest form. And I also felt the need to reply to the contention that the reason they get a winner is cause its "guaranteed"... It's simple math that guarantees the winner.... Not cause they have to make sure someone wins.

Your wrong, they legally have to guarantee someone will win.  Do you really thing that our legal system would let them gather hundreds of millions of dollars and not have a winner?  People are in prison for things like that. 

Did you know that the rules for gambling in Vegas require a certain percentage?  Even the one armed bandits have a percentage they must return on average.  I think it's over 90%.  I think the Native American casino's are around 70%.  Not sure though.  However, if I was a gambler I sure would head for Vegas and not the reservation.

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guywhofishes Said:
That's like saying you'll build a car by assembling it slowly, one part every 1000 years. What keeps the elements from destroying the car while it waits for each new part?

A perfect example and that's how they developed the idea of irreversible complexity.    Lets pretend the car is a human.  Evolution tells us if it develops something advantageous to the species the species retains it in it's genetic code.  So the car develops a steering wheel.  It has no wheels to run on, no motor, no transmission, no frame etc.  Why would the steering wheel be retained? A human cell is a hundred times more complex than a car.  What's the chance of a cell spontaneously generating with all of it's parts at once? Maybe one in ten trillion or more?  I don't know, but it's beyond our comprehension. Whatever the chances are it is far beyond the statistic chances of it happening.

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Sorry bud. But, u are wrong... And u still don't have a clue why.

Born to hunt and fish... Forced to work!

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gst Said:

BringingTheRain Said:

Blaming religion  is like blaming guns, and we all know how we feel about that.  Science?  I suppose the folks in Hiroshima and Nagasaki would agree with us gst.  Maybe the tens of thousands of Kurds Hussein killed, and lets not forget that great gas at Auschwitz. 

No. I'd say you have that backwords. Like guns, man has used science for evil. Religion causes people to act certain ways. Science is a tool.

Come on bringin how does religion without man cause evil?  

Those that wish to do evil use religion as a tool to accomplish it just as they use any other tool.

What you are claiming is that religion in itself is evil and that it uses man to commit it.

Without the "science" of mustard gas would man act to use it?  Man "uses" science to develope "evil" just as man "uses" religion to develope evil. 

To be fair, you can't really compare the two I don't think.  

guywhofishes Said:
That's like saying you'll build a car by assembling it slowly, one part every 1000 years. What keeps the elements from destroying the car while it waits for each new part?

Were you referring to my comment?

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meatball tells me to live by the old testament....guywhofishes tells me the old testament doesn't count...???  if I had a gun to me head and was forced to take a side on the same religion?

wwjd?

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BringingTheRain Said:

gst Said:

BringingTheRain Said:

Blaming religion  is like blaming guns, and we all know how we feel about that.  Science?  I suppose the folks in Hiroshima and Nagasaki would agree with us gst.  Maybe the tens of thousands of Kurds Hussein killed, and lets not forget that great gas at Auschwitz. 

No. I'd say you have that backwords. Like guns, man has used science for evil. Religion causes people to act certain ways. Science is a tool.

Come on bringin how does religion without man cause evil?  

Those that wish to do evil use religion as a tool to accomplish it just as they use any other tool.

What you are claiming is that religion in itself is evil and that it uses man to commit it.

Without the "science" of mustard gas would man act to use it?  Man "uses" science to develope "evil" just as man "uses" religion to develope evil. 

To be fair, you can't really compare the two I don't think.  

Why?

Because it does not help your beleif religion is evil?

You really do not have a clue about religion.

Evil is in us all. It is not religion, science,evolution or purple elephants that create it or force or entice us to use it, it is ourselves that allow it, it is morals and conscience that prevent it.

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espringers Said:
Sorry bud. But, u are wrong... And u still don't have a clue why.

What do you think would happen if Publishers Clearing house told people there was no winner?   Have you ever bought a ticket for a local raffle?  Have you ever bought one where there was no winner?  There is always a winner, a guaranteed winner. 

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