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Alpine's picture
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Oh, I followed that bobcat.  My question in regards was rhetorical.

"Also, when the congregation reads the '"we believe" passage"

I take it you mean the Apostle's Creed.  All denominations have their dogma's, the Creed is nothing more than a symbol of belief. The Apostles' Creed was based on Christian theological understanding of the Canonical gospels, the letters of the New and Old Testament.

"we believe in the "communion of the saints".   Respectfully what does this mean?  "
 
What you refer to is simply the spiritual union between members of the Christian community, living and dead.  Heaven and earth.

"This is a serious question!  Most of us have heard in church that "Jesus died and God allowed him to die and even sent him froM Heaven  to save us from our sins?" How does that work?  I've never understood it and have never had any kind of adequate explanation"
 
You really haven't paid attention, have you?   You readily dismiss God without making any attempt to understand or accept faith.  This is clearly understood when you understand the very book you spit on.  The Old and New Testament discuss this very thing, from original sin to the essence of the Trinity.  The sacrifice, the acceptance.
John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."

 

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Nope... Laws are not the next step after theories. I suggest u re-read some of these posts or put Google to work for u.

Born to hunt and fish... Forced to work!

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Now bobcat, the one verse I quoted above does not tell the story, it sets the stage.  Hundreds of verses tell the story.  Invest some time, we are all running out of it.   Salvation can not be conned, it can not be bought, it can not be earned.  It is already bought and paid for.  It is already yours.   You just simply have to accept the gift.  Try to earn it, and all is already lost.  Acceptance is the path.  That only comes through faith, through grace.

I'll say again, many of the greatest minds of science in the past and of today are devout Christians.  More to their own divine messenger.    To say your knowledge of elementary science eliminates you from being able to believe is a laughable cop out.

 

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Respectfully what does this mean? Help me out here!
this is not meant to ruffle anyone's feathers, but I've seriously tried for years to get some kind of Explanation to truly understand this!
This is probably not the website to get enlightened, but no insult intended, we seem to have a lot of sincere Christians on here, so therefore at least some of them should know the answers to my 60 a 70 year old questions!

I really appreciate the respect.   I think evolution is currently a religion because it also takes faith.  To answer your above will take some serious thinking.  I need to talk to other people who are smarter than myself about some of these things.  I'll give you my short response for now.
Was George Washington our first president, have you been to Australia?  There is a reason I asked these questions that looked like they had no bearing on what we were talking about.  People didn't even want to answer them.  Evolution has no written history.  People who believe George Washington was president have faith in history.  People that believe Australia is there have faith in the word of others who have been there, seen it, touched it, etc.  Many say Christianity  is crazy.  However, there are many eye witnesses who wrote about the life of Jesus Christ.  Many who were secular historians.  Many who interviewed people who were with or who had been taught be Jesus or one of the disciples.  There is vast history pointing to many things that are true.  So many are true that I am willing to accept some things I can not explain.  I believe all the written history is more valid than evolution.

Now don't take this as an insult towards you.  It's simply that you used a statement that is one of my pet peeves.  Number one is think outside the box.  Number two is give me 110% of your effort.  I have had supervisors say that and immediately thought I was dealing with a moron.  We are all captive within a box of our experience and education.  The give 110% shouldn't even need explanation to a third grader.  There now, got that off my chest. 

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enlighten me.  What is the next step after theory?  Keep in mind, any additional steps beyond theory adds more distance to scientific law (for the case of evolution being the cause of creation).  At any rate, once a law is proven and accepted there isn't any higher acknowledgement of the phenomena or circumstance.  Scientific law is scientifc law, and accepted as that.  Ahhhem...Theory of Evolution.

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i've already done that on this thread more than once.  as have a few others.  not gonna waste my time doing it again.  but, i suppose i can help you out on how to get started on figuring it out for yourself... 1.  go to your web browser address bar.  2.  type the following:  www.google.com.  3.  there will be a little window below the word "Google" (usually it is some fanciful lettering) in the middle of your screen... type "law vs theory" or "theory vs. law" into that little window.  4.  hit "enter"... its on the right hand side of your keyboard.  

if you do 1-4 correctly, you will get a number of links to things called webpages.  given google's prolificity (i think that's a word... google can tell you that too) for coming up with webpages that are relevant to the words put into the window referenced in #3 above, you should have enough information in the links provided on the first page alone to explain it to you in much greater detail than i planned on doing in a one or two sentence post.   

Born to hunt and fish... Forced to work!

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peace out... these threads have a knack for turning me into an asshole... or maybe just bringing out my inherently assholish (google can probably tell you if that's a word too) nature.  so, i better just cut this snake off at the head before i get any worse and turn off my web browser for the day.  sorry if i offended anyone.  

Born to hunt and fish... Forced to work!

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WormWiggler Said:

johnr Said:

WormWiggler Said:
Which end of a worm is the butt?

tickle the middle and see which end laughs.

sounds legit,  but I have been know to laugh so hard I shit my pants and laugh so hard I threw up,  so the question evolves to how hard to tickle your worm

You will have to taste it...

Neat

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espringers Said:
peace out... these threads have a knack for turning me into an asshole... or maybe just bringing out my inherently assholish (google can probably tell you if that's a word too) nature.  so, i better just cut this snake off at the head before i get any worse and turn off my web browser for the day.  sorry if i offended anyone.  

apology accepted

 "I'll show you where the bear sh**s in the woods!" ~ Dad
(I still have no clue what it means.)

"You're not really even my son." ~ Dad
(I still don't believe him.)

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espringers Said:
peace out... these threads have a knack for turning me into an asshole... or maybe just bringing out my inherently assholish (google can probably tell you if that's a word too) nature.  so, i better just cut this snake off at the head before i get any worse and turn off my web browser for the day.  sorry if i offended anyone.  

   you sir are a mean man and my feelings are very hurt   

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jsthntn Said:
 

espringers Said:
peace out... these threads have a knack for turning me into an asshole... or maybe just bringing out my inherently assholish (google can probably tell you if that's a word too) nature.  so, i better just cut this snake off at the head before i get any worse and turn off my web browser for the day.  sorry if i offended anyone.  

apology accepted

I dont know if I can except this opology

Neat

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 sorry if i offended anyone.

Same here.

By the way, I have noticed that the definition of theory has changed over the years.  You have to be over 50 perhaps to have noticed it.  I have a theory too.  My theory is scientists who are full of themselves have pushed to add credentials to their theories that they can't prove by exaggerating the idea of a theory.  In reality it really is a hypothesis with hypothetical and sometimes physical evidence.  Not real great. 

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espringers Said:
peace out... these threads have a knack for turning me into an asshole... or maybe just bringing out my inherently assholish (google can probably tell you if that's a word too) nature.  so, i better just cut this snake off at the head before i get any worse and turn off my web browser for the day.  sorry if i offended anyone.  

been there, done that

 

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johnr Said:

WormWiggler Said:

johnr Said:

WormWiggler Said:
Which end of a worm is the butt?

tickle the middle and see which end laughs.

sounds legit,  but I have been know to laugh so hard I shit my pants and laugh so hard I threw up,  so the question evolves to how hard to tickle your worm

You will have to taste it...

How do you differentiate (note $5 word) between worm crap and worm vomit?  I suspect my taste buds have been drowned in beer one too many times for this line of work,  I'll just put a hook in each end and tie my line around its middle.

                                                                                                                         

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WormWiggler Said:
How do you differentiate (note $5 word) between worm crap and worm vomit?  I suspect my taste buds have been drowned in beer one too many times for this line of work,  I'll just put a hook in each end and tie my line around its middle.

Well duh, one will taste like sh!t....

Neat

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What's still got me laughing about this whole thing is that the last time I showed you that video, you admitted that you had a misunderstanding about scientific law and theory. Nothing in science is ever concidered completely proved without a doubt. Only there is more evidence at the current time to support something, than there is evidence to dissprove something.

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I can't get this crazy computer to work this evening. A number of things like quote that it will not do. I guess I'll take it to the computer doctor tomorrow.
Anyway, BTR I don't remember, but I'm confident you wouldn't bs me so I'll take your word for it without question.
I guess I may have thought about it more since I'm back to thinking as I was taught many years ago. Like I said I think some ego driven scientist wanted to make more of his theory so like so many things the language changes meaning. That's to bad because something that can not be proven certainly should not have the same weight as something that can be proven.

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Plainsman Said:
I can't get this crazy computer to work this evening. A number of things like quote that it will not do. I guess I'll take it to the computer doctor tomorrow.
Anyway, BTR I don't remember, but I'm confident you wouldn't bs me so I'll take your word for it without question.
I guess I may have thought about it more since I'm back to thinking as I was taught many years ago. Like I said I think some ego driven scientist wanted to make more of his theory so like so many things the language changes meaning. That's to bad because something that can not be proven certainly should not have the same weight as something that can be proven.

Evolution is considered a fact in science, it can't be considered a law because it is too complex. There is also the theory of evolution. I've been trying to get you to understand that. Considering something a fact is when there is more evidence supporting it than there is dissproving it.

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It amazes me how many people in the US do not "believe" evolution. Its the same broken record over and over, "evolution is just a theory" and keep comparing it to far fetched hypothesis and "what ifs"

every time a living thing replicates (makes babies) it changes (aka evolves) you are not 100% your father or mother, you are about 95% your father and mother and about 5-10% unique, now some of that unique stuff is passed on, if you get the opportunity to breed, and a few hundred or thousand generations later you can have one changed specie or several different species depending on the unique characteristics that reproduced in one group or separated into different groups.

where do the unique traits come from??? from mutations, errors in the DNA replication. some are good, some are bad, regardless, these errors happen with every single generation of all living things big and small.

Evolution is waaaayy to big to be compromised by one bad scientist or some mislabeled fossils and especially not by evidenceless hypothesis.

evolution has been, still is, and always will be observed, tested, and studied. not only is there more reviewed and tested evidence for evolution than any other "theory", new supporting evidence is found every day, and it is reviewed, tested, and observed over and over and over again.

regardless of what your definition of theory is, or your hypothesis of how the species of animals that have and do exist here are so diverse and continue to change, that doesn't change the fact that it is real, and it does happen....its evolution, animals evolve and so did we.

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Multispecies don't apply for a genetics job. I forget the exact breakdown, but if I remember it's 25% of each of your parents, 12.5% each set of grandparents and on down. So 50% parents, 25% all grandparents, 12.5 % all great-grandparents etc.

No evolution is not fact. If it were fact it would no longer be theory. That is so wrong I don't know where to begin. Fact???? Maybe you better let the scientific community know that.

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you are wrong, its that simple.

If it is not fact, then go claim your Nobel prize by presenting your case that disproves the observation of species changing into others to the entire scientific community.

Gather your evidence and present it to the world to be reviewed and compared to what supports evolution. don't tell me evolution is wrong, I'm nobody, Go show the world what you have discovered, become famous and claim your prize. You're just gonna leave us in the dark to believe such foolishness?

The ENTIRE scientific community is waiting for evidence of your claim, and this is how you convey groundbreaking scientific Nobel prize winning information, to me, here on fishingbuddy.

I'm myself am eager and excited to see such earth shattering evidence that could contradict the mountain ranges of data, testing, evidence, and observations that explain and show us how life changes and adapts on this planet.

Don't reply to me, go tell the real scientists and scholars of the world.

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Life is good
 

 

 

 

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Geothermal Said:
 

this was probably the best post of this entire thread

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Boy you "science" guys get your panties in a wad when someone questions YOUR FAITH in a "theory".

So far I have only seen a couple of posts where people actually sound like they understand faith, and they aint from the junior scientist club.

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 gst is another modest man of wisdom who refuses to present his earth shattering evidence against evolution and claim his Nobel prize.

I don't need faith to know my shoes are tied, just like evolution, I can look and see for myself, I can touch the laces, I can untie and then retie them to be extra sure, I can the ask another person to look and tell me they are tied, then have them untie and retie my shoes.  That's how science works.

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I guess my faith in God is the same as your faith in evolution.  I believe!  I also understand your believing by what you have seen and observed.  The words of Christ in John 20:29:  "Thomas, because you have seen me, you believe.  Blessed are those who have not seen, yet still believe."

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 I can "shake hands" with evolution

Things like evolution don't care what religious faith you believe or practice.  The evidence, tests, and observations are the same with or without it.  1+1=2 if you're Muslim, 1+1=2 if you're hindu, 1+1=2 if you're Christian, and even if you practice Santeria.  

Evolution has happened, does happen, and will continue to happen with every replication of a living thing.  Don't question me, don't just have faith its real, go shake hands with it.  The evidence and observations are there for all to see.

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 scientists don't want you to "have faith" in what they find, they want you to come look at and analyze it, to be critical of it, double check their work, over and over again always on the look out for mistakes.  Don't insult their hard work by just having faith, when so much evidence is there to observe, test, and touch.

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 Nuke the Whales

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 Nuke the Whales

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