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multi-species-angler's picture
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 plainsman, the bad examples of few does not discredit all.

Evolution does not have a political party agenda

Darwin's theory is proven daily on many many individual accounts.  Like watching micro evolution take place under a microscope.  Darwin came up with the idea, gathered a fair amount of evidence, gave it a name, and handed it to the world to run with and complete it as best we can.  So far no compelling or credible evidence has been brought forth to contradict it

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Also... You seem to be insinuating I am criticizing u for having faith. I haven't and I am not. I have been pretty straight forward about why I stay involved is these bitchfests... And that's because I take issue w the idea that it takes no more faith to believe in religion than it does evolution. That seems ridiculous to me given the definition of the word faith.

Born to hunt and fish... Forced to work!

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multi, how aout you try answering one simple question. Is the eating of alligator young by the males a "moral" behavior?

Your "science" has yet to answer that other than.....................................................
 
"The first problem is your personal definition of morals"

espringers, YOU are the one that offered up the claim you probably "pratice" a religion not much different than mine.

Gst, nope. You clearly haven't read all the posts. If u had, u wouldve noticed I probably practice the same religion as u.

I am simply curious why you seem to deny the religious ideals of mans creation as false, but apparently choose to accept other ideals in your "practicing" of religion.

I mean if you do not beleive a higher power could create mankind, how can you beleive this higher power can care for your soul after you are dead?

And if you can not beleive this why bother "practicing" a religion at all??

Now when you realize this admission of your religious practices will likely paint you in a corner, you decide to clam up and offer no explanations.

To you junior science club members, why should we beleive the accuracy of your science claims when the links I provided clearly show scientists that beleive these claims to be false or at the least inaccurate given new evidence being found every day?

How many times in just our lifetimes has "widely accepted science" been turned completely on it's head given new technologies and discoveries?

Multi are eggs good or bad for you?

Espringers why do you "practice" religion but beleive man crawled out of the swamp billions of years ago?

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espringers Said:
Also... You seem to be insinuating I am criticizing u for having faith. I haven't and I am not. I have been pretty straight forward about why I stay involved is these bitchfests... And that's because I take issue w the idea that it takes no more faith to believe in religion than it does evolution. That seems ridiculous to me given the definition of the word faith.

Where has anyone claimed it takes no more faith to beleive in religion than science?

It takes a tremendous amount of faith to beleive in the religious ideals of mans creation along with all other aspects that go along with these religious ideals.

It is why so many people have a hard time accepting them apparently including yourself.

You wish to "practice" a religion, but not accept ALL the ideals that go along with it.

You have no concept of a religious based faith if you beleive you can pick and choose which ideals of religion you will accept and which you will deny.

I also have been pretty straight forward in why I involve myself in these discussions. I have NO problem with people beleiving in evolution if they choose, show me once where I have demanded multi beleive in Gods creation of man or he will go to hell.

Multi, you and others simply cannot say the same. You DEMAND we accept the "theory" of evolutions creation of mankind from swamp sludge.

You at least have been respectful in how you have gone about that contrary to multis snide little comments.

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gst Said:
multi, how aout you try answering one simple question. Is the eating of alligator young by the males a "moral" behavior?

Your "science" has yet to answer that other than.....................................................
 
"The first problem is your personal definition of morals"

espringers, YOU are the one that offered up the claim you probably "pratice" a religion not much different than mine.

Gst, nope. You clearly haven't read all the posts. If u had, u wouldve noticed I probably practice the same religion as u.

I am simply curious why you seem to deny the religious ideals of mans creation as false, but apparently choose to accept other ideals in your "practicing" of religion.

I mean if you do not beleive a higher power could create mankind, how can you beleive this higher power can care for your soul after you are dead?

And if you can not beleive this why bother "practicing" a religion at all??

Now when you realize this admission of your religious practices will likely paint you in a corner, you decide to clam up and offer no explanations.

To you junior science club members, why should we beleive the accuracy of your science claims when the links I provided clearly show scientists that beleive these claims to be false or at the least inaccurate given new evidence being found every day?

How many times in just our lifetimes has "widely accepted science" been turned completely on it's head given new technologies and discoveries?

Multi are eggs good or bad for you?

Espringers why do you "practice" religion but beleive man crawled out of the swamp billions of years ago?

There is an answer, but lets focus on evolution for now.  We will talk all about crocodillians social and primitive moral behavior in the next class.

So, do you deny that the short list of hominid species I listed earlier exists? Did I make them up? Or do you believe they are real.

If you know they are real where do they fit in your disbelief of evolution?

Try to stay focused and on topic here and i promise we will talk about aligators later, maybe even do some hands on research

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I'll cut to the chase.

I believe if people aren't seeing UFOs which are not products of US govt test craft etc then they're demonic in nature.  This is supported by the Bible.  The Flood explains gaps in Evolution Theory and even the Grand Canyon.  The Pre-Flood World received no precipitation and the sun was a hazy light which penetrated the fog in the upper atmoshphere.  Scientists in Japan have grown tomatoes the size of watermelons within these conditions and atmospheric pressure.  Man "creates" with material already available.  Hawking cannot explain the origin of matter which suppossedly(sp) resulted in the Universe.

The Who is the greatest rock band as they never went blatantly Satanic:

  http://youtu.be/b5P8mV6lKMM

 Nuke the Whales

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Gst, my answers wouldn't paint me in a corner. I am purdy certain most people have pretty complicated belief systems that don't always jive with every aspect of the religion they practice. And I am actually pretty at peace with mine and willingly discuss it w folks I know... With u on a hunting and fishing website... Naw! I will pass. U take every word in the old and new testament literally?

Born to hunt and fish... Forced to work!

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multi-species-angler Said:
 plainsman, the bad examples of few does not discredit all.

Evolution does not have a political party agenda

Darwin's theory is proven daily on many many individual accounts.  Like watching micro evolution take place under a microscope.  Darwin came up with the idea, gathered a fair amount of evidence, gave it a name, and handed it to the world to run with and complete it as best we can.  So far no compelling or credible evidence has been brought forth to contradict it

I have not followed this thread.  I went to this page and read this post and I thought I should comment.  I've read other comments on many other threads over the years as well, so I guess this is in regards to all of them by everybody.  If this has been discussed before then I am remiss.  First I must say I was raised very strict Catholic, alter boy and the whole nine yards.  When I was about 11 years old I questioned my mom about evolution, and how Adam and Eve and evolution did not jive.  My moters response was "go call the priest", which I did.  I was surprised with the response I received.  He told me that it was the creation story of the authors.  He said they did not understand as we do today.  He told me the Catholic church endorsed evolution, he said god can create in any way he sees fit and evolution comports with that.  About 10 years ago the Pope came out publically endorsing evolution.  I know some other Christian religions take the bible verbatum (through translation of 2000 year old texts).  Whatever it's worth that's my $0.02.  Any thoughts?

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 jig4pig, if you hold a particular faith in something beyond our vision and discovery, that does not conflict with me in the slightest.

You are right, even the catholic church could not ignore the overwhelming amounts of evidence and data any longer and had to finally come forward and publicly accept it.

I have a problem with people who make claims like "evolution isnt real" and then don't back it up with any evidence, just keep changing the subject and presenting bad examples of lame hypothesis, they basically repeat the "because I say so" argument.

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svnmag Said:
I'll cut to the chase.

I believe if people aren't seeing UFOs which are not products of US govt test craft etc then they're demonic in nature.  This is supported by the Bible.  The Flood explains gaps in Evolution Theory and even the Grand Canyon.  The Pre-Flood World received no precipitation and the sun was a hazy light which penetrated the fog in the upper atmoshphere.  Scientists in Japan have grown tomatoes the size of watermelons within these conditions and atmospheric pressure.  Man "creates" with material already available.  Hawking cannot explain the origin of matter which suppossedly(sp) resulted in the Universe.

The Who is the greatest rock band as they never went blatantly Satanic:

  http://youtu.be/b5P8mV6lKMM

Svnmag, these are all cool things outside of my areas of expertise but well within my interests, and I would love to discuss them in another thread.  The topic of the moment is "evolution true or false?"

What is your answer to my previous question about the list of hominid species I listed a page ago?

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multi-species-angler Said:
 jig4pig, if you hold a particular faith in something beyond our vision and discovery, that does not conflict with me in the slightest.

You are right, even the catholic church could not ignore the overwhelming amounts of evidence and data any longer and had to finally come forward and publicly accept it.

I have a problem with people who make claims like "evolution isnt real" and then don't back it up with any evidence, just keep changing the subject and presenting bad examples of lame hypothesis, they basically repeat the "because I say so" argument.

You are right, reality is hard to dispute.  I wasn't trying to single you out.  I can't go fishing tonight so I thought I'd throw a comment for once.  I guess the main point I was trying to make which didn't come out in my previous post was that the largest religion in the world supports evolution.  So the Christians who refute evolution are either not Catholic or don't follow their religion very well.  For the record I am not a practicing Catholic and have only been to mass maybe 20 times in the last 20 years, though I am abreast of religion, particularly the Catholic religion.  No bible thumpin'  here.

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" plainsman, the bad examples of few does not discredit all."

It doesn't discredit completely, but it does damage us all. That is why I am such a stickler on theory. You young guys may think we have proven evolution, but since you can't go back a million years there is no way to prove evolution. Do you know who swallows evolution hook line and sinker? Many white supremacists.

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multi you seem to pick and choose what questions you wish to ignore quite well  while demanding others answer yours, it is trait you carry from thread to thread.
 
If I remember right, there were a number of unanswered questions by you in the last thread as well including the one about alligators morals in eating their young.

But then I can see where you would want to avoid answering that one!

How about just answering something simple like does TODAYS science say eggs are good or bad for you?

Show absolute proof mankind crawled out of the swamp sludge as you have previously claimed.

No pretty colored charts or pictures of lycanthorpes avatar in various stages or multi colored girafes,

Rock solid PROOF that mankind "evolved" form a single cell organism.

I mean you are the guy chastising those of us with faith in something, so show the rock solid scientific evidence that mankind crawled out of the swamp on his belly.

Beleive what you wish multi, but try to give this same consideration and respect to others. After all, it just may be the "moral" thing to do!

Espringers, my religion is Luthern. You are not "practicing" the same religion as I if your faith allows you to beleive your soul will be granted eternal peace and redemption if you deny God's creations and sacrafices.

Indeed it is easy to claim to have "faith" / "practice religion" when you just pick and choose what to have faith in.

Enjoy the conversation in your next Junior Science Club meeting fellas, this has transpired like the last couple have.

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multi-species-angler Said:
 

svnmag Said:
I'll cut to the chase.

I believe if people aren't seeing UFOs which are not products of US govt test craft etc then they're demonic in nature.  This is supported by the Bible.  The Flood explains gaps in Evolution Theory and even the Grand Canyon.  The Pre-Flood World received no precipitation and the sun was a hazy light which penetrated the fog in the upper atmoshphere.  Scientists in Japan have grown tomatoes the size of watermelons within these conditions and atmospheric pressure.  Man "creates" with material already available.  Hawking cannot explain the origin of matter which suppossedly(sp) resulted in the Universe.

The Who is the greatest rock band as they never went blatantly Satanic:

  http://youtu.be/b5P8mV6lKMM

Svnmag, these are all cool things outside of my areas of expertise but well within my interests, and I would love to discuss them in another thread.  The topic of the moment is "evolution true or false?"

What is your answer to my previous question about the list of hominid species I listed a page ago?

The hominid species were/are perversions resulting from evil sexual encounters with Creation.

Now my question with Creation vs Evolution:

Why doesn't God kick Evil in the ass? The Scripture says He will:  What's the deal?  Please don't get me in the stocks or burned at the stake.

 

 Nuke the Whales

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 bravo svnmag!  Now if you're serious about that answer, can you elaborate just a bit? You mean we were mating with other species? Or they were the spawn of real demonic beings?

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 as usual we have to skim over 50 of gst's posted repetiveness to guage some sort of an answer from him, correct me if I'm wrong but gst does not believe evolution is real or happens because mankind is stll not sure if eggs are good or bad for us?

Even if I answered all your off topic questions gst you would still avoid the current ones.

Do you believe all those hominid species bones and fossils are demons?

If you'd pay attention to all those colorful charts and videos I post you might see they answer a lot of the questions you're asking.

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multi, I thought you would have been smart enough to understand the questions about whether eggs are now good for you based on TODAYS science is to point out that the very "science" you claim is absolute has as many 180 degree turns as anything out there even in something as simple in developing a "theory" on as whether eggs are good for you or not.

Apparently not as you are wrong.

I respect your choice of "faith" in the CURRENT science of evolution based on what you shoose to believe.

Can you say the same for anyone elses choice of faith in creationism?

Please do not lie and claim you do, there is enough "evidence" to prove otherwise.

There in lies the reason I participate in these discussions with you.

If you wish to beleive nothing awaits you but rotting into sludge that will billions of years from now transform into a single cell creature based on carbon dating and DNA mapping with a history of how many years you are most certainly welcome too.

So two questions yet unanswered multi as I can not find the answers as you claimed in those videos and colorful charts.

Does todays science concerning eggs and their impact on ones health contradict yesterdays science concerning eggs?

And does the absolute factual science you champion regard alligators eating their young as it's "definition of morals"?

Perhaps you can define for us what "your science's definition of moral behavior" for an alligator is!

I mean hell maybe eating ones young is a moral decision for an alligator.

I mean it was YOU that claimed alligators have morals in a previous evolution thread, so if you will not answer this question, how can we base the standards of fact or truth of any of your other comments?

You have completely missed my statement that I believe in the "process" of evolution, simply not your claim of mankinds creation. Nor am I arrogant enough to believe TODAYS science will be the same 50 years from now.

Big difference if your mind is open enough to allow you to recognize it.

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 if you would read any of my posts you would see my examples of mistaken science on the topic of evolution.  We didn't have to jump to nutritional thoeries to make that point.

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 no, alligators eating their young does not have anything to do with any other exhibitions of moral behavior, just as humans disgusting atrocities does not negate the fact that we exhibit moral behavior.

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Just so we are clear Gst... U don't think a person can have eternal peace if they believe evolution is real? Good on ya. Guess what... I feel differently. And u are right... I ain't a Lutheran. Darn heathens... Don't believe a miracle happens each and every time a priest performs the sacrament of communion... How can your faith teach such nonsense. I ain't sure... What does the religion I "practice" have to say about the ability of Lutherans to find eternal peace and redemption if they don't share our beliefs about such important things? Care to take a guess whether I give two shit or not?

Born to hunt and fish... Forced to work!

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 now, back on topic.

You claim to be a creationist, that's great, and I would respect that if creationists kept creationism in their churches, private schools, and their heads.  But no, creationists want it to be part of the public school curriculum.

Even though there is no evidence whatsoever to show how or when creationism works or took place.  Creationism can be taught in one afternoon.  It is a hypothesis, creationism cannot even graduate to "just a theory" status you like to look down on so much.

So how is it you believe in a evidenceless hypothesis, and not an observed, tested, theory sopported by countless facts and miles of mountains of evidence?....oh yeah....faith.

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While we are at it... Talking bout making sure we practice and believe everything our religion teaches to a T and all... Do u also believe all other belief systems other than yours are doomed to rot in your version of Hell without any hope of eternal peace regardless if how pure, good and noble a life they lead? I can't wait to share hotwings with Gandhi and the dali lama in Hell and point out to them where they went wrong according to GST.

Born to hunt and fish... Forced to work!

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 ill exit this topic on a final short note:

Do you know why creationism loses in court over and over again? Even when the juries are 100% religious creationists?  Because the creationist have never supplied any evidence to support their claims to the court, not even proof, but, just a little bit of evidence.

Its like a prosecutor constantly trying a man for murder over and over again, and all the prosecution says is, "he killed him"  no blood, no fingerprints, no weapon, no motive, no evidence.

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and I'll leave a video I know the creationists won't watch.

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multi-species-angler Said:
 now, back on topic.

You claim to be a creationist, that's great, and I would respect that if creationists kept creationism in their churches, private schools, and their heads.  But no, creationists want it to be part of the public school curriculum.

Even though there is no evidence whatsoever to show how or when creationism works or took place.  Creationism can be taught in one afternoon.  It is a hypothesis, creationism cannot even graduate to "just a theory" status you like to look down on so much.

So how is it you believe in a evidenceless hypothesis, and not an observed, tested, theory sopported by countless facts and miles of mountains of evidence?....oh yeah....faith.

Multi I asked you not to lie in your response.

Once again your disdain for others faith and beleifs is shown in your comments.

Your claim creationism can be taught in one afternoon only shows how little you really know about it.

There are people who have devoted their whole lives learning about what is tied to creationism, you simply can not teach it or learn it in one afternoon.

Why do you fear creationsim being offered alongside evolutionary theories?

I really do not have a problem with them both being offered to young minds. I mean should we not be teaching our youth to examine differing thought process and use their own minds to make up their minds rather than just spoon feeding them what one group believe are facts based on current data?

(And before you go down the path of "do you want muslims teachings in school" how about a simple alternative creationism approach devoid of denominational ties? )

I mean how will we create minds that will challenge and advance thinking and science if we limit the minds developement process?

I mean really what value is here to teach evolution at the age it is being introduced to school kids as complex as you have shown it to be? Is there really an understanding acheived in thrid grade or is it more towards indoctrination? 

Once again multi what is there to fear?
 
Multi, as an evolutionist here is one more question for you to not answer.

Do you beleive your own science will evolve to find changes to current widely accepted theories?

I mean that was the whole purpose behind offering those two links. Those were not creationist ideologues offering up alternative claims, it was new science showing how old science was incorrect in their deductions on evolutionary findings.

An example of science evolving. A tiny step down the long path of evolution in finding new answers, yet you seem to beleive this is not possible in the science you have today accepted as fact.

Will you assure us that the science of 50 years from now will not have developed technologies that will dispell current scientific theories regarding evolution?
 
Given history that would be a hard claim to make, so how do you know what will be discovered to impact current "widely accepted theories"

Multi are eggs good or bad for you. Come on multi use your thought process to uderstand the intent of this question.  

So why not allow the youth of today to have the ability to develope the thought process needed to continue this "evolution" of thinking that will be required to advance science and what it brings humanity?

What are you afraid of?

You seem overly ready to diminish others beleifs as a mechanism to protect your own.
 
Perhaps that is why espringers will not answer simple questions regarding his faith even though he admonishes others for their beleifs and faith when it comes to creationism.
 
Indeed it is easy to explain science and ones "faith" when you get to pick and choose one's own  "definition of morals".

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The evolution of man and woman

                                                                                                                         

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 watch the video gst, it is 100% relavent to this discussion of evolution vs. Creationism.

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 you keep asking me if I believe theories can change or be wrong and if you would read my posts you would see I gave very good examples of what your asking for, now watch the video, you Sony doing shit but surfing the net anyway.

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espringers Said:
While we are at it... Talking bout making sure we practice and believe everything our religion teaches to a T and all... Do u also believe all other belief systems other than yours are doomed to rot in your version of Hell without any hope of eternal peace regardless if how pure, good and noble a life they lead? I can't wait to share hotwings with Gandhi and the dali lama in Hell and point out to them where they went wrong according to GST.

espringers I have said before I have a stronger faith than I do a reigious foundation. Yet I do not know what Luthern religion teaches that individuals like Ghandi or the Dalai Lama will rot in hell.

At least the one I "practice" does not, I can not speak to the one you claim to  "practice" .

You seem to know less and less about ones religion and faith as this conversation progresses.

You seem to be leaning more and more to multis childish snide little remarcks as this discussion brings out .... well whatever you said it does in you.

Perhaps you should stop before you make to many more inaccurate claims.

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 watch it gst, I think you'll be surprised how pro creationism it is

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 everything we are discussing pertaining to evolution and intelligent design/creationism is answered in that long interesting video I posted.

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multi, why don;t YOU answer the questions in your own words?

If you want I can "surf the web" and post all sorts of videos and articles by people with some pretty impressive letters behind their names as well.

But you see this is a discussion between people on here, so lets hear in your own words some answers to the questions I have had to ask in now more than one thread that YOU continue to refuse to answer.
 
Has your reliance on others science and beleifs diminished your ability to speak your own thoughts and answers?

Perhaps that is the differece between the evolutionist and creationists. One simply parrots findings in science papers and posts videos and colorful pictures while the other has to come to their own conclusions as to what their faith means. I can see where one would stagnant the mind and thought process of thinking on ones own!  

Good luck in your alligators have morals scientific theories multi, it seems to be a waste of time trying to get any of your own original thoughts out of you.

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 Back to the most relevant post in this thread- Mauser became "extinct" through the FBO evolutionary process, wherein his scientifically challenged, right-winged wacko rhetoric became irrelevant and he died-off.  That, or he was simply kicked-off the site for being a jack-wad? How can we expedite the process to facilitate the same end for GST? I get dizzy and dumber every time he hijacks a thread with his obsessive/compulsive crap. 

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Gst, what does Christianity tell u will happen to guys like Gandhi and the dali lama?

Born to hunt and fish... Forced to work!

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It's All Good Said:
 Back to the most relevant post in this thread- Mauser became "extinct" through the FBO evolutionary process, wherein his scientifically challenged, right-winged wacko rhetoric became irrelevant and he died-off.  That, or he was simply kicked-off the site for being a jack-wad? How can we expedite the process to facilitate the same end for GST? I get dizzy and dumber every time he hijacks a thread with his obsessive/compulsive crap. 

I can see where simple questions can make some guys heads spin.

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Simple? Minded? While we are playing ur game, explain to us how teaching a "nondenominational " creationism story in the classroom would go. Forget for a minute trays impossible since not all belief systems have one... But, it would literally take 5 minutes if it isn't tied to a particular faith. "Everything you see was created by a supreme being, sometime, someplace." Class dismissed.

Born to hunt and fish... Forced to work!

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WOW, great to see all the interest in God and the monkey god.  Surprising though that this thread still holds the attention of many.  I guess fishmahn is just blindly arrogant enough to provide the needed humor in life for all of us at times.

"Pascal's wager? Really? Debunked. It doesn't take into account all religions so it's a failed argument from the get go."

Hey!  We've got a guy here who's smarter than Blaise Pascal!  Really though his wager (and even more so the much simplified Rubicks gamble) was just an attempt using probability to address the issue in secular terms.  Nothing more, and nobody would or should use it as a driver for faith.  It wasn't intended to be so.

Old fishmahn or whatever he's now evolved to call himself is on a mission to impress and he's done a good job in one case.  He has once again massively impressed himself! 
Bottom line is, as many true scientists have discovered, the deeper you journey into science and the wonders of the universe the closer to God you find yourself.   The list of brilliant scientists who believe in God as our creator is long and deep.  Whether it be by divine guidance or direct action, it really doesn't make a difference in the big picture.  Man from a monkey??  There are tens of thousands of missing links, not just that one. 
I have no problem with the government schools not allowing faith/creationism being taught.  It should most assuredly be allowed to be openly talked about though.  But evolution monkey-man is simply a theory, and that is exactly how it should be presented.  How many times has both science presented theory and "fact" been later proven wrong??  But, let's take the Al Gore approach and try to tell everybody the debate is over!   A true sign of desperation!

 

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espringers Said:
Gst, what does Christianity tell u will happen to guys like Gandhi and the dali lama?

Ah the guy that will not answer questions regarding his own "practicing" of religion
 asks the questions.

Espringers I can only speak to the religion I "practice" which does not require one to be of that particular religion to benefit from Gods sacrafise of his Son on the cross .
 
As a small rural church we can not be piucky about who attends!  We even welcomed the Nazarene/multiple faith congregation from town when their church closed.

My faith as well tells me people like those you mention will have something more awaiting their eternal life that will be an appropriate response to the life they lived.

I have shared with you that my faith is likely much stronger than my religious ties, so why not share what the religion YOU" practice" says will happen to them and why you practice it?

I mean if you do not beleive in a creator espringers, exactly what about the Christian religion that you beleive is similar to mine as you claimed do you beleive is true enough to "practice" it and why do you bother?

I am being as direct and honest as I can in answering your questions espringers, how about returning the favor.

If not I am afraid it will be a one side discussion where we will learn little of your beleifs while you go on critisizing others for theirs.

This discussion will gain little insight unless that is your intent all along only to cast stones at others while closing your eyes to your own beleifs.

We have all realized multis responses in these threads comes from a hatred of religion, I thought perhaps yours would be a little something less vitreolic.

So espringers one question, why do you "practice" a religion if you do not beleive in a Creator?

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espringers Said:
Simple? Minded? While we are playing ur game, explain to us how teaching a "nondenominational " creationism story in the classroom would go. Forget for a minute trays impossible since not all belief systems have one... But, it would literally take 5 minutes if it isn't tied to a particular faith. "Everything you see was created by a supreme being, sometime, someplace." Class dismissed.

The first two words of your post seem to sum up what you beleive creationism is about. It only goes to show exactly how little you knowabout it.

So espringers why bother "praticing" a religion?

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Lol. U have no idea what I know about jack jack. And I ain't about to explain to you why I practice anything. I actually take insults on my intelligence by you as the ultimate compliment. Speaking of what little we know about our own faiths... Tell me again what Christianitys take is on folks and beliefs that don't seek salvation thru Christ and their ability to seek eternal peace as u put it.

Born to hunt and fish... Forced to work!

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And fwiw... This whole discussion about my beliefs was brought up by you when u started questioning what religion I practice and why. Short of explaining its Christianity and catholicism, to be more specific (which was obvious), I am not going to provide you any more info.... For the 20th time. And it ain't cause I am scared u will paint me in a corner. Every religion or belief system can have that done to it... Even by guys like u. Difference betwixt me and you is if someone questions or paints my belief system in a corner I can accept it cause its based on nothing more than personal faith in something that belongs to me and me alone and I would never expect anyone to share it down to each little specific. Also, I can accept that evolution is completely different than some belief in a higher powered that requires faith with little to no evidence at all.

Born to hunt and fish... Forced to work!

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My ? To u about Christianity and non believers in Christ being able to get to heaven was in response to u calling me out about not agreeing w every little tidbit my religion teaches. Newsflash... I clearly don't agree w everything catholcism and Christianity teach.... That being just one (of many) of the things. So, I asked that ? of u to see if u happen agree w everything Christianity teaches you.

Born to hunt and fish... Forced to work!

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espringers Said:
Lol. U have no idea what I know about jack jack. And I ain't about to explain to you why I practice anything. I actually take insults on my intelligence by you as the ultimate compliment. Speaking of what little we know about our own faiths... Tell me again what Christianitys take is on folks and beliefs that don't seek salvation thru Christ and their ability to seek eternal peace as u put it.

espringers I do not think I have "insulted your intelligence" have I? Perhaps it is some perceived notion on your part, but I actually think you are a pretty intelligent person.

Wrong alot of the time here on FBO, but still rather intelligent!

Now it appears since your questions about Ghandi and Dalai lama didn;t get the response you were seeking you are now going down another path.

Do you know what Ghandi or the Diala lama have accepted in their heart because you would sure be more clairvoiant than most if you do.

Espringers I think most everyone knows the answer to this new question so why do you bother asking in this discussion about faith based creationism?

Why not just explain why you practice a Christian religion as you claim, but yet choose to not beleive the portion about mans creation while apparently beleiving other parts?

What are you scared of? If you continue to go down this road of questioning you are, you will have to answer the questions posed of you to have any credibility.

I mean here I thought the discussion was about your position that those that beleive in Creation are denying one of the most widely accepted scientific theories known to man adn instead simply following a faith based ideal.

So let me narrow it down abit for you espringers. In the Christian religion you claim to "practice" if you do not beleive the part about the Creation of man, what other parts DO you believe and why?

I ask because most every other part that would allow a person to "practice" any Christian religion requires the same faith based ideal that is required to believe in Creationism.

So why is this faith acceptable to you in one portion of your religion you claim to  "practice" but not another?

espringers do you have any "scientific " proof of heaven? how about "scientific" proof that "practicing a religion gives one greater morals? So why then do you choose to "practice" a religion at all as you claim you do?

If you wish to have any credibility in demeaning others veiws on faith and creation espringers realize you will have to explain yourself a little better after claiming to "practice"  religion yourself.

So espringers why do you deny the creation part of the religion you claim to practice but continue to practice it?
 
Remember now, YOU are the one that started this whole thing with your claims you "practice" a Christian religion but choose not to beleive the Creation part.

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espringers Said:
And fwiw... This whole discussion about my beliefs was brought up by you when u started questioning what religion I practice and why. Short of explaining its Christianity and catholicism, to be more specific (which was obvious), I am not going to provide you any more info.... For the 20th time. And it ain't cause I am scared u will paint me in a corner. Every religion or belief system can have that done to it... Even by guys like u. Difference betwixt me and you is if someone questions or paints my belief system in a corner I can accept it cause its based on nothing more than personal faith in something that belongs to me and me alone and I would never expect anyone to share it down to each little specific. Also, I can accept that evolution is completely different than some belief in a higher powered that requires faith with little to no evidence at all.

espringers this was the post I made that compelled you to claim you "practice" the same religion I do.

Multi, espringers, I admittedly have not read every single post since page 8, just got in from seeding, but I did read enough to see you guys have no comprehension of what faith is.

I almost feel sorry for people that have to have something they can see, feel, touch, smell, measure, sample, analyze ect.... and can not beleive in something more than that itself.

Enjoy going thru life with the "faith" you and your soul will be nothing more than worm shit when you die.

multi hows your "scientific proof" alligators have morals coming?

Where is the question of what religion you practice?

Actually please point out where I have asked you specifically WHAT religion you practice.
I have repeatedly asked you why you "practice: a religion soley to see if you have any non science based faith allowed in practicing whatever religion it is your practice.

I am just curious as most religions DO require a fiaith for most all aspects of them and I am merely wondering what aspect of a religion you "practice" that does not require you to have the same faith that allows others to believe in Creationism.

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Neat

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they haven't accepted christ i know that much.  and the religion me and you both claim to practice teaches they can't get eternal salvation without accepting christ.  and i only brought that up in response to you nit picking the fact that i probably don't share every little belief that the catholic church teaches.  

the short answer to you about why i choose to practice anything is cause i feel the need to practice something and there isn't a church or belief system out there that teaches exactly what i believe.  i think there is a spiritual benefit to practicing by engaging in regular prayer or meditation and maybe taking time each week to hone your spirituality... in my case, i was raised going to church and praying regularly... so, i continue to do it.  even though i don't share every single belief with every person in that church...  including the story of creation as its told in the blble and in church and that a person must believe Jesus is the only way to eternal peace.  and i bet a lot of them feel the same way.  heck... i don't care if you believe anything, practice anything, etc... it makes no difference to me.  

i've never outright insulted your beliefs or religion.  i've just said its assinine to equate faith in a religion with faith in evolution... by the very definition of the word faith its such a ridiculous argument to make i don't even know why i continue to watch this train wreck and piss on the wreckage myself.  if you take that as an insult, so be it i guess.  

also... newsflash... based on some of the posts above... the catholic church has accepted that evolution is real.  somebody even told a story about how he was told by a priest that the creation story is/was just a story.  do you still cling to the idea that its still just scientific mumbo jumbo?  

Born to hunt and fish... Forced to work!

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espringers Said:
My ? To u about Christianity and non believers in Christ being able to get to heaven was in response to u calling me out about not agreeing w every little tidbit my religion teaches. Newsflash... I clearly don't agree w everything catholcism and Christianity teach.... That being just one (of many) of the things. So, I asked that ? of u to see if u happen agree w everything Christianity teaches you.

espringers I have said before in these type threads my "beleifs" are tied more closely to a faith than any one particular religion.

I was brought up and confirmed Lutheran.

I do not recall "calling you out" on anything, merely asking a question out of curiousity of how one can have the faith required to accept "practicing" a religion in one area of it you may choose but deny others that same faith in their beleifs in another area. 

If there was any "calling out" done in this thread it was done by you questioning others faith in creation.

My question has little/less to do with your beleifs regarding YOUR religion as it does in your opinion of how others beleive in theirs. 

I care little what you choose to beleive or not beleive or have faith in regarding your religion right up until you begin critisizing others for making the same personal choice you demand to be allowed to make in what they choose to beleive. 

Begin to get the picture? 

So if you wish to critisize mine and others thought process on why I choose to have faith or beleive in Creation, man up and answer questions on your thought process in why you choose to beleive in what you do as well.
 

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no. 

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espringers where have I ever equated my faith to science?

I have merely used the words "faith" in ones science in response to science using words such as possible, believe, likelyhood ect....

Don't those words require some sort of faith simply from their own definitions?????????

I beleive I have made it clear the difference between your coments and multis in what would be considered "insulting" ones faith or religion.

I rarely equate my faith to a particular religion outside of to share what I was raised and confirmed in.

I am now curious though as to who you beleive you are speaking with when you still pray?

Perhaps you can pray for answers to help understand my ability to beleive in the evolution of things while still believing in a higher power that "created" mankid in his image.

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espringers please show where I have ever claimed the science behind evolution is "mumbo jumbo"?

I have shared a couple of links where sceince itself has shown a "likelyhood" that accepted "beleif"s and others "faith" in them may "possibly" be wrong.

I have a great deal of respect for science and I strongly beleive we are only in sciences infancy in what we really know.

My beleif is that those that choose to beleive todays sceince is all knowing and has all the right answers because they have a sceintific background are arrogant fools who ultimately stand in the way of the thinking that will expand the knowledge science provides.

I simply choose to not arrogantly beleive man and sceince knows all.

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