measure 5 phone call

just got a call from steve adair and now im on a live conference with a measure five meeting?  whats the deal?

gst's picture
gst
Offline
GREENHORN
Joined: 3/12/09

The supporters of this measure make this claim all the time.

odocoileus Said:

 This measure wont be headed by out of state interests, and the money will not leave the state. The governor, ag commissioner and attorney general will make up the commission and will approve every single penny that is spent.

. These programs will be approved by the commission (governor, ag commissioner, attorney general). You can guarantee they will consider the opinions of agriculture and energy interests when approving any program or approving funding.

 

Okay, lets look at the actual language of the proposed amendment that will change our constitution.



3. There is created a clean water, wildlife and parks commission that shall be comprised of the governor, attorney general and agriculture commissioner. The commission shall govern the fund in accord with this section. Any money deposited in the clean water, wildlife, and parks fund is hereby appropriated to the commission on a continuing basis for expenditure upon those programs selected by the commission as provided in this section. The commission shall keep accurate records of all financial transactions performed under this section.

4. The commission may employ staff and enter into public and private contracts as may be necessary to operate the fund. The salaries of employees and other expenditures for the operation of the fund must be paid out of the fund. No more than three percent of the funds available in a given year may be paid out of the fund to operate the fund.

5. The commission must allocate no less than seventy-five percent nor more than ninety percent of the revenue deposited in the fund on an annual basis. Ten percent of earnings of the fund shall be reserved and transferred on an annual basis to the trust established in this section."

Even the supporters have now admitted it will be at least $150,000,000.00 despite theri previous claims of only 75 million.
So lets do the math and see just how much of this 150 million the industrial commission will have a say over.


No more than 10% can be “allocated” into the trust by the commission annually. That leaves 87% if you consider the 3% “allocated” for paying employees and “other expenditures”. If there is $150,000,000.00 deposited into the fund in a given year, roughly $130,000,000.00 (after 10% to the fund and 3% to salaries) of which roughly $112,000,000.00 (75% of 150 million ) is mandated to be "allocated towards expenditures" or how most of us refer to it as being "spent".



And the commission MUST approve WHATEVER these funds will be "expended" on or be in violation of the constitution.
So out of $130 million the commission only really has any say on about $18 million dollars worth of programs, the rest they MUST "allocate for expenditure".



Even if the commission believes these are flawed programs and does not agree with them, they "MUST allocate no less than 75% of the revenues deposited in the fund on an annual basis" or be in violation of the constitution. It is there in black and white.



By the way what is 3% of $150,000,000.00 that will be paid in salaries and expenses every year. $4,500,000.00 Looks like somebody is going to get a pretty good paycheck.

gst's picture
gst
Offline
GREENHORN
Joined: 3/12/09

Plainsman Said:

Plains, isn't it time we go through the sponsors again?

Simple scare tactics.  Just like I told gst I was hunting before you guys were loading your diapers, but you still try to paint me as a none hunter.  Your special interest groups simply hates other special interest groups.  Simple as that.  Your here to protect those special interests.  Not as a sportsman, but as a business man.  You could give a rats behind about free lance hunting.  Your here to talk the gullible into shafting themselves. 

Plaisnamn how many hunters enjoy the opportunity of hunting on private lands owned and managed by this "special interest group" you claim "hates" them?

the vast majority of sportsmen know better.

Nice try at the divisive rhetoric. Sounds kind of like Obama talking about Ferguspn Missouri.

You are the Al Sharpton/Jesse Jackson of FBO and Nodak.


gst's picture
gst
Offline
GREENHORN
Joined: 3/12/09

Plainsman Said:

Plains, isn't it time we go through the sponsors again?

Simple scare tactics.  Just like I told gst I was hunting before you guys were loading your diapers, but you still try to paint me as a none hunter.  Your special interest groups simply hates other special interest groups.  Simple as that.  Your here to protect those special interests.  Not as a sportsman, but as a business man.  You could give a rats behind about free lance hunting.  Your here to talk the gullible into shafting themselves. 

From another thread.

Plainsman Said:
gst your basing your thoughts on your small corner of the world.  The rest of the state isn't like your dream world.  I am happy every time I hear you say you let people on.  I know other farmers who now restrict their land to people who can pay, or people who can do things for them.  They let their attorney hunt, the car dealer, the banker, etc. 

Your rather young gst
.  I have been around 66 years and I can tell you it has changed.  The change has been slow and the dim witted have not even noticed it.  You can't see the change in a single year, but you can see it from one ten year period to another.  Compared to when I started hunting in the late 1950's I can hardly recognize North Dakota now. 

You may be able to snow some of the younger folks gst, but I was hunting before you were loading your diapers.

plainsman you play the "older and wiser" than you card too often.

I am 51 years old and indeed things have "changed".

The difference here is I don;t think I am smarter than the "dim witted" people out there that have adapted to the changes that ALWAYS occur.

Dinosauers are old too plainsman.

Plaisnamn answer this one question.

The G&F gve out 160,000 deer tags just a short time ago. More than any time in the history of managed hunting in ND.

Where were a vast majority of those deer shot? private or public land?

guywhofishes's picture
guywhofishes
Offline
GREENHORN
Joined: 5/4/07

The "Vote No on Measure 5" mailer I received yesterday says "ND Farmers and Ranchers know best how to conserve our resources" or some such phrase.

Q: What are farmers and ranchers in the Red River Valley doing to conserve the land, our hunting opportunities, our fishing opportunities?

It also says that the supporters of the bill don't really care about conservation - they care about the money and control it affords them. Reminded me of Red River Valley farmers attitude.

You guys out central and west have no idea what "caring farmers" are capable of once they pass a certain threshold of habitat destruction. There's a point at which habitat conditions are so miserable that they just quit even remotely considering conservation and move into "farm every square foot and manage water for farming period" mode and it's Katy bar the doors.

Sure, once you get 20-30 miles west it starts to moderate and the vast majority of farmers still care about habitat. But what's going on out here IS moving west - don't kid yourselves.

gst - before you have a heart attack, send me a PM before you come east next time and I'll take you on a local tour that will make you think we're driving around in Iowa, not ND.

What's the point of my post? I guess my point is that here in the east, where a lot of voters live, the land has been rendered "habitatless" and we could use targeted programs to generate some habitat to support local activities for outdoorsman. Outside of measure 5... what do the farmers and ranchers of ND have to offer voters in the eastern part of ND as an alternative if we stand with them and vote NO?

Access to their land if we drive the hour or five it takes to get to what you centrals and westerners take for granted?

People in places like Fargo need "after work" or half-day opportunities too. Right now we have very very VERY few. At least #5 would produce a glimmer of hope. Without targeted spending we're SOL for sure.

So... without running to the "hey - you're a farmer basher!" well, I'd appreciate some concrete evidence that voting NO would improve our lot out east.

 

Hardwaterman's picture
Hardwaterman
Offline
GREENHORN
Joined: 11/6/02

HERE IS THE REALITY OF THIS THAT CRIES OF HYPCRICY! THOSE OPPOSED CRY ABOUT OUTSIDE SPECIAL INTERESTS ALL THE WHILE USING OUTSIDE THE STATE SPECIAL INTEREST MONEY IN ATTACKING THE MEASURE!!!! 

In my lifetime I have seen fence row to fence row farming and the return of CRP and game to the landscape.Now we face again the prosepect of fence row to fence row again! Sportsman are our own worst enemy in that we fail to look forward and focus to much on the now!

Hardwaterman's picture
Hardwaterman
Offline
GREENHORN
Joined: 11/6/02

Debate the merits of the measure if you can do so without the big bad wolf scare tactics. Try that and maybe you will convince someone to support your position. Keep crying wolf and the voters are turning off volume!!!!

In my lifetime I have seen fence row to fence row farming and the return of CRP and game to the landscape.Now we face again the prosepect of fence row to fence row again! Sportsman are our own worst enemy in that we fail to look forward and focus to much on the now!

gst's picture
gst
Offline
GREENHORN
Joined: 3/12/09

Hardwaterman Said:
HERE IS THE REALITY OF THIS THAT CRIES OF HYPCRICY! THOSE OPPOSED CRY ABOUT OUTSIDE SPECIAL INTERESTS ALL THE WHILE USING OUTSIDE THE STATE SPECIAL INTEREST MONEY IN ATTACKING THE MEASURE!!!! 

please provide something showing this. I am truly curious, I have seen the Sec. of States report on those supporting this measure that show 96% of the funding has came from out side interests, please provide your source of information.

Meelosh's picture
Meelosh
Offline
GREENHORN
Joined: 5/26/06

Guy, of all the reasons I have given why I don't support the measure, the one that stands out the most to me is I just don't feel it is the governments job to fund private organizations, npo's or otherwise. The reason anyone or any entity pays taxes is supposed to be for services. Part of the money would certainly go toward services I would enjoy and support, and without a doubt, part would go to services I would not support and I am not ok with that. If they come back with measure, even if it asks for the same amount of money, but they lay out exactly how the money will be spent, I will support it. I am quite disappointed in the writers of the measure. They left far too much gray area. They could have easily done better and the measure would have passed with flying colors.

Is it impious to weigh goose music and art in the same scales? I think not, because the true hunter is merely a noncreative artist. Who painted the first picture on a bone in the caves of France? A hunter. Who alone in our modern life so thrills to the sight of living beauty that he will endure hunger and thirst and cold to feed his eye upon it? The hunter. Who wrote the great hunter's poem about the sheer wonder of the wind, the hail, and the snow, the stars, the lightnings, and the clouds, the lion, the deer, and the wild goat, the raven, the hawk, and the eagle, and above all the eulogy to the horse? Job, one of the great dramatic artists of all time. Poets sing and hunters scale the mountains primarily for one and the same reason--the thrill of beauty. Critics write and hunters outwit their game primarily for one and the same reason--to reduce that beauty to possession. The differences are largely matters of degree, consciousness, and that sly arbiter of the classification of human activities, language. If, then, we can live without goose music, we may as well do away with stars, or sunsets, or Iliads. But the point is we would be fools to do away with any of them. 

Hardwaterman's picture
Hardwaterman
Offline
GREENHORN
Joined: 11/6/02

guy good post, and accurate. Friends daughter has a youth deer tag, really hard to find any habitat areas to teach her in reasonable proximity to where they live. When she gets out of school and you drive to that area hunting time is very minimal.

Will this measure if passed change that? Possibly I know 10 years ago we did have habitat via Gov funded a lot closer and better!!

In my lifetime I have seen fence row to fence row farming and the return of CRP and game to the landscape.Now we face again the prosepect of fence row to fence row again! Sportsman are our own worst enemy in that we fail to look forward and focus to much on the now!

yelowjackt's picture
yelowjackt
Offline
GREENHORN
Joined: 8/31/05

odocoileus Said:

I am voting yes. There has to be more of a balance between development and conservation. I am born and raised in North Dakota and have been around along enough to realize that this state has gone through tremendous change in the last 5-10 years. I never in my almost 30 years of life imagined North Dakota could ever change so much. The decisions that are made in these times of huge economic development will have long lasting effects on the future, heritage, and of the quality of life in North Dakota. Development is not going to slow down for years and years to come. This measure is a great chance to provide funding for a wide variety of conservation/recreation projects, and will not destroy agriculture or oil and gas development. This measure wont be headed by out of state interests, and the money will not leave the state. The governor, ag commissioner and attorney general will make up the commission and will approve every single penny that is spent.

One of the biggest things this measure could fund is voluntary conservation programs, which will put money into the pockets of landowners, while enhancing habitat and promoting soil health, protecting wetlands, etc. These types of conservation programs could be designed by the state, rather than rely on the federal government. The state has lost over 2 million acres of CRP, and in ten years the decline will be even more substantial. Many landowners are rejected when applying for CRP these days, and obviously will farm that land because they don’t get incentives for keeping it out of production.  There needs to be a way to incentivize landowners to keep land out of production and still maintain productive farmland and ranchland. Measure 5 can do this, and landowners will benefit. These programs will be approved by the commission (governor, ag commissioner, attorney general). You can guarantee they will consider the opinions of agriculture and energy interests when approving any program or approving funding.
 

 Fishingbuddy members, If you are concerned with future outdoor opportunities within this great state, I recommend for you to do your own research on this measure. As hunters, if you think wildlife populations are going to be able to sustain the huge loss in habitat in the next 20 years, think again. We need to be able to replace a program like CRP, and this fund can do it. Yes, there is the OHF, but simply put, it isnt enough. There  is a lot of false information being spoken about this measure. Everyone has an opinion, and more important everyone has a vote. Decide for yourself. Your kids will appreciate it.

Link to amendment:

http://www.cleanwaterwildlifeparks.org/amendment-text

You state your case well, however they whole issue with this is “could”, or “may” or “might” there is nothing stating exactly what the funds are going to be used for…if there was any type of guarantee that all the “allocated” monies would be going towards a CRP type program then this measure would pass with flying colors…buts it’s not worded that way, WHY???  Because the supporters of the measure what to allocate the funds to whatever they see fit…and there is not one soul on here that can honestly say that in today’s political environment there would not be misuse of  allocations especially when dealing with the amount of funds in question…I am fairly certain that 90-95% of FBO and a lot of the hunters / conservationists in the state would agree that a CRP/PLOTS type program that reimburses landowners and allows public hunting or habit creation is what ND needs…so why not just right the measure to support that instead of leaving the allocation open ended???


"Colorless green ideas sleep furiously"
...People who don’t understand sarcasm are awesome !?!
Jig-em-Up Guide Service | Grand Forks, ND | 701-739-9198 jig-em-up-guide-service.com

 

 

guywhofishes's picture
guywhofishes
Offline
GREENHORN
Joined: 5/4/07

I agree meelosh - I don't want to vote yes for the same reasons/concerns.

But I never hear positive alternatives voiced by the opposition - just how bad this bill is. I never hear alternative ideas spoken - just vote this down and continue to watch this state slowly decay into something resembling IA or southern MN.... once outdoorsman paradises themselves.


 

Meelosh's picture
Meelosh
Offline
GREENHORN
Joined: 5/26/06

guywhofishes Said:
I agree meelosh - I don't want to vote ye for same reasons.

But I never hear positive alternatives voiced by the opposition - just how bad this bill is. I never hear alternative ideas spoken - just vote this down and continue to watch this state slowly decay into something resembling IA or southern MN.... once outdoorsman paradises themselves.

I asked Monson why they didn't just write a simple bill asking for X dollars for a state run CRP program. Wasn't a very clear answer he gave me.

Is it impious to weigh goose music and art in the same scales? I think not, because the true hunter is merely a noncreative artist. Who painted the first picture on a bone in the caves of France? A hunter. Who alone in our modern life so thrills to the sight of living beauty that he will endure hunger and thirst and cold to feed his eye upon it? The hunter. Who wrote the great hunter's poem about the sheer wonder of the wind, the hail, and the snow, the stars, the lightnings, and the clouds, the lion, the deer, and the wild goat, the raven, the hawk, and the eagle, and above all the eulogy to the horse? Job, one of the great dramatic artists of all time. Poets sing and hunters scale the mountains primarily for one and the same reason--the thrill of beauty. Critics write and hunters outwit their game primarily for one and the same reason--to reduce that beauty to possession. The differences are largely matters of degree, consciousness, and that sly arbiter of the classification of human activities, language. If, then, we can live without goose music, we may as well do away with stars, or sunsets, or Iliads. But the point is we would be fools to do away with any of them. 

Hardwaterman's picture
Hardwaterman
Offline
GREENHORN
Joined: 11/6/02

gst one more time simply claiming that because they employee someone in ND but are domiciled outside of ND does not make them a ND interest. Which is what the national farm groups are, the oil companies etc....  Because using the same logic DU and others also have employees in the state which would change things up, but again this is simply side tracking.

So the challenge to you is simple give us a list of percentage of ND domiciled business and organizations contribution levels. Money given to the Chamber from out of state is still out of state money, same as money given from out of state to state run farm org.

In my lifetime I have seen fence row to fence row farming and the return of CRP and game to the landscape.Now we face again the prosepect of fence row to fence row again! Sportsman are our own worst enemy in that we fail to look forward and focus to much on the now!

Fritz the Cat's picture
Fritz the Cat
Offline
Joined: 5/24/08

gst said,

By the way what is 3% of $150,000,000.00 that will be paid in salaries and expenses every year. $4,500,000.00 Looks like somebody is going to get a pretty good paycheck.
 

Holy crap.

One of the sticklers with the Outdoor Heritage Fund is the panel squashed anything that smacked of creating jobs for office jocks and pencil pushers.

One request came in for a Farm Bill Biologist. What in the hell is that? I believe that is what the rest of know as a lobbyist.

And I'm not placated by:
 

The governor, ag commissioner and attorney general will make up the commission and will approve every single penny that is spent.. These programs will be approved by the commission (governor, ag commissioner, attorney general).



Remember........Joe Satrom ran for Governor and now he is a sponsor of this and works for Ducks Unlimited. The fix would be in and what a fix we would all be in for the next 25 years.

SlimBlundt's picture
SlimBlundt
Offline
Joined: 11/1/05

Odie/gst/Plainsman

I'm all for putting lots and lots of money into conservation, hunting, fishing, etc. this initiative is so loosely construed I could throw a baseball through it. We're just throwing a huge pile of money down and calling it "conservation".

the committee that decides where ALL the money goes is made up of just 3 people. 

"But they're elected." - yes, and their powers are limited and enumerated.

"there's a citizens committe!" - made up of people appointed by the commission. Also, this citizens committee has no authority. They only make recommendations.

"but they're appointed at the recommendation of the head of G&F, Parks & Rec, etc!" - also people appointed or hired by the same people that make up the commission.

So 3 people control all of it and have the final say over more than $100,000,000/yr.


The language in the bill is extremely vague and at best states that funds CAN be used for expanding hunting and fishing access. There are almost no restraints on what the money is spent on, as long as they call it "conservation".
 
Do I trust that Jack Dalrymple, Wayne Steinhjem, and Doug Goehring would be responsible stewards of these funds? For the most part, yes. But who will be in charge 20 years from now? 50 years? You're talking about amending the constitution.

The boys are back! www.nodakangler.com

Hardwaterman's picture
Hardwaterman
Offline
GREENHORN
Joined: 11/6/02

yellow jacket I really do not think you understand how this works, they cannot before the measure is passed declare where any money is going to be spent, same as the current Heritage fund.

One thing is certain though that there will not be any type of program like CRP or full funding for matching fed dollars on conservation programs without this passing! If you are satisfied with the current direction of habitat, water shed issues, then so be it. If not, then you have to look at this as it really is, a vehicle to be able to fund and direct programs and efforts to retain habitat, keep waters clean, and preserve or restore areas that have already been damaged!

In my lifetime I have seen fence row to fence row farming and the return of CRP and game to the landscape.Now we face again the prosepect of fence row to fence row again! Sportsman are our own worst enemy in that we fail to look forward and focus to much on the now!

Meelosh's picture
Meelosh
Offline
GREENHORN
Joined: 5/26/06

Hardwaterman Said:
yellow jacket I really do not think you understand how this works, they cannot before the measure is passed declare where any money is going to be spent, same as the current Heritage fund.

One thing is certain though that there will not be any type of program like CRP or full funding for matching fed dollars on conservation programs without this passing! If you are satisfied with the current direction of habitat, water shed issues, then so be it. If not, then you have to look at this as it really is, a vehicle to be able to fund and direct programs and efforts to retain habitat, keep waters clean, and preserve or restore areas that have already been damaged!

Of course I am not satisfied with the direction conservation is heading but that is not the point. As much as I enjoy the outdoors, as a voter, I have to look after the best interests of the state as a whole. With my view of how a government should function, this bill is pretty much the opposite of that. I'm not going to hand someone a seemingly blank check for something I'm not comfortable with.

Is it impious to weigh goose music and art in the same scales? I think not, because the true hunter is merely a noncreative artist. Who painted the first picture on a bone in the caves of France? A hunter. Who alone in our modern life so thrills to the sight of living beauty that he will endure hunger and thirst and cold to feed his eye upon it? The hunter. Who wrote the great hunter's poem about the sheer wonder of the wind, the hail, and the snow, the stars, the lightnings, and the clouds, the lion, the deer, and the wild goat, the raven, the hawk, and the eagle, and above all the eulogy to the horse? Job, one of the great dramatic artists of all time. Poets sing and hunters scale the mountains primarily for one and the same reason--the thrill of beauty. Critics write and hunters outwit their game primarily for one and the same reason--to reduce that beauty to possession. The differences are largely matters of degree, consciousness, and that sly arbiter of the classification of human activities, language. If, then, we can live without goose music, we may as well do away with stars, or sunsets, or Iliads. But the point is we would be fools to do away with any of them. 

johnr's picture
johnr
Offline
GREENHORN
Joined: 2/18/04

I am voting no.

I dont believe we need any more money held hostage by any group, well intended or not.

Of course I live 5 miles form my hunting grounds, and am lucky enough to have some close farm friends with good area's to hunt. That being said, I was once a Fargo guy, and would still be voting no if I still was.

Neat

Hardwaterman's picture
Hardwaterman
Offline
GREENHORN
Joined: 11/6/02

meelosh fair enough, I may disagree with you but on merits of the measure not the boogey man tactics of gst and Fritz!!!!

In my lifetime I have seen fence row to fence row farming and the return of CRP and game to the landscape.Now we face again the prosepect of fence row to fence row again! Sportsman are our own worst enemy in that we fail to look forward and focus to much on the now!

guywhofishes's picture
guywhofishes
Offline
GREENHORN
Joined: 5/4/07

OK, with all these opinions voiced - will it pass?

McFeely feels (ba ha ha) that it will.

 

yelowjackt's picture
yelowjackt
Offline
GREENHORN
Joined: 8/31/05

Hardwaterman Said:
yellow jacket I really do not think you understand how this works, they cannot before the measure is passed declare where any money is going to be spent, same as the current Heritage fund.

One thing is certain though that there will not be any type of program like CRP or full funding for matching fed dollars on conservation programs without this passing! If you are satisfied with the current direction of habitat, water shed issues, then so be it. If not, then you have to look at this as it really is, a vehicle to be able to fund and direct programs and efforts to retain habitat, keep waters clean, and preserve or restore areas that have already been damaged!

no I get it...and no I am not satisfied with the status quo. This measure has potential to be extremely beneficial to ND however it also has the potential to allow non ND interests a larger foot hold in our state. I am just not sure I want to take that gamble with amount of monies in question…is it my fault, yes for not being more active in the measure or measure writing process, but it is what it is and I myself am not comfortable with the measure.

In my opinion the State needs to step up and take the initiative in these matters and establish some options…with our $1.6 billion surplus why can’t more funds be allocated to NDGF and more lucrative programs like PLOTS or a state funded CRP type program…if this state is really concerned about conservation and our future then this needs to occur. I feel our legislators should be taking these matters into consideration without the need of a measure…programs and wording could be more specific and funds could be allocated in more reasonable increments…will this happen NO…but it is what I would like to see


"Colorless green ideas sleep furiously"
...People who don’t understand sarcasm are awesome !?!
Jig-em-Up Guide Service | Grand Forks, ND | 701-739-9198 jig-em-up-guide-service.com

 

 

Meelosh's picture
Meelosh
Offline
GREENHORN
Joined: 5/26/06

Dunno guy. It is one of those feel good measures and has a name that rolls off the tongue easily. If it passes, I hope the promises made by the supporters are kept.

Is it impious to weigh goose music and art in the same scales? I think not, because the true hunter is merely a noncreative artist. Who painted the first picture on a bone in the caves of France? A hunter. Who alone in our modern life so thrills to the sight of living beauty that he will endure hunger and thirst and cold to feed his eye upon it? The hunter. Who wrote the great hunter's poem about the sheer wonder of the wind, the hail, and the snow, the stars, the lightnings, and the clouds, the lion, the deer, and the wild goat, the raven, the hawk, and the eagle, and above all the eulogy to the horse? Job, one of the great dramatic artists of all time. Poets sing and hunters scale the mountains primarily for one and the same reason--the thrill of beauty. Critics write and hunters outwit their game primarily for one and the same reason--to reduce that beauty to possession. The differences are largely matters of degree, consciousness, and that sly arbiter of the classification of human activities, language. If, then, we can live without goose music, we may as well do away with stars, or sunsets, or Iliads. But the point is we would be fools to do away with any of them. 

guywhofishes's picture
guywhofishes
Offline
GREENHORN
Joined: 5/4/07

Meelosh Said:
Dunno guy. It is one of those feel good measures and has a name that rolls off the tongue easily. If it passes, I hope the promises made by the supporters are kept.

silly boy, like that'll ever happen

 

Hardwaterman's picture
Hardwaterman
Offline
GREENHORN
Joined: 11/6/02

yellow how does it give a bigger foot hold? Since none of the money can go to DU or anyone to buy land for them how does that increase their foothold? If having a conservation org like DU come in using its experts in restoring a prairie area or wetland as increasing a foothold that is simply buying into the BS crap gst is spewing!!!

If them getting paid for doing some of the work is your concern well they are experts and have highly trained people. So why not use them? See to me when you critically break things down you can get past much of the BS hype from the anti side.

So to be clear no money can be used outside of ND, no private org can use the money to buy land for themselves. Not sure how that increases a foothold in ND?

In my lifetime I have seen fence row to fence row farming and the return of CRP and game to the landscape.Now we face again the prosepect of fence row to fence row again! Sportsman are our own worst enemy in that we fail to look forward and focus to much on the now!

Meelosh's picture
Meelosh
Offline
GREENHORN
Joined: 5/26/06

guywhofishes Said:

Meelosh Said:
Dunno guy. It is one of those feel good measures and has a name that rolls off the tongue easily. If it passes, I hope the promises made by the supporters are kept.

silly boy, like that'll ever happen

Such a cynic guy. At what age will I become as jaded as you?

Is it impious to weigh goose music and art in the same scales? I think not, because the true hunter is merely a noncreative artist. Who painted the first picture on a bone in the caves of France? A hunter. Who alone in our modern life so thrills to the sight of living beauty that he will endure hunger and thirst and cold to feed his eye upon it? The hunter. Who wrote the great hunter's poem about the sheer wonder of the wind, the hail, and the snow, the stars, the lightnings, and the clouds, the lion, the deer, and the wild goat, the raven, the hawk, and the eagle, and above all the eulogy to the horse? Job, one of the great dramatic artists of all time. Poets sing and hunters scale the mountains primarily for one and the same reason--the thrill of beauty. Critics write and hunters outwit their game primarily for one and the same reason--to reduce that beauty to possession. The differences are largely matters of degree, consciousness, and that sly arbiter of the classification of human activities, language. If, then, we can live without goose music, we may as well do away with stars, or sunsets, or Iliads. But the point is we would be fools to do away with any of them. 

Dick McFiddleton's picture
Dick McFiddleton
Offline
Joined: 4/9/14

 The measure wont pass this time around.  The oil revenues arent going anywhere though so if it doesnt pass something similar will be brought to the table down the road.  This bill will waste so much money on equipment and buildings for endless projects  that it will be ridiculous.  the plots program is the best program i have ever seen for hunters in this state.  vastly increased funding to the plots program is what we need imo.  The prices of corn have dropped dramatically also so things can change in a quick hurry out there.  I think we need to vote no and work on getting more money into the plots program.  Everything else is up to mother nature and economics.

yelowjackt's picture
yelowjackt
Offline
GREENHORN
Joined: 8/31/05

Hardwaterman Said:
yellow how does it give a bigger foot hold? Since none of the money can go to DU or anyone to buy land for them how does that increase their foothold? If having a conservation org like DU come in using its experts in restoring a prairie area or wetland as increasing a foothold that is simply buying into the BS crap gst is spewing!!!

If them getting paid for doing some of the work is your concern well they are experts and have highly trained people. So why not use them? See to me when you critically break things down you can get past much of the BS hype from the anti side.

So to be clear no money can be used outside of ND, no private org can use the money to buy land for themselves. Not sure how that increases a foothold in ND?

Ok…let’s say things play out the way they're supposed to... how do you see the monies being spent?


"Colorless green ideas sleep furiously"
...People who don’t understand sarcasm are awesome !?!
Jig-em-Up Guide Service | Grand Forks, ND | 701-739-9198 jig-em-up-guide-service.com

 

 

eyexer's picture
eyexer
Offline
GREENHORN
Joined: 2/28/07

yea it's a pile of money and some unknown issues.  but it's that way with most initiatives.  All I know is if something isn't done hunting will all but cease to exist for all but the chosen few and landowners.  those opposed to this measure have done absolutely nothing to eliminate these issues aside from some far to small token attempt at making people think they're doing something.  farmers/landowners have put themselves in a pretty tight spot now with the elminiation of hunting access.  people are now seeing this for what it was.  support of ag is going down the toilet, especially with oil now fast becoming the number one business/job provider in the state.  Farmers used to be able to make a solid argument about their needs.  But they now all have new trucks, new equipment, farm hoards of land, have fewer and fewer employees and get all the tax breaks known to man.  Plus hoards of federal subsistence and safety nets.  The general population has decided it's enough. 

 

TommyBoy's picture
TommyBoy
Offline
Joined: 8/6/13

 Can somebody please tell me how to vote on this measure?  

I don't have time to read through all of this nor do I have an opinion 

 

yelowjackt's picture
yelowjackt
Offline
GREENHORN
Joined: 8/31/05

TommyBoy Said:
 Can somebody please tell me how to vote on this measure?  

I don't have time to read through all of this nor do I have an opinion 

you can vote YES  or you can vote NO ...really isn't any more complicated than that...


"Colorless green ideas sleep furiously"
...People who don’t understand sarcasm are awesome !?!
Jig-em-Up Guide Service | Grand Forks, ND | 701-739-9198 jig-em-up-guide-service.com

 

 

Pages