Deer Lottery - Results available

Pages

101 posts / 0 new
Last post
Davis Schmidt's picture
Davis Schmidt
Online
LEGEND
Joined: 12/8/08

> Hi Davis,

> I was forwarded your email from our enforcement division to help answer some questions you had. I'm out on vacation and will be back on Wednesday. I have asked our assistant chief, Casey Anderson, to get back to you on Monday as I don't have access to our stats while I'm out. But I can tell you from memory that over the last several years, while deer gun licenses have been very low, that we have had some units where over 75% of the licenses allocated for a unit have been consumed by gratis licenses. While I know some get frustrated by this, the department is following state law. If someone owns  or leases 150 acres, they are eligible for a gratis license. A family isn't eligible to receive several gratis licenses for a single quarter. The only way that would be legal is if all were listed as owners and they had enough acreage to cover all owners. The department does random checks each year on gratis but it has grown into a big job for our enforcement division folks. We try to be as customer friendly as possible while still making sure people are following the gratis laws ensuring opportunities aren't being taken away from the general lottery by someone who isn't legally deserving of a gratis license. Sorry to ramble on but wanted to give you some insight on your questions. Take care and don't hesitate to contact me directly in the future.

> Jeb Williams, Chief

> Wildlife Division 

 

 

When I hear from Casey Anderson I'll post it here as well.

Don't practice until you get it right, practice until you can't get it wrong.

NorseDakota's picture
NorseDakota
Offline
AMATEUR
Joined: 1/7/16

Wait a minute I thought they had to have at least 160 acres IN THIER NAME. Hell yes people will put acreage in their relatives names in order to get buck tags every year. It needs to be checked up on closely in these long two months, entered into the computers and then any new apps checked closely every year.

Davis Schmidt's picture
Davis Schmidt
Online
LEGEND
Joined: 12/8/08

Davis,

 

The Gratis Law is lenthy and complex so I am sending the location of the law (ND Century Code 20.1-03-11) so you can review for yourself.  How or why people are selling, trading, leasing land is not something I am going to speculate on.  The units you are talking about I assume are 2 of the below three.  Those are 2016 numbers.  You are correct when you assumed that low deer numbers had something to do with it.  Statewide deer numbers and tag numbers have been low the last number of years.  The number of gratis license issued has dropped from a high of 15,804 (2010) to 13,368 (2016).   In 2010 there were 116,775 licenses available in the lotteries and in 2016 there were 49,000 licenses. 

Total Licenses available and Gratis license granted in units 2C, 2D, and 2E in 2016

2C 800 avail 730 Gratis 91%

2D 300 avail 269 Gratis 90%

2E 700 Avail 695 Gratis 99%

 

This is sort of what I expected to hear regarding Gratis.  I will ask about the lengthy lottery process, and in my next post I will try to find and quote the Century Code.

 

Don't practice until you get it right, practice until you can't get it wrong.

Davis Schmidt's picture
Davis Schmidt
Online
LEGEND
Joined: 12/8/08

Don't practice until you get it right, practice until you can't get it wrong.

Davis Schmidt's picture
Davis Schmidt
Online
LEGEND
Joined: 12/8/08

Don't practice until you get it right, practice until you can't get it wrong.

NDSportsman.'s picture
NDSportsman.
Offline
GREENHORN
Joined: 7/13/03

NorseDakota wrote:

Wait a minute I thought they had to have at least 160 acres IN THIER NAME. Hell yes people will put acreage in their relatives names in order to get buck tags every year. It needs to be checked up on closely in these long two months, entered into the computers and then any new apps checked closely every year.

They changed it to 150 acres a couple years ago because when they started checking closely they noticed some of the quarters are not exactly 160 acres. So our wise legislatures decided to reduce the acreage requirement rather then increase it! 

measure-it's picture
measure-it
Offline
GREENHORN
Joined: 1/27/09

This whole gratis thing has gotten way out of hand!  When gratis tags account for 91 % of allotted tags in some units, there's something totally wrong with the system (pronghorn tags are even worse!).  I know there'll be some landowners that don't like my comment, but this is totally insane.  Now look at the moose and elk gratis deal--many landowners get more than 1 tag in a lifetime--some get 1 a year!  It's time the ND legislators get some stones, and tell these landowners that this just ain't gonna continue.  When they post every square inch of their land, hunt outside of their property and unit, don't grant anyone access to hunt their acreage, and then have the gall to ask for depredation help,fencing, and funds from the NDGF Dept. I say to tell them to go fly a kite. We've been kissing these guys' hinders for far too long.  TIME FOR A MAJOR CHANGE! 

Davis Schmidt's picture
Davis Schmidt
Online
LEGEND
Joined: 12/8/08

Looks like my question regarding whether or not the Game and Fish is doing anything to speed up the lottery process will go unanswered.  I'll wait until Jeb is back from his vacation and ask him the same question.

Don't practice until you get it right, practice until you can't get it wrong.

ford_boy's picture
ford_boy
Offline
GREENHORN
Joined: 11/4/03

I have a feeling if the number of gratis tags for land owners starts getting cut there will be even more posted signs going up and no one will get on private land by knocking on doors

NorseDakota's picture
NorseDakota
Offline
AMATEUR
Joined: 1/7/16

SD West River draw deadline today, results by the 28th. Amazing. 

Davis Schmidt's picture
Davis Schmidt
Online
LEGEND
Joined: 12/8/08

NorseDakota wrote:

SD West River draw deadline today, results by the 28th. Amazing. 

They are doing it right, for sure.

Don't practice until you get it right, practice until you can't get it wrong.

Davis Schmidt's picture
Davis Schmidt
Online
LEGEND
Joined: 12/8/08

ford_boy wrote:

I have a feeling if the number of gratis tags for land owners starts getting cut there will be even more posted signs going up and no one will get on private land by knocking on doors

I don't think we will see any changes to the system at all.  We really just need the deer numbers to rebound.

Don't practice until you get it right, practice until you can't get it wrong.

ford_boy's picture
ford_boy
Offline
GREENHORN
Joined: 11/4/03

Agreed

NDSportsman.'s picture
NDSportsman.
Offline
GREENHORN
Joined: 7/13/03

ford_boy wrote:

I have a feeling if the number of gratis tags for land owners starts getting cut there will be even more posted signs going up and no one will get on private land by knocking on doors

I don't think it would change anything. There isn't much unposted land left and I doubt those landowners even hunt. Something needs to be done to get the system back to what it was meant for, not a guaranteed tag for cousin Eddy.

Davis Schmidt's picture
Davis Schmidt
Online
LEGEND
Joined: 12/8/08

Looks like we can expect the deer lottery to run at the end of July every year, and no sooner. Jeb replied to my e-mail today.

The Department will still be running the lottery at the end of July and I can’t anticipate that changing anytime soon. The reason associated is due to the enforcement checks which go into the gratis applications which now have to be completed by the time the lottery is ran. Prior to 2013, the gratis applicants didn’t have to meet the deer deadline in order to receive a gratis license, so the enforcement checks didn’t have to be done by July 20th as they do now – which is a bit tasking on the enforcement folks in addition to their normal duties. 

Don't practice until you get it right, practice until you can't get it wrong.

Jdubya72's picture
Jdubya72
Offline
GREENHORN
Joined: 7/18/17

How does the gratis thing work for the antelope drawing? Do they get a percentage of available tags? Also how do ya get the drawing odds/statistics from 2016? Would like to know if I'm actually gonna have a chance in the unit I apply for or if I'm just getting another point... Thanks.

wslayer's picture
wslayer
Offline
GREENHORN
Joined: 7/27/02

50/50 , you either will or won't like all other lottery applicants.

Jdubya72's picture
Jdubya72
Offline
GREENHORN
Joined: 7/18/17

Thanks, that helped.

StevePike's picture
StevePike
Offline
GREENHORN
Joined: 1/4/02

Resident Gratis and Nonresident Landowner - Licenses are available to residents and nonresidents who own, or residents who lease for agricultural purposes and actively farm or ranch, at least 150 acres of land located in an open hunting area. These licenses are valid only upon land described on the license. The license consists of the tag and the copy of the application returned to the landowner/lessee (both need to be in possession while hunting). The resident gratis or nonresident landowner license may be used during the deer bow, deer gun or muzzleloader seasons until the license is filled. Resident gratis and nonresident landowner licenses are issued only through the Department’s Bismarck office and are subtracted from the maximum number of deer gun licenses available (nonresident landowner from the 1 percent allocation), for each unit. A resident who holds a valid lottery license to hunt deer may hunt the same species and sex of deer, for which that person’s license is valid, on land in an adjoining unit for which that person would be eligible for a resident gratis deer license. A person, that person’s spouse, and their children who have a gratis deer license may hunt together on any qualifying land described on any of their licenses provided they hunt within the same unit in which their described land is located. No other licenses are required for resident gratis licensees. Applications received by the June 7, 2017 deadline will be issued an any-legal-deer license. Applications received after the deadline will be issued licenses based on availability after the initial lottery.

You can't aim a duck to death.

Davis Schmidt's picture
Davis Schmidt
Online
LEGEND
Joined: 12/8/08

Jdubya72 wrote:

How does the gratis thing work for the antelope drawing? Do they get a percentage of available tags? Also how do ya get the drawing odds/statistics from 2016? Would like to know if I'm actually gonna have a chance in the unit I apply for or if I'm just getting another point... Thanks.

I'll look thru the game and fish site tomorrow, or email them and see if they can send me a spreadsheet on what the stats were in 2016.

I have no idea how it works for antelope, perhaps they will clarify that for me as well. I'll get back to you when I know more.

Don't practice until you get it right, practice until you can't get it wrong.

ND_Hunter's picture
ND_Hunter
Offline
GREENHORN
Joined: 7/18/13

Here's the 2016 stats. They have them under the deer hunting page.

https://gf.nd.gov/licensing/availability/deer/stats

Putting The Fun Back In Funeral

Davis Schmidt's picture
Davis Schmidt
Online
LEGEND
Joined: 12/8/08

ND_Hunter wrote:

Here's the 2016 stats. They have them under the deer hunting page.

https://gf.nd.gov/licensing/availability/deer/stats

Thanks! I knew they were out there somewhere.

Don't practice until you get it right, practice until you can't get it wrong.

Dean Nelson's picture
Dean Nelson
Offline
WEEKEND WARRIOR
Joined: 5/6/05

Davis Schmidt wrote:

Looks like we can expect the deer lottery to run at the end of July every year, and no sooner. Jeb replied to my e-mail today.

The Department will still be running the lottery at the end of July and I can’t anticipate that changing anytime soon. The reason associated is due to the enforcement checks which go into the gratis applications which now have to be completed by the time the lottery is ran. Prior to 2013, the gratis applicants didn’t have to meet the deer deadline in order to receive a gratis license, so the enforcement checks didn’t have to be done by July 20th as they do now – which is a bit tasking on the enforcement folks in addition to their normal duties. 

 

What a crock of shit! If that's the problem here's what you do you bump up the gratis deadline so it's completed before the due date for apps. Gee the guys must be Mensa candidates to have a hard time figuring out that incredibly difficult solution in my most sarcastic voice I can give!

Davis Schmidt's picture
Davis Schmidt
Online
LEGEND
Joined: 12/8/08

I don't mind it too terribly much I guess, at least we know now that it's just the way it's going to be, until they figure something else out. I do understand that it makes it tough for people to plan vacations, I'm included in that as well.

Don't practice until you get it right, practice until you can't get it wrong.

Marauder@29's picture
Marauder@29
Offline
GREENHORN
Joined: 8/4/16

I

I guess I will bite ... how can you blame land owners for getting a gratis tag? It's their legal right having paid for the land and for having paid taxes on the land every year.

You have to also ask yourself how to use gratis tags as a management practice because 1 gratis tag equals 1 deer on the designated piece of land that the gratis states as its legal area.

The reason they reduced the acreage to 150 is because most if not all 1/4 sections (160 acres) include a small portion that is removed for roadways. 

when I feed the deer and all of the other critters in the middle of winter not because I have to but because I want to why does that make me a bad sportsman? 

Land owners are tired of being thrown under the bus by the sporting public, not all sportsman donthis but the loud minority ruins it for the rest. Trust me, there are no handouts and anyone who says there are I invite to buy some land and try to make it on "handouts"

Davis Schmidt's picture
Davis Schmidt
Online
LEGEND
Joined: 12/8/08

I have no issues with any landowners taking advantage of the Gratis tag, Marauder is correct, they own the land and pay the taxes and should have a right to a tag.  What leaves a bad taste in my mouth is seeing Gratis account for more than 90% of the tags in some units.  Ultimately it all comes back to poor deer numbers, if/when they rebound I would guess that the complaining would mostly cease.

Don't practice until you get it right, practice until you can't get it wrong.

SeaNymph1969's picture
SeaNymph1969
Offline
GREENHORN
Joined: 5/7/12

IMO

There are a lot of factors that go into this. But, I would say you are the minority in this group. A lot of farmers shoot deer year round when they are a problem. They make a mess of hay stacks. Also, most farmers and ranchers that are into hunting will allow doe hunters on their property. Who would allow a couple hunters that have buck tags? Lets not kid ourselves and say that everyone that draws a tag for gratis on a small block of property stays on the small piece. And hunting isnt a right, its a priveleage. One that we need to work hard to keep. When you say it like that, you make it sound as if the deer are yours. Im not trying to say a person shouldnt get a tag if they have the property and hunt that said property. This isnt the case and the system isnt what I want it to be. I agree with everyone else that we should know a lot earlier in the year if we draw. The game and fish is working with the set of laws that are in place. Not pointing fingers at you Maurader, simply stating things as a whole. Drawing a whitetail buck tag in north dakota isnt a coveted tag for me anymore, unlless I have access to some nice land. The public land in most areas isnt great. Yes there is big bucks shot off of public..... but what im looking for in a hunt doesnt involve people cruising roads. 

 

 

 

Marauder@29 wrote:

I

I guess I will bite ... how can you blame land owners for getting a gratis tag? It's their legal right having paid for the land and for having paid taxes on the land every year.

You have to also ask yourself how to use gratis tags as a management practice because 1 gratis tag equals 1 deer on the designated piece of land that the gratis states as its legal area.

The reason they reduced the acreage to 150 is because most if not all 1/4 sections (160 acres) include a small portion that is removed for roadways. 

when I feed the deer and all of the other critters in the middle of winter not because I have to but because I want to why does that make me a bad sportsman? 

Land owners are tired of being thrown under the bus by the sporting public, not all sportsman donthis but the loud minority ruins it for the rest. Trust me, there are no handouts and anyone who says there are I invite to buy some land and try to make it on "handouts"

Uncle Rico's picture
Uncle Rico
Offline
GREENHORN
Joined: 9/1/16

Can we all just admit that basically every single person that posts on these topics will have the viewpoint that most benefits themselves?  It's human nature.  We live in a world where everyone seems to think they are entitled to everything and if someone else has something, then they deserve it too.

I have been on both sides of this.  I grew up on a farm, and still farm a bit on the side.  However, my primary career is based in a larger town, and has afforded me financial comfort and stability.  I cringe when I hear some of the stuff people say and write.  Sure, there are examples of "doesn't make sense" or "that's just not right".  This includes topics surrounding farmers, as well as everyone else.  I think the part where I really take issue is when soemone has the attitude that basically the countryside is their playground, and nobody should be able to limit how they play on it.

I hear and read some interesting comments from non-landowners when it comes to hunting.  "CRP acres should be open to hunting", "gratis tags are out of control", and the list goes on....many of these same people left the farm and moved to the city to make more money and live a luxurious lifestyle.  If you live in Fargo (or another large town), you have a lot of amenities in life that these rural people do not have readily available.  You utilize these amenities so often that you likely don't even realize you are doing it.  I don't hear the livestock farmers complaining on here about half of the Red River Valley being in MN at their lake homes every weekend?  If people can afford a lake home, chances are they can afford 150 acres of land. Having money and a lake home are things that might come with living in a larger town and having a well paying career.  Guess what...getting a gratis tag is a perk that comes with owning land.  Does that really sound that outlandish? 

Maybe we should all just do what we can to get the deer herd back to where it needs to be, and the problem will take care of itself?

 

 

Davis Schmidt's picture
Davis Schmidt
Online
LEGEND
Joined: 12/8/08

Uncle Rico wrote:

Maybe we should all just do what we can to get the deer herd back to where it needs to be, and the problem will take care of itself?

 

This I can agree with.

Don't practice until you get it right, practice until you can't get it wrong.

Marauder@29's picture
Marauder@29
Offline
GREENHORN
Joined: 8/4/16

 

We can talk about who is breaking the law for every hunter in every unit with every tag but it is all a wash. The reason this wasn't an issue before is because of the process they used to issue gratis tags. Now that they remove tags for gratis tags this is an issue. 

A larger question you might want to start with is unlimited deer bow tags for both residents and non-residents... without units east of The River. That to me has a lot more to do with deer population management than going after land owners for getting a single tag. 

 

Pages