epa (uncle) in charge in wyoming...

where are the personal property rights... think you own your own land??? we are just all renters here... 

 http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/03/14/wyoming-welder-faces-fine-for...

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I guess I took that wrong.  I thought it meant don't tell gst what you do for a living.  He's trying to get his nose under your tent.

guywhofishes Said:
http://www.christart.com/IMAGES-art9ab/books/richard_gunther/b/beware_the_camels_nose/Camel-01.gif

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Hardwaterman Said:
So your Cobb thing blew up in your face, you have nothing of substance to back your BS as usual, keep tugging those ears, there is hope for you to see light some day and at least temporarily fix your cranial/anal insertion syndrome! 

weedy blows your epa rant out of the water, Cook is not rolling over on the land purchase issue, you where unsuccessful in deflecting away the fact that the farm orgs do not want to share the tent, because they have their camel already in it. My you have had a bad couple days and no effective jabs at conservation organizations!

Best toss out the Folgers and get some hi test coffee, your going to need it!

Ron, the "Cobb thing" is hardly "blown out of the water".

I think most people on here, would guess on the side that you would be the loudest fella at the city council meeting demanding they do something about Cobb to prevent your property values from declining because you have a white supremacist as your neighbor.

All weedy did was make assumptions like yourself. Albeit he admitted his rant against this welder was based on no real facts or knowledge regarding the case.

We did have a bad day yesterday though, lost a calf to a hefier that was stupid and laid on it in the pen in our calving barn. Wish she would have been out on the prairie in the open.

Come on ron, should I be able to sell my land to my Canadian friend?

Should out of state nonprofit orgs have a say in changing our states constituion?

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plainsman, I will ask you the same questions I asked ron and see if you have the backbone to answer.

Should I be able to sell my land to my Canadian friend?

Should out of state nonprofits have a say in changing our states constitution?

Guys they are pretty simple straight forward questions.

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"Hi, I'm from the govt and I'm here to help."


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I don't see a problem with me selling my land to a canadian.  In fact I did sell some land to canadians a few years ago but there wasn't enough rural water available yet so the deal fell through day before closing.  Americans own resorts in canada.  Don't see an issue with it.  And if a non profit can get enough citizens of ND to vote for a change in our constitution then it's really not the non profit getting it changed, it was the voters of the state.  It's just the way it is.

 

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gst, I am still waiting for your reply on the ruby thread. You seem to be an expert on everything.

 

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Your original question was answered about out of state interests, and here is an answer to your latest! If you do not want any out of state non profit involved then no out of state for profit companies or national organizations should as well. Your standard that you keep implying is vital. Well then your side needs to follow the same path or as I said before dumbass shut up about it.

In regards to Cobb, and me being at a city council meeting demanding they do something my question to you is exactly what could they do? Certainly they cannot pass a law that says his views are not allowed. Constitution prohibits that?

See your so stupid having been involved with farm and ranch orgs that you are really clueless as to how the rest of the world works. The only thing I could complain about and seek relief for would be violations of codes and ordnances if he was not following them. There would not be anything I could ask them to do nor would I since I do not think I am special unlike you.

Your question regarding Canadian friend has been answered before gst! It is a losing argument and the courts are going to show you and the farm org of the state this come fall unless the state concedes and agrees to settle. So you want to keep the current law I would suggest bending the ear of lobbyist to talk to the Gov and get that settlement done sooner rather than later, but my gut is telling me Cook will not settle so maybe it is a moot point!

So back to the WY issue, weeds made no assumptions he stated the process of getting a use permit to do what the person in Wy did. The water way in question seems to fit the bill of what the EPA and Feds have legal control over established by laws passed by elected officals of all the people of the US! ( Had to use one of your tired lines, only my use has court rulings underscoring that authority beyond a state court.)

Sorry to hear of the loss of the calf, and believe it or not, I understand.

So continue gst to spew because the more you do the more people see that your positions are not property right friendly in any way shape or form, nor do they believe your false claims  

In my lifetime I have seen fence row to fence row farming and the return of CRP and game to the landscape.Now we face again the prosepect of fence row to fence row again! Sportsman are our own worst enemy in that we fail to look forward and focus to much on the now!

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 And if a non profit can get enough citizens of ND to vote for a change in our constitution then it's really not the non profit getting it changed, it was the voters of the state. 

Excellent point eyexer.   Some would have us believe that it's those out of state people who are changing the constitution.  I think anyone who believes in the ideals of a republic and respects this nation will allow the decisions to be made by the ultimate judge which is the people.

  "Hi, I'm from the govt and I'm here to help."

Are you making fun of the NRCS, or the government guy that cuts your fat check?

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cpete2 Said:
gst, I am still waiting for your reply on the ruby thread. You seem to be an expert on everything.

My apologies CPete, I have no clue what you are talking about, please refresh my memory with a link to the conversation and I will try my best.

Actually it is more like the old saying "jack of all trades, expert at none".

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Plainsman Said:

 And if a non profit can get enough citizens of ND to vote for a change in our constitution then it's really not the non profit getting it changed, it was the voters of the state. 

Excellent point eyexer.   Some would have us believe that it's those out of state people who are changing the constitution.  I think anyone who believes in the ideals of a republic and respects this nation will allow the decisions to be made by the ultimate judge which is the people.

  "Hi, I'm from the govt and I'm here to help."

Are you making fun of the NRCS, or the government guy that cuts your fat check?

Eye, you have struck upon the chicken or the egg and which came first.

Would the voters of ND voted on a measure had the nonprofit not spent millions of dollars selling it?

Andfor a little extra twist, would the voters of ND have voted for the measure if the nonprofits had not been disingenuous with the voters regarding their measure?

Plainsamn so you support states rights right up until it affects something you wish and then you seem to have no problem with out of state interests buying their agendas here in our states constitution?

Why did you type page after page against the "people" deciding just a couple years ago is, " I think anyone who believes in the ideals of a republic and respects this nation will allow the decisions to be made by the ultimate judge which is the people."

So Bruce you then have no problem with out of state interests spending millions to change our states constitution?

Yes or no.


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Ron, Bruce,

Should I be able to sell my land to my Canadian friend?

Should out of state nonprofits (or for profits) have a say in changing our states constitution?

Yes?

No?

Ron I have been steadfast that NO outside influences  nonprofit or for profit should be involved in NORTH DAKOTA politics. PERIOD.

So please answer two simple questions.

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gst Said:

Plainsman Said:

 And if a non profit can get enough citizens of ND to vote for a change in our constitution then it's really not the non profit getting it changed, it was the voters of the state. 

Excellent point eyexer.   Some would have us believe that it's those out of state people who are changing the constitution.  I think anyone who believes in the ideals of a republic and respects this nation will allow the decisions to be made by the ultimate judge which is the people.

  "Hi, I'm from the govt and I'm here to help."

Are you making fun of the NRCS, or the government guy that cuts your fat check?

Eye, you have struck upon the chicken or the egg and which came first.

Would the voters of ND voted on a measure had the nonprofit not spent millions of dollars selling it?

Andfor a little extra twist, would the voters of ND have voted for the measure if the nonprofits had not been disingenuous with the voters regarding their measure?

Plainsamn so you support states rights right up until it affects something you wish and then you seem to have no problem with out of state interests buying their agendas here in our states constitution?

Why did you type page after page against the "people" deciding just a couple years ago is, " I think anyone who believes in the ideals of a republic and respects this nation will allow the decisions to be made by the ultimate judge which is the people."

So Bruce you then have no problem with out of state interests spending millions to change our states constitution?

Yes or no.


you'll have to ask the voters.  I'm assuming you think they are too stupid to make up their own minds without pressure from out of state interests.  Bottom line is the voters are the ones that decide things in this regard and they are the ones that have to make that decision.  If the reality is that out of state organizations spend more money to persuade our citizens to vote a certain way, well then the other side better get their damn check book out if you truly believe that.  We're really just a microcosm of what goes on at the federal level.  States lobby for certain things that affect other states.  sometimes for the good sometimes for the bad.  and most of the time at the expense money wise of the other states.  I guess what it boils down to is you simply think that the majority of the people of this state are too stupid to be able to make the right decision regarding initiated measures.  That they don't have the superior intellect that you posses.  Which is actually rather comical. 

 

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gst Said:
Ron, Bruce,

Should I be able to sell my land to my Canadian friend?

Should out of state nonprofits (or for profits) have a say in changing our states constitution?

Yes?

No?

Ron I have been steadfast that NO outside influences  nonprofit or for profit should be involved in NORTH DAKOTA politics. PERIOD.

So please answer two simple questions.

I"m not sure why your compelled to beat this "sell my land to a canadian friend" thing to death.  We already can sell our land to Canadians.  Not sure what the point is your trying to make.

 

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gst the questions you pose have been answered. My point remains the same don't bitch about out of state money if the organizations that you support are willing and in the past have taken it as well. MOVE ON DUMBASS!

Funny you think it is fine for FB and others to push a voter required amendment but not for others to do so. Thus another example of your BS hypocrisy that shines so bright that sunglasses at night are needed!

In my lifetime I have seen fence row to fence row farming and the return of CRP and game to the landscape.Now we face again the prosepect of fence row to fence row again! Sportsman are our own worst enemy in that we fail to look forward and focus to much on the now!

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eyexer Said:
 

gst Said:

Plainsman Said:

 And if a non profit can get enough citizens of ND to vote for a change in our constitution then it's really not the non profit getting it changed, it was the voters of the state. 

Excellent point eyexer.   Some would have us believe that it's those out of state people who are changing the constitution.  I think anyone who believes in the ideals of a republic and respects this nation will allow the decisions to be made by the ultimate judge which is the people.

  "Hi, I'm from the govt and I'm here to help."

Are you making fun of the NRCS, or the government guy that cuts your fat check?

Eye, you have struck upon the chicken or the egg and which came first.

Would the voters of ND voted on a measure had the nonprofit not spent millions of dollars selling it?

Andfor a little extra twist, would the voters of ND have voted for the measure if the nonprofits had not been disingenuous with the voters regarding their measure?

Plainsamn so you support states rights right up until it affects something you wish and then you seem to have no problem with out of state interests buying their agendas here in our states constitution?

Why did you type page after page against the "people" deciding just a couple years ago is, " I think anyone who believes in the ideals of a republic and respects this nation will allow the decisions to be made by the ultimate judge which is the people."

So Bruce you then have no problem with out of state interests spending millions to change our states constitution?

Yes or no.

you'll have to ask the voters.  I'm assuming you think they are too stupid to make up their own minds without pressure from out of state interests.  Bottom line is the voters are the ones that decide things in this regard and they are the ones that have to make that decision.  If the reality is that out of state organizations spend more money to persuade our citizens to vote a certain way, well then the other side better get their damn check book out if you truly believe that.  We're really just a microcosm of what goes on at the federal level.  States lobby for certain things that affect other states.  sometimes for the good sometimes for the bad.  and most of the time at the expense money wise of the other states.  I guess what it boils down to is you simply think that the majority of the people of this state are too stupid to be able to make the right decision regarding initiated measures.  That they don't have the superior intellect that you posses.  Which is actually rather comical. 

eye, if one campaign spends 2 million dollars painting a picture that ommits certain consequences and makes promises that everyone would want despite being truthful about the consequences, and one campaign spends $100,000 and tries to get the truth out only to be over ran with advertising everytime 10 to one, which one has the better odds of winning?

Tell the same lie often enough over and over and eventually some people will believe it.

How else do you explain Obama getting elected to a second term.

Eye to not acknowledge money can buy votes whether here in ND or at the Federal level is pretty blind.

It appears you guys have no problem with out of state interests buying changes to our constitution as long as it get you what you want.

And eye, please show where I have EVER said the voters of ND are "to stupid" to make up their own minds if they are provided the truth behind what they are being asked to vote on.

I despise people that will lie to further an agenda.

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eyexer Said:
 

gst Said:
Ron, Bruce,

Should I be able to sell my land to my Canadian friend?

Should out of state nonprofits (or for profits) have a say in changing our states constitution?

Yes?

No?

Ron I have been steadfast that NO outside influences  nonprofit or for profit should be involved in NORTH DAKOTA politics. PERIOD.

So please answer two simple questions.

I"m not sure why your compelled to beat this "sell my land to a canadian friend" thing to death.  We already can sell our land to Canadians.  Not sure what the point is your trying to make.

You might want to check state law as to who one can sell their land to. If ron demands I can sell my lands to a Canadian, why should I not be able to sell my land to a Chinese national if they are the highest bidder?

Ron claims anyone should be able to sell their lands to anyone they wish. The state believes otherwise in a number of areas for various reasons.

So if we can sell to a Canadian, shouldn't we be able to sell to a Chinese national?

How about an Iranian national with ties to the Muslim Brotherhood?

What about a Mexican national with ties to the cartels?

As I have said repeatedly infringements on private properties should only be done so after very thourough consideration of the conequences. One can reasonably argue having large amounts of land owned by foriegn nationals may not be in the bestinterests of the state.

So the question is asked to determine if there is ANYONE that ron thinks should not be able to purchase land. He knows where I am going with this and will not answer because if he is going to be honest, he knows it is not in the best interests of the state to allow that.

Ron, plainsman, eye, should out of state interests be allowed to buy influences to make changes to our constitution with millions of dollars?

yes, no?

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Hardwaterman Said:
gst the questions you pose have been answered. My point remains the same don't bitch about out of state money if the organizations that you support are willing and in the past have taken it as well. MOVE ON DUMBASS!

Funny you think it is fine for FB and others to push a voter required amendment but not for others to do so. Thus another example of your BS hypocrisy that shines so bright that sunglasses at night are needed!

Where have you given a simple yes or no answer?

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gst you are a piece of work, answered, and answered again and again! Figure it out dumbass!

In my lifetime I have seen fence row to fence row farming and the return of CRP and game to the landscape.Now we face again the prosepect of fence row to fence row again! Sportsman are our own worst enemy in that we fail to look forward and focus to much on the now!

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Hardwaterman Said:
gst you are a piece of work, answered, and answered again and again! Figure it out dumbass!

Okay, just for this "dumbass" ron can you please show where you have answered it in a simple yes or no absolute such as your claim "anyone should be able to sell their land to anyone they wish" (or to that effect) was an absolute?

(a copy and paste will work with the link it came from)

Should an Iranian national with ties to the Muslim Brotherhood be able to buy land here in ND. Yes? No?

Should out of state interests be able to use their millions of $ to influence changes to our states constitution? Yes? No?

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"The government says he violated the Clean Water Act by building a dam on a creek without a permit from the Army Corps of Engineers. Further, the EPA claims that material from his pond is being discharged into other waterways. Johnson says he built a stock pond -- a man-made pond meant to attract wildlife -- which is exempt from Clean Water Act regulations.  

The property owner says he followed the state rules for a stock pond when he built it in 2012 and has an April 4-dated letter from the Wyoming State Engineer’s Office to prove it.

“Said permit is in good standing and is entitled to be exercised exactly as permitted,” the state agency letter to Johnson said.

But the EPA isn’t backing down and argues they have final say over the issue. They also say Johnson needs to restore the land or face the fines."

So to get back on track here because no one is going to answer those two questions with a yes or no answer, this above from the article is really the crux of the issue.

Apparently the guy went to the state and even got a real letter from a real engineer (weedy should like that) from the state of WY and did what the state says he is supposed to.

But the Federal Govt comes in and says that is not relevant because the Federal Govt knows what is best for Wy.

So the question is should we invite organizations that have these same high handed ideals into our state to change our constitution with their millions of dollars?

.

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gst Said:

eyexer Said:
 

gst Said:

Plainsman Said:

 And if a non profit can get enough citizens of ND to vote for a change in our constitution then it's really not the non profit getting it changed, it was the voters of the state. 

Excellent point eyexer.   Some would have us believe that it's those out of state people who are changing the constitution.  I think anyone who believes in the ideals of a republic and respects this nation will allow the decisions to be made by the ultimate judge which is the people.

  "Hi, I'm from the govt and I'm here to help."

Are you making fun of the NRCS, or the government guy that cuts your fat check?

Eye, you have struck upon the chicken or the egg and which came first.

Would the voters of ND voted on a measure had the nonprofit not spent millions of dollars selling it?

Andfor a little extra twist, would the voters of ND have voted for the measure if the nonprofits had not been disingenuous with the voters regarding their measure?

Plainsamn so you support states rights right up until it affects something you wish and then you seem to have no problem with out of state interests buying their agendas here in our states constitution?

Why did you type page after page against the "people" deciding just a couple years ago is, " I think anyone who believes in the ideals of a republic and respects this nation will allow the decisions to be made by the ultimate judge which is the people."

So Bruce you then have no problem with out of state interests spending millions to change our states constitution?

Yes or no.

you'll have to ask the voters.  I'm assuming you think they are too stupid to make up their own minds without pressure from out of state interests.  Bottom line is the voters are the ones that decide things in this regard and they are the ones that have to make that decision.  If the reality is that out of state organizations spend more money to persuade our citizens to vote a certain way, well then the other side better get their damn check book out if you truly believe that.  We're really just a microcosm of what goes on at the federal level.  States lobby for certain things that affect other states.  sometimes for the good sometimes for the bad.  and most of the time at the expense money wise of the other states.  I guess what it boils down to is you simply think that the majority of the people of this state are too stupid to be able to make the right decision regarding initiated measures.  That they don't have the superior intellect that you posses.  Which is actually rather comical. 

eye, if one campaign spends 2 million dollars painting a picture that ommits certain consequences and makes promises that everyone would want despite being truthful about the consequences, and one campaign spends $100,000 and tries to get the truth out only to be over ran with advertising everytime 10 to one, which one has the better odds of winning?

Tell the same lie often enough over and over and eventually some people will believe it.

How else do you explain Obama getting elected to a second term.

Eye to not acknowledge money can buy votes whether here in ND or at the Federal level is pretty blind.

It appears you guys have no problem with out of state interests buying changes to our constitution as long as it get you what you want.

And eye, please show where I have EVER said the voters of ND are "to stupid" to make up their own minds if they are provided the truth behind what they are being asked to vote on.

I despise people that will lie to further an agenda.

I never said money doesn't buy votes.  especially on the national level.  I don't think it's near as bad at our state level.  But if y our concerned about that then you guys better open your wallets if that is the issue.  The ag community has very deep pockets.  They just don't want to spend the money.  They'd rather whine about it. 

 

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gst Said:

eyexer Said:
 

gst Said:
Ron, Bruce,

Should I be able to sell my land to my Canadian friend?

Should out of state nonprofits (or for profits) have a say in changing our states constitution?

Yes?

No?

Ron I have been steadfast that NO outside influences  nonprofit or for profit should be involved in NORTH DAKOTA politics. PERIOD.

So please answer two simple questions.

I"m not sure why your compelled to beat this "sell my land to a canadian friend" thing to death.  We already can sell our land to Canadians.  Not sure what the point is your trying to make.

You might want to check state law as to who one can sell their land to. If ron demands I can sell my lands to a Canadian, why should I not be able to sell my land to a Chinese national if they are the highest bidder?

Ron claims anyone should be able to sell their lands to anyone they wish. The state believes otherwise in a number of areas for various reasons.

So if we can sell to a Canadian, shouldn't we be able to sell to a Chinese national?

How about an Iranian national with ties to the Muslim Brotherhood?

What about a Mexican national with ties to the cartels?

As I have said repeatedly infringements on private properties should only be done so after very thourough consideration of the conequences. One can reasonably argue having large amounts of land owned by foriegn nationals may not be in the bestinterests of the state.

So the question is asked to determine if there is ANYONE that ron thinks should not be able to purchase land. He knows where I am going with this and will not answer because if he is going to be honest, he knows it is not in the best interests of the state to allow that.

Ron, plainsman, eye, should out of state interests be allowed to buy influences to make changes to our constitution with millions of dollars?

yes, no?

If the state doesn't want foreign interests buying land here then they better get their check book out.  Maybe you should enlighten us on who one can sell their land to.

 

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gst Said:
"The government says he violated the Clean Water Act by building a dam on a creek without a permit from the Army Corps of Engineers. Further, the EPA claims that material from his pond is being discharged into other waterways. Johnson says he built a stock pond -- a man-made pond meant to attract wildlife -- which is exempt from Clean Water Act regulations.  

The property owner says he followed the state rules for a stock pond when he built it in 2012 and has an April 4-dated letter from the Wyoming State Engineer’s Office to prove it.

“Said permit is in good standing and is entitled to be exercised exactly as permitted,” the state agency letter to Johnson said.

But the EPA isn’t backing down and argues they have final say over the issue. They also say Johnson needs to restore the land or face the fines."

So to get back on track here because no one is going to answer those two questions with a yes or no answer, this above from the article is really the crux of the issue.

Apparently the guy went to the state and even got a real letter from a real engineer (weedy should like that) from the state of WY and did what the state says he is supposed to.

But the Federal Govt comes in and says that is not relevant because the Federal Govt knows what is best for Wy.

So the question is should we invite organizations that have these same high handed ideals into our state to change our constitution with their millions of dollars?

.

I think it's a states rights issue.  The burden of proof should be on the epa to prove this guys damn is a serious threat.  I don't know the details of this case but I'd guess the epa hasn't done that, they're just flexing their muscle.

 

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gst you have asked these questions in multiple threads got it! NOW since you want a simple yes or no answer give us one to this

WILL YOU PUBLICLY TELL THE AG GROUPS AND OTHERS OPPOSED TO THE PETITION TO ONLY ACCEPT AND USE MONEY THAT COMES FROM RESIDENTS OF THE STATE OR FROM COMPANIES DOMICILED IN ND?
 
THERE IS YOUR YES OR NO QUESTION!!!!!!!!! NOW ANSWER THAT OR SIMPLY SHUT UP!

In my lifetime I have seen fence row to fence row farming and the return of CRP and game to the landscape.Now we face again the prosepect of fence row to fence row again! Sportsman are our own worst enemy in that we fail to look forward and focus to much on the now!

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gst you twist things trying to get the answer you want.  You can be answered a half dozen times, but keep asking claiming no one has answered you.  If you don't get the right answer you fabricate a scenario that makes your debate opponent look bad.  Oh, yes I know show you where you have done that right?  Sure thing. 

I'll do something shocking for you gst, I'll be totally honest.  Everyone here feels much the same including you, and if you deny it we will all know your full of bs.

Do we want out of state money coming in, can you sell to a Canadian, etc.

You talk landowner rights out of the left side of your mouth and landowner restrictions out of the right side of your mouth gst.  Here is how I feel:

I think any citizen, group of citizens, or government agency should be able to purchase any farm land they want if they have a willing buyer.  In North Dakota the ag interests have restricted the Fish and Wildlife from buying land.  I think it's unconstitutional to restrict an American citizen or agency that way.  Would I restrict terrorist groups?  Sure I would.  Here is the shocker gst:  I would like to restrict groups that threaten my future and your already doing it through our one track mind legislature, and you like it. 

Out of state money:
You don't want it, because the largest industry in the state (agriculture) can walk all over the rest of the citizens without out of state money.   I like it because it gives us a fighting chance against the giant.  This isn't buying votes, it's just giving a voice through advertising so the people of North Dakota can make an educated vote rather than a ignorant vote.  I want the educated vote, and you want the ignorant vote.  Simple as that. 

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Come on ron, please show this "dumbass" where you have answered those questions.

You haven't.

Ron you have asked the question you are yelling before and I compared it to an analogy of going into a boxing match with your hands tied behind your back. (you seem to like that idea in regards to this measure ron)

SO YES RON I DO NOT WANT ANYONE ACCEPTING OUT OF STATE DOLLARS TO IMPACT ND DECISIONS. I HAVE SAID THIS MULTIPLE TIMES BEFORE, I HAVE NEVER ONCE VARIED FROM THIS POSITION.

Now back to non internet yelling for the rest of our conversation.

But unfortunately one side already has taken in hundreds of thousands of dollars from out of state groups to do so haven;t they ron. This was done years before any formal opposition group was formed. They are continuing to take in hundreds of thousands more and will likely take in millions before it is done.

So would you like to see the opposition handicapped by not doing so? Like I said earlier ron, you impress me as someone who would get a smug satisfaction of stepping into a ring with your opponents hands tied behind his back. 

Hardwaterman Said:
gst you have asked these questions in multiple threads got it! NOW since you want a simple yes or no answer give us one to this
WILL YOU PUBLICLY TELL THE AG GROUPS AND OTHERS OPPOSED TO THE PETITION TO ONLY ACCEPT AND USE MONEY THAT COMES FROM RESIDENTS OF THE STATE OR FROM COMPANIES DOMICILED IN ND?
 
THERE IS YOUR YES OR NO QUESTION!!!!!!!!! NOW ANSWER THAT OR SIMPLY SHUT UP!

Remember ron it is NOT the opposition that opened this door. It is the proponents of this measure that used these dollars from these out of state orgs to fraudulently collect signatures last time.

Remember ron it is the proponents of this measure that are using these funds to hire a Washington DC firm to run their campaign for them instead of using a ND company.

The same Washjington DC based company that is running other measures for the very out of state groups that are signing the checks. So who is calling the shots here ron, the ND sponsors or the out of state checkbooks?

People like you and eye and plainsman seem to have no problem with people from outside our state buying control over ND when it suits your purpose.

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eyexer Said
I never said money doesn't buy votes.  especially on the national level.  I don't think it's near as bad at our state level.  But if y our concerned about that then you guys better open your wallets if that is the issue.  The ag community has very deep pockets.  They just don't want to spend the money.  They'd rather whine about it. 

eye, just last election we had a measure on the ballot regarding animal cruelty funded by the HSUS and other out of state animal rights groups. They had spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on advertising early on. The polls were running 60% in favor, 40% against.

Livestock producers ponied up thousands but could not match dollar for dollar these out of state orgs. Only when another outside org funded by Lucas Oil, Protect the Harvest donated significant dollars late in the game were the lies being told able to be countered with the truth dollar for dollar.

The final result ended up reversing and it was defeated roughly 60% against 40% for.

Dollars DO play a large role her in state issues such as this. These orgs know this and that is why they are willing to invest millions to access billions.

Once one side starts down that road as the sponsors of this measure have done twice now, the other side has two choices follow or be SIGNIFICANTLY handicapped.

A friend of mine had his booth right beside this measures booth at the KX sport show.

Not once did the gals collecting signatures tell ND voters of the hundreds of thousands of dollars they accepted from out of state orgs.

Not once did they tell the people they were asking to sign that 75% of millions of dollars HAD to be spent no matter what.

Not once did they tell ND voters that they would not be able to vote on this again for 25 years.

None of the materials they were handing out mentioned any of this either. Why not tell the people of ND what the measure actually will do and who is funding it's passage?

Why not tell the voters these orgs funding this measure are the same ones suing states over wolf management and other things and "collaborating" with the EPA?

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SO YES RON I DO NOT WANT ANYONE ACCEPTING OUT OF STATE DOLLARS TO IMPACT ND DECISIONS. I HAVE SAID THIS MULTIPLE TIMES BEFORE, I HAVE NEVER ONCE VARIED FROM THIS POSITION.

Not the question asked of you gst!

yes I should be able to sell to anyone that I want to period. If the Fed Gov deems ownership of land by someone or a country hostile to the US so be it. Bigger scheme of things, but you are again clouding the issue. ND law is not going to withstand the court review. So until such time that the ruling comes down you can ask about Iran, Iraq, Venezuela or Canada citizens and the answer does not change. YOU NOR STOCKMENS SHOULD HAVE ANY INPUT INTO WHOM I SELL TO!

 Clear enough for you? Again this has been answered. In regards to out of state money I said before that I prefer things in state, but that is not the way things work anymore. Out of state money is a direct result of the actions taken by you and others like you in preventing conservation efforts and like it or not conservation in ND affects and impacts wildlife especially migrating wild in other states and countries. SO they have a vested interest in it as well.

In regards to WY issue again powers granted to the Fed body cannot be trumped by the state. Control of waterways and drainage to them is a federal issue and like I pointed out our contractor knew this even though our local Gov said no permit was needed. So that argument holds no water pun intended.

So you got anymore stupid claims to make? Answer the question posed to you not your bs response. Put up or shut up again! IF you are not willing to publicly tell your groups and supporters to take no out of state money or from companies and organizations not domiciled in ND then get off it!

I will again state this, I do not know if I would vote for the amendment if it is successful in getting on the ballot, I do however feel that they have a right to pursue it and the people then get to decide. I am well aware of the costs of this venture and if not for the stupidity of others last time it would likely have made it.

Also if the your organizations contrary to what you claim would have supported a better funded and less ag controlled program I doubt this measure would have come back up. So when you wank about this look in the mirror and realize that much of what is bothering you is of your own making. I highly doubt you have the ablity to look within and see what and why your views are so out of touch but so be it.

Proper conservation efforts are hampered and stonewalled by your org and others like it and this like the lawsuit challenging the law are a direct result of that behavior and short sighted shallow wants.

When was the last time any of the organizations supported the purchase of land for conservation? All we hear is the state and Fed and other org already own to much land.

Not one acre not one penny or something close to it that one of the farm org stated. Good grief what arrogance and flaming stupidity that shows!

In my lifetime I have seen fence row to fence row farming and the return of CRP and game to the landscape.Now we face again the prosepect of fence row to fence row again! Sportsman are our own worst enemy in that we fail to look forward and focus to much on the now!

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Plainsman Said:

gst you twist things trying to get the answer you want.  You can be answered a half dozen times, but keep asking claiming no one has answered you.  If you don't get the right answer you fabricate a scenario that makes your debate opponent look bad.  Oh, yes I know show you where you have done that right?  Sure thing. 

I'll do something shocking for you gst, I'll be totally honest.  Everyone here feels much the same including you, and if you deny it we will all know your full of bs.

Do we want out of state money coming in, can you sell to a Canadian, etc.

You talk landowner rights out of the left side of your mouth and landowner restrictions out of the right side of your mouth gst.  Here is how I feel:

I think any citizen, group of citizens, or government agency should be able to purchase any farm land they want if they have a willing buyer.  In North Dakota the ag interests have restricted the Fish and Wildlife from buying land.  I think it's unconstitutional to restrict an American citizen or agency that way.  Would I restrict terrorist groups?  Sure I would.  Here is the shocker gst:  I would like to restrict groups that threaten my future and your already doing it through our one track mind legislature, and you like it. 

So you want to place YOUR "restrictions" on who can buy land, but complain when the state does this when it does not suit your ideals.

Okay.

The elected representative of ALL the people of ND disagree with you and ron. You seem to take exception with the legislative process when it does not suit your wants Bruce. (oh yeah I know agriculture controls the legislature because that is all they have to do in the winter months right plains) (but what percentage of the states legislators are tied directly to ag Bruce? Remember I provided you that information once)

Out of state money:
You don't want it, because the largest industry in the state (agriculture) can walk all over the rest of the citizens without out of state money.   I like it because it gives us a fighting chance against the giant.  This isn't buying votes, it's just giving a voice through advertising so the people of North Dakota can make an educated vote rather than a ignorant vote.  I want the educated vote, and you want the ignorant vote.  Simple as that. 

You want the "educated vote" as long as they are not required to tell the truth about their measure and who is behind it to actually "educate" the voter.
Just as you denied the truth about other out of state organizations (HSUS) and their involvement and funding in a previous measure right Bruce?

You want to pit agriculture against everyone else Bruce by dividing and segmenting voters in our state against one another.

I simply want ALL ND voters to vote without ANY out of state interests "buying" (and yes it is "buying") votes.

I simply want ALL ND voters to be told the truth about what they are being asked to vote on.



So Bruce would you be so supportive of out of state dollars "buying" ND votes if it was coming from a company making their fortune selling tiling and drainage equipment?

For some reason I doubt you would be so understanding.

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gst Said:

eyexer Said
I never said money doesn't buy votes.  especially on the national level.  I don't think it's near as bad at our state level.  But if y our concerned about that then you guys better open your wallets if that is the issue.  The ag community has very deep pockets.  They just don't want to spend the money.  They'd rather whine about it. 

eye, just last election we had a measure on the ballot regarding animal cruelty funded by the HSUS and other out of state animal rights groups. They had spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on advertising early on. The polls were running 60% in favor, 40% against.

Livestock producers ponied up thousands but could not match dollar for dollar these out of state orgs. Only when another outside org funded by Lucas Oil, Protect the Harvest donated significant dollars late in the game were the lies being told able to be countered with the truth dollar for dollar.

The final result ended up reversing and it was defeated roughly 60% against 40% for.

Dollars DO play a large role her in state issues such as this. These orgs know this and that is why they are willing to invest millions to access billions.

Once one side starts down that road as the sponsors of this measure have done twice now, the other side has two choices follow or be SIGNIFICANTLY handicapped.

A friend of mine had his booth right beside this measures booth at the KX sport show.

Not once did the gals collecting signatures tell ND voters of the hundreds of thousands of dollars they accepted from out of state orgs.

Not once did they tell the people they were asking to sign that 75% of millions of dollars HAD to be spent no matter what.

Not once did they tell ND voters that they would not be able to vote on this again for 25 years.

None of the materials they were handing out mentioned any of this either. Why not tell the people of ND what the measure actually will do and who is funding it's passage?

Why not tell the voters these orgs funding this measure are the same ones suing states over wolf management and other things and "collaborating" with the EPA?

Maybe its because ND doesn't have a wolf problem?  Or maybe it doesn't really matter to the people who are interested in conserving some part of this state for future generations that the EPA is even mentioned?
Gabe you are just simply thinking about your self again.  No surprise though.

If god didn't want us to eat animals....he wouldn't have made them out of food.

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