epa (uncle) in charge in wyoming...

where are the personal property rights... think you own your own land??? we are just all renters here... 

 http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/03/14/wyoming-welder-faces-fine-for...

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Neat

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ron, I am curious here, has the EPA pushed for regulations that would dramatically add to your cost of cleaning somene's blinds to the point you might not stay in business and have something to pass down to your kids?

Has a nonprofit group tried to impact your ability to pass your business successfully down to your family members unencumbered with limitations on what blinds they could clean?

Have non profit groups that receive your tax dollars from the govt tried to put in place perpetual limitations that say you can only clean vertical blinds and not horizontal blinds for the rest of eternity?

Are there any nonprofits that exist out there that have a stated goal of abolishing all blind cleaning businesses?

Has the govt or a non profit tried to take these "rights" to run your business as you wish or as your children may wish away from you?

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guywhofishes Said:
http://themavesite.com/TMS-Pictures/2011-09/ArguingOnTheInternetInCAPSLOCK.jpg

aw come on guy, only one fella here is using an internet bullhorn.

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johnr Said:

Likely one of those bouncing up and down posts someone is famous for !

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Neat

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Now those two pics go together! Hopefully it is not the old gals grand daughter.

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still a chicken shit I see gst!!!!!!

In my lifetime I have seen fence row to fence row farming and the return of CRP and game to the landscape.Now we face again the prosepect of fence row to fence row again! Sportsman are our own worst enemy in that we fail to look forward and focus to much on the now!

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Will be enjoying those sights a lot soon johnr~~~~

In my lifetime I have seen fence row to fence row farming and the return of CRP and game to the landscape.Now we face again the prosepect of fence row to fence row again! Sportsman are our own worst enemy in that we fail to look forward and focus to much on the now!

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Hardwaterman Said:
still a chicken shit I see gst!!!!!!

I guess so ron Just a "chicken shit" "greedy" "dumbass" rancher that has a "pitiful" commitment to conservation.

For some reason I always get a picture of a little kid standing with his fingers in his ears singing at the top of his voice with his eyes closed in my mind everytime you want to dance this dance ron.

Hardwaterman Said:
Will be enjoying those sights a lot soon johnr~~~~

strippers at the up coming RMEF banquet?

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Gabe do you dislike DU, RMEF, mule deer foundation, PF...etc? 

If god didn't want us to eat animals....he wouldn't have made them out of food.

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wstnodak Said:
Gabe do you dislike DU, RMEF, mule deer foundation, PF...etc? 

i think they have pluses and minuses but if they added strippers to the banquets it would probably tip them more to the plus side......i guess it would really depend on the quality they brought in like is it the hop scotch in ft pierre or Dejavu kind of talent is the real question?

i got the slogan for the rmef " Racks for Racks"   or DU  "hooters for honkers"  tell me that is not gold right there full of winning!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 Adn

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For some reason I always get a picture of a little kid standing with his fingers in his ears singing at the top of his voice with his eyes closed in my mind everytime you want to dance this dance ron.
 

No wonder you are looking in a mirror~~!!!!!!!!!!

Shut up or answer!!! Not to hard to figure out!

In my lifetime I have seen fence row to fence row farming and the return of CRP and game to the landscape.Now we face again the prosepect of fence row to fence row again! Sportsman are our own worst enemy in that we fail to look forward and focus to much on the now!

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Them are some pretty saaweeeet tits!

 

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KurtR Said:
 

wstnodak Said:
Gabe do you dislike DU, RMEF, mule deer foundation, PF...etc? 

i think they have pluses and minuses but if they added strippers to the banquets it would probably tip them more to the plus side......i guess it would really depend on the quality they brought in like is it the hop scotch in ft pierre or Dejavu kind of talent is the real question?

i got the slogan for the rmef " Racks for Racks"   or DU  "hooters for honkers"  tell me that is not gold right there full of winning!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I was thinking BIG HONKING HOOTERS, but your idea is better

                                                                                                                         

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 I will personally donate my time as talent scout for these banquets.  Maybe we can get a panel of judges from here as it seems a few others have an eye for it.

 Adn

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Neat

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KurtR Said:
 

wstnodak Said:
Gabe do you dislike DU, RMEF, mule deer foundation, PF...etc? 

i think they have pluses and minuses but if they added strippers to the banquets it would probably tip them more to the plus side......i guess it would really depend on the quality they brought in like is it the hop scotch in ft pierre or Dejavu kind of talent is the real question?

i got the slogan for the rmef " Racks for Racks"   or DU  "hooters for honkers"  tell me that is not gold right there full of winning!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Used to have some "professional"  help selling raffle tickets at our local pheasnat club banquet. Sales went up dramatically, then suddenly fell off when a higher turn out of wives and gf suddenly started showing up.

 

West, I do not like many of their policies and how they go about accomplishing them. Used to actually belong to RMEF for a while years ago until I took the time to learn abit about them. Some people in these orgs are pretty good and would work cooperatively with ag and others but within each of those orgs is a faction that wishes to return the prairies to an undisturbed native state (buffalo commons) or other radical goals and actively seek means to pursue them.

Typically they are the guys throwing the most monies around so they gain a bit of traction within the org.  Probably 10 or 12 years ago one of the DU national big wigs wrote an article about how to go about accomplishing these in their magazine.

So now I really do not have much time for them.

Check out a few other outdoor sites on the web and more and more people that once belonged feel the same way.

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this is funnny

I'll catch more eye's than you

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Ron thinks ranchers should build barns or shelters for all their livestock,

http://www.fishingbuddy.com/cattle_losses_in_sd_are_going_to_be_huge_from_this?app_p=4

Ron said,

I am again going to say this as clearly as possible. Like it or not, in the northern tier of this country temps and conditions do not warrant not having adequate shelter for the animals you are running. No doubt that shelter can be natural as well as man made. It is however shelter.
 

Ron, if a rancher buys a parcel with an easement on the land and it says the land shall not be developed, meaning no barnbuilding...........How is he going to get his animals inside in the event of a storm?

There is just so much unhappiness in your life Ron.

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Fritz then it would be stupid to buy that land if the intent was to put up a shelter, same as it would to buy land with a wetland easement then piss and moan that you cannot drain it or farm it if that is against the easement.

You need a better one than that, and once more are you going to answer or be a chicken shit and avoid it!

By the way you sure tried to spin a line of bull crap with your letter to the editor again!!

In the light of full disclosure why did you not include your current and past positions with the ag interests so that people would have a full and true understanding of where your line was coming from, after all that is what you are crying about!

In my lifetime I have seen fence row to fence row farming and the return of CRP and game to the landscape.Now we face again the prosepect of fence row to fence row again! Sportsman are our own worst enemy in that we fail to look forward and focus to much on the now!

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 I don't need any professional wildlife conservationist, government agency or non-profit telling me how to run my operation.  At the same time I do not appreciate my neighbor who has drained his land onto mine telling me I can't sell an easement to protect my land from ever being purchased and managed.  If my kids want to sell my land when I go, I am more comfortable that my neighbor that has been coveting my land can't come in and undo what I have spent years creating.  So what is wrong with me having that option?

Hunt_Fish31

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Hunt_Fish31,

If you want to put a 20 year easement on your property you will not meet any resistance from this camp.

Ron said,


Fritz then it would be stupid to buy that land if the intent was to put up a shelter, same as it would to buy land with a wetland easement then piss and moan that you cannot drain it or farm it if that is against the easement.

 

The Clean Water Wildlife Parks Petition seeks 5% of the oil extraction tax to be diverted away from the General Treasury and then be placed into their coffers. At current levels the number is around $100 million per year. But, the number of barrels of oil are expected to rise and the 5% could reach to more then $200 million per year. Ron, with that much money they could increase the offer amount for perpetual easements making it enticing.
 
After 25 years, the question then becomes, will there be any land that won't have an easement on it? Build a barn to get those poor cattle in out of a blizzard. Forget about it.

Fargo wants to build a diversion around the city. If the landowners in its path simply donated an easement to a non-profit that would be the end all. That is what easements do; kill progress. 

By the way you sure tried to spin a line of bull crap with your letter to the editor again!!

 

If you didn't like my letter to the editor, then I must be doing something right.

In the light of full disclosure why did you not include your current and past positions with the ag interests so that people would have a full and true understanding of where your line was coming from, after all that is what you are crying about!

Ron, Roger Kaseman also wrote a letter to the editor opposing the 5% oil revenue rip off. Will you be hounding him also to disclose who he is? Didn't think so.

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Hunt_Fish31 Said:
 I don't need any professional wildlife conservationist, government agency or non-profit telling me how to run my operation.  At the same time I do not appreciate my neighbor who has drained his land onto mine telling me I can't sell an easement to protect my land from ever being purchased and managed.  If my kids want to sell my land when I go, I am more comfortable that my neighbor that has been coveting my land can't come in and undo what I have spent years creating.  So what is wrong with me having that option?

First, if he has truly drained his land onto yours there are recourses thru the State Water Commission. Second, the state say you may indeed place an easement on that land up to 99 years unless it is with a Federal agency which perpetual easement  as a result of a court ruling.

99 years is a loooooooong time. Know anyone 99 years old? Think what the state was like 99 years ago and what was going on. The state believes that we should be able ot address issues at least once every 99 years to see if things have changed and we need to readdress things.

I tend to agree, and I would offer a 40 year easement which most times would be a single generation is a pretty long time as well.

That way each generation gets the same opportunity every generation has.

If your neighbor is that big of a worry, simply write a trust that instructs your kids of your wishes. Allows for your wishers to be carried out without a govt or nonprofit telling your kids what they can or can;t do either.

If you " don't need any professional wildlife conservationist, government agency or non-profit telling me how to run my operation." I have to ask, why would you think your kids would either?

Hey I agree with you on that !
 

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Fritz easements would not and will not stop the diversion but nice try!  But hunt-fish puts it right where it is at. His neighbor or someone from the other side of the state should not be allowed to tell him what he can do with his land.  So if we are going to allow separation from the land easements should not be treated any differently.

NEXT GENERATION nor next possible owner DOES NOT HAVE A  FIDUCIARY INTEREST in the property
! To put it in clearer terms. Fritz cannot buy life insurance on me or former Gov Schafer as an example without a Fiduciary interest.  They most certainly have no rights implied or not on land owned by others today!

They lose no rights either because when they buy the land or inherit it, they only get what is being sold which does not include the control of the easement.

This is why Fritz trying to use land outside of right of use is not allowed and not an argument that you really want to try and push!! Anyone with a brain can see through that! Pun intended!

ALSO ANWSER THE QUESTION PUT TO YOU OR SHUT GIRLS!!!

In my lifetime I have seen fence row to fence row farming and the return of CRP and game to the landscape.Now we face again the prosepect of fence row to fence row again! Sportsman are our own worst enemy in that we fail to look forward and focus to much on the now!

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gst Said:

KurtR Said:
 

wstnodak Said:
Gabe do you dislike DU, RMEF, mule deer foundation, PF...etc? 

i think they have pluses and minuses but if they added strippers to the banquets it would probably tip them more to the plus side......i guess it would really depend on the quality they brought in like is it the hop scotch in ft pierre or Dejavu kind of talent is the real question?

i got the slogan for the rmef " Racks for Racks"   or DU  "hooters for honkers"  tell me that is not gold right there full of winning!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Used to have some "professional"  help selling raffle tickets at our local pheasnat club banquet. Sales went up dramatically, then suddenly fell off when a higher turn out of wives and gf suddenly started showing up.

 

West, I do not like many of their policies and how they go about accomplishing them. Used to actually belong to RMEF for a while years ago until I took the time to learn abit about them. Some people in these orgs are pretty good and would work cooperatively with ag and others but within each of those orgs is a faction that wishes to return the prairies to an undisturbed native state (buffalo commons) or other radical goals and actively seek means to pursue them.

Typically they are the guys throwing the most monies around so they gain a bit of traction within the org.  Probably 10 or 12 years ago one of the DU national big wigs wrote an article about how to go about accomplishing these in their magazine.

So now I really do not have much time for them.

Check out a few other outdoor sites on the web and more and more people that once belonged feel the same way.

I do and have not noticed this trend.  Maybe you can show me some examples? 

Although I do not agree with everything these organizations do, I believe they do a hell of a lot more good than bad.  Get rid of them all and then what do we have?  We need peoples like this who are concerned and proactive about the future of hunting.  Once again I don't speak for myself, I speak for the kid who is not going to be able to afford to pay to hunt in the future.  When we loose hunting due to no place to hunt or too expensive then we start to loose hunting all together.  When that happens the radicals will move on to other things....like ranching.

You are using an article written 10-12 years ago about how to achieve buffalo common status in the US as your ammo to discredit DU?  Really gabe?  Pull up some articles written by some of the big wig FB guys and see how scary they look to the average sportsman. 

If god didn't want us to eat animals....he wouldn't have made them out of food.

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http://www.quebecoislibre.org/020316-5.htm

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/250927/3

http://www.thewildlifenews.com/2012/07/25/creator-of-the-olaus-j-murie-a...

http://www.flyrodreel.com/blogs/tedwilliams/2012/august/rocky-mountain-f...

http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/big-game-hunting/126932-rmef-wolves-2.html

http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2012/jul/22/scientists-family-slams-elk...

west, it seems RMEF can not make up their mind about the wolf.  I would guess that their policy settled on where the monies come from.

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/4989710/a...

"I'm just curious how other chapters are doing. I worked with our local group for about 10 yrs and have backed off and simply attended for about the last six. Our event used to pack in about 300+ and there was about a 3-year wait for those who had not attended previoulsy to gain entry.

The last 4 years have seen a gradual decline, and last night there were about 120 folks present with a potential to just walk in at the last minute. Several early supporters abandoned our chapter when the fine banquet rifle went from an auction item to a raffle chance. They were folks that were competitive bidders, and if they truly wanted the rifle, they would pay the price. "

"I am a life member of the RMEF and live in western PA. I have been active as a committee person for may years. Yes, our banquet numbers have been in decline for several years, but so has our local economy.

Also, the RMEF did not do themselves any favors in PA when they pulled their support from The Elk Visitors Center near Benezette, PA. Several chapters folded and a spin-off group formed called the PA Elk Alliance. Many former RMEF members went with them.

Our local RMEF banquet is next Saturday and we expect between 150 and 200 attendees. That is down from 300 to 350 from the '07 or '08 years."

"RMEF was not "complacent" on the wolf issue--they were COMPLICIT and there is a huge difference between complacent and complicit. Had RMEF simply been complacent, I'd not have this issue with them, but they endorsed and encouraged the wolf dumping. Further and perhaps more important is that most of the money raised by RMEF goes to purchasing lands that are then given to govt agnecies. IF you are OK with govt agnecies controlling more and more private land, then simply keep donating to RMEF...............

I'm just stunned at this....that trained biologists with RMEF could not know the carnage these wolves would create....and that their proliferation would come on the backs of the elk, moose herds that sportsmen's dollars had created through sound management programs over many years.

All the more ironic that the same sportsmen helped RMEF raise the money to fund the purchase of the lands they turned over to the Feds,and made RMEF a political force whose endorsements no doubt helped foster the wolf introduction.

If RMEF were a Trustee of the sportsmen whose money went to both "causes",they would be guilty of a serious conflict of interest and breach of their fiduciary duty to these same sportsmen.

Knowing this,I am regreting that I devoted as much time and energy as I did for the RMEF Chapter in my local area."

West even on this site it has been mentioned before.

http://www.fishingbuddy.com/ducks_unlimited_opinions

You wish to dismiss the ideologies of people within these orgs because it suits your goals. Others have different opinions.

What is DU's membership here in ND now as opposed to 20 years ago?

I know of several small towns that used to hold DU banquets that no longer do becuase they got fed up with DU policies.

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Hardwaterman Said:
Fritz easements would not and will not stop the diversion but nice try! 

How then can they stop mater management of ag lands?

How then can they stop oil developement?

Hardwaterman Said:
 But hunt-fish puts it right where it is at. His neighbor or someone from the other side of the state should not be allowed to tell him what he can do with his land.  S

ron,  a little clarification to what was actually said that you forgot to mention. 

Hunt_Fish31 Said:
 I don't need any professional wildlife conservationist, government agency or non-profit telling me how to run my operation.  At the same time I do not appreciate my neighbor who has drained his land onto mine telling me I can't sell an easement to protect my land from ever being purchased and managed.  If my kids want to sell my land when I go, I am more comfortable that my neighbor that has been coveting my land can't come in and undo what I have spent years creating.  So what is wrong with me having that option?

And we still have not heard an answer to this question.

gst Said:

If you " don't need any professional wildlife conservationist, government agency or non-profit telling me how to run my operation." I have to ask, why would you think your kids would either?

Or their kids, kids or their kids, kids, kids or their kids,kids,kids, kids and so on until the end of time.

Because no matter how you slice it, deflect it, twist it, lie about it, once a perpetual easement is signed Hunt_Fish31's  kids, grand kids, great grand kids and on and on and on,,,,, will never have the opportunity/right to say what he has, " I don't need any professional wildlife conservationist, government agency or non-profit telling me how to run my operation."

That is a fact ron even you can not deny.

So do you think some professional wildlife conservationist, government agency or non-profit telling me how to run my operation, will go over with his kids down the road any better than it does with Hunt_Fish31 today?

Once again, that is why I oppose perpetual easements.

"greedy" as hell I know, but some of us do not want to tie our kids hands and take away their choices, the same ones we had, as readily as you do.

Some of us believe that by instilling the values of conservation we are better off than forcing them onto the next generation.

What person is more likely to support conservation down the road, one that was taught to support it and the value of it or one that has it thrown in his face and beat over their heads with it  by orgs like DU, The Nature Conservancy, the National Wildlife Federation and RMEF telling them they can not do with his own lands as he wishes as they file lawsuits to prevent it alongside their perpetual easements and purchasing lands with tax dollars. .

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ron what would happen with a USF&WS easement within the Fargo diversion?

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Just answer the question put to you gst or shut up already!

In my lifetime I have seen fence row to fence row farming and the return of CRP and game to the landscape.Now we face again the prosepect of fence row to fence row again! Sportsman are our own worst enemy in that we fail to look forward and focus to much on the now!

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This is a new tactic, continue to demand an answer to a question that has been answered 15 times already to deflect having to answer questions ones self.

Hardwaterman Said:

WHY DO YOU OPPOSE PERMANENT CONSERVATION, LAND PURCHASED OR VIA EASEMENTS!

gst Said:

Hardwaterman Said:
 But hunt-fish puts it right where it is at. His neighbor or someone from the other side of the state should not be allowed to tell him what he can do with his land.  S

ron,  a little clarification to what was actually said that you forgot to mention. 

Hunt_Fish31 Said:
 I don't need any professional wildlife conservationist, government agency or non-profit telling me how to run my operation.  At the same time I do not appreciate my neighbor who has drained his land onto mine telling me I can't sell an easement to protect my land from ever being purchased and managed.  If my kids want to sell my land when I go, I am more comfortable that my neighbor that has been coveting my land can't come in and undo what I have spent years creating.  So what is wrong with me having that option?

And we still have not heard an answer to this question.

gst Said:

If you " don't need any professional wildlife conservationist, government agency or non-profit telling me how to run my operation." I have to ask, why would you think your kids would either?

Or their kids, kids or their kids, kids, kids or their kids,kids,kids, kids and so on until the end of time.

Because no matter how you slice it, deflect it, twist it, lie about it, once a perpetual easement is signed Hunt_Fish31's  kids, grand kids, great grand kids and on and on and on,,,,, will never have the opportunity/right to say what he has, " I don't need any professional wildlife conservationist, government agency or non-profit telling me how to run my operation."

That is a fact ron even you can not deny.

So do you think some professional wildlife conservationist, government agency or non-profit telling me how to run my operation, will go over with his kids down the road any better than it does with Hunt_Fish31 today?

Once again, that is why I oppose perpetual easements.

"greedy" as hell I know, but some of us do not want to tie our kids hands and take away their choices, the same ones we had, as readily as you do.

Some of us believe that by instilling the values of conservation we are better off than forcing them onto the next generation.

What person is more likely to support conservation down the road, one that was taught to support it and the value of it or one that has it thrown in his face and beat over their heads with it  by orgs like DU, The Nature Conservancy, the National Wildlife Federation and RMEF telling them they can not do with his own lands as he wishes as they file lawsuits to prevent it alongside their perpetual easements and purchasing lands with tax dollars. .

Ron, please take the time to read the emboldened enlarged statement as a part of a bigger answer. If you do not understand that concept enough to accept that as an answer why I oppose "permanant conservation via perpetual easements" ...................................

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gst Said:
http://www.quebecoislibre.org/020316-5.htm

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/250927/3

http://www.thewildlifenews.com/2012/07/25/creator-of-the-olaus-j-murie-a...

http://www.flyrodreel.com/blogs/tedwilliams/2012/august/rocky-mountain-f...

http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/big-game-hunting/126932-rmef-wolves-2.html

http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2012/jul/22/scientists-family-slams-elk...

west, it seems RMEF can not make up their mind about the wolf.  I would guess that their policy settled on where the monies come from.

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/4989710/a...

"I'm just curious how other chapters are doing. I worked with our local group for about 10 yrs and have backed off and simply attended for about the last six. Our event used to pack in about 300+ and there was about a 3-year wait for those who had not attended previoulsy to gain entry.

The last 4 years have seen a gradual decline, and last night there were about 120 folks present with a potential to just walk in at the last minute. Several early supporters abandoned our chapter when the fine banquet rifle went from an auction item to a raffle chance. They were folks that were competitive bidders, and if they truly wanted the rifle, they would pay the price. "

"I am a life member of the RMEF and live in western PA. I have been active as a committee person for may years. Yes, our banquet numbers have been in decline for several years, but so has our local economy.

Also, the RMEF did not do themselves any favors in PA when they pulled their support from The Elk Visitors Center near Benezette, PA. Several chapters folded and a spin-off group formed called the PA Elk Alliance. Many former RMEF members went with them.

Our local RMEF banquet is next Saturday and we expect between 150 and 200 attendees. That is down from 300 to 350 from the '07 or '08 years."

"RMEF was not "complacent" on the wolf issue--they were COMPLICIT and there is a huge difference between complacent and complicit. Had RMEF simply been complacent, I'd not have this issue with them, but they endorsed and encouraged the wolf dumping. Further and perhaps more important is that most of the money raised by RMEF goes to purchasing lands that are then given to govt agnecies. IF you are OK with govt agnecies controlling more and more private land, then simply keep donating to RMEF...............

I'm just stunned at this....that trained biologists with RMEF could not know the carnage these wolves would create....and that their proliferation would come on the backs of the elk, moose herds that sportsmen's dollars had created through sound management programs over many years.

All the more ironic that the same sportsmen helped RMEF raise the money to fund the purchase of the lands they turned over to the Feds,and made RMEF a political force whose endorsements no doubt helped foster the wolf introduction.

If RMEF were a Trustee of the sportsmen whose money went to both "causes",they would be guilty of a serious conflict of interest and breach of their fiduciary duty to these same sportsmen.

Knowing this,I am regreting that I devoted as much time and energy as I did for the RMEF Chapter in my local area."

West even on this site it has been mentioned before.

http://www.fishingbuddy.com/ducks_unlimited_opinions

You wish to dismiss the ideologies of people within these orgs because it suits your goals. Others have different opinions.

What is DU's membership here in ND now as opposed to 20 years ago?

I know of several small towns that used to hold DU banquets that no longer do becuase they got fed up with DU policies.

Well gabe you have about 6 maybe 7 examples there.  How many RMEF and or DU members are there in the good old USA?  Hardly the epidemic you make it out to be.  As mentioned in one of your copy and paste's above, there has been a decrease in membership directly related to the poor economy.  No doubt this same trend is noticed in many different groups throughout the nation.  Your lying and twisting words are not going to make one iota of difference.  It is comical though.

If god didn't want us to eat animals....he wouldn't have made them out of food.

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Permanent Conservation is one part of the question, perpetual easements was the other part of the question.

You in typical fashion have avoided answering the most important!

So address that part or shut up!

In my lifetime I have seen fence row to fence row farming and the return of CRP and game to the landscape.Now we face again the prosepect of fence row to fence row again! Sportsman are our own worst enemy in that we fail to look forward and focus to much on the now!

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west, don't believe I suggested it was an "epidemic", simply that people were changing their minds about these orgs, because of their policies

How many DU members are there in ND today as opposed to 20 years ago?

I am asking as I don;t know, maybe you are right and there is way more and not less, why not find out and post the numbers?

I do know that a couple towns around us that used to have large DU banquets no longer do and the "economy" here in ND is much better now than when they were having them.

I know for a fact that it is because of DU's policies because I am friends with the people that used to put them on and were members that no longer are.

West a couple of articles that list DU memberships do not know if they are factual or not.

2003
http://al.rodngun.com/articles/articles.asp?cmd=view&StoryID=547
From an economical standpoint, DU, with more than 712,000 members worldwide,

2013
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ducks_Unlimited
Ducks Unlimited (DU) is an international nonprofit organization dedicated to the conservation of wetlands and associated upland habitats for waterfowl, other wildlife, and people. It had roughly 597,000 members as of January 2012

http://www.biggamehunt.net/forum/i-canceled-my-ducks-unlimited-membership

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Hardwaterman Said:
Permanent Conservation is one part of the question, perpetual easements was the other part of the question.

You in typical fashion have avoided answering the most important!

So address that part or shut up!

so what "part" have I not answered now ?

Just so we can all follow along, does this mean you do believe I have "answered" "part" of your question?
I thought a "perpetual" easement was kinda "permanent"?

Perhaps that is the problem here ron you do not know what "perpetual" means!

  • per·pet·u·al
  • [ pər péchoo əl ]
  1. lasting forever: lasting for all time
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ron if we throw open the doors wide to nonprofit buying land here in ND without going thru the process the state has, it would also allow nonprofits like this to purchase lands here as well.

http://hswlt.org/

So ron, do you support HSUS being able to buy lands here in ND?

As a sportsman do you think this is a good idea?  I wonder how many sportsmen would agree with you?

Ron one question, why do we regulate the "right" to use the land however someone may wish?

To avoid negative consequences to others. The state says I can not come onto a property across the road from your home and build a feedlot. I understand this.

Building a feedlot there would not negatively affect me (other than the everyday bitching that would occur) but it would negatively affect you, so the state says even if I own that land, I can not build a feedlot effectively restricting my right to "do what ever I wish with my owned lands"

Ron, even if I have owned that land for decades and you buy the quarter next to it and move onto it, unless this land has been previously zoned agricultural, I likely can not build my feedlot on land I own because of state set back laws.

It is my opinion, just as there are benefits to regulating the "right" of usage of lands, there is benefits to regulating the "right" of ownership of lands to avoid negative consequences as well.

While you may not think the sale of lands to a nonprofit org like HSUS may negatively affect you, it may negatively affect someone else so the state regulates this "right" just as they regulate the "right" of land usage.

Whether you like or accept it ron, the state agrees. And I would guess if most sportsmen are honest, while they may want DU to buy land here in ND they would not want HSUS buying land here either.

But then ron even YOU in a small window of honesty have admitted you would like the state to continue to restrict ADM, Cargill and other corporations from buying lands here in ND as the corp farming law was originally set up to do.

So ron why do you support THAT restriction on land ownership but demand your nonprofits have the "right" to buy land?

It appears you would deny me the right to "sell to whomever I please" if it is ADM, but you demand that same right if it is DU.

Perhaps YOU are the one that should answer some questions here ron or "shut the hell up".


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You continue to spin and avoid the question put to you and expect others to answer? Like I said before answer and we can move forward!!!!

So like it or not you are still being a chicken shit! But I will answer one thing in regards to who should be allowed to own property. There should not be a special class which is what the founding fathers understood and fought against. You want to be a special class, but do not want to admit to riding the short bus!

Again why do you oppose permanent conservation outside of easements? Tell us again and your BS about opportunity for future kids etc is bs because I can use the same argument in stating that I want my kids and grand kids and great, great , great grand kids to see native prairie that has never had a plow in it as well! Think my view is just as valid as yours!!!!  

In my lifetime I have seen fence row to fence row farming and the return of CRP and game to the landscape.Now we face again the prosepect of fence row to fence row again! Sportsman are our own worst enemy in that we fail to look forward and focus to much on the now!

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 i bet the kids would enjoy looking at that native grass while eating some romen noodles.

 Adn

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KurtR Said:
 i bet the kids would enjoy looking at that native grass while eating some romen noodles.

More likely a piece of sausage made from the beef that grazed the land!!

In my lifetime I have seen fence row to fence row farming and the return of CRP and game to the landscape.Now we face again the prosepect of fence row to fence row again! Sportsman are our own worst enemy in that we fail to look forward and focus to much on the now!

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 cant its in an perpetual easment no grazing allowed but they can have beef flavored roman

 Adn

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Neat

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Neat

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 f stand for fantastic right?

 Adn

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KurtR Said:
 f stand for fantastic right?

Neat

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Hardwaterman Said:

Again why do you oppose permanent conservation outside of easements? Tell us again and your BS about opportunity for future kids !!  

ron you seem to admit I have answered this portion of your question as well.

but yet you STILL try to claim I have not.

Hardwaterman Said:
You continue to spin and avoid the question put to you and expect others to answer? Like I said before answer and we can move forward!!!!

So like it or not you are still being a chicken shit!

But then at least now we know why you continually claim I have not answered.

Hardwaterman Said:
 Tell us again and your BS about opportunity for future kids etc is bs

you seem to think my answer is bs. Just because you do not agree ron, does not mean I have not answered. Unless your view is the only way to think.

Hardwaterman Said:
 Think my view is just as valid as yours!!!!  

Indeed one opinion can carry as much weight as another ron, but the state makes the laws and they have weighed the people of North Dakotas opinions as their elected representatives and said the state should regulate not only land usage but land sales to prevent negative consequences to others.

Hardwaterman Said:
Think my view is just as valid as yours!!!!  

ron, there asre people who believe if they own the land they should be able to build a feedlot no matter who lives where.

Do you hold the same "view" on this land usage? Why is YOUR view there any more valid than theirs?

Because the state says so.

So now that you have admitted that I have answered both parts of your question how about going back and answering mine?

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KurtR Said:
 cant its in an perpetual easment no grazing allowed but they can have beef flavored roman

And there is the dirty little secret ron and Loyd Jones and others do not want people to know about the perpetual easements the USF&WS is trying to engage people in.

The USF&WS retains the right to change the rules of the perpetual easement after it is signed and the signer can not do anything about it unless they wish to file a takings claim in court which takes hundreds of thousands if not millions of dollars to pursue because they they usually end up in the SCOTUS.

Loyd Jones admitted this at the meeting they held in Minot.

Most guys grazing cattle on these lands do not have that kind of monies to pursue these cases to the end. 

This is not readily advertised and it took a bit of doing to get Loyd to admit it.

So there is simply no assurance that when a perpetual easement is signed with the USF&WS that cattle will be able to graze those lands. There is no assurances they would let you build a barn to calve those cows in on that land.

There were agreements made on many Federal lands that there would always be grazing allowed when the Federal govt bought or took them over and now what is happening across the west. In less than 3 generations that is changing and that promise is being broken.

So why should anyone believe these perpetual easements with the Federal govt will be any different when they admit when backed in a corner they have the authority to change them?
You have to have pretty good eye sight to see that little tidbit in their contracts.

Don;t believe me, call up Loyd Jones, perhaps between trying to sell this measure he can fill you in.

So ron if you think opposing these type of perpetual easements (they only ones floating around) where one side has the ability to change the terms is "bs", so be it.

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You are really a spin master!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You have answered the issue and question on easements!!! I call it a BS answer but an answer none the less!

You have avoided the issue of permanent conservation that is not connected to an easement!!!!!!!!!!!

So stop being a chicken shit and answer that!!!!

Nothing you have said gives us a clear view as to why this is bad or detrimental since I have said that with this type I do believe that local tax issues have to be addressed and could be. So why then?
Clear enough for you or is this still to confusing for you to grasp!! That question you have continually avoided!!!

In my lifetime I have seen fence row to fence row farming and the return of CRP and game to the landscape.Now we face again the prosepect of fence row to fence row again! Sportsman are our own worst enemy in that we fail to look forward and focus to much on the now!

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ron why do YOU oppose ADM and Cargill owning land in North Dakota?


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YOU answer the question put to you then we can move forward. Got it! Nothing but questions from you and no answers so to speak!

Cowardly, chickenshit behavior in your avoidance!

In my lifetime I have seen fence row to fence row farming and the return of CRP and game to the landscape.Now we face again the prosepect of fence row to fence row again! Sportsman are our own worst enemy in that we fail to look forward and focus to much on the now!

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Hardwaterman Said:

YOU answer the question put to you then we can move forward. Got it! Nothing but questions from you and no answers so to speak!

Cowardly, chickenshit behavior in your avoidance!

You admit perpetual easements takes away the right to do with ones land as they wish, then turn around and claim that right never existed because it was taken away.

You admit I answer both parts of your question and then go on insisting I have not answered them.

ron are you bipolar?

Or perhaps you are a "cowardly chickenshit" that refuses to acknowledge an answer that make abit of sense just because it does not suit your agenda.

So ron why do you wish to keep corps. like ADM from buying land in ND?

In case your bipolar hits you did admit to that ron.

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holy sh-t that got real, carry on

I'll catch more eye's than you

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