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guywhofishes Said:

permo Said:

KurtR Said:
I thought flood insurance had 30 day waiting period before it comes into effect?

Yes it does, but take a look at the information, the proverbial $hit, isn't going to really hit the fan until the end of june when the mountain snowpack runnoff peaks. .  I took my policy out 4 days ago and I am glad I did because the timing looks about right.

Personally I hope they go to 100kcfs sooner than later to make room for all that melt.

The current forecast has Sak at 1853.9 on July 12th..............

I just heard the flood insurance has to be purchased 30 days prior to the flood alert being made?

(550 am)

That's what I am hearing. 

If anyone is interested they need to be on 550 KFYR at 1:00 pm when someone regarding insurance will get on the radio.


 

 

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guywhofishes Said:

permo Said:

KurtR Said:
I thought flood insurance had 30 day waiting period before it comes into effect?

Yes it does, but take a look at the information, the proverbial $hit, isn't going to really hit the fan until the end of june when the mountain snowpack runnoff peaks. .  I took my policy out 4 days ago and I am glad I did because the timing looks about right.

Personally I hope they go to 100kcfs sooner than later to make room for all that melt.

The current forecast has Sak at 1853.9 on July 12th..............

I just heard the flood insurance has to be purchased 30 days prior to the flood alert being made?

(550 am)

Here is my main thought with this flood insurance. Flood Insurance is for overland flooding only so alot of these people where the water starts coming up through the soil are still going to be SOL. Next question is Flood insurance is for natural disastors but since this flood is being created by a controlled release will that cause and issue. Not really sure. Either way going to be a mess.

Walleye SWAT Team

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Tim Sandstrom Said:

guywhofishes Said:

permo Said:

KurtR Said:
I thought flood insurance had 30 day waiting period before it comes into effect?

Yes it does, but take a look at the information, the proverbial $hit, isn't going to really hit the fan until the end of june when the mountain snowpack runnoff peaks. .  I took my policy out 4 days ago and I am glad I did because the timing looks about right.

Personally I hope they go to 100kcfs sooner than later to make room for all that melt.

The current forecast has Sak at 1853.9 on July 12th..............

I just heard the flood insurance has to be purchased 30 days prior to the flood alert being made?

(550 am)

That's what I am hearing. 

If anyone is interested they need to be on 550 KFYR at 1:00 pm when someone regarding insurance will get on the radio.

If I heard right here's the deal:
If you bought insurance today, but you don't get damage until 31 days from today, it sounds like it WON'T BE COVERED because the cutoff day is the day the alert was made!

It's not the day the damage was done, it's the day they sound the alert.

I didn't know that - I'll keep it in mind next year in my neck of the woods!

 

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Adam Hamm is going to be on Joel's show in a little bit so be sure to tune in folks if you can.  I will try to keep track of it and write what is said.


 

 

Kirsch's Outdoor Products | Fargo, ND | 701-261-9017 Garmin GPS Hunting Maps
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 Not sounding good for those who didn't have flood insurance before May....  

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Folks, if you are buying insurance you need to be COMPLETELY AWARE that YOU WILL NOT BE COVERED.

So if anyone is selling you insurance they do not know their own business or they are crooked.  I hope they simply are not aware.

But at this time the federal government is saying people will not be covered because of how this flood event is being perceived.

The question is if you can get a refund.  And to me, the bigger question is if you can buy and THEN get a refund if you are NOT covered.  I say this because it would not be good if you bought insurance and couldn't get a refund even after being told later you CANNOT be reimbursed damage.

The other thing is if they do in fact change their tune and allow people to be covered that you DO BUY.

At 1:00 pm people need to be by the radio to here the federal boys talk on this.

Wow, what a mess.


 

 

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I know all this talk about CFS is fun and very interesting but i just heard some very very disgusting news.  I heard from a very credible source from someone who works very high in a government agency that all this has nothing to do with draw downs and water levels and precipitation.  He said that the reason the CORPS did not draw the big lake down was to protect the interest of the special interest groups to protect the animals along the Missouri and their reproduction.  Bald eagles and other birds that use the shores and sand bars to reproduce.  This will never hit the news as nobody would want to admitt that all this damage is because of the tree hugging libbs that wanted to save their birds. I thought this country was founed on the majority.  These special interest groups now have more power than the majority and that is the reason Bismarck is going through what its going through.  WOW  cant wait to go bird watching.  This made me sick.

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icefreak Said:
I know all this talk about CFS is fun and very interesting but i just heard some very very disgusting news.  I heard from a very credible source from someone who works very high in a government agency that all this has nothing to do with draw downs and water levels and precipitation.  He said that the reason the CORPS did not draw the big lake down was to protect the interest of the special interest groups to protect the animals along the Missouri and their reproduction.  Bald eagles and other birds that use the shores and sand bars to reproduce.  This will never hit the news as nobody would want to admitt that all this damage is because of the tree hugging libbs that wanted to save their birds. I thought this country was founed on the majority.  These special interest groups now have more power than the majority and that is the reason Bismarck is going through what its going through.  WOW  cant wait to go bird watching.  This made me sick.

I won't buy into this because even I will give more credit to the special interest groups than that.  If this is their thought then they are idiots because by not releasing water they BY THEIR OWN HAND are the CAUSE OF THE problem.  Talk about dumb.

The reason the lake and the system in general is in trouble is because we got 6 to 12 inches of rain in four days time (a two week period).  People seem to always think snow is the only thing that matters.  Well, if they want it in a snow perspective that is equal to 72 to 144 inches of snow and it melted two minutes later.

That's why we have water problems.


 

 

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In writing what I did i knew i would get tore apart.  The only questions i have is why was this lake not drawn down months ago then to give it some holding room.  We have had big rains and snow ever since the dam was build. The lake has been very high for over a year now and the were told they cant dump it.  Bottom line is this lake should have had room to hold the melt and a big rain.  In 50+yrs of managing the damn they know what to expect in terms of melt water and rain.  It just makes sence they were told they cant dump it. 

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The dam has never failed us for 60 years of existence.  Never.

Never say never.

Why is that true?  Because large square mile chunks of MT and WY received epic proportions of rain.  I mean epic.  Never ever seen before rains.  Remember, never say never.

As I said, rains of 6 to 12 inches of rain fell.  The most common ratio for snow if it is wet or a good water to snow ratio is 1 inch of rain equals 12 inches of snow.

So that is 72 to 144 inches of snow that fell in MT and WY.  And that fell through a monster square mile region.  Plus, heavy rains fell for ND and SD and ALL THROUGHOUT THE MISSOURI RIVER BASIN ALL THE WAY TO THE MISSISSIPPI RIVER.

That means a lot of water.

The Corp was set to release dang near record releases the way it was to deal with the snow pack.  They would have GLADLY sent more water sooner but when the system DOWNSTREAM is full you CANNOT send water like a drunken sailor.

So when we get smacked with 72 to 144 inches of snow (I am using snow so people put it into perspective) there is LITTLE that can be done.  At that moment it is crunch time and we all know crunch time for folks that build, reside or whatever along a river in a flood plain never, ever win.  Remember, never say never.

Now with all that said, I'd like to see the numbers.  What would make everyone happy?  The Corp to send 40,000 through the dam during the middle of winter?  What would people say if an ice jam would have occurred?  I'm sure the Corp would have been tore apart.

Okay, so lets not send that much during the winter.  Lets just send 40,000 plus during the month of March and April.  Do you guys realize how much room that would have made?  NOT MUCH.  Even if we sent 60,000 it still wouldn't have made much room.  Bismarck would STILL see releases of up to 80,000 with this rain.

It is just unprecedented times since the dam first backed water up.  I do not know what the Corp could have done different.  I really don't.  But the Corp is going to be asked the question and they are going to have to provide an answer.  I bet it won't be much different from what I said.  You simply do not plan for annual rain totals in a two week period of time and you certainly do not plan for 140 to 180 percent of normal snow pack.  They have room factored in for heavy rain events but man, these are not heavy rain events we just had.  They are epic.
 


 

 

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icefreak Said:
In writing what I did i knew i would get tore apart.  The only questions i have is why was this lake not drawn down months ago then to give it some holding room.  We have had big rains and snow ever since the dam was build. The lake has been very high for over a year now and the were told they cant dump it.  Bottom line is this lake should have had room to hold the melt and a big rain.  In 50+yrs of managing the damn they know what to expect in terms of melt water and rain.  It just makes sence they were told they cant dump it. 

 
There are interests that fight a draw down in the spring.   I think the G&
F wants a constant or rising elevation for the spawn and maybe for bird nesting on sand bars on the river?  Then there is/was the Mississippi River flooding that didnt help either but I'm not sure what difference an additional 60,000 cfs would make when it was flowing at 2,000,000 cfs

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icefreak Said:
In writing what I did i knew i would get tore apart.  The only questions i have is why was this lake not drawn down months ago then to give it some holding room.  We have had big rains and snow ever since the dam was build. The lake has been very high for over a year now and the were told they cant dump it.  Bottom line is this lake should have had room to hold the melt and a big rain.  In 50+yrs of managing the damn they know what to expect in terms of melt water and rain.  It just makes sence they were told they cant dump it. 

#1 - I assume that you understand the concept that water runs downhill and that any water released ends up somewhere else.  Eventually it goes in to the lower reaches of the missouri and then into the Mississippi.

#2 - I think you are aware that there has been widespread flooding throughout the system already this Spring from snowmelt and Spring rains.  The anticipation of that is a major reason for holding back water farther up the system.

#3 - Typically, the largest inflows to the Upper Missouri Dams occurs from melting of the Mountain Snowpack and that occurs later (late June-July).  In a normal year, that is a good time to release our water because downstream flow levels have dropped.

#4 - Tim is 100% correct.  The historically heavy rains in MT and ND have created an unusual problem that couldn't really be anticipated.  If you really want them to account for this type of situation, you won't like the fluctuations in Sak because they will need to draw down way lower than the current operating range in order to have a big enough buffer.

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To save bald eagles? Bald eagles dont use the shorline to nest, they find large trees because their nests are massive.We have had large numbers in recent years move into this area and I'm sure they are loving all this overland flooding. Bald eagles dont actually hunt very often and only if they need to, they normally scavenge. They actually enjoy the nasty winters we have had because of the constant supply of dead deer to feed on. Its neat actually in recent years on small dams/lakes in this area if a released fish dies it is more likely to have a bald eagle come get it than a gull. Anyway sounds like a bad attempt to throw the corps under the bus. I have had no prob throwing them under the bus in past years but that explanation dosent really add up.

I dont go around guessing cup sizes either I just know a nice rack when I see one.

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good response tim.  don't see that the corp had many options given high pool level we went into winter with, the tendency not to want to release massive amounts of water during the winter months (for good reason) and downstream flooding going on earlier this spring.  tis what it is and i highly doubt birds had much to do w/ this situation.  not intending to throw icefreak under the same bus he threw the corp under.  i just kind of doubt the info he was given had as big of an impact as he was led to believe. 

Born to hunt and fish... Forced to work!

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There's something that I should point out or at least share my opinion.  I don't know if my opinion is correct but will state it anyway.

I think the Corp would have had control of the snowpack.  We would have had releases high like in 1997 and probably would have had them at a longer duration (remember, they actually had it forecast to release to 50,000 plus cfs before the heavy rains).  Even with longer duration, Bismarck would have had probably no more than 60 or 65,000 cfs flowing through.

What happened to the Corp is the record rainfalls STOLE all the storage.  The snowpack is a very vital and important aspect to the dams but it comes MUCH SLOWER in fashion.  The dams can handle it because it takes weeks to months for the water to make it through the system and that happens in stages throughout the system.  With rain it came now.  And when it comes now, there is no way to account for that.

So what is happening is since the rain stole the storage and we are entering the time period where the snows start to melt and make their way we need to send great quantities of water.  Hence the Bismarck and downstream problems.

I would be furious with the Corp (as Farnorth pointed out in his last bullet) if they managed for crazy amounts of water.  They didn't design the system that way.  If they did, it would completely destroy livelihoods and really, there wouldn't be a soul around the lake because it is so shut down to public access that what would the use of the dam be to people?

Just a very unfortunate series of events.  And most of them were 100% unavoidable.


 

 

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Liebel's Guide Service | Williston, ND | 701-770-6746 liebelsguideservice.com
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I too am certainly not a Corps fan but will stand in this instance to defend them even though it is as big a waste of time as trying to BLAME someone. Good grief, if they had taken water out all winter to make room for this kind of water they would have been under scrutiny like we have already witnessed since 1988. The majority of the snow pack came unusually late in the year as it was so it was nearly impossible to predict without Divine Intervention in the first place!
Let this blame game end please. It is so childish I don't possess the words to explain how ridiculous it is! IT is what it is,..... so concentrate on living with it. We can't turn back the clock so get on with addressing the situation at hand. I just hate this especially when Joel Heitkamp in his infinite wisdom accurately made the prediction that a sacrificial linching of someone would take place after it was all done. No credit to that swell head should be publicized in any forum as far as I am concerned!
Get informed and get real!

The arrogance of the present is to forget the wisdom of the past.

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I know all this talk about CFS is fun and very interesting but i just heard some very very disgusting news.  I heard from a very credible source from someone who works very high in a government agency that all this has nothing to do with draw downs and water levels and precipitation.  He said that the reason the CORPS did not draw the big lake down was to protect the interest of the special interest groups to protect the animals along the Missouri and their reproduction.  Bald eagles and other birds that use the shores and sand bars to reproduce.  This will never hit the news as nobody would want to admitt that all this damage is because of the tree hugging libbs that wanted to save their birds. I thought this country was founed on the majority.  These special interest groups now have more power than the majority and that is the reason Bismarck is going through what its going through.  WOW  cant wait to go bird watching.  This made me sick.

I call pure and unabated BS!

If you want actual factual information on the Missouri River management objectives and plan, and subsequent USFWS Biological Opinion on the pallid sturgeon, Northern Great Plains piping plover, bald eagle (subsequently delisted) and Interior least tern, here are some links:

http://www.fws.gov/mountain-prairie/missouririver/#operations

http://www.fws.gov/mountain-prairie/missouririver/

http://www.fws.gov/feature/Mo_river.html

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Icefreak is partially correct…one of the objectives along with flood control and barge traffic is conservation. And nesting birds and shoreline birds are a concern when the CORP projects water levels.

However Tim is also correct in the fact that over the last 60 years the CORP has taken t he same approach each spring. The lake was brought down to what the CORP believed was sufficient levels at the time. The massive amounts of moisture in eastern MT have been a game changer and when your precipitation is 200%-400% over average…there are not too many models out there that can predict that.

If projected forecasts had been more accurate then yes the lake would have been drawn down more despite nesting bird habitat…however if the projection of threat is not in the forecast then the nesting bird habitat would take precedence over lake water levels…being a government entity that is just how it works…


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Blame me --- i asked for the lake to keep the water up and i asked for that lake to be stocked properly.  Both were done - and done nicely.   Our friend la nina has decided to stick around a while -- longer she stays - the worse the dry weather will be.   Some say shes gone  -- -looks like to me she is still leaving.  I think what the coe has done is all what they can do ---  if they overstate like they do down in fargo --- everything will be a -ok.   Houses will flood but it will be minor vs. what this baby would do w/o a dam 

Stay thirsty my friends

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For all of you 'doubters,' if you have nothing better to do in your spare time, feel free to do some light reading:

http://www.nwd-mr.usace.army.mil/mmanual/mast-man.htm
 

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I meant to type "weather doubters' or 'conspiracy theorists'

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Tim Sandstrom Said:
There's something that I should point out or at least share my opinion.  I don't know if my opinion is correct but will state it anyway.

I think the Corp would have had control of the snowpack.  We would have had releases high like in 1997 and probably would have had them at a longer duration (remember, they actually had it forecast to release to 50,000 plus cfs before the heavy rains).  Even with longer duration, Bismarck would have had probably no more than 60 or 65,000 cfs flowing through.

What happened to the Corp is the record rainfalls STOLE all the storage.  The snowpack is a very vital and important aspect to the dams but it comes MUCH SLOWER in fashion.  The dams can handle it because it takes weeks to months for the water to make it through the system and that happens in stages throughout the system.  With rain it came now.  And when it comes now, there is no way to account for that.

So what is happening is since the rain stole the storage and we are entering the time period where the snows start to melt and make their way we need to send great quantities of water.  Hence the Bismarck and downstream problems.

I would be furious with the Corp (as Farnorth pointed out in his last bullet) if they managed for crazy amounts of water.  They didn't design the system that way.  If they did, it would completely destroy livelihoods and really, there wouldn't be a soul around the lake because it is so shut down to public access that what would the use of the dam be to people?

Just a very unfortunate series of events.  And most of them were 100% unavoidable.

Well said Tim. Ditto.

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SHORTHAIRSRUS Said:
Blame me --- i asked for the lake to keep the water up and i asked for that lake to be stocked properly.  Both were done - and done nicely.   Our friend la nina has decided to stick around a while -- longer she stays - the worse the dry weather will be.   Some say shes gone  -- -looks like to me she is still leaving.  I think what the coe has done is all what they can do ---  if they overstate like they do down in fargo --- everything will be a -ok.   Houses will flood but it will be minor vs. what this baby would do w/o a dam 

Like any pissed off woman she cant leave without causing a scene.

I dont go around guessing cup sizes either I just know a nice rack when I see one.

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We will get dry at some point, that's just how the world works.  I just don't see the end until maybe this winter.  I do not like dry winters.  I will settle for a normal one though.


 

 

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The big lake came up .81 feet in 24 hours.


 

 

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I just heard on KFYR with Steve Beck. He said flood insurance that wasn't bought over 30 days ago will not pay. Because the flood is already and has been in play for a week now, any policy purchased with in this time will not pay. 

permo Said:

KurtR Said:
I thought flood insurance had 30 day waiting period before it comes into effect?

Yes it does, but take a look at the information, the proverbial $hit, isn't going to really hit the fan until the end of june when the mountain snowpack runnoff peaks. .  I took my policy out 4 days ago and I am glad I did because the timing looks about right.

Personally I hope they go to 100kcfs sooner than later to make room for all that melt.

The current forecast has Sak at 1853.9 on July 12th..............

IT IS BETTER TO ASK FOR FORGIVENESS THAN ASK FOR PERMISSION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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 Sorry to repost what has already been said. i forgot to refresh my screen.

IT IS BETTER TO ASK FOR FORGIVENESS THAN ASK FOR PERMISSION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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So I live in south Bismarck and my house is at a low elevation but am about a mile inside the boundaries of the protective dike.  Should I be sandbagging or should I trust the dike will protect me?

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Sluggo Said:
So I live in south Bismarck and my house is at a low elevation but am about a mile inside the boundaries of the protective dike.  Should I be sandbagging or should I trust the dike will protect me?

I would have to believe you will be good.  Put it this way, if the city dike fails I don't know if sandbagging would help you much anyway.

I would work on suring up sump pump issues, get plugs for all drains, shut offs for all water lines coming in (washer, dish washers, fridges, etc).


 

 

Kirsch's Outdoor Products | Fargo, ND | 701-261-9017 Garmin GPS Hunting Maps
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I have a friend who fought off the Red for 3 weeks with a ring dike and he won. Or so he thought. The result of 3 weeks of water pressure against his basement walls caused them to crack/buckle. He later wished he had just moved stuff out, filled his basement with clean water and re-sheet rocked when it dried out.

If you ring dike you have an advantage if you can get a lot of space between your house and the dike (of course this forces you to build a bigger dike in the end).

Consider adding multiple deep dewatering systems (8 foot deep sumps) to keep the pressure off your basement.

Use plastic sheeting extending out away from the dike (on the OUTSIDE) as far as is practical to force the percolation to travel that much farther to make it under and into your yard. It won't eliminate it but will slow it down.

If you lose power, you're sunk. That's the saddest losses I've seen here in the east - all that work and they'd have made it with power, but their generator puked or lost power from the grid and didn't have generators.   : (

 

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 I live south of Bismarck in a low area. We are clearing every thing and walking away. I am hoping for the best and expecting the worse. Luckily I have a place to go and storage. Life goes on. 

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BDub Said:
 I live south of Bismarck in a low area. We are clearing every thing and walking away. I am hoping for the best and expecting the worse. Luckily I have a place to go and storage. Life goes on. 

Good luck man.

I dont go around guessing cup sizes either I just know a nice rack when I see one.

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Just went across the Missouri on 85 at willistonWow!!went across it 6 days and it was not flowing like it is now.the water is really moving on the sw side of 85 not in the main river channel,but after you cross the bridge

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The final word is buy insurance and then see what happens.  That's sort of obvious.

However, the common answer is they will be considering this a flood in progress event and coverage will not be granted or I guess rewarded.


 

 

Kirsch's Outdoor Products | Fargo, ND | 701-261-9017 Garmin GPS Hunting Maps
Liebel's Guide Service | Williston, ND | 701-770-6746 liebelsguideservice.com
Jig-em-Up Guide Service | Grand Forks, ND | 701-739-9198 jig-em-up-guide-service.com

 

 
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SHORTHAIRSRUS Said:
Blame me --- i asked for the lake to keep the water up and i asked for that lake to be stocked properly.  Both were done - and done nicely.   Our friend la nina has decided to stick around a while -- longer she stays - the worse the dry weather will be.   Some say shes gone  -- -looks like to me she is still leaving.  I think what the coe has done is all what they can do ---  if they overstate like they do down in fargo --- everything will be a -ok.   Houses will flood but it will be minor vs. what this baby would do w/o a dam 

Remember last summer when fishermen were happy the lake was so high? Oofta. How times change.

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Co-worker just added up the three gages and there is 144,000 coming into the lake still.  Definitely dropping hard but I imagine there will be a brief rise later with the Billings water making its way.  Plus start to stay pretty consistent at a level for a bit.  Guess that is the good news.  Bad news is there is pretty good confidence for rain of 1 to 2 inches for Western ND.  Eastern MT as well.


 

 

Kirsch's Outdoor Products | Fargo, ND | 701-261-9017 Garmin GPS Hunting Maps
Liebel's Guide Service | Williston, ND | 701-770-6746 liebelsguideservice.com
Jig-em-Up Guide Service | Grand Forks, ND | 701-739-9198 jig-em-up-guide-service.com

 

 
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I think they are going to 90,000 June 4th now.  I can't keep up.  But to me, this makes complete sense.

Was wondering why they did the change yesterday.


 

 

Kirsch's Outdoor Products | Fargo, ND | 701-261-9017 Garmin GPS Hunting Maps
Liebel's Guide Service | Williston, ND | 701-770-6746 liebelsguideservice.com
Jig-em-Up Guide Service | Grand Forks, ND | 701-739-9198 jig-em-up-guide-service.com

 

 
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simmsjs Said:
I just heard on KFYR with Steve Beck. He said flood insurance that wasn't bought over 30 days ago will not pay. Because the flood is already and has been in play for a week now, any policy purchased with in this time will not pay. 

WE have had the radio on all day too, there is no factual information on when the cutoff date is at this point.  It isn't worth arguing about, but I figured when floods are coming budgets go out the window....worth a $300 gamble.

Regardless, I am glad the corps is increasing releases earlier.....lets the get the water moving as soon as the dikes a built.  

On another note, I am amazingly unimpressed with the selfish behavior of many folks within the "safe zone".......get out of the way and stop hoarding sandbags, let the people that need them get them quicker and trust the dike being built to protect you.  

Break time is over....back to flood fighting.

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Keep up the fight permo.  Routin' for all of you guys down there!


 

 

Kirsch's Outdoor Products | Fargo, ND | 701-261-9017 Garmin GPS Hunting Maps
Liebel's Guide Service | Williston, ND | 701-770-6746 liebelsguideservice.com
Jig-em-Up Guide Service | Grand Forks, ND | 701-739-9198 jig-em-up-guide-service.com

 

 
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To play devils advocate.......

If I owned a property in southwest Bismarck that was in the "protected zone", your darn right I'd be building a ring duke around it. You have absolutely no idea if a levee is going to hold with 105,000 cfs of rushing water barreling at it. Hell no am I going to take that chance. I would not put myself in the situation of looking at my demolished home and having to tell live with not doing everything I could to save it. Protecting your property is not selfish.
 

permo Said:

simmsjs Said:
I just heard on KFYR with Steve Beck. He said flood insurance that wasn't bought over 30 days ago will not pay. Because the flood is already and has been in play for a week now, any policy purchased with in this time will not pay. 

WE have had the radio on all day too, there is no factual information on when the cutoff date is at this point.  It isn't worth arguing about, but I figured when floods are coming budgets go out the window....worth a $300 gamble.

Regardless, I am glad the corps is increasing releases earlier.....lets the get the water moving as soon as the dikes a built.  

On another note, I am amazingly unimpressed with the selfish behavior of many folks within the "safe zone".......get out of the way and stop hoarding sandbags, let the people that need them get them quicker and trust the dike being built to protect you.  

Break time is over....back to flood fighting.

nd hunter

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The thing is, if a earthen dike doesn't hold how will sandbags.  A lot of wonder is about the sandy soil and bag dikes.  Guess we'll find out because the high water is going to be around.


 

 

Kirsch's Outdoor Products | Fargo, ND | 701-261-9017 Garmin GPS Hunting Maps
Liebel's Guide Service | Williston, ND | 701-770-6746 liebelsguideservice.com
Jig-em-Up Guide Service | Grand Forks, ND | 701-739-9198 jig-em-up-guide-service.com

 

 
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I definately understand both sides of the argument. If the earthen dike and a personal ring dike doesn't hold, no amount of sandbags outside the protection zone will hold either so they wouldn't have needed them anyways.

Tim Sandstrom Said:
The thing is, if a earthen dike doesn't hold how will sandbags.  A lot of wonder is about the sandy soil and bag dikes.  Guess we'll find out because the high water is going to be around.

nd hunter

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Yes, its Selfish!
Those resources should be ONLY for those who's property is outside the levees. If half the man-hours people placed in "protecting" their own property within the city dikes was expended helping the "the outsiders" this flood wouldn't be that big of deal.
The reality is the ring dikes will not help if the dikes collapse anyways. The 20-21ft flood is around 2.to 2.5 feet of water on the main floor of nearly all homes in south Bismarck.
Be less self centered and lend a hand to those who are in real danger outside the city/county dikes.  Try filling sand bags for them!

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As stated before, if the levees collapse....peoples ring dikes outside the zone won't hold either no matter what. I understand both sides of the argument. Truth be told we have absolutely NO idea of what is going to happen and calling someone out as selfish for doing everything they can to protect their property is not right. 

Westerneagle Said:
Yes, its Selfish!
Those resources should be ONLY for those who's property is outside the levees. If half the man-hours people placed in "protecting" their own property within the city dikes was expended helping the "the outsiders" this flood wouldn't be that big of deal.
The reality is the ring dikes will not help if the dikes collapse anyways. The 20-21ft flood is around 2.to 2.5 feet of water on the main floor of nearly all homes in south Bismarck.
Be less self centered and lend a hand to those who are in real danger outside the city/county dikes.  Try filling sand bags for them!

nd hunter

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Tim Sandstrom Said:
Co-worker just added up the three gages and there is 144,000 coming into the lake still.  Definitely dropping hard but I imagine there will be a brief rise later with the Billings water making its way.  Plus start to stay pretty consistent at a level for a bit.  Guess that is the good news.  Bad news is there is pretty good confidence for rain of 1 to 2 inches for Western ND.  Eastern MT as well.

Billings Montana just had over 3 inches and is flooding along the yellowstone that montana water is comming to bismarck.   Floods are no fun I have 2 dams to rebuild from this spring plus a deep well to pull  I feel for all of the flood victums but I am 160 miles from you guys  He does answer prayers

The best democrat platform a Republican can stand on it a manure pile

drug test everyone on welfare

have an open season on molesters

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I just checked 2 websites including weather.com and it shows 0 inches of rain for Billings in the past 24 hours.  Where did you hear/see 3 inches?

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dreamsofourfathers Said:
As stated before, if the levees collapse....peoples ring dikes outside the zone won't hold either no matter what. I understand both sides of the argument. Truth be told we have absolutely NO idea of what is going to happen and calling someone out as selfish for doing everything they can to protect their property is not right. 

Westerneagle Said:
Yes, its Selfish!
Those resources should be ONLY for those who's property is outside the levees. If half the man-hours people placed in "protecting" their own property within the city dikes was expended helping the "the outsiders" this flood wouldn't be that big of deal.
The reality is the ring dikes will not help if the dikes collapse anyways. The 20-21ft flood is around 2.to 2.5 feet of water on the main floor of nearly all homes in south Bismarck.
Be less self centered and lend a hand to those who are in real danger outside the city/county dikes.  Try filling sand bags for them!

Still self centered,  Go volunteer to help the "outsiders". If the plan works for the city folks, how will those who were a barrier in both restricting access in time and resources going to feel with all those sandbags in their Dry yard while others outside the ring of protection lose all? 
Give them a chance!
TIME is not on their side. Help them by staying out of the sandbag fill lines.
Your stealing time and resources from them, which is selfish!

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Sluggo Said:
I just checked 2 websites including weather.com and it shows 0 inches of rain for Billings in the past 24 hours.  Where did you hear/see 3 inches?

That rain was a few days ago, a one day record, at any rate that water has a few days before it gets down there and it is still raining in many places in MT and is supposed to continue to.

I dont go around guessing cup sizes either I just know a nice rack when I see one.

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Sluggo Said:
I just checked 2 websites including weather.com and it shows 0 inches of rain for Billings in the past 24 hours.  Where did you hear/see 3 inches?

It's not looking good to the west again, here's billings weather outlook.

http://www.wrh.noaa.gov/byz/

http://forecast.weather.gov/MapClick.php?minlon=-117.05&maxlon=-102.45&minlat=43.8&maxlat=49&mapwidth=354&site=byz&zmx=1&zmy=1&map.x=218&map.y=102

Garrison is only two feet from running over, was going up a foot every two days but went up a foot in one today. Mainly due to the close to 200,000 cfs that had been going in the last couple days when the corps said it was only 113.000 cfs. 113,000 cfs doesn't take Williston up to 28 feet! Anyways that stuff is filling her up fast now as you
can see here.

And Peck didn't like being choked down to 10,000cfs so now they need to dump her hard, something like 50,000 cfs now and much more to come when she spills over.


So now you have a record rain event in the Billings area 3 days ago headed our way, Peck is going to spill over about the same time Garrison does. Plus another major rain event this coming couple days. So both systems will be at fool pool in less than 7 days and then the weather out west is going to warm up fast in June and those record snow packs are going to come down the pipe fast and hard to what is basically an undammed river system just like pre dam days.
Man I feel sorry for the folks along the entire river system, there's going to be so much more water than most are expecting. I still don't understand how the Corps couldn't figure out what so many outdoors man on this site seen coming months ago, even before Montana's big rain events these past weeks.

 

"Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the American Government take care of him;better take a closer look at the American Indian."
Henry Ford

 

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And this is just one of the little rivers that is headed our way.

Musselshell river 5/27/11 video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpoxj5RHSro

 

"Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the American Government take care of him;better take a closer look at the American Indian."
Henry Ford

 

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