The Flood Fight For Bismarck - Official Forum

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Word from down at the Yellowstone is it came up even more today, the Billings rain must have shown up.

I dont go around guessing cup sizes either I just know a nice rack when I see one.

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I helped some friends in south Bismarck today with a sandbag dike.  Homeowners in two city blocks got together and are building it around all the houses in this two city block area.  They are purchasing their own sand and filling sandbags themselves in two locations.  They started this sandbag dike Wednesday, before the city decided for sure they were building a dike to protect them.  I politely and casually questioned their need for the sandbag dike now that the city was building one.  A gentleman that went through the Grand Forks floodfight spoke up and said he was in the same situation then, with the city built dike protecting his home.  He didn't build his own sand bag dike and the storm sewers backed up and ended up flooding his home.  The people today feel like this will protect them from that situation.  And it seems like it gives them piece of mind, at least they can say they did everything they could.  I would do the same in their shoes.  Lots of people in need of help in the Bismarck-Mandan area, if you have some time to spare give them a hand this weekend!  A hard days work feels good!

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Good for you Schmidty, my wife family and friends all did the same today. But when I look at what a complete monster this entire river system looks to become in another two weeks I think we are just pissing on a forest fire. Can you imagine 200,000 cfs rolling through town. If they lose both dams it will be as if its just a huge wild river again like in years past before the dams, when you'd see 30+ feet in south Bismarck. And it really does look like thats what is about to take place, it terrible.

 

"Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the American Government take care of him;better take a closer look at the American Indian."
Henry Ford

 

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"Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the American Government take care of him;better take a closer look at the American Indian."
Henry Ford

 

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Sluggo Said:
I just checked 2 websites including weather.com and it shows 0 inches of rain for Billings in the past 24 hours.  Where did you hear/see 3 inches?

check the other post for links. Brother in law is from roundup and his basement is full now

The best democrat platform a Republican can stand on it a manure pile

drug test everyone on welfare

have an open season on molesters

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doublebarrelsaloon Said:

Sluggo Said:
I just checked 2 websites including weather.com and it shows 0 inches of rain for Billings in the past 24 hours.  Where did you hear/see 3 inches?

That rain was a few days ago, a one day record, at any rate that water has a few days before it gets down there and it is still raining in many places in MT and is supposed to continue to.

I believe the rain fell on Tuesday ish?  Not sure, can't keep it all organized anymore.  Becoming a blur.

But you can see its effect as you see another upward run of the hydro graph.


 

 

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I was fairly certain Bismarck had LIDAR data but to access it was difficult. They apparantely did this data creation as a crude way of doing it. Or maybe it isn't a crude way, it actually is very helpful.

Here you folks go living down in the Bismarck area. I was told this is comprised of LIDAR data so it should be good to go. I am not responsible for that...it is up to you to ensure that it is indeed LIDAR.

http://bismarck.org/DocumentView.aspx?DID=3827

You can cross reference with this link I have already provided earlier:

http://www.nd.gov/des/ndelevationlookup/


 

 

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Not trying to armchair quarterback or piss anyone off, but Bismarck was on the news last night in the RRV and video was shown of the sandbagging efforts. From a lifetime of living in the RRV I'll just say when it comes to sandbagging, quality is paramount to quantity. Meaning EVERY BAG needs to be placed properly, not just thrown on a pile. Sandbags will hold a lot of water out when they are locked together but they don't do much good just thrown onto a pile. Good luck people!

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Bowhuntin Said:
Not trying to armchair quarterback or piss anyone off, but Bismarck was on the news last night in the RRV and video was shown of the sandbagging efforts. From a lifetime of living in the RRV I'll just say when it comes to sandbagging, quality is paramount to quantity. Meaning EVERY BAG needs to be placed properly, not just thrown on a pile. Sandbags will hold a lot of water out when they are locked together but they don't do much good just thrown onto a pile. Good luck people!

You have a bunch of rookies out west.  I'm sure many mistakes are being made.  If we had 20 years of flood fighting expierence I imagine it would be different.  But we don't.  We get the grand daddy of flood events to practice on.  Not a good situation.


 

 

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Tim,
Yeah, no doubt, and besides that not much time for planning. My comment wasn't meant to be critical at all, just a reminder that 5,000 sandbags properly placed and locked together have a much better chance of holding out water than 50,000 sandbags hastily thrown into a pile. I know you posted a link to sandbagging techniques, hope it's shared more places than FBO.

This will be (maybe already is) the most stressful time of many peoples entire lives. My thoughts and prayers go out to all involved.

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I've been down here sandbagging for three days now. Like Bowhuntin said, lots of improper snadbagging and what will soon show to be alot of wasted time and effort even if done with the best of intentions. The ground is already getting squishy ten feet from the water line. Many houses are already under and many more are soon to be. It is a bad situation that will only get worse unfotunately and will stay bad for a long time. I don't want to do any additional speculating at releases, etc. because I have heard every possible theory and prediction over the last three days from homeowners who do and don't face an immediate threat. Bottom line is no one really knows how the water will flow or spread as it rises, but without a doubt there are hundreds of houses that are doomed regardless of what dikes and sandbags are placed.

To the douchebag that is criticizing someone who is sandbagging their own house rather than someone elses farther away because they are "selfish", look man, it's obvious where your house is or whoever's house is that you are concerned about. If you are faulting someone for doing whatever they can to save their property (pretty much human nature) you need to get a life. I can tell you first hand that a lot of people are fighting a losing battle but if it was my house down there, I'd be doing the same thing. The whole situation sucks but there sure are a lot of folks coming together to do whatever they can for neighbors they don't even know. It's nice to see but devestating at the same time.

Good luck to everyone. I'll be back at it soon and I strongly encourage anyone who is able to help someone out.

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Also, as for helping people out, not only are sandbaggers needed, but people will need places to store their vehicles, property, cattle, you name it real soon. There is a flood hotline to offer or ask for services.

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Dirty. Said:

I've been down here sandbagging for three days now. Like Bowhuntin said, lots of improper snadbagging and what will soon show to be alot of wasted time and effort even if done with the best of intentions. The ground is already getting squishy ten feet from the water line. Many houses are already under and many more are soon to be. It is a bad situation that will only get worse unfotunately and will stay bad for a long time. I don't want to do any additional speculating at releases, etc. because I have heard every possible theory and prediction over the last three days from homeowners who do and don't face an immediate threat. Bottom line is no one really knows how the water will flow or spread as it rises, but without a doubt there are hundreds of houses that are doomed regardless of what dikes and sandbags are placed.

To the douchebag that is criticizing someone who is sandbagging their own house rather than someone elses farther away because they are "selfish", look man, it's obvious where your house is or whoever's house is that you are concerned about. If you are faulting someone for doing whatever they can to save their property (pretty much human nature) you need to get a life. I can tell you first hand that a lot of people are fighting a losing battle but if it was my house down there, I'd be doing the same thing. The whole situation sucks but there sure are a lot of folks coming together to do whatever they can for neighbors they don't even know. It's nice to see but devestating at the same time.

Good luck to everyone. I'll be back at it soon and I strongly encourage anyone who is able to help someone out.

Yes, SELFISH!
The people within the city dikes have millions of dollars from the Federal, State, County, City and huge amounts of equipment being used to protect them. 
I live within that protected area!
Think about all the hours wasted by city folks jamming up the sandbaging lines when the people outside the dikes are the ones who need those resources.  Yes, no matter how you attempt to spin it, selfishness is protected city folks jamming up the system when TIME is the enemy. Now Dirty, go wash your mouth out with soap! Your name calling is sickening.

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Just a thought, could they start pumping water into Lake Audubon.  Then just divit it through the canels? That should take some strain off of the big lake.

 

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Okay guys, lets knock off the comments.  There SO MUCH BETTER WAYS to express opinions.  Just don't do it again people.

As for the photo, I hope that isn't what is expected to protect a home.  Not good.


 

 

Kirsch's Outdoor Products | Fargo, ND | 701-261-9017 Garmin GPS Hunting Maps
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"The people within the city dikes have millions of dollars from the Federal, State, County, City and huge amounts of equipment being used to protect them. "

um......what dikes?
Has the talk of dikes being built been just that? I'm talking dikes that would actually protect folks in south Bismarck?

You folks need to get a grasp of what the lakes above you are contending with right now. I have a sickening feeling the next two days of 1:30 meetings are going to bring some very bad news as far as the releases go. Yet they still tell folks they are in control of the situation.

This is what Montana is dealing with right now.
http://billingsgazette.com/special-section/news/montana_flood_2011/?=update76546

Remember they told you to be prepared for 16, then 18, now 20. Prepare for the worst, get your things out of your homes now!

Oh and quit fighting amongst ourselves, we are North Dakotans for gosh sakes. The ill will spewed on here and the tribune is sickening.

 

"Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the American Government take care of him;better take a closer look at the American Indian."
Henry Ford

 

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I'm going to say this once.  If I lived in an area where 20 feet could hurt me I would be putting my sandbagging on hold and moving everything out of the house.  Everything.

And then go back to sandbagging.  I just honestly do not see how the releases will not increase.


 

 

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Tim Sandstrom Said:
Okay guys, lets knock off the comments.  There SO MUCH BETTER WAYS to express opinions.  Just don't do it again people.

As for the photo, I hope that isn't what is expected to protect a home.  Not good.

Is this directed @ me?

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Bowhuntin Said:

Tim Sandstrom Said:
Okay guys, lets knock off the comments.  There SO MUCH BETTER WAYS to express opinions.  Just don't do it again people.

As for the photo, I hope that isn't what is expected to protect a home.  Not good.

Is this directed @ me?

No, we have people getting called selfish because they are using sandbags to protect their property.  Then a frustrated person that bagged for three days didn't like that.

I want them to just call it over so we can keep the negativity off the forum.


 

 

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Tim Sandstrom Said:
I'm going to say this once.  If I lived in an area where 20 feet could hurt me I would be putting my sandbagging on hold and moving everything out of the house.  Everything.

And then go back to sandbagging.  I just honestly do not see how the releases will not increase.

Bingo.

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The 1:30 pm news conference was postponed to 4 pm.  I really do not like that...that could mean they are preparing to give bad news.  Lets hope I am spreading rumor and not reading a crystal ball...

 


 

 

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Stole this from facebook.  Good luck everybody.
Garrison Dam Water Release and Spillway May 27, 2011

 


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As of now the story for why the delay is in place is because the river is acting differently than they originally thought per cfs flow.  I understand that, very much is unknown with releases like this so I imagine the number on the gage isn't exactly doing what they thought.

I see this as a bad sign.  But lets hope I'm wrong.  I always like being wrong when it means good things for people...


 

 

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   Tim, do you have or know if there is a LIDAR for the Mandan people? Can,t find elevations of a friends residence.

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wslayer Said:
   Tim, do you have or know if there is a LIDAR for the Mandan people? Can,t find elevations of a friends residence.

I would have to believe if they flew the area that Mandan would have been in the cost share to get that data.  Now, with that said, what happens AFTER it is flown is another thing.

Mandan probably doesn't have the city GIS system, staff, etc so they might not have had the data crunched yet.

My best answer is the links I put up.  After that, I'm sorry, I do not know and I'm thinking that I'd know since I have sat by the a.m. radio listening to a lot of the coverage, the conferences, viewed their websites, etc.  So I'm thinking it is not readily available.

If it is new construction dig through their papers for property lines, corners, etc.  There might possibly be an elevation on it.  Or try the recorder office but I imagine it is swamped with phone calls.

Sorry.  Good luck and God Speed folks.  This is a serious event.


 

 

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Tim Sandstrom Said:

wslayer Said:
   Tim, do you have or know if there is a LIDAR for the Mandan people? Can,t find elevations of a friends residence.

I would have to believe if they flew the area that Mandan would have been in the cost share to get that data.  Now, with that said, what happens AFTER it is flown is another thing.

Mandan probably doesn't have the city GIS system, staff, etc so they might not have had the data crunched yet.

My best answer is the links I put up.  After that, I'm sorry, I do not know and I'm thinking that I'd know since I have sat by the a.m. radio listening to a lot of the coverage, the conferences, viewed their websites, etc.  So I'm thinking it is not readily available.

If it is new construction dig through their papers for property lines, corners, etc.  There might possibly be an elevation on it.  Or try the recorder office but I imagine it is swamped with phone calls.

Sorry.  Good luck and God Speed folks.  Thi.

  
                Thanks!!!!!!!!!!!

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http://www.co.morton.nd.us/index.asp?Type=B_BASIC&SEC={42B40818-3042-4674-99FE-D8C2A6BC1398}&DE={65DBCDDF-85AF-4843-AF04-1126221FBD0C}

Morton/Mandan elevation look up by address, based on LIDAR data, same data as Bismarck/Burleigh info


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This whole situation is not good. The news conference has been postponed until 5:30. I have a feeling the conference will reveal some horrible news.

Everyone say some prayers and keep your fingers crossed.

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I don't think it will be good news either.  I would like to thank everyone on this forum for getting us the real data and I think most people including myself knew it was going to get worse even when they said they were going to put the dikes in.

odocoileus Said:
This whole situation is not good. The news conference has been postponed until 5:30. I have a feeling the conference will reveal some horrible news.

Everyone say some prayers and keep your fingers crossed.


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Here is the link of the press conference on radio:

http://www.kfyr.com/mediaplayer/

"When we step into the outdoors, we have the privilege of standing in the presence of God through the power and majesty of His creation. That makes hunting more than a sport or a hobby. It's a calling to something greater. And that transforms the places that we stand into something more than a cropfield or a pasture or a mountain. It makes that place Hallowed Ground."

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120k by on June 2.

Will go to 150k sometime.


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 Grab y'er belts and tighten them up, folks!   150,000 means they are forced to open up the spillway gates, since the tubes and generating plant can only release 135,000cfs maximum.

Also, it was stated that sandbars in the Bismarck area are being forced downstream because of the river's powerful flow.   Instead of 4' per second flow it is now at 15.6' per second.   I guess navigation and summer recreation will be fun for a few years once this water goes back down, huh?

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Press conference says "We're going to let her buck"!

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Talked to my folks @ Fort Peck this morning and predictions are that it will be full release of incoming flows as early as Monday, as I watch the levels of the lakes rise, I personally would not hinge hope on the Corps daily release projections. I can see Garrison going to full release of incoming flows by Monday or Tuesday as they will have no choice. Wish everyone the best. Good Luck.

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                             M I S S O U R I   R I V E R   R E G I O N
                    D A I L Y   R I V E R   B U L L E T I N
                                                                   28 MAY 2011
                      MILES
                      ABOVE  ELEV  FLOOD  GAGE  24 HR  EST  STORE  24 HR  TEMP
                      MO R. DATUM  STAGE  READ CHANGE DISCH  1000 PRECIP DEGR F
S T A T I O N        MOUTH  FEET   FEET  FEET  FEET   CFS  AC FT  INCH  HI  LO
                     (1960)   MSL
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                             MAIN STEM RESERVOIRS
  FORT PECK     POOL 1771.6             2246.9   0.6  75000 17696  0.12  57 -50
    RES          TW                                    9900  3358 MWH
  GARRISON      POOL 1389.9             1852.1   0.5 165000 23083  0.19  65  47
    RES          TW                                   78700  9518 MWH
  OAHE          POOL 1072.3             1618.3   0.4 123000 22487  0.00       
    RES          TW                                   79200  8751 MWH

Just noticed this in red on the daily river bulletin of the corp website, this shows they know they will be going to full releases, just not telling out loud. Sux man.

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This just posted on Corps website:

May 28, 2011 - Corps of Engineers announces plans to raise Lake Audubon pool levels #2011MoRivFlood

by US Army Corps of Engineers, Omaha District on Saturday, May 28, 2011 at 6:16pm
 

Omaha, Neb. — Officials with the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers announced today that they will begin to initiate releases into Lake Audubon as part of flood risk management operations at Garrison Reservoir.

 

Lake Audubon is a sub-impoundment of Garrison reservoir, located 8 miles northeast of Riverdale, N.D. Impounded by the Snake Creek Embankment, Lake Audubon was created in 1954 with the relocation of U.S. Highway 83 and a railroad across the Snake Creek Arm of Lake Sakakawea. The lake also provides fish and wildlife enhancement, and diversion of water for irrigation.

 

Rapidly changing weather conditions in Montana, northern Wyoming and the western

 

Dakotas have prompted the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers to make adjustments to previously announced

 

releases from Garrison Reservoir in order to evacuate flood waters out of the Missouri River main stem reservoir system. Future releases will reach record levels considerably higher than those previously announced.

 

“Using Lake Audubon will allow the Corps to take advantage of up to 150,000 acre-feet of storage that is available there,” said Jody Farhat, Chief of the Water Management Division here.

 

The Lake Audubon pool is currently at its normal summertime level of 1847.0 feet above mean sea level (msl). The Lake Audubon pool level will rise at a rate of 0.3 to 0.4 feet per day, and the rate of rise will gradually decrease as the Lake Audubon level approaches the Garrison Reservoir level. The final pool level for Lake Audubon has not been determined, but it could rise as high as the pool level forecast of 1854 feet msl at Garrison Reservoir.  

 

The Corps is coordinating with the Bureau of Reclamation, U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, North Dakota Game and Fish Department, North Dakota State Water Commission, and the Garrison Diversion Conservancy District concerning the impacts of increased Lake Audubon pool levels. The planned maximum pool level for Lake Audubon will be announced in the next several days.

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They are forecasting an inflow of 206k on June 21st. 



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You may as well count on releases of 200,000 cfs at Garrison Dam before too long. Mid June maybe? I'd say certainly within 3 weeks. whether you are in or out of the dikes, if you are in a low lying area of Bismarck I'd say put away the shovels, forget about the sand, and get the all of your stuff out of your house and somewhere on higher ground. As soon as the lakes are all full what goes in (has been 200,000 for awhile) will  be coming out. The corp has said 150,000 cfs but give them a few more meetings and it will be 200,000. They are buying you time now so use it wisely.

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Just saw them backing a huge semi trailer generator into the parking lot at Medcenter One. To me that means they think theres a chance Bismarck will loose power. Has anyone heard how this flood will affect the rest of the city?

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I am from Minot and my wife and I went down to Bismarck to help sand bag. Now I need to know something about the least tern and piping polver. Being the Corps kept the releases low so that these two birds could nest on the islands by Bismarck how many eggs got washed away?

My next question is when these birds start to nest on the sand bags and dykes will the dykes become nesting sancturies and be taken over by the US Fish & Wildlife and Corps of Engineers?

One more thing grab the last copy of Dakota Country and read pages 30 and 31, then go to this link and take a peek at what the USDA/NRCS published about the snow pack. It is a lot differnt than what the Corps has told us.

http://www.wcc.nrcs.usda.gov/ftpref/support/snow/snowpack_maps/missouri_river/wy2011/misnow1105.gif

Then click on this web site and take a look at how wet the Missouri Drainage is and when you combine these two no wonder we are in trouble. The lake ended up 10 feet higher than their manual says it is supposed to be. Has anyone thought about burning the manual?

http://nris.mt.gov/NRCS/swsi/ShowMap.asp?month=3&year=2011

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PM Said:
I am from Minot and my wife and I went down to Bismarck to help sand bag. Now I need to know something about the least tern and piping polver. Being the Corps kept the releases low so that these two birds could nest on the islands by Bismarck how many eggs got washed away?

My next question is when these birds start to nest on the sand bags and dykes will the dykes become nesting sancturies and be taken over by the US Fish & Wildlife and Corps of Engineers?

One more thing grab the last copy of Dakota Country and read pages 30 and 31, then go to this link and take a peek at what the USDA/NRCS published about the snow pack. It is a lot differnt than what the Corps has told us.

http://www.wcc.nrcs.usda.gov/ftpref/support/snow/snowpack_maps/missouri_river/wy2011/misnow1105.gif

Then click on this web site and take a look at how wet the Missouri Drainage is and when you combine these two no wonder we are in trouble. The lake ended up 10 feet higher than their manual says it is supposed to be. Has anyone thought about burning the manual?

http://nris.mt.gov/NRCS/swsi/ShowMap.asp?month=3&year=2011

I'm sure in a few weeks when the grand scheme of things is sorted out we may find out if the bird management is partly to blame.   If they are watch out,   there will be some pissed off people and with good reason.  

"The only enemy of guns is rust and politicians."

"The best defense against usurpatory government is an assertive citizenry."

William F. Buckley, Jr.
"Unarmed helplessness is for sheep and the French."  Ted Nugent

"The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it."
 -Thomas Jefferson

The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.
-Thomas Jefferson

 

 

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Lycanthrope Said:
Just saw them backing a huge semi trailer generator into the parking lot at Medcenter One. To me that means they think theres a chance Bismarck will loose power. Has anyone heard how this flood will affect the rest of the city?

Most likely just prudent planning.

This moment is a paradox, it's the oldest you've ever been as well as the youngest you'll ever be.



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Saw a few gals jogging today in Bismarck.   Apparently they don't know anybody who needed help or no conscience?

"The only enemy of guns is rust and politicians."

"The best defense against usurpatory government is an assertive citizenry."

William F. Buckley, Jr.
"Unarmed helplessness is for sheep and the French."  Ted Nugent

"The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it."
 -Thomas Jefferson

The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.
-Thomas Jefferson

 

 

dreamsofourfathers's picture
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People deal with things/stress in different ways. Not really fair to pass someone on the street and make such leap of faith judgements. You really don't know anything about them. So there were 2 people jogging in Bismarck today. God forbid.

3XGutshot Said:
Saw a few gals jogging today in Bismarck.   Apparently they don't know anybody who needed help or no conscience?

nd hunter

701FishSlayer's picture
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Joined: 3/5/09

 There is a facebook page dedicated to the flood fighters and homeowners, people can request help at specific locations for sandbagging, moving stuff, or anything else at this link

http://www.facebook.com/BisManFlood2011

 

 

 

 

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would have to agree...how do you know that maybe they both have houses down by the river and took an hour break to get away from it all...no need to jump to conclusions and throw someone under the bus.


cynical's picture
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They were jogging in a residential area north of 71st ave. I'll speculate they either are too lazy to help or too good for it. I could be wrong. Then there were a couple bucks shooting hoops south of Bismarck Expressway.

"The only enemy of guns is rust and politicians."

"The best defense against usurpatory government is an assertive citizenry."

William F. Buckley, Jr.
"Unarmed helplessness is for sheep and the French."  Ted Nugent

"The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it."
 -Thomas Jefferson

The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.
-Thomas Jefferson

 

 

dreamsofourfathers's picture
dreamsofourfathers
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Joined: 10/15/08

Or maybe they took a couple days off from work and drove from out of town to help and needed to decompress.

How dare they be jogging in Bismarck! 

bowbus Said:
would have to agree...how do you know that maybe they both have houses down by the river and took an hour break to get away from it all...no need to jump to conclusions and throw someone under the bus.

nd hunter

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3XGutshot Said:
They were jogging in a residential area north of 71st ave. I'll speculate they either are too lazy to help or too good for it. I could be wrong. Then there were a couple bucks shooting hoops south of Bismarck Expressway.

Yep. You definately could be.

nd hunter

bowbus's picture
bowbus
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so now everyone that isnt sandbagging or helping ppl move are automatically believed to be worthless, lazy and heartless?? b/c bismarck is goin to flood the entire world should stop spinning...it doesnt work that way...i mean, i feel really bad for the ppl of bismarck/mandan and hope that it works out for the best, but come on, ppl still have lives...food to put on the table, bills to pay, kids to care for, etc...this isnt the first natural disaster this year, and it wont be the last...be thankful for the help your getting

3XGutshot Said:
They were jogging in a residential area north of 71st ave. I'll speculate they either are too lazy to help or too good for it. I could be wrong. Then there were a couple bucks shooting hoops south of Bismarck Expressway.


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