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murdock1978 Said:
Hey mad, 2nd that WHAtever!@#%&Ha!

Hey get me a beer too, I don't wanna fall behind


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murdock1978 Said:
Hey mad, 2nd that WHAtever!@#%&Ha!

Make it a 3rd,,,,, WHATEVER

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Allen Said:

Enslow Said:
I remember you being concerned about the homes on the river back in March.  I guess your concerns were warranted.

Why yes, yes I was.  It's taken a little time for this to all unfold but she is doing so in spectacular fashion at this point.  Missouri, Souris, Red, James, Sheyenne rivers, all have written (or are writing) new chapters in their flood history this year.

At this point, the Souris and Missouri River dwellers remain quite vulnerable and will need  a little luck along with some serious sweat to get out of this pickle that Mother Nature has tossed their way. 

I blame you Allen!

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Lycanthrope Said:
What is this 'flash melt' you are reffering to?

Snow pack that hasn't begun to melt will melt quickly since it is June already.  In other words it will take less days to turn all that snow into water when compared to an "average" year.  Sort of like your beer will "flash, get warm" if you're sitting in your boat versus indoor air condtioning.  Faster melt equals higher flow rates, and with no storage left, those high flow rates will affect every part of the system at once.

Just a gorilla way-of-thinking.

I say to hell with that pot o' gold.

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Thats assuming the temperatures warm up, so far its been a cold spring...

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Lycanthrope Said:
Thats assuming the temperatures warm up, so far its been a cold spring...

Warmer temps are coming. You can bet on that. This late in the year they are more likely to warm quickly and higher than earlier in the spring, hence the flash melt per GG. Models are showing the ridge to build into Wyoming and MT next week. It could get even uglier.

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Tim Sandstrom Said:

And bringing, I have never in my life (my life people) heard Fargo get hit with 3 to 7 inches of rain in a couple hours time when their levee system was experiencing their highest, 2nd highest, 3rd highest and 4th highest water levels (depending on what gage you are looking at on the Souris).

And it is not normal to get 3 to 7 inch rains.  I've never seen a single statistic support that and not even close in fact.  Yeah, thunderstorms can dumb some quick rain but generally that is a very small area.  This was basically an entire county worth if you add in Ward and Renville together.  It was impressive.

That's why i said I assume you are just talking about the red getting 3-7" while it's at flood stage.

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Bismarck is doing the best it can with it’s lack of experience in this matter…of course hind sight is always 20/20 and there will be a lot of that after this…I just hope the city can pull together and make it through this….I have not witnessed it personally but the news reports sound like it is more of a free for-all then community effort I do agree with Maddogs comment on distributing sandbags to people.

I know this is a trying time and people are doing what they have to do but with the projections and the severity of the event it seems there is no room for error.


"Colorless green ideas sleep furiously"
...People who don’t understand sarcasm are awesome !?!
Jig-em-Up Guide Service | Grand Forks, ND | 701-739-9198 jig-em-up-guide-service.com

 

 

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It seems listening today to KFYR that the info is getting out better and sooner. I walked the dikes in Fargo in 09 and saw the looks on the homeowners faces when the Corp announce a new crest in the last day before we crested. People had no hope at that time of doing anything to add to their dikes. Lucky for us the Corp was wrong on the crest level and we survived.

It is hard for all involved to do what is needed when the goal line keeps changing. If you prepare for the worst and it is not needed then resources are wasted and other areas that could have been protected are lost. If you do not prepare for the worst and identify specific areas to protect then all can be lost.

I have not been out, simply cannot provide much help physically and what extra stuff equipment wise is already in use out in Bismarck already.

So good luck everyone, the river may be the savior as it carves out all the old silt and sand and washes it downstream allowing for more flow through the channel. Hope the dikes hold and sand bagging that has been done holds as well. Best case scenario is that many sandbags never see water!!!!!

In my lifetime I have seen fence row to fence row farming and the return of CRP and game to the landscape.Now we face again the prosepect of fence row to fence row again! Sportsman are our own worst enemy in that we fail to look forward and focus to much on the now!

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Maddog comments makes sense, but only to a degree.  To have only 1 sandbaggin site.  I don't think so!!!  Much more is getting accomplished with multiple sites and in fact, people are having sand dumped in their neighborhoods and bagging for themselves versus standing in line waiting for 2-3 (even 4) to load up 250-300 sandbags.  2 people can damn near fill 150-175 in an hour, roughly 2-3 bags per minute.  What is needed are skidsteers or equipment with huge buckets to then carry then close to the building area.

"To push close the schools"....hello McFly!  The releases have increased steadily over the past week or two.  Most schools and colleges were out or about to get out.  So what's the sense?  By the way, I did hear something about a couple bus loads of kids that are there today filling at the sandbagging central, but not sure where from.  In fact a couple towns have pitched in. 

To have the Fargo officials takeover....never gonna happen!  The only thing they can and have been are consultants for the Bismarck officials.  IMO the Missouri River is a completely different animal. 

We just need to go with the flow (no pun intended) and make start decisions based on the information that is given and hope that little damage is done and no one gets seriously hurt in all this.  Homes can be rebuilt!!!  

My guess is that it will be hard to sell the empty lots around there and the home value will depreciate when this is all done.  Guess we will see!!!

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I think much of the problems people are going to have is, even if they build high enough. They are not thinking about how they are going to keep leaks and ground seepage away from their houses for up to 2 months. Lady I work with lives north of town and they have a high dike built but they are planning on turning off the power and abandoning their home, with no pumps to keep the water out. Most dikes will leak, even if its a small amount, after a few weeks that is going to be a BIG problem.

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Paddledogger Said:
Maddog comments makes sense, but only to a degree.  To have only 1 sandbaggin site.  I don't think so!!!  Much more is getting accomplished with multiple sites and in fact, people are having sand dumped in their neighborhoods and bagging for themselves versus standing in line waiting for 2-3 (even 4) to load up 250-300 sandbags.  2 people can damn near fill 150-175 in an hour, roughly 2-3 bags per minute.  What is needed are skidsteers or equipment with huge buckets to then carry then close to the building area.

"To push close the schools"....hello McFly!  The releases have increased steadily over the past week or two.  Most schools and colleges were out or about to get out.  So what's the sense?  By the way, I did hear something about a couple bus loads of kids that are there today filling at the sandbagging central, but not sure where from.  In fact a couple towns have pitched in. 

To have the Fargo officials takeover....never gonna happen!  The only thing they can and have been are consultants for the Bismarck officials.  IMO the Missouri River is a completely different animal. 

We just need to go with the flow (no pun intended) and make start decisions based on the information that is given and hope that little damage is done and no one gets seriously hurt in all this.  Homes can be rebuilt!!!  

My guess is that it will be hard to sell the empty lots around there and the home value will depreciate when this is all done.  Guess we will see!!!

Williston High School phy ed teachers took there classes to Bismarck today to sandbag.

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BringingTheRain Said:

Paddledogger Said:
Maddog comments makes sense, but only to a degree.  To have only 1 sandbaggin site.  I don't think so!!!  Much more is getting accomplished with multiple sites and in fact, people are having sand dumped in their neighborhoods and bagging for themselves versus standing in line waiting for 2-3 (even 4) to load up 250-300 sandbags.  2 people can damn near fill 150-175 in an hour, roughly 2-3 bags per minute.  What is needed are skidsteers or equipment with huge buckets to then carry then close to the building area.

"To push close the schools"....hello McFly!  The releases have increased steadily over the past week or two.  Most schools and colleges were out or about to get out.  So what's the sense?  By the way, I did hear something about a couple bus loads of kids that are there today filling at the sandbagging central, but not sure where from.  In fact a couple towns have pitched in. 

To have the Fargo officials takeover....never gonna happen!  The only thing they can and have been are consultants for the Bismarck officials.  IMO the Missouri River is a completely different animal. 

We just need to go with the flow (no pun intended) and make start decisions based on the information that is given and hope that little damage is done and no one gets seriously hurt in all this.  Homes can be rebuilt!!!  

My guess is that it will be hard to sell the empty lots around there and the home value will depreciate when this is all done.  Guess we will see!!!

Williston High School phy ed teachers took there classes to Bismarck today to sandbag.

I thought I heard Willsiton earlier, but I didn't want to say.  In fact I heard 3 buses of kids showed up.  Not sure if all Williston, as they might have a little dike issue there as well.  They have a dike that has developed a "boil".  Hope it holds, but Peck will soon be releasing a lot more water in coming day(s).
 

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Pointing fingers doesn't matter at this point.  Everyone just needs to be supportive and do what they can.  Smiles and Hugs fellas.

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Paddledogger Said:
To have only 1 sandbaggin site.  I don't think so!!! 

I do!

This is what works in Fargo, Moorhead, and Forks

1.  Battle lines are drawn and everyone knows where sandbags, dykes, etc will go
2.  Folks show up to bussing sites and are bussed to "Sandbag Central" or a dyke building site.  Less chaos, confusion, and fewer people clogging up streets that the sandbag haulers need.
3.  1 sandbagging site, all the sand trucks go to one spot, escorted by law enforcement running unimpeded from the sand pickup site to Sandbag Central.  Way more people to fill way more sandbags when there aren't dozens sitting in line waiting for their own trailer load.  Lots less traffic too.
4.  Bags are filled and piled onto pallets.  It's neater and faster, much much faster.  For both onload and offload
5.  pallets are loaded via forklifts/bobcats onto flatbeds
6.  Semis pull flatbeds through town with police escorts so they can run unimpeded by traffic signals and get the filled bags where they need to be.
7.  Flatbeds are offloaded via forklifts/bobcats at the dyking sites
8.  Red Cross knows where they're needed and sets up accordingly to keep the workers working, fed, watered, etc.

What you don't have in Fargo, Moorhead, or Forks is individuals or individual neighborhoods making their own decisions.  Engineers and city officials make the decisions and disseminate that information early and often.  Volunteers know the plan and execute.

Paddledogger Said:
Much more is getting accomplished with multiple sites and in fact, people are having sand dumped in their neighborhoods and bagging for themselves versus standing in line waiting for 2-3 (even 4) to load up 250-300 sandbags.  2 people can damn near fill 150-175 in an hour, roughly 2-3 bags per minute.  What is needed are skidsteers or equipment with huge buckets to then carry then close to the building area.

No, more is not being accomplished.  Bis should've had every asset building the primary dykes from day 1 instead of the fractured effort that was put forth.  If you or your neighborhood build a good dyke and your neighbor or next neighborhood down doesn't, you get flooded anyway or get evac'd because although you're dry, no one can get to you, when things backflow through dykes that failed or the groundwater saturates and your pumps can't keep up.  In such a situation, you're actually working against each other as you try to be protected to a higher level and compete for resources and manpower.  You'd be further along and would've been able to save more houses in the process with one coordinated unified effort.

Bobcats with snow buckets to haul sandbags from the street to the backyard is a good idea, ATV's pulling trailers work very well too and are easier on yards as well.

This moment is a paradox, it's the oldest you've ever been as well as the youngest you'll ever be.



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Stay thirsty my friends

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Lycanthrope Said:
I think much of the problems people are going to have is, even if they build high enough. They are not thinking about how they are going to keep leaks and ground seepage away from their houses for up to 2 months. Lady I work with lives north of town and they have a high dike built but they are planning on turning off the power and abandoning their home, with no pumps to keep the water out. Most dikes will leak, even if its a small amount, after a few weeks that is going to be a BIG problem.

Ya think?  What happens when the power goes out and they won't allow access for folks to run generators for sump pumps?  The dikes better be tighter than a frog's ass, but we all know they won't/can't be when put up in a hurry.  Nothing but a feel-good, political dike building effort in my opinion.

I say to hell with that pot o' gold.

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You got it Horsager.

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Youd have to buy a generator and rig it up to a large fuel source. Its possible to do. Get one of the large chemical tanks that farmers use, and rig that to a generator thats large enough to run a decent sized pump. Might even be able to get one that just kicks in "on demand"? I dont know a lot about generators but where theres a will, theres a way! A lot of people wasted a lot of time and money on efforts that are going to be futile Im afraid, because they didnt think things out enough.

ggenthusiast Said:

Lycanthrope Said:
I think much of the problems people are going to have is, even if they build high enough. They are not thinking about how they are going to keep leaks and ground seepage away from their houses for up to 2 months. Lady I work with lives north of town and they have a high dike built but they are planning on turning off the power and abandoning their home, with no pumps to keep the water out. Most dikes will leak, even if its a small amount, after a few weeks that is going to be a BIG problem.

Ya think?  What happens when the power goes out and they won't allow access for folks to run generators for sump pumps?  The dikes better be tighter than a frog's ass, but we all know they won't/can't be when put up in a hurry.  Nothing but a feel-good, political dike building effort in my opinion.

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Lycanthrope Said:
Youd have to buy a generator and rig it up to a large fuel source. Its possible to do. Get one of the large chemical tanks that farmers use, and rig that to a generator thats large enough to run a decent sized pump. Might even be able to get one that just kicks in "on demand"? I dont know a lot about generators but where theres a will, theres a way! A lot of people wasted a lot of time and money on efforts that are going to be futile Im afraid, because they didnt think things out enough.

Pissing in the wind, in a situation such as this imo.

I say to hell with that pot o' gold.

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I have one simple question.......In the 1950's when the dam
was built and completed, does anyone know what the Corps
was thinking would be a "danger zone" as far as lake levels
and amount to be discharged?  In other words, did the Corps
ever anticipate that this type of situation may happen?  I'm
asking because I am wondering if the Corps "assumed"
everything would be handled no further than Ft Peck, and
the Garrison Dam was more for "water storage".

Please don't think these are dumb questions but when the
dam was being built, I lived in Garrison and my Dad worked
for NW Bell Telephone.  He put the first phone in Riverdale.
One our neighbors was an engineer for the dam, and I remember him
telling my Dad that the dam was built to help harness the river,

but in his opinion, the Missouri River could not be harnessed
because the water flow was much to strong.

Please don't be critical of my remarks, but I've been thinking
about this for the last couple of days.   Comments??????

Grey

566thMedCo/54thMedevacDet(Dust-Off)
"The louder you scream, the faster we come"

 
 

 

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greyrider Said:
I have one simple question.......In the 1950's when the dam
was built and completed, does anyone know what the Corps
was thinking would be a "danger zone" as far as lake levels
and amount to be discharged?  In other words, did the Corps
ever anticipate that this type of situation may happen?  I'm
asking because I am wondering if the Corps "assumed"
everything would be handled no further than Ft Peck, and
the Garrison Dam was more for "water storage".

Please don't think these are dumb questions but when the
dam was being built, I lived in Garrison and my Dad worked
for NW Bell Telephone.  He put the first phone in Riverdale.
One our neighbors was an engineer for the dam, and I remember him
telling my Dad that the dam was built to help harness the river,

but in his opinion, the Missouri River could not be harnessed
because the water flow was much to strong.

Please don't be critical of my remarks, but I've been thinking
about this for the last couple of days.   Comments??????

Grey

great question.  It would be like harnessing the wind really.

 

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Ive been hearing alot how Bis should be doing it this way or that or have one site instead of three or shouldve had Fargo officials take over and do it the right way etc, etc. All I can say is I have been very impressed how things are going at this point. The rate at which these dikes are being built is blowing my mind. When this all started I thought there is no way this will all get done in time and it is. The amount of trucks hauling dirt is also mind boggling. Anywhere you go in town you are constantly passing dump trucks 3 or 4 at a time every other minute. Work is getting done. Things started out a little slow and I was starting to wonder about my fellow peeps in Bis/Man but this last week I have been extremely impressed how people have been stepping up. I just hope this work is not in vain.
 
I could have sworn the river went down a little today. Like others have said I think the river system as a whole is gonna be a completely different animal when this is all said and done.

 "Play it Mr.Toot"

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There is only one river with a personality, a sense of humor, and a woman's caprice; a river that goes traveling sidewise, that interferes in politics, rearranges geography, and dabbles in real estate; a river that plays hide and seek with you today and tomorrow follows you around like a pet dog with a dynamite cracker tied to his tail. That river is the Missouri.
-George Fitch, circa 1840[10    I found this tidbit on Wikipedia. I realize there are people that are at wits end, mad, frustrated, and totally exhausted. Keep your faith in whatever higher power you believe in, hold your family close, and breathe. The river might take some of your stuff, but it won't take the stuff that matters.

"A true friend is one who overlooks your failures and tolerates your sucesses"

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IntroC Said:
Ive been hearing alot how Bis should be doing it this way or that or have one site instead of three or shouldve had Fargo officials take over and do it the right way etc, etc. All I can say is I have been very impressed how things are going at this point. The rate at which these dikes are being built is blowing my mind. When this all started I thought there is no way this will all get done in time and it is. The amount of trucks hauling dirt is also mind boggling. Anywhere you go in town you are constantly passing dump trucks 3 or 4 at a time every other minute. Work is getting done. Things started out a little slow and I was starting to wonder about my fellow peeps in Bis/Man but this last week I have been extremely impressed how people have been stepping up. I just hope this work is not in vain.
 
I could have sworn the river went down a little today. Like others have said I think the river system as a whole is gonna be a completely different animal when this is all said and done.

comparing the two cities is foolishness. 

 

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Worked on a sandbag dike for a coworker at ponderosa today,  they put me in charge and were shocked when I said we need a base of 10 sandbags across the bottom to rise the 4.5 feet we needed.  Personally I would have liked to make it wider at the bottom but so be it. 

Here is what got me.....there was a lady that was crying her eyes out at her approach begging for help to be diverted to their property.  I literally think that most of these folks just didn't think about the flooding possibility and are completely blindsided by it. 

Personally, I live in south bismarck, and by choice with full knowledge that I was in the 500 year floodplain. I am not bitching or whining to anybody about it. I put myself in this situation and I am prepared to help myself, my neighborhood and anybody I can...everyday for the next 6 weeks.  

For the first few days of the fight I got a sense of confusion, denial and division from the citizens and leadership.  Over the last few days things have drastically improved and I am getting a sense of community and focus that I think will help pull us all through.  I really think we are going to get through this and Bismarck will be BETTER then before. I closer knit community with neighbors being bonded to neighbors and a much tighter community. 

Sometimes it takes situations like this to unite a community, and I think it is finally taking place in Bismarck. 

On another note...word is getting around about my sandbag dike making experience and skills and I am getting all sorts of phone calls to inspect dikes, lead dike building projects and give advice.  It surely is humbling but I sure hope people don't blame me if the dikes i help build fail!!

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Lycanthrope Said:
Youd have to buy a generator and rig it up to a large fuel source. Its possible to do. Get one of the large chemical tanks that farmers use, and rig that to a generator thats large enough to run a decent sized pump. Might even be able to get one that just kicks in "on demand"? I dont know a lot about generators but where theres a will, theres a way! A lot of people wasted a lot of time and money on efforts that are going to be futile Im afraid, because they didnt think things out enough.

Rather than go the route of the "Rube Goldberg Long-Term Fueling Aparatus", how about buying a generator that runs on Nat'l gas and having it piped right in from your home like many do with their gas grill.  Plenty of fuel on tap, even if the power's out and never a worry about fuel stability like with a gasoline or diesel generator.

This moment is a paradox, it's the oldest you've ever been as well as the youngest you'll ever be.



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IntroC Said:
Ive been hearing alot how Bis should be doing it this way or that or have one site instead of three or shouldve had Fargo officials take over and do it the right way etc, etc. All I can say is I have been very impressed how things are going at this point. The rate at which these dikes are being built is blowing my mind. When this all started I thought there is no way this will all get done in time and it is. The amount of trucks hauling dirt is also mind boggling. Anywhere you go in town you are constantly passing dump trucks 3 or 4 at a time every other minute. Work is getting done. Things started out a little slow and I was starting to wonder about my fellow peeps in Bis/Man but this last week I have been extremely impressed how people have been stepping up. I just hope this work is not in vain.
 
I could have sworn the river went down a little today. Like others have said I think the river system as a whole is gonna be a completely different animal when this is all said and done.

I think can make a pretty safe guarentee here.  Should Bismarck ever be in a similar situation, they will NEVER have that 7-10day period of chaos again.  Many folks have climbed a very steep learning curve very quickly.  Plans and processes will be drafted and no one will wonder what to do next time.  Clear orders and a unified plan will be in place to be executed.  There'll be little to no deviation from that plan and "freelancing" your own dyke is unlikely to be tolerated.

This moment is a paradox, it's the oldest you've ever been as well as the youngest you'll ever be.



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Horsager Said:

Lycanthrope Said:
Youd have to buy a generator and rig it up to a large fuel source. Its possible to do. Get one of the large chemical tanks that farmers use, and rig that to a generator thats large enough to run a decent sized pump. Might even be able to get one that just kicks in "on demand"? I dont know a lot about generators but where theres a will, theres a way! A lot of people wasted a lot of time and money on efforts that are going to be futile Im afraid, because they didnt think things out enough.

Rather than go the route of the "Rube Goldberg Long-Term Fueling Aparatus", how about buying a generator that runs on Nat'l gas and having it piped right in from your home like many do with their gas grill.  Plenty of fuel on tap, even if the power's out and never a worry about fuel stability like with a gasoline or diesel generator.

I'm guessing the utility company will shut the gas off to the flooded areas.

 

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Horesager you dont know what you are even talking about or posting??Are  you high??

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eyexer Said:

Horsager Said:

Lycanthrope Said:
Youd have to buy a generator and rig it up to a large fuel source. Its possible to do. Get one of the large chemical tanks that farmers use, and rig that to a generator thats large enough to run a decent sized pump. Might even be able to get one that just kicks in "on demand"? I dont know a lot about generators but where theres a will, theres a way! A lot of people wasted a lot of time and money on efforts that are going to be futile Im afraid, because they didnt think things out enough.

Rather than go the route of the "Rube Goldberg Long-Term Fueling Aparatus", how about buying a generator that runs on Nat'l gas and having it piped right in from your home like many do with their gas grill.  Plenty of fuel on tap, even if the power's out and never a worry about fuel stability like with a gasoline or diesel generator.

I'm guessing the utility company will shut the gas off to the flooded areas.

Eyexer, you're probably right.

This moment is a paradox, it's the oldest you've ever been as well as the youngest you'll ever be.



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murdock1978 Said:
Horesager you dont know what you are even talking about or posting??Are  you high??

Ssssshhhhh!!

I got the rest of 'em buffalo'd.

This moment is a paradox, it's the oldest you've ever been as well as the youngest you'll ever be.



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Seems some think that the gun powder has soften your thinking ablity a bit Clay!

I think your last comment about the next time is accurate. Having talked with friends who are knee deep but experienced, they are seeing and saying pretty much what you just said.

In my lifetime I have seen fence row to fence row farming and the return of CRP and game to the landscape.Now we face again the prosepect of fence row to fence row again! Sportsman are our own worst enemy in that we fail to look forward and focus to much on the now!

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Mostly thought by them that haven't a clue about gunpowder.

This moment is a paradox, it's the oldest you've ever been as well as the youngest you'll ever be.



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What is it like living in La-La Land?  Someone please tell me.

You can't fight the missouri at this point in time.  Look at what its doing in Williston.  With current 3 miles wide, it does, and takes, whatever it wants.  It will find a weak spot in any dike it hits.  This effort is nothing more than local politics coupled with the blame game, and KFYR cuddle-cooing their listeners into a sense of security as well. 

If I'm wrong, I will admit it openly in a few months if and when I'm proven wrong.

The lesson here is not "learning" how to sandbag, rather "learning" how to build to avoid sandbagging.

I say to hell with that pot o' gold.

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ggenthusiast Said:
What is it like living in La-La Land?  Someone please tell me.

You can't fight the missouri at this point in time.  Look at what its doing in Williston.  With current 3 miles wide, it does, and takes, whatever it wants.  It will find a weak spot in any dike it hits.  This effort is nothing more than local politics coupled with the blame game, and KFYR cuddle-cooing their listeners into a sense of security as well. 

If I'm wrong, I will admit it openly in a few months if and when I'm proven wrong.

The lesson here is not "learning" how to sandbag, rather "learning" how to build to avoid sandbagging.

There is truth in what you say, but rivers like the MO can and have been fought back. In regards to where many built, I live in a 500 year flood plain. Not to many areas in the RRV that are not!

There are a number of places recently built in Bismarck that should not. But the majority are not these people it is not all about the homes. GF is a great example in that it was the infrastructure that suffered, crippled that city and the affects 14 years later still linger. So it is not simply about saving homes, it is about saving the city itself!

In my lifetime I have seen fence row to fence row farming and the return of CRP and game to the landscape.Now we face again the prosepect of fence row to fence row again! Sportsman are our own worst enemy in that we fail to look forward and focus to much on the now!

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There is a vast difference between the feasibility of dyking in Bis vs. RRV. The dyking in Bis is essentially all being done on what is the old "river bottoms". The dykes are being laid on sand that the river can undercut fairly easily if the flow decides to go that way.

This moment is a paradox, it's the oldest you've ever been as well as the youngest you'll ever be.



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ggenthusiast Said:
What is it like living in La-La Land?  Someone please tell me.

You can't fight the missouri at this point in time.  Look at what its doing in Williston.  With current 3 miles wide, it does, and takes, whatever it wants.  It will find a weak spot in any dike it hits.  This effort is nothing more than local politics coupled with the blame game, and KFYR cuddle-cooing their listeners into a sense of security as well. 

If I'm wrong, I will admit it openly in a few months if and when I'm proven wrong.

The lesson here is not "learning" how to sandbag, rather "learning" how to build to avoid sandbagging.

Are those to house below right below indian hill under water? That newer log cabin looking house on the east and that green house on the west with all the chickens?

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We have the resources and we have more pride than any other s"hole i've ever seen across the USA, others accept failure and are straight up lazy.  This is a small stumbling block on our way as we are amazing people and can overcome anything.  If sh*t goes wrong in one area what do we do, roll on and 'get er DONE.  Don't lose our ND pride, we are the toughest and smartest in this nation and will beat this.  Thanks to all and take pride people, this will go down in the books as one that was WON which is a rare feat as most just lay down and accept!!  I'm back at it in five hours, others join the battle and show others what it's all about.

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BringingTheRain Said:

Are those to house below right below indian hill under water? That newer log cabin looking house on the east and that green house on the west with all the chickens?

I think the log looking house is ok....he's about the elevation of the highway.  the older place on the west side i don't know.  But honestly, i was too busy looking at the water to notice either as I went by.

I say to hell with that pot o' gold.

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 People can bitch all they want about not building in old river bottom all they want. Bismarck doesn't regularly have flooding issues. In fact the ice jams a few years ago was the first major event this city has had in a long time and yet it wasn't that bad. Some of you that don't know squat need to watch your alligator mouth before your canary asses get handed to you. You same people need to get off your lazy asses and come down here and see this for yourself. Even if you never touch a sand bag. We probably wouldn't want your fricken help any way. People are pulling together and helping people. Strangers are strangers no more. There are a few A holes, I will not deny that, but for the most part people are making the best of this and it just shows what these 2 cities are made of. Plus the many that have come from the communities around us. 

IT IS BETTER TO ASK FOR FORGIVENESS THAN ASK FOR PERMISSION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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weatherdude Said:
We have the resources and we have more pride than any other s"hole i've ever seen across the USA, others accept failure and are straight up lazy.  This is a small stumbling block on our way as we are amazing people and can overcome anything.  If sh*t goes wrong in one area what do we do, roll on and 'get er DONE.  Don't lose our ND pride, we are the toughest and smartest in this nation and will beat this.  Thanks to all and take pride people, this will go down in the books as one that was WON which is a rare feat as most just lay down and accept!!  I'm back at it in five hours, others join the battle and show others what it's all about.

I respectfully disagree with some of what you've said.  ND is a great state, and the people of this state will help each other through it.  No lives will be lost, and those affected will have food/water/shelter, and they won't have to worry about looting or murder.  This will be nothing like Katrina.

As far as the "battle" to save property....I disagree. The flows that are coming your way, for the extended period of time, not considering Eastern MT/Western ND is ripe for heavy T-storms...man, wake up.  I have extensive background in heavy civil construction projects, and have seen numerous times how one tiny flaw in construction can compromise the integrity of whole.  So slapped-together earthen dikes withstanding weeks and weeks of saturation and current....in my mind something is guaranteed to give.

So what makes more sense?  Why all the hubbub?  Corp, City, and State officials are "doing something" cuz you gotta "do something".  Right, all you Conrad supporters?  They don't want their heads to roll next elections.  Politics, plain and simple.  A true leader would step up and say it.  Evacacuate now, and we'll save our money for the cleanup effort is what I would do.  But of course, everyone's pretty much guaranteed a newly re-built home from FEMA in the end, so why save your money now when you know you'll get a bailout?

We'll find out if I'm wrong in a couple months.  If I am, I will admit in and take a chapping over a wagon tongue if anyone feels the need.

I say to hell with that pot o' gold.

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simmsjs Said:
 People can bitch all they want about not building in old river bottom all they want. Bismarck doesn't regularly have flooding issues. In fact the ice jams a few years ago was the first major event this city has had in a long time and yet it wasn't that bad. Some of you that don't know squat need to watch your alligator mouth before your canary asses get handed to you. You same people need to get off your lazy asses and come down here and see this for yourself.

River at Bismarck has been documented many times to nearly 40 feet since we've been keeping records.  Thats 20 more feet that what you're going to see.  Even though we have dams, we cannot control what what comes into the system, only what leaves it.  Look at the photo I posted.  Don't think that can happen a hundred miles downstream when Sak is full?

There is a big difference between an alligator mouth and a voice of reason.  And there are people in this state that have jobs  that must go on regardless of whats happening in Bismarck.  And for the canary comment, I'll forgive for that, as I'm sure you are going through a very tough time and need to vent a little.

I say to hell with that pot o' gold.

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ggenthusiast Said:

weatherdude Said:
We have the resources and we have more pride than any other s"hole i've ever seen across the USA, others accept failure and are straight up lazy.  This is a small stumbling block on our way as we are amazing people and can overcome anything.  If sh*t goes wrong in one area what do we do, roll on and 'get er DONE.  Don't lose our ND pride, we are the toughest and smartest in this nation and will beat this.  Thanks to all and take pride people, this will go down in the books as one that was WON which is a rare feat as most just lay down and accept!!  I'm back at it in five hours, others join the battle and show others what it's all about.

I respectfully disagree with some of what you've said.  ND is a great state, and the people of this state will help each other through it.  No lives will be lost, and those affected will have food/water/shelter, and they won't have to worry about looting or murder.  This will be nothing like Katrina.

As far as the "battle" to save property....I disagree. The flows that are coming your way, for the extended period of time, not considering Eastern MT/Western ND is ripe for heavy T-storms...man, wake up.  I have extensive background in heavy civil construction projects, and have seen numerous times how one tiny flaw in construction can compromise the integrity of whole.  So slapped-together earthen dikes withstanding weeks and weeks of saturation and current....in my mind something is guaranteed to give.

So what makes more sense?  Why all the hubbub?  Corp, City, and State officials are "doing something" cuz you gotta "do something".  Right, all you Conrad supporters?  They don't want their heads to roll next elections.  Politics, plain and simple.  A true leader would step up and say it.  Evacacuate now, and we'll save our money for the cleanup effort is what I would do.  But of course, everyone's pretty much guaranteed a newly re-built home from FEMA in the end, so why save your money now when you know you'll get a bailout?

We'll find out if I'm wrong in a couple months.  If I am, I will admit in and take a chapping over a wagon tongue if anyone feels the need.

Water coming or not, the people are going to fight to the end, it is our nature in this state to do so. What do you want them to do? Walk away, roll  dirt in over Bismarck and Mandan?  I ,like Clay wonder about the dikes ablity to hold back the water with the sandy conditions, but that does not mean you roll over and die, just because you think they should!

Guys got attitude towards this, sometimes it takes that type of attitude and determination to survive these things or deal with the unexpected that can occur during a flood battle.

I wish him and all well in this fight! Losing Bis/Man would not be good for our state, just as it was not good when we lost GF! Only a baffoon would abandon the fight until it was clear you are going to lose.

The water is going to win some of the battles, but if the dikes hold the people win!

In my lifetime I have seen fence row to fence row farming and the return of CRP and game to the landscape.Now we face again the prosepect of fence row to fence row again! Sportsman are our own worst enemy in that we fail to look forward and focus to much on the now!

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I think Horsager has hit the nail right on the head about most of it. I do agree that Fargo does a great job of organizing the effort to fight the Red. Somtimes ts almost so organized if your not paying attention you don't even notice that the entire city is out sandbagging and building dikes. literally its so well run that the whole town can still operate without much interferance. although 2009 was special.

Permo I believe your doing the best you can to help everyone and yourself, and you are right about building that base wider than one might think it should be. its always better to be safe than sorry.

If this thing is really gonna last a couple months, holy crap and hold on Bis/Mandan its gonna be a wild ride. even the Red hasn't gone down yet but we are out of danger thankfully.


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gg --- fema's funding has stopped --- look at what is happening in joplin --- no money --- the house sits on the bill.    

Stay thirsty my friends

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Hosrager said it way better than I did.  I should take more time when I post but I don't.  It sounds like Bismarck is getting it together and I am very happy for them.  I have many relatives in the town that are all high and dry so that is mostly where I have been getting my information as well as listen to the radio and media. 
By the way they are running the State Class B Baseball tournament in Mandan right now??? Come on people.  They don't need any more Lookie Lou's in town.  Move the dang thing.

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The chance of a 500 yr flood is 0.2%. Correct me if I'm wrong. Too many people view even a 100 yr event like if won't happen in their life time. It can happen this year and next year and the next year etc.  There is a real disconnect between probability and reality.   I would imagine that many are now thinking $400/yr for flood insurance is a good deal.   Also,  the willingness to build in "flood zones" is promoted by the mentality that the Federal Govt will be there for a bailout if there is a "disaster".   When this whole scenario is debated to death over the next few months I'll speculate that the Corp will take no blame.

"The only enemy of guns is rust and politicians."

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 Why should Mandan move the baseball tournament? We also have a carnival this weekend; should that be cancelled too? I think not, live goes on, we need things that will give us a little break from the bleak. I have been sand bagging/moving furniture and rerouting rain gutter for 7 of the 9 days. I did take 2 days for myself to get my family out of town for a few days and the break was welcome and gave me new live for this past week. Our 2 cities have done an awesome job and we deserve to have something other than a sand bag or dike to look forward to. 

IT IS BETTER TO ASK FOR FORGIVENESS THAN ASK FOR PERMISSION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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According to this link the river has never gone to 40. Just under 32ft actually.
http://water.weather.gov/ahps2/crests.php?wfo=bis&gage=biwn8
That is unless you mean a gage height of 1640.
Which would be a river rise of about 22 feet from a normal level.

As for the dams not being able to control things, this would be the first time the dams can't handle the amount of water in the system around here. Without them every spring would be like the RRV. So the dams are more than beneficial. That and no weather man (maybe Tim could) can predict the amount of snow pack to come any given winter let alone the magnitude of springs rains in MT.

As for those fighting keep up the good work! Lots of nice people out there helping.
I personally don't think its about winning or losing, if a person that wants to save there home, they are always going to try. I hope those that do, win.
Phil

ggenthusiast Said:

simmsjs Said:
 People can bitch all they want about not building in old river bottom all they want. Bismarck doesn't regularly have flooding issues. In fact the ice jams a few years ago was the first major event this city has had in a long time and yet it wasn't that bad. Some of you that don't know squat need to watch your alligator mouth before your canary asses get handed to you. You same people need to get off your lazy asses and come down here and see this for yourself.

River at Bismarck has been documented many times to nearly 40 feet since we've been keeping records.  Thats 20 more feet that what you're going to see.  Even though we have dams, we cannot control what what comes into the system, only what leaves it.  Look at the photo I posted.  Don't think that can happen a hundred miles downstream when Sak is full?

There is a big difference between an alligator mouth and a voice of reason.  And there are people in this state that have jobs  that must go on regardless of whats happening in Bismarck.  And for the canary comment, I'll forgive for that, as I'm sure you are going through a very tough time and need to vent a little.

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