Game warden runs into rock on a section line. Farmer in trouble

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guywhofishes's picture
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Ha ha - who was that? Lothspeich or whatever his name was is the guy that checked us on occasion (mid 80s). He seemed even keeled.

 

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Can't recall the name.  Hmm!! actually I will never forget it, just don't care to name him by name as he may have ripened in the last twenty years and I don't want him spinning cookies around my home in the middle of the night.

"Believe you can and you're halfway there."

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AdrenalineAddict Said:
Can't recall the name.  Hmm!! actually I will never forget it, just don't care to name him by name as he may have ripened in the last twenty years and I don't want him spinning cookies around my home in the middle of the night.

the image i have of the warden spinning cookies made me lol

 Adn

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gst Said:

Farnorth Said:

So, if you suffered monetary damages and there was a responsible party who could successfully be pursued for payment, would you eat the cost yourself?

If I  ran into a 3 foot by 4 foot rock because I wasn';t paying attention to where I was driving in an trail area that by all modern math estimates gave me at least 62 feet to miss said rock Because I was watching what was going on in the field beside the trail instead of watching where I was driving............................yes I would eat the cost of my own stupidity. .

You dodged the question.

In this case the YOU is the State of North Dakota (not the Game Warden).

So again, if YOU suffer damage to your property and somebody else is LEGALLY LIABLE, do you eat the cost because you're such a great guy or do you pursue the party that is legally responsible?

BTW, any answer other than pursue it is a lie.

If it was you driving down a section line (not yours) and hit a rock that was placed there by the landowner and you totaled out your brand new $60,000 pickup you wouldn't turn in an insurance claim?  BS.  Keep in mind that turning in a claim could very well result in your insurance carrier going after the landowner for payment.  That is if your insurance carrier is any good.  So, pretty much the same thing.

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Insurance doesn't "EAT" things ---- they go after the responsible party--- they weigh the legal fees/collection costs vs. eating and then proceed.   Wouldn't the farmer's insurance kick in ?? They all have protocol.   I am not a lawyer ---somebody who is can chime in --- if the rock placement was 55% at fault and the game warden was 45% then by state law the one who is at fault is the one with the higher percentage --- correct me if I am wrong.

Stay thirsty my friends

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SHORTHAIRSRUS Said:
Insurance doesn't "EAT" things ---- they go after the responsible party--- they weigh the legal fees/collection costs vs. eating and then proceed.   Wouldn't the farmer's insurance kick in ?? They all have protocol.   I am not a lawyer ---somebody who is can chime in --- if the rock placement was 55% at fault and the game warden was 45% then by state law the one who is at fault is the one with the higher percentage --- correct me if I am wrong.

One then has to wonder if the farmer's request for a civil complaint vs. criminal would've ultimately been adjudicated by his own insurance co. against the state for improperly treating a criminal action as a civil action.

I don't disagree that there should be a more "common sense" way to handle this, unfortunately one has to understand that every situation like this potentially sets a legal precedent.  One well meaning landowner who's made an honest MISTAKE has to be treated in the same manner as someone who continually challenges authority by doing stuff like this on purpose with intent to harm/damage other's property.  

This moment is a paradox, it's the oldest you've ever been as well as the youngest you'll ever be.



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guywhofishes Said:
Ha ha - who was that? Lothspeich or whatever his name was is the guy that checked us on occasion (mid 80s). He seemed even keeled.

AdrenalineAddict Said:
Can't recall the name.  Hmm!! actually I will never forget it, just don't care to name him by name as he may have ripened in the last twenty years and I don't want him spinning cookies around my home in the middle of the night.

I would have to say guy has him named.

John Browning=GENIUS
NDA Rocks!

guywhofishes's picture
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huntorride365 Said:

guywhofishes Said:
Ha ha - who was that? Lothspeich or whatever his name was is the guy that checked us on occasion (mid 80s). He seemed even keeled.

AdrenalineAddict Said:
Can't recall the name.  Hmm!! actually I will never forget it, just don't care to name him by name as he may have ripened in the last twenty years and I don't want him spinning cookies around my home in the middle of the night.

I would have to say guy has him named.

Hmmm... He was (and likely still is) pretty "energetic" as I recall. But if I remember correctly he was semi-active in the same local archery scene as us, so we knew him. So maybe for that reason he cut back on the offense when he engaged with us in the field, due to his familiarity with us.

In any event we appreciated his enthusiasm when it came to patrolling the actions of those bastages from out east who came to hunt our local deer!

(I was going to college in Dickinson at the time)

 

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Farnorth Said:

gst Said:

Farnorth Said:

So, if you suffered monetary damages and there was a responsible party who could successfully be pursued for payment, would you eat the cost yourself?

If I  ran into a 3 foot by 4 foot rock because I wasn';t paying attention to where I was driving in an trail area that by all modern math estimates gave me at least 62 feet to miss said rock Because I was watching what was going on in the field beside the trail instead of watching where I was driving............................yes I would eat the cost of my own stupidity. .

You dodged the question.

In this case the YOU is the State of North Dakota (not the Game Warden).

So again, if YOU suffer damage to your property and somebody else is LEGALLY LIABLE, do you eat the cost because you're such a great guy or do you pursue the party that is legally responsible?

BTW, any answer other than pursue it is a lie.

If it was you driving down a section line (not yours) and hit a rock that was placed there by the landowner and you totaled out your brand new $60,000 pickup you wouldn't turn in an insurance claim?  BS.  Keep in mind that turning in a claim could very well result in your insurance carrier going after the landowner for payment.  That is if your insurance carrier is any good.  So, pretty much the same thing.

I didnl;t dodge jack shit.

You asked me if I would go after someone else for recovering damages it there was a way and I explained pretty plainly that if I had my head up my ass and caused the damage I would not.

I did not say I would not turn it into MY insurance company and eat the cost of an increased premium, I made it clear I would not hold whom ever placed the rock on the side of a section line of the trail that I had 60 some feet to miss responsible.

A BIG DIFFERENCE that is not that hard to understand  if you are not a whiney jack ass that blames everyone else looking to cover your own stupidity.

Remember here dumbass the warden admitted right away that it was HIS fault for not looking where he was going and admitted to feeling pretty "dumb" for veering off the trail and hitting a rock.

Here is a question for you farnorth, do you take responsibiltiy for your own stupid actions even if there is someone else to blame?

BTW, any answer other than no is a lie.

People that think every situation like this is black and white and that common sense should not and can not enter into these type things were likely the hall monitor in grade school

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 Gst why yell at everyone?  U r not on trial here... 

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ChetSpilunkey Said:
 Gst why yell at everyone?  U r not on trial here... 

silence! or you will be drawn and quartered.

 

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submit the bill [fine] to the local wildlife club, non profit right?

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 Ol' gst is definitely getting crabbier with age

 

 "I get what you're saying:  Like a sausage replica featuring a Polander holding a sacred illumination device." 

 

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Horsager Said:
 
SHORTHAIRSRUS Said:
Insurance doesn't "EAT" things ---- they go after the responsible party--- they weigh the legal fees/collection costs vs. eating and then proceed.   Wouldn't the farmer's insurance kick in ?? They all have protocol.   I am not a lawyer ---somebody who is can chime in --- if the rock placement was 55% at fault and the game warden was 45% then by state law the one who is at fault is the one with the higher percentage --- correct me if I am wrong.

One then has to wonder if the farmer's request for a civil complaint vs. criminal would've ultimately been adjudicated by his own insurance co. against the state for improperly treating a criminal action as a civil action.

I don't disagree that there should be a more "common sense" way to handle this, unfortunately one has to understand that every situation like this potentially sets a legal precedent.  One well meaning landowner who's made an honest MISTAKE has to be treated in the same manner as someone who continually challenges authority by doing stuff like this on purpose with intent to harm/damage other's property.  

Bingo!

"Diligence is the mother of good luck."

"The constitution only gives people the right to pursue hapiness.  You have to catch it yourself."

"Well done is better than well said."

"Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy."

All by:  Benjamin Franklin.

"The solution to any problem - work, love, money, whatever - is to go fishing, and the bigger the problem, the longer the trip should be."

Author: John Gierach

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Captain Ahab Said:
 
Horsager Said:
 
SHORTHAIRSRUS Said:
Insurance doesn't "EAT" things ---- they go after the responsible party--- they weigh the legal fees/collection costs vs. eating and then proceed.   Wouldn't the farmer's insurance kick in ?? They all have protocol.   I am not a lawyer ---somebody who is can chime in --- if the rock placement was 55% at fault and the game warden was 45% then by state law the one who is at fault is the one with the higher percentage --- correct me if I am wrong.

One then has to wonder if the farmer's request for a civil complaint vs. criminal would've ultimately been adjudicated by his own insurance co. against the state for improperly treating a criminal action as a civil action.

I don't disagree that there should be a more "common sense" way to handle this, unfortunately one has to understand that every situation like this potentially sets a legal precedent.  One well meaning landowner who's made an honest MISTAKE has to be treated in the same manner as someone who continually challenges authority by doing stuff like this on purpose with intent to harm/damage other's property.  

Bingo!

Unfortunately.

"Diligence is the mother of good luck."

"The constitution only gives people the right to pursue hapiness.  You have to catch it yourself."

"Well done is better than well said."

"Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy."

All by:  Benjamin Franklin.

"The solution to any problem - work, love, money, whatever - is to go fishing, and the bigger the problem, the longer the trip should be."

Author: John Gierach

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Is it still an honest mistake if the landowner told his relatives, who then told the gamewarden, that he put the rock there for his neighbor to hit? Why aren't people getting a police report before making assumptions? It should be an open public record after the filing of charges.

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Wags86 Said:
 Ol' gst is definitely getting crabbier with age

It has always been a pet peeve when people try to find some way to blame someone else for their stupidity.

We were raised that if you did something stupid you accepted the consequences and didn;t try to make someone else pay for them.

There would have been a way to recover the cost of the damage to the vehicle without dragging this guy to court and stepping on whatever relationship building the G&F has engaged in over the past few years.

This story IS making it's way around the coffee shops already.

But hey ex hall monitors like farnorth demand that justice be served and the letter of the law be followed.

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Well im sure you will do what u can to put down hunters because of this fiasco.

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PippyMcPipperson Said:
Well im sure you will do what u can to put down hunters because of this fiasco.

Only ones that are whiney jackasses trying to blame their own stupidity on someone else.

Try not to let it hurt your feelings there dick pippy.

ND Ice Pirate Said:
Is it still an honest mistake if the landowner told his relatives, who then told the gamewarden, that he put the rock there for his neighbor to hit? Why aren't people getting a police report before making assumptions? It should be an open public record after the filing of charges.

I heard from some one that told somebody that they heard something from someone else that heard this happened............................

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gst Said:

.

I didnl;t dodge jack shit.

You asked me if I would go after someone else for recovering damages it there was a way and I explained pretty plainly that if I had my head up my ass and caused the damage I would not.

I did not say I would not turn it into MY insurance company and eat the cost of an increased premium, I made it clear I would not hold whom ever placed the rock on the side of a section line of the trail that I had 60 some feet to miss responsible.

A BIG DIFFERENCE that is not that hard to understand  if you are not a whiney jack ass that blames everyone else looking to cover your own stupidity.

Remember here dumbass the warden admitted right away that it was HIS fault for not looking where he was going and admitted to feeling pretty "dumb" for veering off the trail and hitting a rock.

Here is a question for you farnorth, do you take responsibiltiy for your own stupid actions even if there is someone else to blame?

BTW, any answer other than no is a lie.

People that think every situation like this is black and white and that common sense should not and can not enter into these type things were likely the hall monitor in grade school

You didn't answer the question that was asked.  You changed it to make a point.  I don't think I actually called you a name did I?  I wanted to.  We're done here necause you obviously don't get it..

BTW, the Warden didn't decide what action the STATE took in this case.  It was out of his hands.

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Horsager Said:
 

SHORTHAIRSRUS Said:
Insurance doesn't "EAT" things ---- they go after the responsible party--- they weigh the legal fees/collection costs vs. eating and then proceed.   Wouldn't the farmer's insurance kick in ?? They all have protocol.   I am not a lawyer ---somebody who is can chime in --- if the rock placement was 55% at fault and the game warden was 45% then by state law the one who is at fault is the one with the higher percentage --- correct me if I am wrong.

One then has to wonder if the farmer's request for a civil complaint vs. criminal would've ultimately been adjudicated by his own insurance co. against the state for improperly treating a criminal action as a civil action.

I don't disagree that there should be a more "common sense" way to handle this, unfortunately one has to understand that every situation like this potentially sets a legal precedent.  One well meaning landowner who's made an honest MISTAKE has to be treated in the same manner as someone who continually challenges authority by doing stuff like this on purpose with intent to harm/damage other's property.  

My educated guess would be that the farmer's insurance has an exception for instances where his actions are illegal.  So, in a civil action, his insurance would not only provide him with legal representation, they would have paid for any damages net of the deductible.

Some insurance carriers might have covered him in this instance because it doesn't necessarily fit what they typically write these exceptions for.  It's so uncommon that I'm not sure how we could ever know for sure.

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Farnorth Said:

Horsager Said:
 

SHORTHAIRSRUS Said:
Insurance doesn't "EAT" things ---- they go after the responsible party--- they weigh the legal fees/collection costs vs. eating and then proceed.   Wouldn't the farmer's insurance kick in ?? They all have protocol.   I am not a lawyer ---somebody who is can chime in --- if the rock placement was 55% at fault and the game warden was 45% then by state law the one who is at fault is the one with the higher percentage --- correct me if I am wrong.

One then has to wonder if the farmer's request for a civil complaint vs. criminal would've ultimately been adjudicated by his own insurance co. against the state for improperly treating a criminal action as a civil action.

I don't disagree that there should be a more "common sense" way to handle this, unfortunately one has to understand that every situation like this potentially sets a legal precedent.  One well meaning landowner who's made an honest MISTAKE has to be treated in the same manner as someone who continually challenges authority by doing stuff like this on purpose with intent to harm/damage other's property.  

My educated guess would be that the farmer's insurance has an exception for instances where his actions are illegal.  So, in a civil action, his insurance would not only provide him with legal representation, they would have paid for any damages net of the deductible.

Some insurance carriers might have covered him in this instance because it doesn't necessarily fit what they typically write these exceptions for.  It's so uncommon that I'm not sure how we could ever know for sure.

We're on the same page in that if the state had pursued this civilly, his Ins. Co. would likely have had the case dismissed due to this being a criminal vs. civil matter.

This moment is a paradox, it's the oldest you've ever been as well as the youngest you'll ever be.



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Just for the record, let's understand what would likely happen here if the circumstances were similar and it was a private individual who hit the rock.

1.  You are driving down the section line and hit the same rock that was PLACED there.
2.  You turn it in to your insurance agent because you have full coverage.
3.  The company discovers in the adjustment process that, under State Law, the rock was placed their illegally (intent doesn't really matter).
4.  Your insurance company would be likely to initiate an action against the person who placed the rock there to recover the damages.
5.  The farmers insurance carrier can then either defend the action or deny coverage because of their policy language.
6.  The initial carrier can then decide how far they want to pursue the action and if they want to file a complaint which could bolster their chances of winning in court.

That's basically what happened here

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gst Said:
There would have been a way to recover the cost of the damage to the vehicle without dragging this guy to court and stepping on whatever relationship building the G&F has engaged in over the past few years.

Please explain how that could happen.  For the record, I wish there was a way for that to happen.  I guess what I'd like to hear is how do you recover the damage to the vehicle in this instance without then absolving future "rock/obstruction placers" of any wrongdoing?  I think we both know that there are folks out there who, if they knew this guy was let off, would place all sorts and manners of obstructions upon section lines adjacent to land they owned, and frankly, upon section lines that they just didn't want folks to drive on for whatever reason.

I kind of wish everything didn't have to be fair to everyone all the time.  It'd be nice to take each situation individually without them setting precedent for each future event.  It'd be nice to give good guys a break while really sticking it to those who are perpetual problem makers.

 

gst Said:

It has always been a pet peeve when people try to find some way to blame someone else for their stupidity. 

We were raised that if you did something stupid you accepted the consequences and didn;t try to make someone else pay for them. 

Just so we're clear, who's stupid here?

1.  The warden for running into the rock?

2.  The adjacent landowner for placing the rock within the right of way?

Again, to clarify, who's trying to make someone else pay?

1.  The state?

2.  The adjacent landowner who wanted to be sued civilly so his Ins. Co. would pay?

This moment is a paradox, it's the oldest you've ever been as well as the youngest you'll ever be.



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I think the world would be a better place of gst's mom would have swallowed him the night of conception.

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Now that I've moved my mailbox 33' from the center of the road.  Maybe we as sportsman should donate to make this man whole again?

                                                                                                                         

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 Mail man will not travel that far to deliver your mail ,  You will have to pick your mail up at the nearest post office. 

WormWiggler Said:
Now that I've moved my mailbox 33' from the center of the road.  Maybe we as sportsman should donate to make this man whole again?

 

 

 

Life is good
 

 

 

 

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I have also heard if you leave a ladder leaning against your house and some random person climbs up, falls off, and gets hurt, you are also responsible for such injuries as the home owner.

Or if you happen to have someone breaking into your home and the get hurt in the process, well you are on the hook for that too.

A rock placed in the right of way is right in line with all of this, it is what it is

Neat

guywhofishes's picture
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boy would I LOVE to see a pic of said rock and section line

anybody got coordinates? bet you can see that big bugger in google earth


 

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So if I go out in the badlands and hit a rock on a section line on federal land will they fix my pickup

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