# Global Warming is to blame???

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svnmag
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Joined: 11/3/02

"International studies" on Gorebal Warming.  Here's who pays for the hallowed international "studies".  Dispicable statue in front of the garbage U.N.

Nuke the Whales

fishmahn
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Joined: 12/30/10

Hardwaterman,
My client?? What are you talking about? Where do you get this stuff? The clients I'm dealing with are not in anyway connected to what we're talking about or are you using some kind of convoluted rhetoric that is not quite projecting in this format?. AS far a s Fox news take your pick on the foolishness they've broadcast in the past months. I will not repeat it here unless you wish me to. That's another subject. I was merely showing the link you used and the entity bringing the suit as a well known proponent for the fossil fuel industry. We're you even aware of that? My leaders caught in a lie? Go back to your link as far as corruption and special interests are involved and it's looking right in face.
Science is ongoing. We as a specie have a lot to learn. To come to definitive position with every t crossed is probably something that will never happen. To blindly continue something that is not in a species best interest is also not a path to pursue. The consequences we possibly face could be
catastrophic. Surely even you must have some questions as to what is happening. To sit , do nothing except Yell conspiracy,...well it just kind of makes me tired but it is very characteristic of the radical right which also the problem the republicans are having into solidifying a party.

svnmag
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Joined: 11/3/02

fishmahn,

He got the "client" stuff from me.  I was making fun of you and he read it.  He obviously has a stronger stomach and greater disipline to READ every word.

Nuke the Whales

fishmahn
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Joined: 12/30/10

synmag,
Gee, I thought manly, outdoors type people all had strong stomachs and the ability to assimilate data..  I'll make a note of this for future reference.  Guess you're just part of an unfortunate rumor mill.  So let me get this straight.   Twisted gun barrels pay for international studies in response to climate change?   Actually I don't think the two really relate no matter what type of metaphor your attempting.  No matter how hard you try to stretch and contort it's just not happening.

Hardwaterman
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Joined: 11/6/02

Again is warming of the globe a bad thing? Projections claim that it is, but again we go back to the same thing and that the models are not being run on accurate data and in many areas data that they do not have is created and it is not created without bias.

Fox,MSNBC,CNN? There is a difference and of all the News outlets, Fox has the highest trust factor in almost every poll done.

Now back on subject which is the data used to make the claims about the AGW crisis! If you discount a claim by this organization, then why should we not discount the claims of the IPCC and other science review journals that have knowingly published false data or did not retract the data after they knew it was false without being called on the carpet?

Is all the data corrupt? No I do not believe it is, but sifting through the material to find unbiased data is very hard to do regardless of the position that they take. I guess the studies that I have read that come from people who held a belief one way or the other and after looking at the data they collected or those who have taken a study and duplicated the results of the studies are the ones I lend credence to.

Most of what you have stated as reasons are not in that class. The so called NASA scientist falls into the class of doctored data, and because he made waves against GW which was popular has been given special treatment from those who are not suppose to allow it. So what is the reason?

I go back to when I was growing up. We had a fire and brimstone person in our community who always railed against something, be it drinking, smoking,whatever! A lot of people believed him, until they found out he was a silent partner in a bar in a neighboring town. A lot of these people have put their career paths on AGW being correct. For them to have to eat crow would be devastating. They have a vested interest in making sure that nothing challenges that.

So we are back to the same point and that is the science is incomplete and not worthy of moving forward with as factual!

In my lifetime I have seen fence row to fence row farming and the return of CRP and game to the landscape.Now we face again the prosepect of fence row to fence row again! Sportsman are our own worst enemy in that we fail to look forward and focus to much on the now!

fishmahn
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Joined: 12/30/10

Hardwater,
Yes,....is warming a bad thing? The Marshal islands are disappearing. Since a nation has never disappeared before what happens to the inhabitants? guess that's one the Un has to deal with huh? How about the obliteration of Lohachara island? How are the Maldives doing? And that sea ice at the poles. Talk to the polar bears and see if they've developed a better back stroke.
I can't believe you brought Fox news Up again. The University of Maryland study called "misinformation and the 2010 election" looked at "variation in misinformation by exposure to the news sources in print, online and network t.v. news broadcast, NPR & PBS, " FOX NEWS, MSNBC & CNN.The study found that daily Fox news viewers, regardless of party, erroneously believed that
1. Most economists estimate the stimulus caused job loss.
2MOST SCIENTISTS DO NOT AGREE CLIMATE CHANGE IS OCCURRING.
3. The stimulus package did not include any tax cuts.
4Their own taxes had gone up.
5The auto bail out occurred under Obama.
6.When tarp came up for vote most republicans opposed it.
7and that it is not clear that Obama was born in the U.S,
The study also found that as exposure to Fox News increased so did the misinformation.
This study was released in the wake of leaked memos that Fox News D,.C. Bureau chief Bill Sammon instructing staffers to cast doubt on climate change and to parrot gop talking points on the health care debate.

Farnorth
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Joined: 5/23/02

1.  If you listen to Foxnews all the time you will be misinformed.
2.  If you listen to MSNBC all the time, you will be misinformed.
3.  If you listen to CNN all the time, you will be misinformed.
Get the point?

But, If you listen to FoxNews all the time and use it as your source, you will be the King of Fishingbuddy.  Almost everybody will agree with you almost all the time.

If you only hang out with people who think the same way you do, the time will come when you are convinced EVERYBODY thinks that way.  Funny how that works.  It's comfortable but you seldom learn anything new.

Keep it up guys, the exchanges on this thread are more educational than most.  No name calling.  Excellent.

Murdock
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Joined: 7/12/03

Farnorth,He reports,you decide!!!

Farnorth
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Joined: 5/23/02

murdock1978 Said:
Farnorth,He reports,you decide!!!

Darn it!!!  I was trying a little trolling run there and you cut me off.

cynical
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Joined: 10/27/04

Farnorth Said:
1.  If you listen to Foxnews all the time you will be misinformed.
2.  If you listen to MSNBC all the time, you will be misinformed.
3.  If you listen to CNN all the time, you will be misinformed.
Get the point?

But, If you listen to FoxNews all the time and use it as your source, you will be the King of Fishingbuddy.  Almost everybody will agree with you almost all the time.

If you only hang out with people who think the same way you do, the time will come when you are convinced EVERYBODY thinks that way.  Funny how that works.  It's comfortable but you seldom learn anything new.

Keep it up guys, the exchanges on this thread are more educational than most.  No name calling.  Excellent.

Wrong.  You can not name a better more accurate news source than Fox News.
I watch them all for entertainment purposes.    NBC, CBS, ABC, PBS, MSNBC, CNBC are pretty much the same.

"The only enemy of guns is rust and politicians."

"The best defense against usurpatory government is an assertive citizenry."

William F. Buckley, Jr.
"Unarmed helplessness is for sheep and the French."  Ted Nugent

"The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it."
-Thomas Jefferson

The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.
-Thomas Jefferson

Hardwaterman
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Joined: 11/6/02

Sea rise and the Marshal Islands! Good one! You are aware are you not that even if you factor out what you deem as AGW, that these islands are going to be reclaimed into the sea anyway!Average sea level rise is about 8" a century and projected increases for AGW with sound science is a slight increase in the rate of rise.

Now if you buy into the extreme that sea levels are going to rise if the Arctic Ice Cap melts think again It is floating sea ice. Now lets move to the next gloom and doom and that is Greenland which is returning to similar conditions that it experienced during prior to the 1400's! But here is the key, in that the losses of snow pack and ice in Greenland is being picked up and deposited on the south pole. I know, I know, great expanses of ice are breaking of the peninsulas of Antarctica adding to the sea level rise!

Now lets go back to the point about floating sea ice not adding to the ocean levels!

The extremes claim feet of rise in 30 years others see little to no change as the continental rise continues the ocean capacity to hold water increases! Which brings us right back to what I have said before in that a crisis is needed to secure funding streams!

Oh! Have you heard that the gate keepers of the sea level recordings have been padding the totals. They claim it is just a minimal amount that means nothing but it adds about an inch of rise a century. Which does not seem like much but when you are talking about 8"  fudged vs 7" reality add that up over time and you get the picture.

I am sure the great people of Minot and Burlington and others down steam of the two rivers are confident in our Gov to get things right!

In my lifetime I have seen fence row to fence row farming and the return of CRP and game to the landscape.Now we face again the prosepect of fence row to fence row again! Sportsman are our own worst enemy in that we fail to look forward and focus to much on the now!

fishmahn
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Joined: 12/30/10

Tell the people of the Marshal islands about fudging figures Hard water.  They are asking for advice  from the Center for climate change as their shorelines erode and drinking water goes saline.  People have lived there for centuries.
The World health Organization blames 150,000 deaths/ yr. on the effects of climate change including heat, reduced food production and just extreme weather conditions.  There are also over 280 species of plants and animals responding to climate change, many of them not very successfully.  I guess it does have it's benefits though.  You can now witness Pizzlies in the wild!
I never once mentioned sea ice increasing levels.  The land ice however that  is disappearing at an alarming rate in Antarctica is a different story.  AS far as "continental rise" are you hoping for a Tsunami to tear into the shelf , undermine and save the coastline despite high coastal levels?.  MIght get the Tsunami but that's about it.
You mention 8"/year rise.  Since the 19th century(industrialization) sea levels have risen around 1/10"/yr.  That is not metric btw.This is unprecendented for the recent geologic past.  Are you aware many people Ie Jersey Gov. Christie has been informed that a plan needs to be drawn up for a sea level rise of nearly 3 ft. by the end of the century?
Perhaps though you're right.  This is all just a conspiracy.  A conspiracy brought on by our state to get a mass migration of people and industry to North Dakota.  I however hope we have a response and not just rhetoric, resistance and mouth service.   It will ruin the fishing and hunting !

fishmahn
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Joined: 12/30/10

typing too fast. That 8" yr should be 8"/century.

guywhofishes
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Much of the Marshals are lower than sea level... so even storm surges and waves f up their groundwater. They have been on the teatering edge for centuries. And the ocean levels go up/down all through history (big shocker) and not necessarily linked to CO2.

Conflicting evidence
There is no doubt that sea level is currently rising on a global scale. However, in 2001, IPCC concluded that "no significant acceleration in the rate of sea level rise during the 20th century has been detected." In 2007, IPCC noted that "global mean sea level rose at an average rate of 1.8 mm per year from 1961 to 2003. The rate was faster from 1993 to 2003: about 3.1 mm per year. Whether the faster rate for 1993 to 2003 reflects decadal variability or an increase in the longer-term trend is unclear."

from:

Look at the scale of the history graph. It's in meters. Holy Cow! Whoever claims to "know" what is going to happen to sea levels, temps, etc. or whether we have any direct hand in what happens - is full of BS.

svnmag
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Joined: 11/3/02

fishmahn,

I assimilated the data of which ANY anti-Communist would deduce:  Globalists are using Gun Control and Gorebal Warming to destroy Capitalism and the Middle Class.

Nuke the Whales

svnmag
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Joined: 11/3/02

I can't believe I'm trying to argue this shiite at this time.  I thank God for my home and pray for the victims of this cursed devastation.  I feel guilty for even having Internet access.

Nuke the Whales

Db
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Joined: 9/11/09

I pissed in the ocean once while in nam.
Chief of smoke said if I keep doing that I would warm the water up, melt the ice caps, flood San Francisco and then the long hair freaks would have to move to North Dakota.
So I quit pissing in the ocean.
And then I had a beer and never ponder again on this.
Until today.
Memories.
db

Db

svnmag
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Joined: 11/3/02

That's beautiful man...

http://youtu.be/Of368QdosR0

Nuke the Whales

fishmahn
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Joined: 12/30/10

guywhofishes,
What do you call a "significant rise?" Sea level rise has occurred at rate of 1.8mm/yr as a "mean"rate. More recently, rates are ranging from2.9-3. One yr. 2008, it was lower then this mean but it was still above 1.8 mm.
In 2011 JPL (US) projected the sea level rise of 32 cm by the year 2050. Scientific evidence support the claim the current sea level is caused by global warming. There may be short term changes (ie 2008) due seasonal variation, astronomical tides or rotational variations. Now everyone should understand the part about the astronomical tides unless bill oreilly is reading this.
If you look beyond this and go to geological data ,average sea level changes have risen at a rate of .1-.2 over the last 3000 years. Seems a little different as of late.
And once again I hear the statement there have been changes before! This is getting old but yes, through catastrophic disasters there have been changes. What happened? The annihilation or near extinction of much of what existed here. Co2 and other greenhouse gases have the propensity to harbor an extraordinary amount of heat per unit. Our atmosphere is warming, our oceans are warming, the land ice is shrinking at an unprecedented rate, the sea level rise is accelerating so I guess it's best to do nothing? Only if you have the life cycle of grasshopper and you don't really care about all your little hoppers left behind.

fishmahn
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synmag,
Your response on commies from swampland? Good one, I hope that was your attempt at levity. But your right. There's nothing like cruisin aroun the bayou, gettin a few gators and maybe a commie or two ta boot. Dats what I'm talkin bout!

fishmahn
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Confirming and refining the situation regarding sea level rise (multi-meter by 2100 without steep emission reductions according to James Hansen, remember?): A new study in Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences reconstructs sea level rise on the US Atlantic coast for the past 2,100 years and finds that since the 19th century rates have been higher than at any other point in that time period. What's more, they show a consistent link with changes in global temperatures.

Murdock
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fishmahn Said:
Confirming and refining the situation regarding sea level rise (multi-meter by 2100 without steep emission reductions according to James Hansen, remember?): A new study in Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences reconstructs sea level rise on the US Atlantic coast for the past 2,100 years and finds that since the 19th century rates have been higher than at any other point in that time period. What's more, they show a consistent link with changes in global temperatures.

Is this the same James Hansen??

http://nation.foxnews.com/climate-change/2011/06/22/global-warming-scientist-james-hansen-exposed

cynical
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fishmahn Said:
Confirming and refining the situation regarding sea level rise (multi-meter by 2100 without steep emission reductions according to James Hansen, remember?): A new study in Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences reconstructs sea level rise on the US Atlantic coast for the past 2,100 years and finds that since the 19th century rates have been higher than at any other point in that time period. What's more, they show a consistent link with changes in global temperatures.

Is that the best you can do fishmahn?   Why don't you quote your hero Algore?

"The only enemy of guns is rust and politicians."

"The best defense against usurpatory government is an assertive citizenry."

William F. Buckley, Jr.
"Unarmed helplessness is for sheep and the French."  Ted Nugent

"The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it."
-Thomas Jefferson

The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.
-Thomas Jefferson

multi-species-angler
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no one argues that the oceans are rising and have risen.  its why they are rising that is up to debate.  just the movement of the continents by just inches per year has an effect on the climate causing "climate change"  Look at estimated temperatures over the last 4.5 billion years and you start to feel pretty comfortable knowing that the last million have been more stable and people friendly than ever.

yes, there will always be sinking and rising islands due to rising & falling sea levels and volcanoes and coral and there will always be climate change (with or without humans) floods, tsunamis, fires, extinctions....welcome to planet earth, you're not that big a deal.

I still ain't buyin a ghey prius

Tacoman
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There is one thing to learn from this and that is polar bears aren't your friend.  If you think they are you might end up getting your head bit off...

multi-species-angler
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Enslow Said:
There is one thing to learn from this and that is polar bears aren't your friend.  If you think they are you might end up getting your head bit off...

yeah, polar bears eat all the cute cuddly seals and belugas anyway..."go away polar bear, nobody likes you"  When that last polar bear dies there will still be 7 billion people on the planet wondering whats gonna happen on Jersey Shore tonight.

in other words you're fighting a losing battle fishmahn.

eyexer
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I know it's fun to expose fishmahn for what he is, a full blown, koolaid drinking agw alarmist.  But this horse is dead.

Hardwaterman
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I still ain't buyin a ghey prius

How about a powder blue one????????

In my lifetime I have seen fence row to fence row farming and the return of CRP and game to the landscape.Now we face again the prosepect of fence row to fence row again! Sportsman are our own worst enemy in that we fail to look forward and focus to much on the now!

ND 58201
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Joined: 4/27/04

I hope you losers keep hashing this out while the 99.5% of the rest of us Americans keep living life the way we should. It's really noble work you are doing but in the end it does not mean crap. I have lived as good of a life as my grandfather, as my father, and his grandfather, gloom and doom will certainly come true some day but no one will predict when so just keep on keeping on. I expect my kids to have a better life than I had, and that is asking a lot!

eyexer
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southpaw21 Said:
I hope you losers keep hashing this out while the 99.5% of the rest of us Americans keep living life the way we should. It's really noble work you are doing but in the end it does not mean crap. I have lived as good of a life as my grandfather, as my father, and his grandfather, gloom and doom will certainly come true some day but no one will predict when so just keep on keeping on. I expect my kids to have a better life than I had, and that is asking a lot!

pretty true statement.  and if your an honest christian you know this global whatever it's called now days is nothing more than horsepucky.

multi-species-angler
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Hardwaterman Said:

I still ain't buyin a ghey prius

How about a powder blue one????????

no you don't understand...that wasn't a typo or a color....GHEY

Hardwaterman
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multi-species-angler Said:

Hardwaterman Said:

I still ain't buyin a ghey prius

How about a powder blue one????????

no you don't understand...that wasn't a typo or a color....GHEY

NO! I got it! Thus the

In my lifetime I have seen fence row to fence row farming and the return of CRP and game to the landscape.Now we face again the prosepect of fence row to fence row again! Sportsman are our own worst enemy in that we fail to look forward and focus to much on the now!

multi-species-angler
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Oh yeah...."wink wink"

scary man
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man is not God

free thinker = no thinker

ggenthusiast
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Umm, why do we even bother talking about climate change.  Its been happening since the beginning of time, man is a part of nature, so whatever happens is perfectly natural.  If man screws it up so bad that we can't survive, then that the first step in a series of events in which our bones are the fossils for future beings to discover.  Geez.

I say to hell with that pot o' gold.

svnmag
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Joined: 11/3/02

fishmahn,

So who's side would you be on?  The Swampers or the Commies?

Nuke the Whales

fishmahn
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Joined: 12/30/10

Hmmm,. *l* same ole boys been busy I see.   Do any of you really fish or just sit around and watch Fox Fantasy 24/7?
Murdock &Gutshot-So did JH engage in public speaking and profit from it while he was a public employee?  If he did he shouldn't have but  one has to look at the source used (Fox fantasy network) but more importantly the prosecutor here,the same   right wing, nonprofit organization  that is trying to reverse a voter mandated move in Colorado to get more solar and wind power into the state.  A bill is being circulated to make the Non Profit  org. to divulge it's contributors since most of the movement is pro coal, pro oil and pro gas.  Hmmm,..hey guys here's another conspiracy for you to look into.   YOu guys must not have read that previous series of post as this has already been discussed.

Eyexer-You call me an alarmist?  Just quoting facts that are occurring while you sit and forget history,.. just not generally but on a personal level.  So far the only horse that' dead are a few brain cells among a select few posters.  You go on to agree with one that  states that 99.5% of people discussing this are losers.  You seem to forget at one time you announced your approximate tax load.   I really hate to do this, but Barney you're really not one of the big players in this economy so you probably shouldn't throw stones of this type.

Svnmag-I find the swampers quite entertaining for a short period of time.  After that  it's kind of predictable I guess.
AS far as commies,....in case you haven't heard we won the cold war.  You can put your pop gun back in the cabinet and rest easy.

eyexer
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fishmahn Said:
Hmmm,. *l* same ole boys been busy I see.   Do any of you really fish or just sit around and watch Fox Fantasy 24/7?
Murdock &Gutshot-So did JH engage in public speaking and profit from it while he was a public employee?  If he did he shouldn't have but  one has to look at the source used (Fox fantasy network) but more importantly the prosecutor here,the same   right wing, nonprofit organization  that is trying to reverse a voter mandated move in Colorado to get more solar and wind power into the state.  A bill is being circulated to make the Non Profit  org. to divulge it's contributors since most of the movement is pro coal, pro oil and pro gas.  Hmmm,..hey guys here's another conspiracy for you to look into.   YOu guys must not have read that previous series of post as this has already been discussed.

Eyexer-You call me an alarmist?  Just quoting facts that are occurring while you sit and forget history,.. just not generally but on a personal level.  So far the only horse that' dead are a few brain cells among a select few posters.  You go on to agree with one that  states that 99.5% of people discussing this are losers.  You seem to forget at one time you announced your approximate tax load.   I really hate to do this, but Barney you're really not one of the big players in this economy so you probably shouldn't throw stones of this type.

Svnmag-I find the swampers quite entertaining for a short period of time.  After that  it's kind of predictable I guess.
AS far as commies,....in case you haven't heard we won the cold war.  You can put your pop gun back in the cabinet and rest easy.

Since your so full of answers, why don't you take all the articles I posted earlier and break down each one and tell us how they are wrong.

Murdock
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cynical
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hey fishmahn,   what kind of vehicle do you drive and what kind of heating/cooling system in your home.   Let's see if you walk the walk or just sit back and talk the talk.

"The only enemy of guns is rust and politicians."

"The best defense against usurpatory government is an assertive citizenry."

William F. Buckley, Jr.
"Unarmed helplessness is for sheep and the French."  Ted Nugent

"The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it."
-Thomas Jefferson

The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.
-Thomas Jefferson

eyexer
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3XGutshot Said:
hey fishmahn,   what kind of vehicle do you drive and what kind of heating/cooling system in your home.   Let's see if you walk the walk or just sit back and talk the talk.

I think we all know the answer to that.  It's similar to the PETA people screaming "save the animals" while they're wearing leather shoes,lol

BringingTheRain
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It's not global warming, it's the corp of engineers......duuuuuh

marauder29
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Nothing like looking at 2 points  and calling it a trend.... but I guess global warming was in charge in the late 80's... say 1987ish... in that case put some money on the Twins winning the World Series again.

I worked for a large financial servies company and lived in Manhattan 4 years ago and all of my liberal friends at work decided that we as a group needed to be more informed about Global Warming so they brought in a leading expert from a European Country. Seriously, we paid him thousands of dollars to educate us... but what was not in the pklan was that a small majority in our group were mid-westerners who grew up on the prairies of ND, KS and Iowa... understanding the cycles we have seen through out our lives.

Being statistical experts and consultants we ate him alive with questions about the data and sampling techniques used in his data collection and the interpretations from it. Do I believe that there are too many humans on planet Earth ... probably... but that is less a problem with global warming and more a resource scarcity problem.

For all we know, the magnetic field of the Earth has shifted causing the flows of magma and other liquid core materials to migrate and heat other parts of the Earth's crust... you tell me which is more likely... considering in the Sumatra earth quake that the Earth actually shifted its position on axis... but liberals can keep blaming human intervention... and push social programs to correct it...

eyexer
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marauder29 Said:
Nothing like looking at 2 points  and calling it a trend.... but I guess global warming was in charge in the late 80's... say 1987ish... in that case put some money on the Twins winning the World Series again.

I worked for a large financial servies company and lived in Manhattan 4 years ago and all of my liberal friends at work decided that we as a group needed to be more informed about Global Warming so they brought in a leading expert from a European Country. Seriously, we paid him thousands of dollars to educate us... but what was not in the pklan was that a small majority in our group were mid-westerners who grew up on the prairies of ND, KS and Iowa... understanding the cycles we have seen through out our lives.

Being statistical experts and consultants we ate him alive with questions about the data and sampling techniques used in his data collection and the interpretations from it. Do I believe that there are too many humans on planet Earth ... probably... but that is less a problem with global warming and more a resource scarcity problem.

For all we know, the magnetic field of the Earth has shifted causing the flows of magma and other liquid core materials to migrate and heat other parts of the Earth's crust... you tell me which is more likely... considering in the Sumatra earth quake that the Earth actually shifted its position on axis... but liberals can keep blaming human intervention... and push social programs to correct it...

very good points.  this is why many call liberalism a mental illness.  they feel they just have to make mankind suffer to make themselves feel better.  They want everybody to feel ashamed to use one iota of our natural resources.  and most of them do this while driving down the highway in their gas guzzling SUV's.

fishmahn
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Joined: 12/30/10

I know this is difficult for the desciples of  Fox  silliness  that hang on every word of glen beck, bill oreily nand rush the druggy to accept  but Global Warming is based on facts.  The scientific community that  actually studies weather phenomenon does not dispute these facts.  Right wing pro fossil fuel advocates attempted to  high light a petition  signing by scientists  that have little to do with climatology.  As was stated   "Anyone can have their own opinion but you are not entitled to your own facts."
The data shows the past ten years have been the warmest on record.  The greenhouse effect is real, the more co2 that is present in the upper atmoshpere the hotter it becomes down here.  Denying this cannot undo facts.  Repeating a lie does not make it a fact.  Facts really should trump Fox fueled fairy tales.
Just for the record in response to "skewed fact possibilities"
In 2008 opponents of climate change spent $450 million in the us in lobbying and political contributions to to nay sayers. Seven out of eight climate lobbyists in Washington dispute the need for climate action which amounts to more then 2000 paid deniers. Paid lobbyists in the recent years have increased 300% In 2009 the coal industry spent$45 million \in advertising to deny global warming.
People are presently being hired to flood radio, TV airways with denials, doubt, and confusion concerning global warming.
Political talk shows, internet blogs and corporate commercials are not the place to find facts about climate.
Barney aka eyexer- you mention" thinking for yourself" as a mental  illness?  I believe you also referred to me as an alarmist.   Who was it that upon hearing of Gifford being shot replied,  "Has THE REVOLUTION BEGUN?"  I guess that not an alarmist,...it's just ill.

Db
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Joined: 9/11/09

I came to the conclusion:

Some were hard to follow.
The two of you have more knowledge on this subject than what I have or every will have.
Fishmahn, it's tough out there.

However, 40 years ago a E-7 told me to quit pissing in the ocean.
He stated why, I believed.  I did not tell him about a study that was done.
I did my part by not pissing in the ocean anymore.
And then I had a beer, it was as simple as that and that is all I have to say about that.
db

Db

Hardwaterman
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Joined: 11/6/02

fish people are hired to promoted one cause over another using your reasoning then any law,legislation or course of action that is influenced by a lobbyist is untrue.This means that AGW using your own logic is untrue as well.

You keep avoiding the number one issue and that is the science regarding GW cause is incomplete, the data that you claim is fact is not. It is theory which is not fact nor is a consensus fact. I know you and others like you do not like to hear this, but at one time the science community thought the world flat. The consensus on many fossils has been proven wrong as well. The list goes on and on where consensus have been proven to be incorrect.

There are many gases in the atmosphere which have a much higher reflective nature than CO2 and are more prevalent in concentration levels. These are more likely to be the drivers and CO2 levels the affect. Deforestation keeps getting blamed for rise in CO2 but there are more trees and fauna that absorb CO2 today on land than at almost any time in our recorded history.

To advance your agenda AGW just HAS TO BE TRUE! It just HAS TO!!!!! Otherwise your world view crumbles. For people like myself, I am not a denier of GW, I am a questioner of the data that is pointing the finger at one issue of it as the cause because of the manipulation of data to support it. If the data is so pure then why does it need to be embellished?

In my lifetime I have seen fence row to fence row farming and the return of CRP and game to the landscape.Now we face again the prosepect of fence row to fence row again! Sportsman are our own worst enemy in that we fail to look forward and focus to much on the now!

fishmahn
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Joined: 12/30/10

Hardwaterrman,
Not really understanding your logic right from the start. Seven out of eight lobbyists in regard to climate in Washington are paid to argue against it. Maybe those with the facts are relying on the facts and not someone to spin. I know there are cases of inconsistency on some studies but by and large one has to look at the bigger picture and what is happening overall. One can not dispute there is something happening and the fact that this last decade is the hottest on record.
You mechanism of co2 above also seems unclear. Co2 acts in manner to not allow heat to escape. Other things such as water vapor can influence the picture but after saturation it rains, and the vapor dissipates unlike co2.
Your most interesting statement above involves deforestation. I'd hoped you weren't a Rush man because I've heard him spout this. However in difference to what you stated, the forest and plant communities cover approximately 9% of the earth's surface (30% of total land area) They once covered about 50% of the land area. In the US alone, before the European settlement, forrests covered nearly 1 billion acres. Since the mid 1600's about 300 million acres have been cleared.
Yes at one time many considered the world was flat. It took people of vision, ambition and action to prove differently.

Hardwaterman
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Joined: 11/6/02

You imply  that anyone who lobby's is corrupt. Thus regardless of the numbers for or against an issue they are doing so with false data or claims. You step into your own trap when you try and use stats as an example of why it is bad that 8 of 10 are wrong, but if 8 of 10 studies are saying AGW is a good thing!

You remind me of a guy I know from WI who actually believes that by the State of WI paying him and the State collecting taxes on his wage that they actually are going to have more money to fund other programs that the state needs.

He simply cannot accept any reality outside of his narrow field of view as being right!

I keep pointing out to you that the current data no matter how weighted to AGW is severely incomplete as to be considered usable to set standards for future consideration. You do not want to address this issue. I do not care if 100% of the data said this, it is still incomplete to make accurate projections.

Let's take the temp records they use. As much as 80% of the data used is made up. By made up I am pointing out that from much of the European and Asian records they have huge gaps in recordings. So what did they do, took a regional average and plugged it in. Now that elevates the overall temp for the region because they admit in the research they did it and why. The data going in was biased toward warming.

Now let's talk about satellite readings and the intentional bumping up of the data by simply taking readings or images when it will show more infrared heat signatures. Time of day is critical in this as well as cloud cover. NASA has been under fire for this and has made many corrections, but those corrections are not being used or shown in the data.

You have to ask why? That is what I am getting at Fish ! I do not take this stuff with blind faith, I actually try and find out how accurate the data is! Summary reports are not always the best thing to use, what is most telling is dissenting analysis of a report, because many of them point out the inconsistent of a test and why they could not duplicate it

Mann's Hockey stick is a prime example, he ran all the data and then cherry picked a start time and then tried to claim the Little Ice Age was simply a regional event which it has been demonstrated to have been a global event.

Then there is the distortion of melting of ice and the affects of the ice melt on sea levels. How many times have we heard that the Arctic ice cap melt is going to raise the sea levels by feet. It is not nor can it. Granted some of the ice melting on land will add new water but floating sea ice will not. Again data being misrepresented! Most of the people who write of this have stated that global sea ice levels have remained pretty constant with declines in the north off set by gains in the south. This change in location is consistent with fossil records and these changes are cyclical.

So back to the point, all and I mean all of the computer projections are run with incomplete data many of them with less than 20% verified data and the rest with data plugged in as a best guess that is influenced with bias.

The fact that I discount this as fact should not surprise anyone nor should anyone accept these as facts with that little actual detail!

So bring on more complete data that is not corrupted with bias and it will garner some serious consideration. Until then your play book of consensus,and attack those who question the credibility for good reason those who have made these claims is going to continue.

In my lifetime I have seen fence row to fence row farming and the return of CRP and game to the landscape.Now we face again the prosepect of fence row to fence row again! Sportsman are our own worst enemy in that we fail to look forward and focus to much on the now!

svnmag
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Joined: 11/3/02

and the hacked e-mails revealing the falisification of "data".  Hee Haw.  They ain't gonna take my "Pappy's shootgun".

Nuke the Whales