Global Warming is to blame???

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fishmahn
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Harwater,
Who ever said warming has not occurred before??>? Remember the little comparison of just because lightning strikes(nature) can start a fire, it does not mean Man can't do the same thing with matches???You also speak of water vapor.  Water vapor can trap heat however it doesn't stay locked within the entire shroud of the atmosphere does it?   It eventually rains and dissipates.  You mention the vapor may be holding the co2 not allowing the oceans or land to absorb it.  So the water vapor is holding around 40% of the co2?  Is it just possible with the warmer currents and other slowing of absorption it's just not happening period to the 40%?
For the record global warming is a scientific consensus recognized by the national science academies of all major industrialized countries and not rejected by any scientific body of national or international standing.
multi-
Anything occurred from 1980 since thats your starting point?  Perhaps the retreat of arctic sea ice, antartic land ice, perma frost or maybe an island or two gone ,...missing??  Does it seem like we may be subject to frequent extremes in weather events such as droughts, heatwaves,  tidal waves and heavy rainfall globally?
As of may 2010 the only member of unfccc that were asked to  sign the treaty and didn't were the USA and....(we're in good company here) Afgahnistan.
By 2009 the mean global temperatures was 14.5 C.  The warmest is hundreds and probably thousands of years.

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bigguy,
Global warming alarmist?  read above post.  It appears the alarmists have infiltrated nearly every national and international scientific facility on the planet.

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Luv to stay but the flood calls.

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fishmahn Said:
Gutshot,
Go on a trip, visit some islands, grab your snorkel and get back to me okay?

I just got back from vacation.   What is your point?

"The only enemy of guns is rust and politicians."

"The best defense against usurpatory government is an assertive citizenry."

William F. Buckley, Jr.
"Unarmed helplessness is for sheep and the French."  Ted Nugent

"The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it."
 -Thomas Jefferson

The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.
-Thomas Jefferson

 

 

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Again you miss the point that a consensus is not fact, nor is a consensus alway right. The consensus of the 70's was Global cooling and glaciers reforming. Many of that same group by the 90's where of a consensus that AGW was the next crisis.

To better grasp this, 1 out of 87 grants awarded where given to GW research once it was clear that the scare of the return of the ice age had waned. So you go in write your grant stating you want to research on climate change and do not include the idea that it is caused by man or CO2 the grants do not get handed out! Funny how that works and you wonder why there is a consensus?

Like so many things the more you peel away the layers the more you learn. This is the case with AGW. What I have learned is that when you peel the layers back the data used and the claims made are not standing up!

For example as I pointed out, with the Great Lakes, the head lines stated that GW was going to cause the Great Lakes to disappear. As stated before the change in depth of the GL is a result of crust rebound which in the future threatens the Great Lakes in that natural barriers that hold back water currently are going to be gone and the lakes will drain into the Atlantic. Distortion of the facts to fit an agenda has soured many on what can and what should be considered with any seriousness.

I want to know fish what is going on, but I am not blind to rhetoric and to deceit, championed by the IPCC! Read some of the many dissenting comments from the contributors on the manipulation of their work and how it was presented and represented by this body.

There simply is not currently any credibility in the AGW claims even if they are correct. From Mann to the IPCC the constant manipulation to inflate things into"crisis" mode had gutted this!

Now we see again the left's philosophy of never let a crisis get away with out exploiting it is shining through. Katrina,tornado's,floods,blizzards,record cold,record heat, it is all tied to GW according to them.

Stop and think for a moment about this. Devils Lake is a great example, it has in the past been this large or larger before climate conditions changed and it started to dry down. Now it somehow is a surprise the lake is once again returning to a size it was not so long ago and it is global warming that is the culprit, same with the flooding in Minot and Bismarck. Models never predicted these events because they did not have the data in order to do it.

So if your arguments are not taken seriously it is more the fault of people crying wolf and getting caught doing it!

Thus it is clear, we need unbiased studies done that can be trusted and not manipulated! then come back and talk!

In my lifetime I have seen fence row to fence row farming and the return of CRP and game to the landscape.Now we face again the prosepect of fence row to fence row again! Sportsman are our own worst enemy in that we fail to look forward and focus to much on the now!

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http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/06/22/nasa-scientist-accused-using-celeb-status-among-environmental-groups-to-enrich/

Thought this was funny considering what we have been talking about, especially the lack of ethics when it comes to money and grants and funding!

In my lifetime I have seen fence row to fence row farming and the return of CRP and game to the landscape.Now we face again the prosepect of fence row to fence row again! Sportsman are our own worst enemy in that we fail to look forward and focus to much on the now!

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Hardwaterman,
You just gave me a good laugh.  It appears this topic as been twisted into credibility in regard to fraud, furthering agendas etc and then you post that link as????????
First it comes from the Fox Fantasy network.  It only gets better whenI see the prosecution.
ATP, the same group that's attempting to overturn Colorado's renewable energy ,mandate.  Even Xcel energy is confused by the suit.  The voters  of the state started the movement to bring more wind and solar power to their state!  Gail Scwartz, Democratic congress woman is weighing a bill that would compel 501(c) 4 nonprofit groups like ATP and it's affiliate Western Tradition to reveal their donors and their contribution to 527 groups that have been highly active in recent elections.
Even republican politicians have argued the groups have gone too far using questionable campaign tactics to further pro coal,. pro oil and gas!
It seems to me you really aren't attempting to find any real answers at all.  Talk  about parroting what you hear.   By using this as a part of your argument any credibility you may have had is gone.  You're mouthing the ultra right wing fringe. 
Let me ask you this.  What exactly are you getting by mouth this  fluff???

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svnmag Said:

LOL, i remember that '77 topic we where all going to freeze.

Neat

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John R,
What's so funny about freezing? When warming occurs and accelerates what happens?? There is a disappearance of ice from the glaciers and polar ice caps. This is cool fresh water that flows into the northern Atlantic. This will in turn shut down the Gulf stream which keeps the North America and Europe warm. You probably didn't look beyond the cover of either of those magazines.

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No fish, the issues surrounding this NASA person are not new, however you really tell a lot about your client,when you dis Fox as you did. Like it or not, the issue is credibility and the GW crowd has none because of the actions of the people at the top from the IPCC all the way down. NASA,NOAA,all are dependent upon Gov funding and need crisis level issues to sustain funding when budgets are tight.

If the verdict is in, then why is more funding and study needed? You have given us the solution, end CO2 use by man now! What more is needed to be studied?

See in the real world and not the to use your term FANTASY world, credibility matters a good deal.To make it simple for you to grasp, what has been taking place is the people advancing GW at the crisis level where walking under an apple tree and had an apple fall on them, but they reported that the entire tree fell on them instead. Others said, show me the tree we want to see where it happened and why. Your leaders caught in the lie, then said we removed the tree, and filled in the hole and planted a new one, you have to trust us that it happened!

Do you get it now?

Every change to something is linked back no matter how minuscule it is if there is even a link, to GW!

So again, my statement that the science is incomplete is accurate, and that fraud, deception and improved ethics on the side of research and reviews has to be elevated so that we can get an honest and clear answer as to whether or not man has actually influenced the rate at which the planet is warming and to what end that warming rate may be slowed if it actually should be slowed!

Remember, NOAA,NASA,IPCC as well as many of the science review journals all have been caught with their pants down endorsing data they knew was incorrect! So trotting them out as gospel is a joke!

In my lifetime I have seen fence row to fence row farming and the return of CRP and game to the landscape.Now we face again the prosepect of fence row to fence row again! Sportsman are our own worst enemy in that we fail to look forward and focus to much on the now!

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"International studies" on Gorebal Warming.  Here's who pays for the hallowed international "studies".  Dispicable statue in front of the garbage U.N.

 

 Nuke the Whales

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Hardwaterman,
My client?? What are you talking about? Where do you get this stuff? The clients I'm dealing with are not in anyway connected to what we're talking about or are you using some kind of convoluted rhetoric that is not quite projecting in this format?. AS far a s Fox news take your pick on the foolishness they've broadcast in the past months. I will not repeat it here unless you wish me to. That's another subject. I was merely showing the link you used and the entity bringing the suit as a well known proponent for the fossil fuel industry. We're you even aware of that? My leaders caught in a lie? Go back to your link as far as corruption and special interests are involved and it's looking right in face.
Science is ongoing. We as a specie have a lot to learn. To come to definitive position with every t crossed is probably something that will never happen. To blindly continue something that is not in a species best interest is also not a path to pursue. The consequences we possibly face could be
catastrophic. Surely even you must have some questions as to what is happening. To sit , do nothing except Yell conspiracy,...well it just kind of makes me tired but it is very characteristic of the radical right which also the problem the republicans are having into solidifying a party.

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fishmahn,

He got the "client" stuff from me.  I was making fun of you and he read it.  He obviously has a stronger stomach and greater disipline to READ every word. 

 Nuke the Whales

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synmag,
Gee, I thought manly, outdoors type people all had strong stomachs and the ability to assimilate data..  I'll make a note of this for future reference.  Guess you're just part of an unfortunate rumor mill.  So let me get this straight.   Twisted gun barrels pay for international studies in response to climate change?   Actually I don't think the two really relate no matter what type of metaphor your attempting.  No matter how hard you try to stretch and contort it's just not happening.

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Again is warming of the globe a bad thing? Projections claim that it is, but again we go back to the same thing and that the models are not being run on accurate data and in many areas data that they do not have is created and it is not created without bias.

Fox,MSNBC,CNN? There is a difference and of all the News outlets, Fox has the highest trust factor in almost every poll done.

Now back on subject which is the data used to make the claims about the AGW crisis! If you discount a claim by this organization, then why should we not discount the claims of the IPCC and other science review journals that have knowingly published false data or did not retract the data after they knew it was false without being called on the carpet?

Is all the data corrupt? No I do not believe it is, but sifting through the material to find unbiased data is very hard to do regardless of the position that they take. I guess the studies that I have read that come from people who held a belief one way or the other and after looking at the data they collected or those who have taken a study and duplicated the results of the studies are the ones I lend credence to.

Most of what you have stated as reasons are not in that class. The so called NASA scientist falls into the class of doctored data, and because he made waves against GW which was popular has been given special treatment from those who are not suppose to allow it. So what is the reason?

I go back to when I was growing up. We had a fire and brimstone person in our community who always railed against something, be it drinking, smoking,whatever! A lot of people believed him, until they found out he was a silent partner in a bar in a neighboring town. A lot of these people have put their career paths on AGW being correct. For them to have to eat crow would be devastating. They have a vested interest in making sure that nothing challenges that.

So we are back to the same point and that is the science is incomplete and not worthy of moving forward with as factual!

In my lifetime I have seen fence row to fence row farming and the return of CRP and game to the landscape.Now we face again the prosepect of fence row to fence row again! Sportsman are our own worst enemy in that we fail to look forward and focus to much on the now!

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Hardwater,
Yes,....is warming a bad thing? The Marshal islands are disappearing. Since a nation has never disappeared before what happens to the inhabitants? guess that's one the Un has to deal with huh? How about the obliteration of Lohachara island? How are the Maldives doing? And that sea ice at the poles. Talk to the polar bears and see if they've developed a better back stroke.
I can't believe you brought Fox news Up again. The University of Maryland study called "misinformation and the 2010 election" looked at "variation in misinformation by exposure to the news sources in print, online and network t.v. news broadcast, NPR & PBS, " FOX NEWS, MSNBC & CNN.The study found that daily Fox news viewers, regardless of party, erroneously believed that
1. Most economists estimate the stimulus caused job loss.
2MOST SCIENTISTS DO NOT AGREE CLIMATE CHANGE IS OCCURRING.
3. The stimulus package did not include any tax cuts.
4Their own taxes had gone up.
5The auto bail out occurred under Obama.
6.When tarp came up for vote most republicans opposed it.
7and that it is not clear that Obama was born in the U.S,
The study also found that as exposure to Fox News increased so did the misinformation.
This study was released in the wake of leaked memos that Fox News D,.C. Bureau chief Bill Sammon instructing staffers to cast doubt on climate change and to parrot gop talking points on the health care debate.

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1.  If you listen to Foxnews all the time you will be misinformed.
2.  If you listen to MSNBC all the time, you will be misinformed.
3.  If you listen to CNN all the time, you will be misinformed.
Get the point?

But, If you listen to FoxNews all the time and use it as your source, you will be the King of Fishingbuddy.  Almost everybody will agree with you almost all the time. 

If you only hang out with people who think the same way you do, the time will come when you are convinced EVERYBODY thinks that way.  Funny how that works.  It's comfortable but you seldom learn anything new.

Keep it up guys, the exchanges on this thread are more educational than most.  No name calling.  Excellent.

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Farnorth,He reports,you decide!!!

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murdock1978 Said:
Farnorth,He reports,you decide!!!

Darn it!!!  I was trying a little trolling run there and you cut me off.

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Farnorth Said:
1.  If you listen to Foxnews all the time you will be misinformed.
2.  If you listen to MSNBC all the time, you will be misinformed.
3.  If you listen to CNN all the time, you will be misinformed.
Get the point?

But, If you listen to FoxNews all the time and use it as your source, you will be the King of Fishingbuddy.  Almost everybody will agree with you almost all the time. 

If you only hang out with people who think the same way you do, the time will come when you are convinced EVERYBODY thinks that way.  Funny how that works.  It's comfortable but you seldom learn anything new.

Keep it up guys, the exchanges on this thread are more educational than most.  No name calling.  Excellent.

Wrong.  You can not name a better more accurate news source than Fox News.
I watch them all for entertainment purposes.    NBC, CBS, ABC, PBS, MSNBC, CNBC are pretty much the same.

"The only enemy of guns is rust and politicians."

"The best defense against usurpatory government is an assertive citizenry."

William F. Buckley, Jr.
"Unarmed helplessness is for sheep and the French."  Ted Nugent

"The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it."
 -Thomas Jefferson

The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.
-Thomas Jefferson

 

 

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Sea rise and the Marshal Islands! Good one! You are aware are you not that even if you factor out what you deem as AGW, that these islands are going to be reclaimed into the sea anyway!Average sea level rise is about 8" a century and projected increases for AGW with sound science is a slight increase in the rate of rise.

Now if you buy into the extreme that sea levels are going to rise if the Arctic Ice Cap melts think again It is floating sea ice. Now lets move to the next gloom and doom and that is Greenland which is returning to similar conditions that it experienced during prior to the 1400's! But here is the key, in that the losses of snow pack and ice in Greenland is being picked up and deposited on the south pole. I know, I know, great expanses of ice are breaking of the peninsulas of Antarctica adding to the sea level rise!

Now lets go back to the point about floating sea ice not adding to the ocean levels!

The extremes claim feet of rise in 30 years others see little to no change as the continental rise continues the ocean capacity to hold water increases! Which brings us right back to what I have said before in that a crisis is needed to secure funding streams! 

Oh! Have you heard that the gate keepers of the sea level recordings have been padding the totals. They claim it is just a minimal amount that means nothing but it adds about an inch of rise a century. Which does not seem like much but when you are talking about 8"  fudged vs 7" reality add that up over time and you get the picture.

I am sure the great people of Minot and Burlington and others down steam of the two rivers are confident in our Gov to get things right!

In my lifetime I have seen fence row to fence row farming and the return of CRP and game to the landscape.Now we face again the prosepect of fence row to fence row again! Sportsman are our own worst enemy in that we fail to look forward and focus to much on the now!

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Tell the people of the Marshal islands about fudging figures Hard water.  They are asking for advice  from the Center for climate change as their shorelines erode and drinking water goes saline.  People have lived there for centuries.
The World health Organization blames 150,000 deaths/ yr. on the effects of climate change including heat, reduced food production and just extreme weather conditions.  There are also over 280 species of plants and animals responding to climate change, many of them not very successfully.  I guess it does have it's benefits though.  You can now witness Pizzlies in the wild!
I never once mentioned sea ice increasing levels.  The land ice however that  is disappearing at an alarming rate in Antarctica is a different story.  AS far as "continental rise" are you hoping for a Tsunami to tear into the shelf , undermine and save the coastline despite high coastal levels?.  MIght get the Tsunami but that's about it.
You mention 8"/year rise.  Since the 19th century(industrialization) sea levels have risen around 1/10"/yr.  That is not metric btw.This is unprecendented for the recent geologic past.  Are you aware many people Ie Jersey Gov. Christie has been informed that a plan needs to be drawn up for a sea level rise of nearly 3 ft. by the end of the century?
Perhaps though you're right.  This is all just a conspiracy.  A conspiracy brought on by our state to get a mass migration of people and industry to North Dakota.  I however hope we have a response and not just rhetoric, resistance and mouth service.   It will ruin the fishing and hunting !

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typing too fast. That 8" yr should be 8"/century.

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Much of the Marshals are lower than sea level... so even storm surges and waves f up their groundwater. They have been on the teatering edge for centuries. And the ocean levels go up/down all through history (big shocker) and not necessarily linked to CO2.

Conflicting evidence
There is no doubt that sea level is currently rising on a global scale. However, in 2001, IPCC concluded that "no significant acceleration in the rate of sea level rise during the 20th century has been detected." In 2007, IPCC noted that "global mean sea level rose at an average rate of 1.8 mm per year from 1961 to 2003. The rate was faster from 1993 to 2003: about 3.1 mm per year. Whether the faster rate for 1993 to 2003 reflects decadal variability or an increase in the longer-term trend is unclear."

from:

http://www.geoportalen.no/planetenjorden/klima/sealevel/

Look at the scale of the history graph. It's in meters. Holy Cow! Whoever claims to "know" what is going to happen to sea levels, temps, etc. or whether we have any direct hand in what happens - is full of BS.

 

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fishmahn,

I assimilated the data of which ANY anti-Communist would deduce:  Globalists are using Gun Control and Gorebal Warming to destroy Capitalism and the Middle Class.

 Nuke the Whales

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I can't believe I'm trying to argue this shiite at this time.  I thank God for my home and pray for the victims of this cursed devastation.  I feel guilty for even having Internet access.

 Nuke the Whales

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I pissed in the ocean once while in nam.  
Chief of smoke said if I keep doing that I would warm the water up, melt the ice caps, flood San Francisco and then the long hair freaks would have to move to North Dakota.
So I quit pissing in the ocean. 
And then I had a beer and never ponder again on this.
Until today. 
Memories. 
db

Db

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That's beautiful man...

http://youtu.be/Of368QdosR0

 Nuke the Whales

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guywhofishes,
What do you call a "significant rise?" Sea level rise has occurred at rate of 1.8mm/yr as a "mean"rate. More recently, rates are ranging from2.9-3. One yr. 2008, it was lower then this mean but it was still above 1.8 mm.
In 2011 JPL (US) projected the sea level rise of 32 cm by the year 2050. Scientific evidence support the claim the current sea level is caused by global warming. There may be short term changes (ie 2008) due seasonal variation, astronomical tides or rotational variations. Now everyone should understand the part about the astronomical tides unless bill oreilly is reading this.
If you look beyond this and go to geological data ,average sea level changes have risen at a rate of .1-.2 over the last 3000 years. Seems a little different as of late.
And once again I hear the statement there have been changes before! This is getting old but yes, through catastrophic disasters there have been changes. What happened? The annihilation or near extinction of much of what existed here. Co2 and other greenhouse gases have the propensity to harbor an extraordinary amount of heat per unit. Our atmosphere is warming, our oceans are warming, the land ice is shrinking at an unprecedented rate, the sea level rise is accelerating so I guess it's best to do nothing? Only if you have the life cycle of grasshopper and you don't really care about all your little hoppers left behind.

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synmag,
Your response on commies from swampland? Good one, I hope that was your attempt at levity. But your right. There's nothing like cruisin aroun the bayou, gettin a few gators and maybe a commie or two ta boot. Dats what I'm talkin bout!

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