# Global Warming is to blame???

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fishmahn
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Joined: 12/30/10

Confirming and refining the situation regarding sea level rise (multi-meter by 2100 without steep emission reductions according to James Hansen, remember?): A new study in Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences reconstructs sea level rise on the US Atlantic coast for the past 2,100 years and finds that since the 19th century rates have been higher than at any other point in that time period. What's more, they show a consistent link with changes in global temperatures.

Murdock
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fishmahn Said:
Confirming and refining the situation regarding sea level rise (multi-meter by 2100 without steep emission reductions according to James Hansen, remember?): A new study in Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences reconstructs sea level rise on the US Atlantic coast for the past 2,100 years and finds that since the 19th century rates have been higher than at any other point in that time period. What's more, they show a consistent link with changes in global temperatures.

Is this the same James Hansen??

http://nation.foxnews.com/climate-change/2011/06/22/global-warming-scientist-james-hansen-exposed

cynical
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Joined: 10/27/04

fishmahn Said:
Confirming and refining the situation regarding sea level rise (multi-meter by 2100 without steep emission reductions according to James Hansen, remember?): A new study in Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences reconstructs sea level rise on the US Atlantic coast for the past 2,100 years and finds that since the 19th century rates have been higher than at any other point in that time period. What's more, they show a consistent link with changes in global temperatures.

Is that the best you can do fishmahn?   Why don't you quote your hero Algore?

"The only enemy of guns is rust and politicians."

"The best defense against usurpatory government is an assertive citizenry."

William F. Buckley, Jr.
"Unarmed helplessness is for sheep and the French."  Ted Nugent

"The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it."
-Thomas Jefferson

The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.
-Thomas Jefferson

multi-species-angler
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Joined: 4/26/09

no one argues that the oceans are rising and have risen.  its why they are rising that is up to debate.  just the movement of the continents by just inches per year has an effect on the climate causing "climate change"  Look at estimated temperatures over the last 4.5 billion years and you start to feel pretty comfortable knowing that the last million have been more stable and people friendly than ever.

yes, there will always be sinking and rising islands due to rising & falling sea levels and volcanoes and coral and there will always be climate change (with or without humans) floods, tsunamis, fires, extinctions....welcome to planet earth, you're not that big a deal.

I still ain't buyin a ghey prius

Tacoman
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Joined: 2/13/06

There is one thing to learn from this and that is polar bears aren't your friend.  If you think they are you might end up getting your head bit off...

multi-species-angler
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Joined: 4/26/09

Enslow Said:
There is one thing to learn from this and that is polar bears aren't your friend.  If you think they are you might end up getting your head bit off...

yeah, polar bears eat all the cute cuddly seals and belugas anyway..."go away polar bear, nobody likes you"  When that last polar bear dies there will still be 7 billion people on the planet wondering whats gonna happen on Jersey Shore tonight.

in other words you're fighting a losing battle fishmahn.

eyexer
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Joined: 2/28/07

I know it's fun to expose fishmahn for what he is, a full blown, koolaid drinking agw alarmist.  But this horse is dead.

Hardwaterman
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Joined: 11/6/02

I still ain't buyin a ghey prius

How about a powder blue one????????

In my lifetime I have seen fence row to fence row farming and the return of CRP and game to the landscape.Now we face again the prosepect of fence row to fence row again! Sportsman are our own worst enemy in that we fail to look forward and focus to much on the now!

ND 58201
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Joined: 4/27/04

I hope you losers keep hashing this out while the 99.5% of the rest of us Americans keep living life the way we should. It's really noble work you are doing but in the end it does not mean crap. I have lived as good of a life as my grandfather, as my father, and his grandfather, gloom and doom will certainly come true some day but no one will predict when so just keep on keeping on. I expect my kids to have a better life than I had, and that is asking a lot!

eyexer
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Joined: 2/28/07

southpaw21 Said:
I hope you losers keep hashing this out while the 99.5% of the rest of us Americans keep living life the way we should. It's really noble work you are doing but in the end it does not mean crap. I have lived as good of a life as my grandfather, as my father, and his grandfather, gloom and doom will certainly come true some day but no one will predict when so just keep on keeping on. I expect my kids to have a better life than I had, and that is asking a lot!

pretty true statement.  and if your an honest christian you know this global whatever it's called now days is nothing more than horsepucky.

multi-species-angler
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Hardwaterman Said:

I still ain't buyin a ghey prius

How about a powder blue one????????

no you don't understand...that wasn't a typo or a color....GHEY

Hardwaterman
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multi-species-angler Said:

Hardwaterman Said:

I still ain't buyin a ghey prius

How about a powder blue one????????

no you don't understand...that wasn't a typo or a color....GHEY

NO! I got it! Thus the

In my lifetime I have seen fence row to fence row farming and the return of CRP and game to the landscape.Now we face again the prosepect of fence row to fence row again! Sportsman are our own worst enemy in that we fail to look forward and focus to much on the now!

multi-species-angler
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Joined: 4/26/09

Oh yeah...."wink wink"

scary man
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Joined: 4/23/11

man is not God

free thinker = no thinker

ggenthusiast
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Joined: 9/11/02

Umm, why do we even bother talking about climate change.  Its been happening since the beginning of time, man is a part of nature, so whatever happens is perfectly natural.  If man screws it up so bad that we can't survive, then that the first step in a series of events in which our bones are the fossils for future beings to discover.  Geez.

I say to hell with that pot o' gold.

svnmag
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Joined: 11/3/02

fishmahn,

So who's side would you be on?  The Swampers or the Commies?

Nuke the Whales

fishmahn
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Joined: 12/30/10

Hmmm,. *l* same ole boys been busy I see.   Do any of you really fish or just sit around and watch Fox Fantasy 24/7?
Murdock &Gutshot-So did JH engage in public speaking and profit from it while he was a public employee?  If he did he shouldn't have but  one has to look at the source used (Fox fantasy network) but more importantly the prosecutor here,the same   right wing, nonprofit organization  that is trying to reverse a voter mandated move in Colorado to get more solar and wind power into the state.  A bill is being circulated to make the Non Profit  org. to divulge it's contributors since most of the movement is pro coal, pro oil and pro gas.  Hmmm,..hey guys here's another conspiracy for you to look into.   YOu guys must not have read that previous series of post as this has already been discussed.

Eyexer-You call me an alarmist?  Just quoting facts that are occurring while you sit and forget history,.. just not generally but on a personal level.  So far the only horse that' dead are a few brain cells among a select few posters.  You go on to agree with one that  states that 99.5% of people discussing this are losers.  You seem to forget at one time you announced your approximate tax load.   I really hate to do this, but Barney you're really not one of the big players in this economy so you probably shouldn't throw stones of this type.

Svnmag-I find the swampers quite entertaining for a short period of time.  After that  it's kind of predictable I guess.
AS far as commies,....in case you haven't heard we won the cold war.  You can put your pop gun back in the cabinet and rest easy.

eyexer
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Joined: 2/28/07

fishmahn Said:
Hmmm,. *l* same ole boys been busy I see.   Do any of you really fish or just sit around and watch Fox Fantasy 24/7?
Murdock &Gutshot-So did JH engage in public speaking and profit from it while he was a public employee?  If he did he shouldn't have but  one has to look at the source used (Fox fantasy network) but more importantly the prosecutor here,the same   right wing, nonprofit organization  that is trying to reverse a voter mandated move in Colorado to get more solar and wind power into the state.  A bill is being circulated to make the Non Profit  org. to divulge it's contributors since most of the movement is pro coal, pro oil and pro gas.  Hmmm,..hey guys here's another conspiracy for you to look into.   YOu guys must not have read that previous series of post as this has already been discussed.

Eyexer-You call me an alarmist?  Just quoting facts that are occurring while you sit and forget history,.. just not generally but on a personal level.  So far the only horse that' dead are a few brain cells among a select few posters.  You go on to agree with one that  states that 99.5% of people discussing this are losers.  You seem to forget at one time you announced your approximate tax load.   I really hate to do this, but Barney you're really not one of the big players in this economy so you probably shouldn't throw stones of this type.

Svnmag-I find the swampers quite entertaining for a short period of time.  After that  it's kind of predictable I guess.
AS far as commies,....in case you haven't heard we won the cold war.  You can put your pop gun back in the cabinet and rest easy.

Since your so full of answers, why don't you take all the articles I posted earlier and break down each one and tell us how they are wrong.

Murdock
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cynical
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Joined: 10/27/04

hey fishmahn,   what kind of vehicle do you drive and what kind of heating/cooling system in your home.   Let's see if you walk the walk or just sit back and talk the talk.

"The only enemy of guns is rust and politicians."

"The best defense against usurpatory government is an assertive citizenry."

William F. Buckley, Jr.
"Unarmed helplessness is for sheep and the French."  Ted Nugent

"The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it."
-Thomas Jefferson

The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.
-Thomas Jefferson

eyexer
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Joined: 2/28/07

3XGutshot Said:
hey fishmahn,   what kind of vehicle do you drive and what kind of heating/cooling system in your home.   Let's see if you walk the walk or just sit back and talk the talk.

I think we all know the answer to that.  It's similar to the PETA people screaming "save the animals" while they're wearing leather shoes,lol

BringingTheRain
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Joined: 1/5/10

It's not global warming, it's the corp of engineers......duuuuuh

marauder29
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Joined: 5/24/02

Nothing like looking at 2 points  and calling it a trend.... but I guess global warming was in charge in the late 80's... say 1987ish... in that case put some money on the Twins winning the World Series again.

I worked for a large financial servies company and lived in Manhattan 4 years ago and all of my liberal friends at work decided that we as a group needed to be more informed about Global Warming so they brought in a leading expert from a European Country. Seriously, we paid him thousands of dollars to educate us... but what was not in the pklan was that a small majority in our group were mid-westerners who grew up on the prairies of ND, KS and Iowa... understanding the cycles we have seen through out our lives.

Being statistical experts and consultants we ate him alive with questions about the data and sampling techniques used in his data collection and the interpretations from it. Do I believe that there are too many humans on planet Earth ... probably... but that is less a problem with global warming and more a resource scarcity problem.

For all we know, the magnetic field of the Earth has shifted causing the flows of magma and other liquid core materials to migrate and heat other parts of the Earth's crust... you tell me which is more likely... considering in the Sumatra earth quake that the Earth actually shifted its position on axis... but liberals can keep blaming human intervention... and push social programs to correct it...

eyexer
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marauder29 Said:
Nothing like looking at 2 points  and calling it a trend.... but I guess global warming was in charge in the late 80's... say 1987ish... in that case put some money on the Twins winning the World Series again.

I worked for a large financial servies company and lived in Manhattan 4 years ago and all of my liberal friends at work decided that we as a group needed to be more informed about Global Warming so they brought in a leading expert from a European Country. Seriously, we paid him thousands of dollars to educate us... but what was not in the pklan was that a small majority in our group were mid-westerners who grew up on the prairies of ND, KS and Iowa... understanding the cycles we have seen through out our lives.

Being statistical experts and consultants we ate him alive with questions about the data and sampling techniques used in his data collection and the interpretations from it. Do I believe that there are too many humans on planet Earth ... probably... but that is less a problem with global warming and more a resource scarcity problem.

For all we know, the magnetic field of the Earth has shifted causing the flows of magma and other liquid core materials to migrate and heat other parts of the Earth's crust... you tell me which is more likely... considering in the Sumatra earth quake that the Earth actually shifted its position on axis... but liberals can keep blaming human intervention... and push social programs to correct it...

very good points.  this is why many call liberalism a mental illness.  they feel they just have to make mankind suffer to make themselves feel better.  They want everybody to feel ashamed to use one iota of our natural resources.  and most of them do this while driving down the highway in their gas guzzling SUV's.

fishmahn
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Joined: 12/30/10

I know this is difficult for the desciples of  Fox  silliness  that hang on every word of glen beck, bill oreily nand rush the druggy to accept  but Global Warming is based on facts.  The scientific community that  actually studies weather phenomenon does not dispute these facts.  Right wing pro fossil fuel advocates attempted to  high light a petition  signing by scientists  that have little to do with climatology.  As was stated   "Anyone can have their own opinion but you are not entitled to your own facts."
The data shows the past ten years have been the warmest on record.  The greenhouse effect is real, the more co2 that is present in the upper atmoshpere the hotter it becomes down here.  Denying this cannot undo facts.  Repeating a lie does not make it a fact.  Facts really should trump Fox fueled fairy tales.
Just for the record in response to "skewed fact possibilities"
In 2008 opponents of climate change spent $450 million in the us in lobbying and political contributions to to nay sayers. Seven out of eight climate lobbyists in Washington dispute the need for climate action which amounts to more then 2000 paid deniers. Paid lobbyists in the recent years have increased 300% In 2009 the coal industry spent$45 million \in advertising to deny global warming.
People are presently being hired to flood radio, TV airways with denials, doubt, and confusion concerning global warming.
Political talk shows, internet blogs and corporate commercials are not the place to find facts about climate.
Barney aka eyexer- you mention" thinking for yourself" as a mental  illness?  I believe you also referred to me as an alarmist.   Who was it that upon hearing of Gifford being shot replied,  "Has THE REVOLUTION BEGUN?"  I guess that not an alarmist,...it's just ill.

Db
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Joined: 9/11/09

I came to the conclusion:

Some were hard to follow.
The two of you have more knowledge on this subject than what I have or every will have.
Fishmahn, it's tough out there.

However, 40 years ago a E-7 told me to quit pissing in the ocean.
He stated why, I believed.  I did not tell him about a study that was done.
I did my part by not pissing in the ocean anymore.
And then I had a beer, it was as simple as that and that is all I have to say about that.
db

Db

Hardwaterman
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Joined: 11/6/02

fish people are hired to promoted one cause over another using your reasoning then any law,legislation or course of action that is influenced by a lobbyist is untrue.This means that AGW using your own logic is untrue as well.

You keep avoiding the number one issue and that is the science regarding GW cause is incomplete, the data that you claim is fact is not. It is theory which is not fact nor is a consensus fact. I know you and others like you do not like to hear this, but at one time the science community thought the world flat. The consensus on many fossils has been proven wrong as well. The list goes on and on where consensus have been proven to be incorrect.

There are many gases in the atmosphere which have a much higher reflective nature than CO2 and are more prevalent in concentration levels. These are more likely to be the drivers and CO2 levels the affect. Deforestation keeps getting blamed for rise in CO2 but there are more trees and fauna that absorb CO2 today on land than at almost any time in our recorded history.

To advance your agenda AGW just HAS TO BE TRUE! It just HAS TO!!!!! Otherwise your world view crumbles. For people like myself, I am not a denier of GW, I am a questioner of the data that is pointing the finger at one issue of it as the cause because of the manipulation of data to support it. If the data is so pure then why does it need to be embellished?

In my lifetime I have seen fence row to fence row farming and the return of CRP and game to the landscape.Now we face again the prosepect of fence row to fence row again! Sportsman are our own worst enemy in that we fail to look forward and focus to much on the now!

fishmahn
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Joined: 12/30/10

Hardwaterrman,
Not really understanding your logic right from the start. Seven out of eight lobbyists in regard to climate in Washington are paid to argue against it. Maybe those with the facts are relying on the facts and not someone to spin. I know there are cases of inconsistency on some studies but by and large one has to look at the bigger picture and what is happening overall. One can not dispute there is something happening and the fact that this last decade is the hottest on record.
You mechanism of co2 above also seems unclear. Co2 acts in manner to not allow heat to escape. Other things such as water vapor can influence the picture but after saturation it rains, and the vapor dissipates unlike co2.
Your most interesting statement above involves deforestation. I'd hoped you weren't a Rush man because I've heard him spout this. However in difference to what you stated, the forest and plant communities cover approximately 9% of the earth's surface (30% of total land area) They once covered about 50% of the land area. In the US alone, before the European settlement, forrests covered nearly 1 billion acres. Since the mid 1600's about 300 million acres have been cleared.
Yes at one time many considered the world was flat. It took people of vision, ambition and action to prove differently.

Hardwaterman
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You imply  that anyone who lobby's is corrupt. Thus regardless of the numbers for or against an issue they are doing so with false data or claims. You step into your own trap when you try and use stats as an example of why it is bad that 8 of 10 are wrong, but if 8 of 10 studies are saying AGW is a good thing!

You remind me of a guy I know from WI who actually believes that by the State of WI paying him and the State collecting taxes on his wage that they actually are going to have more money to fund other programs that the state needs.

He simply cannot accept any reality outside of his narrow field of view as being right!

I keep pointing out to you that the current data no matter how weighted to AGW is severely incomplete as to be considered usable to set standards for future consideration. You do not want to address this issue. I do not care if 100% of the data said this, it is still incomplete to make accurate projections.

Let's take the temp records they use. As much as 80% of the data used is made up. By made up I am pointing out that from much of the European and Asian records they have huge gaps in recordings. So what did they do, took a regional average and plugged it in. Now that elevates the overall temp for the region because they admit in the research they did it and why. The data going in was biased toward warming.

Now let's talk about satellite readings and the intentional bumping up of the data by simply taking readings or images when it will show more infrared heat signatures. Time of day is critical in this as well as cloud cover. NASA has been under fire for this and has made many corrections, but those corrections are not being used or shown in the data.

You have to ask why? That is what I am getting at Fish ! I do not take this stuff with blind faith, I actually try and find out how accurate the data is! Summary reports are not always the best thing to use, what is most telling is dissenting analysis of a report, because many of them point out the inconsistent of a test and why they could not duplicate it

Mann's Hockey stick is a prime example, he ran all the data and then cherry picked a start time and then tried to claim the Little Ice Age was simply a regional event which it has been demonstrated to have been a global event.

Then there is the distortion of melting of ice and the affects of the ice melt on sea levels. How many times have we heard that the Arctic ice cap melt is going to raise the sea levels by feet. It is not nor can it. Granted some of the ice melting on land will add new water but floating sea ice will not. Again data being misrepresented! Most of the people who write of this have stated that global sea ice levels have remained pretty constant with declines in the north off set by gains in the south. This change in location is consistent with fossil records and these changes are cyclical.

So back to the point, all and I mean all of the computer projections are run with incomplete data many of them with less than 20% verified data and the rest with data plugged in as a best guess that is influenced with bias.

The fact that I discount this as fact should not surprise anyone nor should anyone accept these as facts with that little actual detail!

So bring on more complete data that is not corrupted with bias and it will garner some serious consideration. Until then your play book of consensus,and attack those who question the credibility for good reason those who have made these claims is going to continue.

In my lifetime I have seen fence row to fence row farming and the return of CRP and game to the landscape.Now we face again the prosepect of fence row to fence row again! Sportsman are our own worst enemy in that we fail to look forward and focus to much on the now!

svnmag
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Joined: 11/3/02

and the hacked e-mails revealing the falisification of "data".  Hee Haw.  They ain't gonna take my "Pappy's shootgun".

Nuke the Whales