Measure 2

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Superfreak's picture
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Allen Said:
Once (if) this measure passes, I say we target the rest of the tax system too.  Propose a "no income tax, no sales tax, no gas tax, and in general a tax-free North Dakota". 

What color of Kool-Aid are you drinking today? I like Grape!

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I was on the fence. Besides all the personal BS, this thread has been a real eye-opener. I have read nearly every page. I was a 'no' just months ago but am now a definate YES.

Our current system is broken and seemingly 'drastic' changes are the only ones that seem to have an impact.

Let the people TRULY own their homes.

******Proudly Voting YES on M2******

 "I'll show you where the bear sh**s in the woods!" ~ Dad
(I still have no clue what it means.)

"You're not really even my son." ~ Dad
(I still don't believe him.)

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Superfreak Said:

Allen Said:
Once (if) this measure passes, I say we target the rest of the tax system too.  Propose a "no income tax, no sales tax, no gas tax, and in general a tax-free North Dakota". 

What color of Kool-Aid are you drinking today? I like Grape!

i too prefer grape btw

 "I'll show you where the bear sh**s in the woods!" ~ Dad
(I still have no clue what it means.)

"You're not really even my son." ~ Dad
(I still don't believe him.)

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Our current system is broken and seemingly 'drastic' changes are the only ones that seem to have an impact.

Let the people TRULY own their homes.

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jsthntn Said:

Let the people TRULY own their homes.

Then you still have to get rid of special assessments and income tax, otherwise you are still paying and if you don't, your home can still be taken.

You can't aim a duck to death.

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Superfreak Said:

Allen Said:
Once (if) this measure passes, I say we target the rest of the tax system too.  Propose a "no income tax, no sales tax, no gas tax, and in general a tax-free North Dakota". 

What color of Kool-Aid are you drinking today? I like Grape!

I agree.  Get rid of those guys who fix the roads, law enforcement, and the works.  Turn this place back into the wild west where only a horse can manage travel and those quickest with their six shooter make the rules. 

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Go ahead an keep your six shooter, I'll be shooting from the window of my house with the long rifle and when in range the Sig with a 13 round clip might come out of the safe, lol.

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Superfreak Said:

Allen Said:
Once (if) this measure passes, I say we target the rest of the tax system too.  Propose a "no income tax, no sales tax, no gas tax, and in general a tax-free North Dakota". 

What color of Kool-Aid are you drinking today? I like Grape!

LOL, your sarcasm detector needs a little tuning. 

“Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it.” ~ Mark Twain

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No I got it, I was just trying to be funny.

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If taxes are the reason some say that they never really "own their homes" then that has to be the absolute dumbest thing I've read on FBO yet.    Paying taxes is part of the community upkeep if you will, for roads, police, and everything else.   Basically doing your duty as a citizen.
As I've said before, we are all against Government waste!  No question there!  But  getting  rrd of property tax will FIX  nothing and claiming it will make true home owning is absurd.   In any civilized country, we all pitch in and do our share.   Want to change our share of community responsibility by stopping wateful programs?  Great!   There's lots of  positive things you can do - GET INVOLVED - don't just go down and vote yourself a temporary little bit of gadget money saved for a year or two until the politicians set another tax up to make up what you now take home.    Won't work a bit!

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bobkat Said:
If taxes are the reason some say that they never really "own their homes" then that has to be the absolute dumbest thing I've read on FBO yet.    Paying taxes is part of the community upkeep if you will, for roads, police, and everything else.   Basically doing your duty as a citizen.
As I've said before, we are all against Government waste!  No question there!  But  getting  rrd of property tax will FIX  nothing and claiming it will make true home owning is absurd.   In any civilized country, we all pitch in and do our share.   Want to change our share of community responsibility by stopping wateful programs?  Great!   There's lots of  positive things you can do - GET INVOLVED - don't just go down and vote yourself a temporary little bit of gadget money saved for a year or two until the politicians set another tax up to make up what you now take home.    Won't work a bit!

And I never agree with bobkat

Neat

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been gone awhile.  well i have to disagree w/ bobkat for the first time in a while.  there is a fundamental difference between property taxes and other taxes... like specials, sales, service fees, etc...

specials are tied to a specific project that provides a specific benefit to the homeowner.  and citizens have the potential to have much more input on specials than property taxes.  and just because the local entity might be able to still levy a special and eventually take your home, doesn't mean the fact that it makes it right w/ property taxes.  someone can take your home in a judgment too.  but, there are all kinds of things that come first before your home and we give you an exemption up to a certain value.  sales taxes are paid based on the more you spend.  poor people dont' spend as much as rich people.  service fees are tied directly to services provided... water, sewer, etc... and can those services can be turned off.  income taxes are based on how much you make and the extremely poor usually don't pay anything in. 

property taxes are a whole different animal... they are tied directly to the value of your home and go up anytime the value goes up and/or you do something to improve the value.  and they are a whole lot more than a special.  and only a small percentage is tied to anything that has anything to do w/ providing a direct service to the payor.  doesn't something like 70% to towards putting kids in school? 

give me a sales tax, a fuel tax for roads, a higher vehicle registration fee for roads, make me pay for my own kids to go to school, impose a higher state income tax for police, fire, etc... collect the money from me any way you want... even if it means i have to pay more in the long run.  just don't put a direct tax on my home w/ a short route to confiscation if i don't pay. 

Born to hunt and fish... Forced to work!

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bobkat Said:
If taxes are the reason some say that they never really "own their homes" then that has to be the absolute dumbest thing I've read on FBO yet.    Paying taxes is part of the community upkeep if you will, for roads, police, and everything else.   Basically doing your duty as a citizen.
As I've said before, we are all against Government waste!  No question there!  But  getting  rrd of property tax will FIX  nothing and claiming it will make true home owning is absurd.   In any civilized country, we all pitch in and do our share.   Want to change our share of community responsibility by stopping wateful programs?  Great!   There's lots of  positive things you can do - GET INVOLVED - don't just go down and vote yourself a temporary little bit of gadget money saved for a year or two until the politicians set another tax up to make up what you now take home.    Won't work a bit!

I don't think most of us argue that we need legitimate government services.  However, we disagree on the manner in which those taxes should be administered/collected.  One side thinks that they can be collected in a way that does not cause them to live in fear.  The other side does not.  One side believes in private property.  The other side does not.

I happen to fall on the side that believes they should be collected in a manner that does not put people's homes/property at risk.  It's a simple fact that if you have to pay someone to keep something, then it is not yours.

I do agree with you about getting involved though.  People should be involved.  And I believe that's what we're doing with Measure 2.  :o)  

More convinced than ever... VOTING "YES" ON MEASURE 2!

-Justin

-Justin

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and imho... get rid of the ability of the government to take your home thru specials too.  but, one thing at a time i guess.  make the failure to pay a class B misdemeanor punishable by up to 30 days in jail.  judge's aren't likely to throw someone in jail if they have a legitimate excuse like i am poor as hell.  if they just refuse to pay, jail time is an option i guess.  at least the the few people who can't afford them, won't end up homeless. 

Born to hunt and fish... Forced to work!

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I forgot what this is about, but it's unanimous, right? A YES vote on number 2

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BringingTheRain Said:
I forgot what this is about, but it's unanimous, right? A YES vote on number 2

nope

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Sooo.... This is shaping up to be the landmark decision of our time in ND.

Is it impious to weigh goose music and art in the same scales? I think not, because the true hunter is merely a noncreative artist. Who painted the first picture on a bone in the caves of France? A hunter. Who alone in our modern life so thrills to the sight of living beauty that he will endure hunger and thirst and cold to feed his eye upon it? The hunter. Who wrote the great hunter's poem about the sheer wonder of the wind, the hail, and the snow, the stars, the lightnings, and the clouds, the lion, the deer, and the wild goat, the raven, the hawk, and the eagle, and above all the eulogy to the horse? Job, one of the great dramatic artists of all time. Poets sing and hunters scale the mountains primarily for one and the same reason--the thrill of beauty. Critics write and hunters outwit their game primarily for one and the same reason--to reduce that beauty to possession. The differences are largely matters of degree, consciousness, and that sly arbiter of the classification of human activities, language. If, then, we can live without goose music, we may as well do away with stars, or sunsets, or Iliads. But the point is we would be fools to do away with any of them. 

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Meelosh Said:
Sooo.... This is shaping up to be the landmark decision of our time in ND.

Could be... I don't want it to pass as written but am well aware that for most people who don't feel strongly one way or the other the "yes" vote is going to be pretty appealing.

I'm still in the no category but I appreciate all the good debate that these threads have created. Even if a person read all these pages and has now decided to vote yes it's better than an uninformed vote IMO

J

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iluvswnd Said:
 

Meelosh Said:
Sooo.... This is shaping up to be the landmark decision of our time in ND.

Could be... I don't want it to pass as written but am well aware that for most people who don't feel strongly one way or the other the "yes" vote is going to be pretty appealing.

I'm still in the no category but I appreciate all the good debate that these threads have created. Even if a person read all these pages and has now decided to vote yes it's better than an uninformed vote IMO

Both sides make very compelling arguments. I am still not swayed either way.

Is it impious to weigh goose music and art in the same scales? I think not, because the true hunter is merely a noncreative artist. Who painted the first picture on a bone in the caves of France? A hunter. Who alone in our modern life so thrills to the sight of living beauty that he will endure hunger and thirst and cold to feed his eye upon it? The hunter. Who wrote the great hunter's poem about the sheer wonder of the wind, the hail, and the snow, the stars, the lightnings, and the clouds, the lion, the deer, and the wild goat, the raven, the hawk, and the eagle, and above all the eulogy to the horse? Job, one of the great dramatic artists of all time. Poets sing and hunters scale the mountains primarily for one and the same reason--the thrill of beauty. Critics write and hunters outwit their game primarily for one and the same reason--to reduce that beauty to possession. The differences are largely matters of degree, consciousness, and that sly arbiter of the classification of human activities, language. If, then, we can live without goose music, we may as well do away with stars, or sunsets, or Iliads. But the point is we would be fools to do away with any of them. 

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Neat

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Neat

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I sure hope it passes.

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I am voting yes for the simple reason that the local taxing authorities out west have found themselves a cash cow.  The house valueations are going up  15-25% per year.  Yet the taxing authorities are not lowering the mil levy: i.e. RE taxes are going up 15-25% each year.  How many people can keep withstanding such an increase without hurting.  Not everyone is working in the oil patch!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Vote yes for those of us living out west and not employed in the oil patch.

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