measure 5 phone call

just got a call from steve adair and now im on a live conference with a measure five meeting?  whats the deal?

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We know the 13 member panel giving proposals to the Inustrial Commision is going to be stacked and some years down the road what if the Industrial Commision becomes so also.........this thing is going to become a run away.

That needs a little interpretation.  What it means is it has always been stacked to favor the things Fritz and gst like.  Down the road hunters and other outdoor enthusiasts could see a dozen years stacked in their favor for a change.  Oh horrors. 

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We know the 13 member panel giving proposals to the Inustrial Commision is going to be stacked and some years down the road what if the Industrial Commision becomes so also.........this thing is going to become a run away.

That needs a little interpretation.  What it means is it has always been stacked to favor the things Fritz and gst like.  Down the road hunters and other outdoor enthusiasts could see a dozen years stacked in their favor for a change.  Oh horrors. 

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Ladd Said:
 Gst - Your wrong...I am out.......

ladd, I find it odd that this concern has been brought up numerous times in various public forums and the sponsors and supporters have never yet denied it as you do here today.
 
Perhaps you need to read the entire text of the measure as it will be engrossed into our constitution.
 
http://www.cleanwaterwildlifeparks.org/amendment-text

As you do, please note the sections I will copy here.

3. There is created a clean water, wildlife and parks commission that shall be comprised of the governor, attorney general and agriculture commissioner. The commission shall govern the fund in accord with this section. Any money deposited in the clean water, wildlife, and parks fund is hereby appropriated to the commission on a continuing basis for expenditure upon those programs selected by the commission as provided in this section. The commission shall keep accurate records of all financial transactions performed under this section.

4. The commission may employ staff and enter into public and private contracts as may be necessary to operate the fund. The salaries of employees and other expenditures for the operation of the fund must be paid out of the fund. No more than three percent of the funds available in a given year may be paid out of the fund to operate the fund.

5. The commission must allocate no less than seventy-five percent nor more than ninety percent of the revenue deposited in the fund on an annual basis. Ten percent of earnings of the fund shall be reserved and transferred on an annual basis to the trust established in this section

ladd please note the underlined emboldened part of sec. 3 where it states these funds must be governed in accordance with "this section". Please show in "this section" where it states the IC can choose not to fund a program if it falls under the 75% mandated allocation that is mentioned in sec. 5.

Please show where the IC can put whatever funds they choose into an account with the state treasurer as it is written "in this section".

 


Ladd Said:
 You're reading things into that that don't exist.    Nothing in the measure mandates any land purchases or precludes the legislature from limiting them.   That provision removes 75% - 90% from trust protection so it can be spent.  The IC still decides if it will be spent.  If it is not spent then it will be kept in an account at the State Treasures office.

Perhaps you are confused with the language describing what the State Treasurers office can do with the earnings of the trust that can be placed back into the kitty of which 75% mandated funding exists.
 
7. The principal and earnings of the trust may not be expended until after January 1, 2019, and an expenditure of principal after that date requires a vote of at least two-thirds of the members elected to each house of the legislative assembly. The state investment board shall invest the principal of the trust. The state treasurer shall transfer earnings of the trust accruing after January 1, 2019, to the fund established in this section at the end of each fiscal year.

Instead of making a decree and taking your ball and going home.please provide some actual documented information to show your claim is correct if you would.
 
Words mean something and it seems these mean the IC is mandated to spend 75% of what is deposited into this account regardless of the programs or be in violation of our states constitution.

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Ladd Said:
 You're reading things into that that don't exist.    Nothing in the measure mandates any land purchases or precludes the legislature from limiting them.   That provision removes 75% - 90% from trust protection so it can be spent.  The IC still decides if it will be spent.  If it is not spent then it will be kept in an account at the State Treasures office.

The one emboldened word in your statement makes it simply not true lad.

No one has said anything in this measure "mandates land purchases" so that claim is wrong.

read all 3 sections ladd, the "fund" is what the monies to be spent on programs is called.

3. There is created a clean water, wildlife and parks commission that shall be comprised of the governor, attorney general and agriculture commissioner. The commission shall govern the fund in accord with this section. Any money deposited in the clean water, wildlife, and parks fund is hereby appropriated to the commission on a continuing basis for expenditure upon those programs selected by the commission as provided in this section. The commission shall keep accurate records of all financial transactions performed under this section

Section 3 states these "funds" must spent/"expenditure"  every year (on a continuing basis) they can not rat hole them away into some account because the IC chooses not to spend them.

5. The commission must allocate no less than seventy-five percent nor more than ninety percent of the revenue deposited in the fund on an annual basis. Ten percent of earnings of the fund shall be reserved and transferred on an annual basis to the trust established in this section

Section 5 states that no less than 75% of these funds have to be "allocated" for "expenditure" on what programs are sent to the IC to "select" from the 13 member panel every year ("annual basis") .

Once again reitterating the IC can not simply "decide"  whether to spend these funds or not and deposit them in some account as you claim

So in one year if 65% of the funding is taken up by new parks, CRP hunter programs ect.....and the remainder of the expenditures submitted by the 13 member panel are for land purchases, how can the IC not "appropriate " those dollars for "expenditure" and rat hole them away for a later time or program without being in violation of the constitution?

Because of the first failed attempt as a result  of fraud, the people that wrote this measure had 3 years to plan how to write it to get what they wanted ladd.

And what they wanted was to buy land. That is one of 3 major differences between this measure and the OHF. The other is enough monies to buy land and a panel that would allow it.

Words mean something.

Numbers don't lie.

 

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Ladd I think it should be looked into if your accidentally run over by an unmarked John Deer.

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I have said all along, I believe the voters should be told the facts about the issues they are asked to vote on.

So what has been asked here is that if ladd can provide some document showing what he says as factual outside of what the measure itself seems to state, I would like to see it, and I am sure other voters would as well.

Hardly worth a hit and run.


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gst you being part of a special interest group and coming on and outdoor site to derail any conservation efforts is a hit and run. 

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Plainsman Said:

gst you being part of a special interest group and coming on and outdoor site to derail any conservation efforts is a hit and run. 

Why you gotta be like that bro?

Bruce, I have likely spent as much time in the field hunting and fishing as you have and you got a decade on me.

you have likely spent less time and your dollars actually implementing "conservation" practices than I and you have a decade on me.

So why not drop the rhetoric for once bruce?

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 holy sh7t that made me laugh!  

gst Said:

Why you gotta be like that bro?

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Bruce, I have likely spent as much time in the field hunting and fishing as you have and you got a decade on me.

That could be gst, but it's hard to imagine.  When I was younger I lived and breathed hunting.  In winter I was on skis after fox, in spring a canoe after beaver, in fall --- well anything with fur or feathers.   I guess that's why I went into wildlife biology.

you have likely spent less time and your dollars actually implementing "conservation" practices than I and you have a decade on me.

Sounds like you want a big something or other contest.  I don't want to jump to conclusions, but my guess is:  You would be surprised at the thousands of hours in 36.5 years that I claimed no overtime or comp time.  Also those 36.5 years were spent developing how to implement conservation practices.  I went to work an hour early every day.  Considering that's one more hour every day for 36.5 years hmmm, I never have figured it out.  I could always plan better when it was quite and no one around.  On the other hand I think all those dollars you spent were NRCS dollars. 

So I guess that tells everyone why I am for conservation and you are against it.    You support every bad ag practice and oppose every conservation effort that I can remember on nodak and fishingbuddy.   Tell your myths to someone who will believe it. 

I'm always amused how it turns to chest thumping for you.   

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Don't forget that the major proponents of Measure 5 are non-profit groups that are not required to pay (property) taxes.  What could happen to your property taxes if this measure passes and land in your county is bought so you have a closer place to hunt but that land is taken off of the tax rolls? 

Steve.

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For those concerned about losing local tax revenue, just look at the NDGF expenditure for land owned by them. You will find taxes paid just as they will be!!

In my lifetime I have seen fence row to fence row farming and the return of CRP and game to the landscape.Now we face again the prosepect of fence row to fence row again! Sportsman are our own worst enemy in that we fail to look forward and focus to much on the now!

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I have always looked at the taxes this way.  When a non profit or for that matter a government agency pays local taxes it's an extremely good deal. 

Here is why:  What are those taxes for?
They pay for road maintenance.  However, no on lives on that land and there is no need for road maintenance.
It pays for schools.  No one lives on that land and there are no kids to be educated.
It pays for fire protection of home, barn, outbuildings etc.  However again there is no one living on there, there is no home, no barn, no outbuildings etc.

So everyone else in the township and county who have kids, roads, homes are getting something for nothing.  Then those same people will complain about welfare people living off them. 

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If you've spent so much time afield, why dont you ever post on hunting/fishing related topics? Tips, tactics, guns, gear, etc. You surely must have a wealth of knowledge to share. 

gst Said:

Plainsman Said:

gst you being part of a special interest group and coming on and outdoor site to derail any conservation efforts is a hit and run. 

Why you gotta be like that bro?

Bruce, I have likely spent as much time in the field hunting and fishing as you have and you got a decade on me.

you have likely spent less time and your dollars actually implementing "conservation" practices than I and you have a decade on me.

So why not drop the rhetoric for once bruce?

 

 "I get what you're saying:  Like a sausage replica featuring a Polander holding a sacred illumination device." 

 

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Plainsman Said:

Bruce, I have likely spent as much time in the field hunting and fishing as you have and you got a decade on me.

That could be gst, but it's hard to imagine.  When I was younger I lived and breathed hunting.  In winter I was on skis after fox, in spring a canoe after beaver, in fall --- well anything with fur or feathers.   I guess that's why I went into wildlife biology.

you have likely spent less time and your dollars actually implementing "conservation" practices than I and you have a decade on me.

Sounds like you want a big something or other contest.  I don't want to jump to conclusions, but my guess is:  You would be surprised at the thousands of hours in 36.5 years that I claimed no overtime or comp time.  Also those 36.5 years were spent developing how to implement conservation practices.  I went to work an hour early every day.  Considering that's one more hour every day for 36.5 years hmmm, I never have figured it out.  I could always plan better when it was quite and no one around.  On the other hand I think all those dollars you spent were NRCS dollars. 

So I guess that tells everyone why I am for conservation and you are against it.    You support every bad ag practice and oppose every conservation effort that I can remember on nodak and fishingbuddy.   Tell your myths to someone who will believe it. 

I'm always amused how it turns to chest thumping for you.   

Bruce, what it comes down to is you worked for the govt, you know those guys that start off with "Hi I'm from the govt and I'm here to help".

It comes down to how much you have actually spent out of your own pockets to create habitat.

Indeed most people know there is a NRCS cost share to lots of programs, but often times that only picks up 50% of the total cost. But then you knew that and are simply spouting off a bit more rhetoric.

There is a difference between "chest thujmping" and trying to point out someones lies like the ones I have emboldened plainsman.

Anyways, how about trying to discuss the measure and it's language factually. The voters deserve that instead of the usual tired old banter between us don;t they Bruce?

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Also just heard that they are expecting the 5% revenue from the oil to bring in $260 million between 2015-2017 (Hope i got the years right). now if you take the 3% of that money set aside for the committee that would be in charge of this, they would roughly be splitting $7.8 million over those 3 years between all 11 (or 13 of then can't remember how many are on the committee) of them. A select few will be getting a nice chunk of change. 

Someone else had posted earlier why can't this 5 percent of oil revenue be put into CUPor PlOTS. Guessing cause no one will get a nice piece of the pie. Total BS but someone always needs their cut of state or federal monies.


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Join the BAA (Bowfishing Association of America)
www.bowfishingassociation.com

 

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Hardwaterman Said:
For those concerned about losing local tax revenue, just look at the NDGF expenditure for land owned by them. You will find taxes paid just as they will be!!

Ron who is the primary funder behind this measure? The Nature Conservancy unless that has changed from earlier SOS reports.

Here is a little history on TNC from other states they own land in.

http://tncscandals.blogspot.com/

Wednesday, May 6, 2009

TNC sparks tax battle in Wisconsin

 

The Nature Conservancy notified Sauk County Wisconsin officials that the organization would no longer be paying taxes on 9,000 acres located in several parcels. TNC also announced that it was eliminating two local jobs due to financial difficulties. The change will be devastating to some local towns. An official for one of the towns affected said they would lose more than 50% of their tax revenue used to provide municipal services. The Nature Conservancy proposes making voluntary payments totaling about half of the former tax bill to help make up for the shortfall.
Other than the federal government, The Nature Conservancy is the only landowner with property in all 50 states that is exempt from income taxes and can also stipulate that it will not pay local property taxes. One of the Wisconsin municipal officials is quoted as saying "When they purchased that property, they said they were going to be good residents of the municipalities and they were going to pay property taxes," said supervisor Paul Endres of North Freedom. "If they aren't going to pay property taxes, they should sell the property."
According to the most recent financial filings, The Nature Conservancy had 1.4 billion in revenue and only $900 million in expenses. As a tax-exempt entity, the $500 million net revenue is also exempt from income tax.

Friday, January 16, 2009

Paniced municipalities blame The Nature Conservancy

 

Only hours after The Nature Conservancy announced that it is reacting to property tax increases by refusing to pay them, local governments are responding by warning of the coming financial problems within their communities. Municipal governments pay for schools, roads and local services through property taxes. In some municipalities The Nature Conservancy is both the largest landowner and the largest taxpayer. If they don't pay their fair share, the community can be financially devastated.

The Nature Conservancy is the world's largest real estate broker with earned revenues and cash reserves that exceed the amounts of most of the nation's largest for-profit businesses. There is no doubt that The Nature Conservancy could afford to pay its tax bill. Municipal governments do not have the legal authority to force The Nature Conservancy to pay taxes on property it owns so some people are now calling for federal legislation to force The Nature Conservancy to pay.

When private citizens and for-profit companies do not pay their real estate tax bill, the property can be seized and sold at auction in a process known as a "tax sale". This procedure does not currently apply to non-profit corporations like The Nature Conservancy. We support proposed federal legislation that would extend the same procedures to land owned by The Nature Conservancy.

http://www.wiscnews.com/spe/news/432892

Thursday, January 15, 2009

The Nature Conservancy cuts local WI school revenues

 

The Nature Conservancy announced that it will stop paying taxes on the land it owns in some rural communities- taxes that local government use to fund schools, roads and other critical local services.

Rural communities that are locates in areas where The nature Conservancy is the largest landowner know that they cannot financially survive without TNCs support, so this could be the beginning of the end of these communities. We suppose that after some years of struggle these communities will deteriorate financially, people will move out, foreclosures will increase, and property values will fall.

But have no fear, once the communities start to look like ghost towns then The Nature Conservancy will be there to buy up the remaining properties from the former residents for at pennies on the former dollar value and then sell this land back to the state's taxpayers at a big profit.

http://www.wiscnews.com/bnr/news/432811

The Nature Conservancy Criticized in Montana Meetings

 

Montana residents criticized The Nature Conservancy when it attempted to drum up public support while continuing to hold closed door meetings on the 320,000 acre Plum Creek project. If completed it would be the largest conservation land deal in the U.S.

This effort is a delicate line for The Nature Conservancy. They want and need public support to continue funding all of their land deals, but if the financial details of a project were made public, then the outcry might be so strong as to crush the deal.

The Nature Conservancy is the nation's largest land broker and they have professional resources that could make our heads spin. The Nature Conservancy is seeking $250 million tax dollars and $260 million in private donations for this project alone. Profits to The Nature Conservancy on the deal were not disclosed. One neighbor said "If it seems like too good of a deal, it might not be. Be careful. Be vigilant.” Another simply said “I think we all smell a rat”.

http://www.missoulian.com/articles/2008/08/01/news/mtregional/news07.txt


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Steve.

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Plainsman said:

On the other hand I think all those dollars you spent were NRCS dollars. 

GST said:

trying to point out someones lies like the ones I have emboldened plainsman.

So now thinking is the same as lying?  Your a piece of work gst.  I'm a bit of a bs-er myself, but it's something watching a professional such as yourself.

Plainsman also said:

You support every bad ag practice and oppose every conservation effort that I can remember on nodak and fishingbuddy.

Anyone can look at your posts gst.  Drain, tile, etc your all for it.  Conservation?  There is always a reason you think it's bad. 

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Something is holding up editing so I have a few things for you fellow hunters to think about.

Who is always posting information for the next DU banquet?  Who names DU, Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation, Pheasants Forever, Nature Conservancy,  and all the other conservation organizations as the enemy?  Two people always do that, and I am sure I am not the only person who notices.  On a site that is mostly hunters the very organizations we promote are being attacked as the enemy.  Who is the real enemy of our sport?

We are being rode herd on by special interests guys.

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Wags86 Said:
If you've spent so much time afield, why dont you ever post on hunting/fishing related topics? Tips, tactics, guns, gear, etc. You surely must have a wealth of knowledge to share. 

gst Said:

Plainsman Said:

gst you being part of a special interest group and coming on and outdoor site to derail any conservation efforts is a hit and run. 

Why you gotta be like that bro?

Bruce, I have likely spent as much time in the field hunting and fishing as you have and you got a decade on me.

you have likely spent less time and your dollars actually implementing "conservation" practices than I and you have a decade on me.

So why not drop the rhetoric for once bruce?

Wags I have explained before, I have friends that I call if I have questions on long range shooting, trap shooting, decoying, snaring, trapping, ect.....  I have friends that I talk to about virtually every hunting or fishing question I would have that know far more than me. I have on occassion asked questions on here and gotten some good  answers.

Tips? Outside of a few PM's no one has asked me directly. I'm not one to push my "tips" reagrding hunting or fishing onto people I really don;t know.

Pics, don;t know how to down load them and post them. Had to ask guys on here I think 3 times just how to embed a video. The few pics on another computer site were done by my kid.

I was like alot of people checked out the site primarily for pics of big deer for a few years. Then started reading some of the anti agriculture crap that simply was not true (primarily over on Nodak) and decided to chime in.

Like agriculture or hate it, that's fine, lie about it and I will show it to be a lie.

The last 15 years or so it really hasn;t been about what I have hunted or fished, it has been about my kids and sharing with them the passions and "tips" I have .
 
I havent' shot a "good" deer in probably 4 or 5 years, but the boys have had some great hunts and knocked over a couple of good ones. My daughter is just getting old enough to hunt serious but I can show you some pretty nice sheds she and I and her Mom have found over the last few years.

I am just a little more private than some when it comes to hunting and fishing. Have a few p&y and have never entered any of them and have no desire to. Never used to take deer to contests until the boys wanted me too.

If you are ever up in Antler, let me know and I'll buy you a beer, show you some of the deer and other stuff we have shot, sheds we have found talk all the hunting and fishing you can handle. By the end of the bottle of Crown Reserve you would likely understand my interest and passion in hunting, fishing and conservation.

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Plainsman Said:
Plainsman said:

On the other hand I think all those dollars you spent were NRCS dollars. 

GST said:

trying to point out someones lies like the ones I have emboldened plainsman.

So now thinking is the same as lying?  Your a piece of work gst.  I'm a bit of a bs-er myself, but it's something watching a professional such as yourself.

Plainsman also said:

You support every bad ag practice and oppose every conservation effort that I can remember on nodak and fishingbuddy.

Anyone can look at your posts gst.  Drain, tile, etc your all for it.  Conservation?  There is always a reason you think it's bad. 

plaisnamn if you had not just been told a few days ago about the NRCS cost share programs when you made this same accusation in another thread it might have measured up to "thinking" instead of a lie status.

If you are becoming that senile you do not remember that perhaps you should just stop posting crap.

Keep attacking the messenger bruce, most people realize at that point it is becasue you can not attack the message with any facts.

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This thread started out as measure five phone call.

I wish Ladd hadn't lit out of here because I have some questions. I believe he is a District Attorney or a States Attorney?????

This phone call may have been a ROBO call and may have been illegal. 

Credibility. 

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Governor's press release yesterday 9/29/2014 concerning measure 5.

Governor Jack Dalrymple proposes an alternative plan to a conservation measure on the November ballot.

There are eight measures on this year's November Ballot and Initiated Constitutional Measure Number 5 has gotten the attention of some of the state's top officials including the Governor.

The fifth measure on North Dakota's November ballot is designed to set up conservation funding using the state's oil tax money.

And, it's being supported by local wildlife groups including Ducks Unlimited Great Plains Region.

"Measure 5 is a really great opportunity for us to invest into our great quality of life in North Dakota. We can do something to protect our clean water, to protect our communities and private land owners from flooding by improving natural flood control," Ducks Unlimited Great Plains Region Director of Public Policy Carmen Miller.

If the measure is approved by the voters it would constitutionally mandate five percent of oil extraction tax revenue to be allocated for conservation projects.

While some voters have taken issue with the constitutional mandate, Miller disagrees.

"You know the constitution is a reflection of our values and clean water certainly rises to that level," says Miller.

But, Governor Dalrymple says he doesn't believe a constitutional measure is needed to address the issue.

On Monday he announced his own 80.4 million dollar plan for the 2015 to 2017 biennium.

"While calling for 30.4 million in state park improvements, I will also propose increasing the commitment to the North Dakota Outdoor Heritage fund to 50 million dollars for the upcoming biennium," says Dalrymple.

The proposal includes investments in Lake Sakakawea State Park as well as a Missouri River Day Park in South Bismarck.

"This is the plan and this is the approach that I feel is the right way to go in enhancing conservation and outdoor recreation in North Dakota," says Governor Dalrymple.

Miller says she's glad to hear the Governor address conservation in the state.

"It looks like the Governor's validating what we've been talking about for three years. So we're thrilled to see that conversation's happening and we're thrilled to see these issues are getting that attention," says Miller.

If voters say yes to Measure 5 the Governor says the state's executive branch will make it a "workable plan."

But he says he believes his plan is better.

So for now, it's up to the voters to decide.

GEEZ LOUISE..............the Governor does a press release yesterday 9/29/2014 and the media turns it into the Carmen Miller story. Dalrymple needed to come out strong and this is what happens when you pull your punches.

And then there is this statement:
 

If voters say yes to Measure 5 the Governor says the state's executive branch will make it a "workable plan."

 

Does anyone believe by extending an olive branch early, just in case the conservation boyz win, that they will be cooperative later?

What is the difference between the conservation boyz and a terrorist?

You can negociate with a terrorist.

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RSL Said:
Don't forget that the major proponents of Measure 5 are non-profit groups that are not required to pay (property) taxes.  What could happen to your property taxes if this measure passes and land in your county is bought so you have a closer place to hunt but that land is taken off of the tax rolls? 

non profits pay property taxes

 

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Fritz the Cat Said:

Governor's press release yesterday 9/29/2014 concerning measure 5.

Governor Jack Dalrymple proposes an alternative plan to a conservation measure on the November ballot.

There are eight measures on this year's November Ballot and Initiated Constitutional Measure Number 5 has gotten the attention of some of the state's top officials including the Governor.

The fifth measure on North Dakota's November ballot is designed to set up conservation funding using the state's oil tax money.

And, it's being supported by local wildlife groups including Ducks Unlimited Great Plains Region.

"Measure 5 is a really great opportunity for us to invest into our great quality of life in North Dakota. We can do something to protect our clean water, to protect our communities and private land owners from flooding by improving natural flood control," Ducks Unlimited Great Plains Region Director of Public Policy Carmen Miller.

If the measure is approved by the voters it would constitutionally mandate five percent of oil extraction tax revenue to be allocated for conservation projects.

While some voters have taken issue with the constitutional mandate, Miller disagrees.

"You know the constitution is a reflection of our values and clean water certainly rises to that level," says Miller.

But, Governor Dalrymple says he doesn't believe a constitutional measure is needed to address the issue.

On Monday he announced his own 80.4 million dollar plan for the 2015 to 2017 biennium.

"While calling for 30.4 million in state park improvements, I will also propose increasing the commitment to the North Dakota Outdoor Heritage fund to 50 million dollars for the upcoming biennium," says Dalrymple.

The proposal includes investments in Lake Sakakawea State Park as well as a Missouri River Day Park in South Bismarck.

"This is the plan and this is the approach that I feel is the right way to go in enhancing conservation and outdoor recreation in North Dakota," says Governor Dalrymple.

Miller says she's glad to hear the Governor address conservation in the state.

"It looks like the Governor's validating what we've been talking about for three years. So we're thrilled to see that conversation's happening and we're thrilled to see these issues are getting that attention," says Miller.

If voters say yes to Measure 5 the Governor says the state's executive branch will make it a "workable plan."

But he says he believes his plan is better.

So for now, it's up to the voters to decide.

GEEZ LOUISE..............the Governor does a press release yesterday 9/29/2014 and the media turns it into the Carmen Miller story. Dalrymple needed to come out strong and this is what happens when you pull your punches.

And then there is this statement:
 

If voters say yes to Measure 5 the Governor says the state's executive branch will make it a "workable plan."

 

Does anyone believe by extending an olive branch early, just in case the conservation boyz win, that they will be cooperative later?

What is the difference between the conservation boyz and a terrorist?

You can negociate with a terrorist.

Classic.  Don't do anything until your in fear of loosing control.  Now Dalrymple wants to help.  Where the hell was he three or four years ago.  This is exactly what they did with property taxes.  I guess we just have to keep bringing inititated measures to the voters to steer the legislature where we need them to go. 

 

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eyexer Said:

Fritz the Cat Said:

Governor's press release yesterday 9/29/2014 concerning measure 5.

Governor Jack Dalrymple proposes an alternative plan to a conservation measure on the November ballot.

There are eight measures on this year's November Ballot and Initiated Constitutional Measure Number 5 has gotten the attention of some of the state's top officials including the Governor.

The fifth measure on North Dakota's November ballot is designed to set up conservation funding using the state's oil tax money.

And, it's being supported by local wildlife groups including Ducks Unlimited Great Plains Region.

"Measure 5 is a really great opportunity for us to invest into our great quality of life in North Dakota. We can do something to protect our clean water, to protect our communities and private land owners from flooding by improving natural flood control," Ducks Unlimited Great Plains Region Director of Public Policy Carmen Miller.

If the measure is approved by the voters it would constitutionally mandate five percent of oil extraction tax revenue to be allocated for conservation projects.

While some voters have taken issue with the constitutional mandate, Miller disagrees.

"You know the constitution is a reflection of our values and clean water certainly rises to that level," says Miller.

But, Governor Dalrymple says he doesn't believe a constitutional measure is needed to address the issue.

On Monday he announced his own 80.4 million dollar plan for the 2015 to 2017 biennium.

"While calling for 30.4 million in state park improvements, I will also propose increasing the commitment to the North Dakota Outdoor Heritage fund to 50 million dollars for the upcoming biennium," says Dalrymple.

The proposal includes investments in Lake Sakakawea State Park as well as a Missouri River Day Park in South Bismarck.

"This is the plan and this is the approach that I feel is the right way to go in enhancing conservation and outdoor recreation in North Dakota," says Governor Dalrymple.

Miller says she's glad to hear the Governor address conservation in the state.

"It looks like the Governor's validating what we've been talking about for three years. So we're thrilled to see that conversation's happening and we're thrilled to see these issues are getting that attention," says Miller.

If voters say yes to Measure 5 the Governor says the state's executive branch will make it a "workable plan."

But he says he believes his plan is better.

So for now, it's up to the voters to decide.

GEEZ LOUISE..............the Governor does a press release yesterday 9/29/2014 and the media turns it into the Carmen Miller story. Dalrymple needed to come out strong and this is what happens when you pull your punches.

And then there is this statement:
 

If voters say yes to Measure 5 the Governor says the state's executive branch will make it a "workable plan."

 

Does anyone believe by extending an olive branch early, just in case the conservation boyz win, that they will be cooperative later?

What is the difference between the conservation boyz and a terrorist?

You can negociate with a terrorist.

Classic.  Don't do anything until your in fear of loosing control.  Now Dalrymple wants to help.  Where the hell was he three or four years ago.  This is exactly what they did with property taxes.  I guess we just have to keep bringing inititated measures to the voters to steer the legislature where we need them to go. 

BS................the OHF was created in the last legislature with the idea of implementing the program and as it matured more funding could be added which is exactly what's happening. A "group" has now decided to go their own route and want to spend like drunken sailors. The OHF is the correct way to handle this and I hope the majority can see that.

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Wags86
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 fair enough

gst Said:

Wags86 Said:
If you've spent so much time afield, why dont you ever post on hunting/fishing related topics? Tips, tactics, guns, gear, etc. You surely must have a wealth of knowledge to share. 

gst Said:

Plainsman Said:

gst you being part of a special interest group and coming on and outdoor site to derail any conservation efforts is a hit and run. 

Why you gotta be like that bro?

Bruce, I have likely spent as much time in the field hunting and fishing as you have and you got a decade on me.

you have likely spent less time and your dollars actually implementing "conservation" practices than I and you have a decade on me.

So why not drop the rhetoric for once bruce?

Wags I have explained before, I have friends that I call if I have questions on long range shooting, trap shooting, decoying, snaring, trapping, ect.....  I have friends that I talk to about virtually every hunting or fishing question I would have that know far more than me. I have on occassion asked questions on here and gotten some good  answers.

Tips? Outside of a few PM's no one has asked me directly. I'm not one to push my "tips" reagrding hunting or fishing onto people I really don;t know.

Pics, don;t know how to down load them and post them. Had to ask guys on here I think 3 times just how to embed a video. The few pics on another computer site were done by my kid.

I was like alot of people checked out the site primarily for pics of big deer for a few years. Then started reading some of the anti agriculture crap that simply was not true (primarily over on Nodak) and decided to chime in.

Like agriculture or hate it, that's fine, lie about it and I will show it to be a lie.

The last 15 years or so it really hasn;t been about what I have hunted or fished, it has been about my kids and sharing with them the passions and "tips" I have .
 
I havent' shot a "good" deer in probably 4 or 5 years, but the boys have had some great hunts and knocked over a couple of good ones. My daughter is just getting old enough to hunt serious but I can show you some pretty nice sheds she and I and her Mom have found over the last few years.

I am just a little more private than some when it comes to hunting and fishing. Have a few p&y and have never entered any of them and have no desire to. Never used to take deer to contests until the boys wanted me too.

If you are ever up in Antler, let me know and I'll buy you a beer, show you some of the deer and other stuff we have shot, sheds we have found talk all the hunting and fishing you can handle. By the end of the bottle of Crown Reserve you would likely understand my interest and passion in hunting, fishing and conservation.

 

 "I get what you're saying:  Like a sausage replica featuring a Polander holding a sacred illumination device." 

 

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Gov. Jack Dalrymple unveiled a budget proposal Monday that would nearly triple investments in statewide conservation and state parks during the 2015-17 biennium.

bismarcktribune.com/news/state-and-regional/gov-s-m-parks-proposal-unveiled/article_334dbf3a-485c-11e4-abcc-8709a1643169.html


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tshort Said:

eyexer Said:

Fritz the Cat Said:

Governor's press release yesterday 9/29/2014 concerning measure 5.

Governor Jack Dalrymple proposes an alternative plan to a conservation measure on the November ballot.

There are eight measures on this year's November Ballot and Initiated Constitutional Measure Number 5 has gotten the attention of some of the state's top officials including the Governor.

The fifth measure on North Dakota's November ballot is designed to set up conservation funding using the state's oil tax money.

And, it's being supported by local wildlife groups including Ducks Unlimited Great Plains Region.

"Measure 5 is a really great opportunity for us to invest into our great quality of life in North Dakota. We can do something to protect our clean water, to protect our communities and private land owners from flooding by improving natural flood control," Ducks Unlimited Great Plains Region Director of Public Policy Carmen Miller.

If the measure is approved by the voters it would constitutionally mandate five percent of oil extraction tax revenue to be allocated for conservation projects.

While some voters have taken issue with the constitutional mandate, Miller disagrees.

"You know the constitution is a reflection of our values and clean water certainly rises to that level," says Miller.

But, Governor Dalrymple says he doesn't believe a constitutional measure is needed to address the issue.

On Monday he announced his own 80.4 million dollar plan for the 2015 to 2017 biennium.

"While calling for 30.4 million in state park improvements, I will also propose increasing the commitment to the North Dakota Outdoor Heritage fund to 50 million dollars for the upcoming biennium," says Dalrymple.

The proposal includes investments in Lake Sakakawea State Park as well as a Missouri River Day Park in South Bismarck.

"This is the plan and this is the approach that I feel is the right way to go in enhancing conservation and outdoor recreation in North Dakota," says Governor Dalrymple.

Miller says she's glad to hear the Governor address conservation in the state.

"It looks like the Governor's validating what we've been talking about for three years. So we're thrilled to see that conversation's happening and we're thrilled to see these issues are getting that attention," says Miller.

If voters say yes to Measure 5 the Governor says the state's executive branch will make it a "workable plan."

But he says he believes his plan is better.

So for now, it's up to the voters to decide.

GEEZ LOUISE..............the Governor does a press release yesterday 9/29/2014 and the media turns it into the Carmen Miller story. Dalrymple needed to come out strong and this is what happens when you pull your punches.

And then there is this statement:
 

If voters say yes to Measure 5 the Governor says the state's executive branch will make it a "workable plan."

 

Does anyone believe by extending an olive branch early, just in case the conservation boyz win, that they will be cooperative later?

What is the difference between the conservation boyz and a terrorist?

You can negociate with a terrorist.

Classic.  Don't do anything until your in fear of loosing control.  Now Dalrymple wants to help.  Where the hell was he three or four years ago.  This is exactly what they did with property taxes.  I guess we just have to keep bringing inititated measures to the voters to steer the legislature where we need them to go. 

BS................the OHF was created in the last legislature with the idea of implementing the program and as it matured more funding could be added which is exactly what's happening. A "group" has now decided to go their own route and want to spend like drunken sailors. The OHF is the correct way to handle this and I hope the majority can see that.

this is proof they knew damn well the 30 million was a piss poor offering.  now that they have a measure brought forward they know they better step up to the plate.  If this measure hadn't made the ballot we would be seeing 30 million.  which a big chunk would no doubt have gone to administering it. 

 

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Best part about the article today in the Forum is the fact that $1,000,000.00 dollars of out of state money has been put into the opponents coffers from American Petroleum Institute. Their contact address is
API
1220 L Street, NW
Washington, DC 20005-4070
USA

Good old out of state interests wouldn't you say trying to influence ND policy. The hypocrisy of this is the ads being run with that out of state money decry out of state money!!! Got to love it!!
 
SO NOW YOU ABSOLUTELY KNOW WITHOUT ANY DOUBT GST THAT YOUR GROUP IS EXACTLY AS I HAVE SAID HYPOCRITES!!!!!

In my lifetime I have seen fence row to fence row farming and the return of CRP and game to the landscape.Now we face again the prosepect of fence row to fence row again! Sportsman are our own worst enemy in that we fail to look forward and focus to much on the now!

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eyexer Said:

RSL Said:
Don't forget that the major proponents of Measure 5 are non-profit groups that are not required to pay (property) taxes.  What could happen to your property taxes if this measure passes and land in your county is bought so you have a closer place to hunt but that land is taken off of the tax rolls? 

non profits pay property taxes

eye, note the response to this same claim by hwm.

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eye why do you ALWAYS have to be such an idiot.

The people behind M 5 did their polling just like ladd suggested. It showed people wanted to see more parks developed here in ND. So that is what M5 supporters focused their claims on. Get on their sites and it went from talkking about flood control to people in Fargo or hunitng access to people in Bismarck or farm program options when talking ot farmers to all these dollars will be used to create new parks.

The legislature started the OHF with the understanding that it would walk before it ran and responsibly develop programs that were effective and good PRIOR to throwing billions of dollars at the wall hoping something worked.

They are finding this process to be accountable and responsible and as such willing to increase the committment to it.

And yet that is not enough for DU and others. So what is this really about?

It is not about the monies or conservation programs it seems, but about the only other difference that remains.

Who "controls" the funding and using it to buy land.

Despite the false claims by some M5 IS a mandated spending amendment to our states constitution. It was brought forth by liberal out of state environmental organizations.

The end result of which will be far different than a responsible  increased funding of the OHF.

Yopu bitch and whine about the state not throwing monies at everything you want them to.

Many of us in agriculture have watched as people thought the good times would never end and went out and spent monies that were free and easy like there was no tommorrow.

Many of those people had to face the tough consequences of their choices and are no longer in business.

Does our state need to invest this windfall back into our state? Of course, but it must be done responsibly. The scope of this boom IS different than ones before, but we simply do not know what may impact it thru regulation, global development  ect.....

Eye for once actually go to  this link and check out the clients that have been hired by this company. This is the company that was hired to run this measures campaign.

http://hamburgercompany.com/clients

Look at EVERY SINGLE ONE of their clients, they are part of the who's who in environmentalism in politics.

How do you think these people would vote on a bill to end fracking?

This state needs to drive it's own future, not open the doors to out of state groups like those behind this measure.

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eyexer Said:

tshort Said:

eyexer Said:

Fritz the Cat Said:

Governor's press release yesterday 9/29/2014 concerning measure 5.

Governor Jack Dalrymple proposes an alternative plan to a conservation measure on the November ballot.

There are eight measures on this year's November Ballot and Initiated Constitutional Measure Number 5 has gotten the attention of some of the state's top officials including the Governor.

The fifth measure on North Dakota's November ballot is designed to set up conservation funding using the state's oil tax money.

And, it's being supported by local wildlife groups including Ducks Unlimited Great Plains Region.

"Measure 5 is a really great opportunity for us to invest into our great quality of life in North Dakota. We can do something to protect our clean water, to protect our communities and private land owners from flooding by improving natural flood control," Ducks Unlimited Great Plains Region Director of Public Policy Carmen Miller.

If the measure is approved by the voters it would constitutionally mandate five percent of oil extraction tax revenue to be allocated for conservation projects.

While some voters have taken issue with the constitutional mandate, Miller disagrees.

"You know the constitution is a reflection of our values and clean water certainly rises to that level," says Miller.

But, Governor Dalrymple says he doesn't believe a constitutional measure is needed to address the issue.

On Monday he announced his own 80.4 million dollar plan for the 2015 to 2017 biennium.

"While calling for 30.4 million in state park improvements, I will also propose increasing the commitment to the North Dakota Outdoor Heritage fund to 50 million dollars for the upcoming biennium," says Dalrymple.

The proposal includes investments in Lake Sakakawea State Park as well as a Missouri River Day Park in South Bismarck.

"This is the plan and this is the approach that I feel is the right way to go in enhancing conservation and outdoor recreation in North Dakota," says Governor Dalrymple.

Miller says she's glad to hear the Governor address conservation in the state.

"It looks like the Governor's validating what we've been talking about for three years. So we're thrilled to see that conversation's happening and we're thrilled to see these issues are getting that attention," says Miller.

If voters say yes to Measure 5 the Governor says the state's executive branch will make it a "workable plan."

But he says he believes his plan is better.

So for now, it's up to the voters to decide.

GEEZ LOUISE..............the Governor does a press release yesterday 9/29/2014 and the media turns it into the Carmen Miller story. Dalrymple needed to come out strong and this is what happens when you pull your punches.

And then there is this statement:
 

If voters say yes to Measure 5 the Governor says the state's executive branch will make it a "workable plan."

 

Does anyone believe by extending an olive branch early, just in case the conservation boyz win, that they will be cooperative later?

What is the difference between the conservation boyz and a terrorist?

You can negociate with a terrorist.

Classic.  Don't do anything until your in fear of loosing control.  Now Dalrymple wants to help.  Where the hell was he three or four years ago.  This is exactly what they did with property taxes.  I guess we just have to keep bringing inititated measures to the voters to steer the legislature where we need them to go. 

BS................the OHF was created in the last legislature with the idea of implementing the program and as it matured more funding could be added which is exactly what's happening. A "group" has now decided to go their own route and want to spend like drunken sailors. The OHF is the correct way to handle this and I hope the majority can see that.

this is proof they knew damn well the 30 million was a piss poor offering.  now that they have a measure brought forward they know they better step up to the plate.  If this measure hadn't made the ballot we would be seeing 30 million.  which a big chunk would no doubt have gone to administering it. 

What this is, is proof that the OHF is working exactly as planned. Start out with a controlled situation and add the funds as necessary and tweak it as necessary. It has been understood from day one that additional funds can be added if necessary.

eyexer's picture
eyexer
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gst Said:

eyexer Said:

RSL Said:
Don't forget that the major proponents of Measure 5 are non-profit groups that are not required to pay (property) taxes.  What could happen to your property taxes if this measure passes and land in your county is bought so you have a closer place to hunt but that land is taken off of the tax rolls? 

non profits pay property taxes

eye, note the response to this same claim by hwm.

it bared repeating

 

eyexer's picture
eyexer
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Joined: 2/28/07

tshort Said:

eyexer Said:

tshort Said:

eyexer Said:

Fritz the Cat Said:

Governor's press release yesterday 9/29/2014 concerning measure 5.

Governor Jack Dalrymple proposes an alternative plan to a conservation measure on the November ballot.

There are eight measures on this year's November Ballot and Initiated Constitutional Measure Number 5 has gotten the attention of some of the state's top officials including the Governor.

The fifth measure on North Dakota's November ballot is designed to set up conservation funding using the state's oil tax money.

And, it's being supported by local wildlife groups including Ducks Unlimited Great Plains Region.

"Measure 5 is a really great opportunity for us to invest into our great quality of life in North Dakota. We can do something to protect our clean water, to protect our communities and private land owners from flooding by improving natural flood control," Ducks Unlimited Great Plains Region Director of Public Policy Carmen Miller.

If the measure is approved by the voters it would constitutionally mandate five percent of oil extraction tax revenue to be allocated for conservation projects.

While some voters have taken issue with the constitutional mandate, Miller disagrees.

"You know the constitution is a reflection of our values and clean water certainly rises to that level," says Miller.

But, Governor Dalrymple says he doesn't believe a constitutional measure is needed to address the issue.

On Monday he announced his own 80.4 million dollar plan for the 2015 to 2017 biennium.

"While calling for 30.4 million in state park improvements, I will also propose increasing the commitment to the North Dakota Outdoor Heritage fund to 50 million dollars for the upcoming biennium," says Dalrymple.

The proposal includes investments in Lake Sakakawea State Park as well as a Missouri River Day Park in South Bismarck.

"This is the plan and this is the approach that I feel is the right way to go in enhancing conservation and outdoor recreation in North Dakota," says Governor Dalrymple.

Miller says she's glad to hear the Governor address conservation in the state.

"It looks like the Governor's validating what we've been talking about for three years. So we're thrilled to see that conversation's happening and we're thrilled to see these issues are getting that attention," says Miller.

If voters say yes to Measure 5 the Governor says the state's executive branch will make it a "workable plan."

But he says he believes his plan is better.

So for now, it's up to the voters to decide.

GEEZ LOUISE..............the Governor does a press release yesterday 9/29/2014 and the media turns it into the Carmen Miller story. Dalrymple needed to come out strong and this is what happens when you pull your punches.

And then there is this statement:
 

If voters say yes to Measure 5 the Governor says the state's executive branch will make it a "workable plan."

 

Does anyone believe by extending an olive branch early, just in case the conservation boyz win, that they will be cooperative later?

What is the difference between the conservation boyz and a terrorist?

You can negociate with a terrorist.

Classic.  Don't do anything until your in fear of loosing control.  Now Dalrymple wants to help.  Where the hell was he three or four years ago.  This is exactly what they did with property taxes.  I guess we just have to keep bringing inititated measures to the voters to steer the legislature where we need them to go. 

BS................the OHF was created in the last legislature with the idea of implementing the program and as it matured more funding could be added which is exactly what's happening. A "group" has now decided to go their own route and want to spend like drunken sailors. The OHF is the correct way to handle this and I hope the majority can see that.

this is proof they knew damn well the 30 million was a piss poor offering.  now that they have a measure brought forward they know they better step up to the plate.  If this measure hadn't made the ballot we would be seeing 30 million.  which a big chunk would no doubt have gone to administering it. 

What this is, is proof that the OHF is working exactly as planned. Start out with a controlled situation and add the funds as necessary and tweak it as necessary. It has been understood from day one that additional funds can be added if necessary.

All Dalrymple is doing is taking a 30 million dollar program and adding 20 million to it to make it 50 million.  The other 30 million is a one time chunk to upgrade some parks.  it's not a long term committment.  This will be just like property tax reform, throw us a bone for two years then it's back to business as usual.  50 million is a piss poor amount for conservation in a state with billions in surplus dollars that is growing by leaps and bounds. 

 

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Woodpecker
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Joined: 12/16/01

eyexer Said:

tshort Said:

eyexer Said:

tshort Said:

eyexer Said:

Fritz the Cat Said:

Governor's press release yesterday 9/29/2014 concerning measure 5.

Governor Jack Dalrymple proposes an alternative plan to a conservation measure on the November ballot.

There are eight measures on this year's November Ballot and Initiated Constitutional Measure Number 5 has gotten the attention of some of the state's top officials including the Governor.

The fifth measure on North Dakota's November ballot is designed to set up conservation funding using the state's oil tax money.

And, it's being supported by local wildlife groups including Ducks Unlimited Great Plains Region.

"Measure 5 is a really great opportunity for us to invest into our great quality of life in North Dakota. We can do something to protect our clean water, to protect our communities and private land owners from flooding by improving natural flood control," Ducks Unlimited Great Plains Region Director of Public Policy Carmen Miller.

If the measure is approved by the voters it would constitutionally mandate five percent of oil extraction tax revenue to be allocated for conservation projects.

While some voters have taken issue with the constitutional mandate, Miller disagrees.

"You know the constitution is a reflection of our values and clean water certainly rises to that level," says Miller.

But, Governor Dalrymple says he doesn't believe a constitutional measure is needed to address the issue.

On Monday he announced his own 80.4 million dollar plan for the 2015 to 2017 biennium.

"While calling for 30.4 million in state park improvements, I will also propose increasing the commitment to the North Dakota Outdoor Heritage fund to 50 million dollars for the upcoming biennium," says Dalrymple.

The proposal includes investments in Lake Sakakawea State Park as well as a Missouri River Day Park in South Bismarck.

"This is the plan and this is the approach that I feel is the right way to go in enhancing conservation and outdoor recreation in North Dakota," says Governor Dalrymple.

Miller says she's glad to hear the Governor address conservation in the state.

"It looks like the Governor's validating what we've been talking about for three years. So we're thrilled to see that conversation's happening and we're thrilled to see these issues are getting that attention," says Miller.

If voters say yes to Measure 5 the Governor says the state's executive branch will make it a "workable plan."

But he says he believes his plan is better.

So for now, it's up to the voters to decide.

GEEZ LOUISE..............the Governor does a press release yesterday 9/29/2014 and the media turns it into the Carmen Miller story. Dalrymple needed to come out strong and this is what happens when you pull your punches.

And then there is this statement:
 

If voters say yes to Measure 5 the Governor says the state's executive branch will make it a "workable plan."

 

Does anyone believe by extending an olive branch early, just in case the conservation boyz win, that they will be cooperative later?

What is the difference between the conservation boyz and a terrorist?

You can negociate with a terrorist.

Classic.  Don't do anything until your in fear of loosing control.  Now Dalrymple wants to help.  Where the hell was he three or four years ago.  This is exactly what they did with property taxes.  I guess we just have to keep bringing inititated measures to the voters to steer the legislature where we need them to go. 

BS................the OHF was created in the last legislature with the idea of implementing the program and as it matured more funding could be added which is exactly what's happening. A "group" has now decided to go their own route and want to spend like drunken sailors. The OHF is the correct way to handle this and I hope the majority can see that.

this is proof they knew damn well the 30 million was a piss poor offering.  now that they have a measure brought forward they know they better step up to the plate.  If this measure hadn't made the ballot we would be seeing 30 million.  which a big chunk would no doubt have gone to administering it. 

What this is, is proof that the OHF is working exactly as planned. Start out with a controlled situation and add the funds as necessary and tweak it as necessary. It has been understood from day one that additional funds can be added if necessary.

All Dalrymple is doing is taking a 30 million dollar program and adding 20 million to it to make it 50 million.  The other 30 million is a one time chunk to upgrade some parks.  it's not a long term committment.  This will be just like property tax reform, throw us a bone for two years then it's back to business as usual.  50 million is a piss poor amount for conservation in a state with billions in surplus dollars that is growing by leaps and bounds. 

Gets tiring hearing all the glass is half empty crap all the time. We still have a great state and this OHF has the potential to be a great program!!

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What this is, is proof that the OHF is working exactly as planned. Start out with a controlled situation and add the funds as necessary and tweak it as necessary. It has been understood from day one that additional funds can be added if necessary.

tshort that all sounds great, but is there actually anyone dumb enough to think it would happen?

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Plainsman Said:

What this is, is proof that the OHF is working exactly as planned. Start out with a controlled situation and add the funds as necessary and tweak it as necessary. It has been understood from day one that additional funds can be added if necessary.

tshort that all sounds great, but is there actually anyone dumb enough to think it would happen?

I am absolutely dumb enough to believe the funding will be increased in this session.

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Do I believe it will go up to $3,000,000 per week............NO!   But I seriously question the intelligence of those who want to throw out that kind of mandatory spending.

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Hardwaterman Said:
Best part about the article today in the Forum is the fact that $1,000,000.00 dollars of out of state money has been put into the opponents coffers from American Petroleum Institute. Their contact address is
API
1220 L Street, NW
Washington, DC 20005-4070
USA

Good old out of state interests wouldn't you say trying to influence ND policy. The hypocrisy of this is the ads being run with that out of state money decry out of state money!!! Got to love it!!
 
SO NOW YOU ABSOLUTELY KNOW WITHOUT ANY DOUBT GST THAT YOUR GROUP IS EXACTLY AS I HAVE SAID HYPOCRITES!!!!!

Ron, I never really expected the opposition to this measure not to respond in kind to what YOUR GROUP started. It happened in the last M5 and how else do you expect it to be a "fair" fight?

I come from the old school that a lot of North Dakotans other than you still understand ron, if you walk in a bar and throw a punch to start a fight, don;t whine when someone else throws a punch back.

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gst
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eyexer Said:

All Dalrymple is doing is taking a 30 million dollar program and adding 20 million to it to make it 50 million.  The other 30 million is a one time chunk to upgrade some parks.  it's not a long term committment.  This will be just like property tax reform, throw us a bone for two years then it's back to business as usual.  50 million is a piss poor amount for conservation in a state with billions in surplus dollars that is growing by leaps and bounds. 

 
And here in is the problem with the people and groups behind tis measure. No matter what is done, it is never enough.

How many times have we heard people argue that all they want is to register guns or back ground checks.

We all know how disingenuopus those claims are, and the ones being made by those behind this measure are no different. 

Trust us, change your constitution mandating spending. Trust us, give us billions in a program we wrote that allows us to buy land, but we won;t buy land, trust us that we will not use the entire 3% or $4.5 million on salaries, trust us that we will not work against energy or agriculture or the small businesses across this state that depend on them even though we have form official collaborations with the EPA, trust us.

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tshort Said:
Do I believe it will go up to $3,000,000 per week............NO!   But I seriously question the intelligence of those who want to throw out that kind of mandatory spending.

And all the spending proposals to the Industrial Commision will come from the 13 member panel not elected by anyone. This panel will be stacked with biologists, ecologists and wildlife managers that belong to these non-profits. 

All the taxpayers money will slip through the fingers of these surrogate non-governmental orgs. 

North Dakotans for Commonsense Conservation now has a facebook page.

 

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Plainsman Said:

What this is, is proof that the OHF is working exactly as planned. Start out with a controlled situation and add the funds as necessary and tweak it as necessary. It has been understood from day one that additional funds can be added if necessary.

tshort that all sounds great, but is there actually anyone dumb enough to think it would happen?

Who did you vote for for Governor last time plains?

This program has only existed for less than two years and is functioning exactly as it promised it would during the discussion on it in the legislature.

So yeah, bruce there are people that still believe in the representative form of govt here in our state that was much like the Republic form of govt the Founders gave us.

That you don;t and seem to want to go to a simple majority rules Democracy speaks volumes to your false claims of conservatism.

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 Gst ur actually creating votes for your opposition with every post.  

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Von Kaiser Said:
 Gst ur actually creating votes for your opposition with every post.  

he'll never get that.  When this measure came out I had no intention of voting for it.  Now I will just out of spite because of some peoples arrogance

 

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Im still voting no but certainly not due to the hundreds of paragraphs and insults being thrown around lately. 

eyexer Said:

Von Kaiser Said:
 Gst ur actually creating votes for your opposition with every post.  

he'll never get that.  When this measure came out I had no intention of voting for it.  Now I will just out of spite because of some peoples arrogance

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eyexer Said:

Von Kaiser Said:
 Gst ur actually creating votes for your opposition with every post.  

he'll never get that.  When this measure came out I had no intention of voting for it.  Now I will just out of spite because of some peoples arrogance

I wouldn't be surprised that some might do that........some might vote against it just to spite Plainsman.  Then there will be those that will use their brain and vote for or against it simply on it's merits.

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Hardwaterman Said:
Best part about the article today in the Forum is the fact that $1,000,000.00 dollars of out of state money has been put into the opponents coffers from American Petroleum Institute. Their contact address is
API
1220 L Street, NW
Washington, DC 20005-4070
USA

Good old out of state interests wouldn't you say trying to influence ND policy. The hypocrisy of this is the ads being run with that out of state money decry out of state money!!! Got to love it!!
 
SO NOW YOU ABSOLUTELY KNOW WITHOUT ANY DOUBT GST THAT YOUR GROUP IS EXACTLY AS I HAVE SAID HYPOCRITES!!!!!

It seems you think addresses are important here ron.

A bit of information and one question for you.

here is the information:

Hamburger Company 5614 Connecticut Ave, N.W., #219 Washington, DC 20015. Street Address: Hamburger Company 4000 Albemarle St NW Suite 403

Here is a link to their liberal environmental activist clients:

http://hamburgercompany.com/clients

Ron this is the agency determining the ideologies behind running the supporters of M5's campaign and in charge of spending all those out of state dollars.

Now here is the question ron, who is in charge of running the oppositions campaign and where are they from and would you describe them as conservative or liberal? What is their address?

Many of these measure come down to a difference in ideologies. M5 is just that. I guarantee you the opposition to M5 wants clean air, clean water and parks and wildlife.

Despite plainsman's tired old lies and rhetoric, I love clean air, clean water,  parks and wildlife. What people like plainsman do not know is that I advocated long and hard in ag orgs for a program like the OHF before it existed and spoke often about working together thru the Natural Areas Aquisition Committee with orgs on parcels that we could find common ground on.

But this measure that places mandated funding into our constitution is simply a bad idea.

THEY threw the first punch in a fight THEY started when THEY walked away from a cooperative agreement involving ALL the stakeholders created thru the legislature last session.

Now people like ron are whining when they get punched back. I think the old school North Dakota voters will see thru the whining.


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Von Kaiser Said:
 Gst ur actually creating votes for your opposition with every post.  

eyexer Said:

Von Kaiser Said:
 Gst ur actually creating votes for your opposition with every post.  

he'll never get that.  When this measure came out I had no intention of voting for it.  Now I will just out of spite because of some peoples arrogance

tshort Said:
I wouldn't be surprised that some might do that........some might vote against it just to spite Plainsman.  Then there will be those that will use their brain and vote for or against it simply on it's merits.

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