measure 5 phone call

just got a call from steve adair and now im on a live conference with a measure five meeting?  whats the deal?

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eyexer Said:

Plainsman Said:

eyexer Said:
I think when it's basically farm organizations that are opposing this it has to be a good thing for everybody else.

Sadly that's becoming true.  Years ago it was not, but our sport may die faster with the farm attitude than the threats from PETA.  At least that's what I gather from the two representing farmers on here.

in the 70's and 80's the sport was booming.  you could hunt 90% of the land without any issues.  now the sport is in near collapse and you can hunt 10% of the land.  not hard to put the pieces together on that.  that's why I pretty much just fish.  I have places I can hunt pheasants as much as I need but deer and waterfowl are pretty much a shitfest.

In the 70's and 80's we didn't have internet sites like Nodak and FBO where people whine and bitch about the people that make a living to support their families on the lands they want to recreate on.

In the 70's and 80's we didn;t have the activist groups pairing with Federal agencies in "official colarborations" or "memorandums of understanding" to restrict those people making a living to support their families on the lands others want to recreate on.

In the 70's and 80' here in the state legislature we did not have people like Dick Monsons and gang trying to pass legislation restricting people that make a living supporting their families on the lands others want to recreate on.

It kind of always amazes me that the people that constantly are kicking agriculture in the nuts can never figure out why agriculture would get tired of the people kicking them in the nuts.

plaisnamn said earlier he "supports" agriculture...............spend 5 minutes over on Nodak where he is a moderator and see what lkind of "support" that is.  

The OHF was created by energy and ag as a start to address these issues with ag and energy leading the way and the whiney sob's that didn;t get everything they wanted (billions of dollars to buy land) cried their way over to this measure and are now trying to fool the voters of ND this is not about grabing the monies and buying land.

Money and land.

The Cook lawsuit.

Mandated spending.

Consitutional amendment to force spending.

No on 5

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eyexer Said:

Plainsman Said:

eyexer Said:
I think when it's basically farm organizations that are opposing this it has to be a good thing for everybody else.

Sadly that's becoming true.  Years ago it was not, but our sport may die faster with the farm attitude than the threats from PETA.  At least that's what I gather from the two representing farmers on here.

in the 70's and 80's the sport was booming.  you could hunt 90% of the land without any issues.  now the sport is in near collapse and you can hunt 10% of the land.  not hard to put the pieces together on that.  that's why I pretty much just fish.  I have places I can hunt pheasants as much as I need but deer and waterfowl are pretty much a shitfest.


I think people who belong to ducks unlimited, North Dakota wildlife federation, ND chapter of the wildlife society, pheasants forever, audubon society and/or nature conservancy should be required to have a huge decal in the window of their truck.

eye, back in the 70's and 80's were good times. The pretend hunting non-profits got their shot in the arm in the 90's. The stock market was doing very well and companies rat holed millions into their foundations. Then they started giving money to the pretend hunting orgs. The money came with directives.

Once upon a time when the fed/gov and surrogate tribe wanted meat they would cover themselves with fair chase robes and mingle among the real hunters. When they got close to the cliff they through off the robes and yelled at the top of their lungs, crisis, habitat destruction, endangered specie, ethics, scaring the hell out of the old real hunter bull who in his role of leader blindly lunged over the cliff with his followers right behind. The fed/gov and surrogate non-profits tribe would quickly get out of the way and watch with anticipation of a great feast. True story as told to me by a old dieing and misguided fair chaser.

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eyexer Said:

in the 70's and 80's the sport was booming.  you could hunt 90% of the land without any issues.  now the sport is in near collapse and you can hunt 10% of the land.

A few people always use this "scare tactic" .

Eye you nor anyone else have answered the one question that the answer to blows a hole thru this little bullshit gem.

What was it 3 years ago the NDG&F gave out 160,000 deer tags?

Where were all those deer shot?

Hunting is not "near collapse".

Has it changed?  of course, everything has changed since the 70' and 80's. But there are still tons of opportunities but they may require a little more work and our society simply does not want to do that. They want everything given to them rather than put any effort into it.

THAT is as big a change with hunting as anything.

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Fritz the Cat Said:

eyexer Said:

Plainsman Said:

eyexer Said:
I think when it's basically farm organizations that are opposing this it has to be a good thing for everybody else.

Sadly that's becoming true.  Years ago it was not, but our sport may die faster with the farm attitude than the threats from PETA.  At least that's what I gather from the two representing farmers on here.

in the 70's and 80's the sport was booming.  you could hunt 90% of the land without any issues.  now the sport is in near collapse and you can hunt 10% of the land.  not hard to put the pieces together on that.  that's why I pretty much just fish.  I have places I can hunt pheasants as much as I need but deer and waterfowl are pretty much a shitfest.

I think people who belong to ducks unlimited, North Dakota wildlife federation, ND chapter of the wildlife society, pheasants forever, audubon society and/or nature conservancy should be required to have a huge decal in the window of their truck.

eye, back in the 70's and 80's were good times. The pretend hunting non-profits got their shot in the arm in the 90's. The stock market was doing very well and companies rat holed millions into their foundations. Then they started giving money to the pretend hunting orgs. The money came with directives.

Once upon a time when the fed/gov and surrogate tribe wanted meat they would cover themselves with fair chase robes and mingle among the real hunters. When they got close to the cliff they through off the robes and yelled at the top of their lungs, crisis, habitat destruction, endangered specie, ethics, scaring the hell out of the old real hunter bull who in his role of leader blindly lunged over the cliff with his followers right behind. The fed/gov and surrogate non-profits tribe would quickly get out of the way and watch with anticipation of a great feast. True story as told to me by a old dieing and misguided fair chaser.

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Give the money back to taxpayer

Stay thirsty my friends

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Energy and Ag leading the way to promote conservation in North Dakota? That gave me a good chuckle this morning, thank you. When deer numbers were high, they were shot on a combination of both private and public land, not sure what the point is there. Why were deer numbers so high gst? Because of mild winters and also just as important, great habitat available all over the state. Habitat is one of the most, if not the most important foundation for healthy wildlife populations, and the state is losing it in record amounts. Many people seem to forget that. People like gst and fritz only think about the now. Are there still good opportunities available to sportsmen? Absolutely. But several years to draw a deer tag? You guys call that a good opportunity?  What about ten years from now?  Answer me that question. It’s obvious that if something more is not done, the hunting and overall recreation opportunities are going to continue to decline. If you want to hunt private land in the  state, get ready to open your pocketbooks to go hunting in 5-10 years. Other states have been through the exact same thing.With not a lot of private land to hunt on, where is everyone going to go? Public land is going to get hammered hard.

Eyexer is right. When I was a young lad, mid to late eighties and early nineties before I was able to get a liscense, there were way more opportunities to hunt private land, especially big game. I can remember being able to hunt all over. Times have changed. Its why our hunting group no longer applies for tags in the areas we used to. The opportunities to hunt private land have dropped considerably. Land has been sold/developed/ownership split up, land has been posted up tighter than ever before, more people are hunting, the list goes on.

The state in the last decade has been reactive to every single thing that goes on. The state waits until something drastic happens to do something about it. Good examples are all the spills/releases happening out west and  infrastructure needs (including roads). Several years into this boom and needs still have not been adequately addressed. My point is that we as a state need to be more proactive in dealing with issues. Measure 5 can help do that. This isn’t about each person’s recreation opportunities, this is about helping keep what has made this state great to live in for every single person in the state before  the unprecedented economic development.  Bottom line is I am not going to trust  the Energy and Ag super groups  when it comes to providing a good quality of life for the people of North Dakota, and neither should anyone else.

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed

Go afield with a good attitude, with respect for the wildlife you hunt and for the forest and fields in which you walk.  Immerse yourself in the outdoor experience. It will cleanse your soul and make you a better person. -Fred Bear-
 

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us taxpayers subsidize the shit out of ag and all they want to do is tell us to F off.  gotta love it.

 

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odocoileus Said:

Energy and Ag leading the way to promote conservation in North Dakota? That gave me a good chuckle this morning, thank you.

Why do you have to lie like that odie? I mean people can read what was said, what do you think you accomplish with your lies?

That clearly was not what was said. So you either intentionally lie or are just and idiot that can;t understand plain English.

gst Said:

The OHF was created by energy and ag as a start to address these issues with ag and energy leading the way and the whiney sob's that didn;t get everything they wanted (billions of dollars to buy land) cried their way over to this measure and are now trying to fool the voters of ND this is not about grabing the monies and buying land.

Money and land.

The Cook lawsuit.

Mandated spending.

Consitutional amendment to force spending.

No on 5

Now odie who was behind the inception of the legislation that created the OHF?

Try a little honesty in your answer this time.

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odocoileus Said:

Energy and Ag leading the way to promote conservation in North Dakota? That gave me a good chuckle this morning, thank you. When deer numbers were high, they were shot on a combination of both private and public land, not sure what the point is there. The "point" here is that people like eye claim you can't hunting on 90% of private lands anymore. That simply is not true. The VAST majority of those 160,000 tags that were filled were filled on private lands. The G&F state this and anyone with a degree of common sense would admit that. Why were deer numbers so high gst? Because of mild winters and also just as important, great habitat available all over the state. Habitat is one of the most, if not the most important foundation for healthy wildlife populations, and the state is losing it in record amounts. CRP?  One row old dying tree rows blown in with snow? Odie, how many deer live in CRP during the winter??? What do they live on in CRP during the winter. You want to lay a line of bullshit about CRP as winter "habitat" for deer out there you are only going to look like a fool. Many people seem to forget that. People like gst and fritz only think about the now. Indeed odie that is why I spend tens of thousand of dollars planting trees. The benefits I see for them are "now" indeed. Are there still good opportunities available to sportsmen? Absolutely. But several years to draw a deer tag? So let me get this straight, you admit bad winters (forgot to mention disease EHD) cause deer numbers to drop so tags are reduced and you insinuate this measure will do something about that??? You guys call that a good opportunity?  What about ten years from now?  Answer me that question. It’s obvious that if something more is not done, the hunting and overall recreation opportunities are going to continue to decline. If you want to hunt private land in the  state, get ready to open your pocketbooks to go hunting in 5-10 years. Perhaps if you are a whiney ass that bitches about agriculture and supports the policies of DU and other nonprofits that have agendas to directly impact ag negatively by" opening your pocketbooks" at their banquets and thru donations wouldn;t it be only fair for those people to be expected to pay for their opportunities to hunt private lands as well? Other states have been through the exact same thing.With not a lot of private land to hunt on, where is everyone going to go? Public land is going to get hammered hard.

Eyexer is right. When I was a young lad, mid to late eighties and early nineties before I was able to get a liscense, there were way more opportunities to hunt private land, especially big game. And in the 60's their were less deer tags given out than today. I can remember being able to hunt all over. Times have changed. Indeed they have odie and to not look in the mirror and admit people like yourself and the groups you support playing a role is disingenuous. Its why our hunting group no longer applies for tags in the areas we used to. The opportunities to hunt private land have dropped considerably. Land has been sold/developed/ownership split up, land has been posted up tighter than ever before, more people are hunting, the list goes on.

Wait a minute, on one hand you are claiming hunting is dying, and yet on the other here now you claim more people are hunting than ever before???

The state in the last decade has been reactive to every single thing that goes on. The state waits until something drastic happens to do something about it. Good examples are all the spills/releases happening out west and  infrastructure needs (including roads). Several years into this boom and needs still have not been adequately addressed. My point is that we as a state need to be more proactive in dealing with issues. Measure 5 can help do that. It could have been done without screwing with mandating funding in our constitution. This isn’t about each person’s recreation opportunities, this is about helping keep what has made this state great to live in for every single person in the state before  the unprecedented economic development.  Bottom line is I am not going to trust  the Energy and Ag super groups  when it comes to providing a good quality of life for the people of North Dakota, and neither should anyone else.

Bottom line is I am not going to trust the groups behind this measure based on the history they have demonstrated with their disingenuous claims as to why they want to change our constitution and neither should anyone else.

Odie, why not just come out and say we want to be able to buy land and we want to use these dollars to do so?

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eyexer Said:
us taxpayers subsidize the shit out of ag and all they want to do is tell us to F off.  gotta love it.

Go check out a grocery store in Russia eye.

Ask a china man living in Bejing what percentage of their disposable income they spend on groceries?

Ask people in Egypt how they would feel about a national food security program?

It ALWAYS comes down to that with a few of you guys doesn;t it.

And yet you are surprised when you have no private lands to hunt.

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Where did I claim CRP was wintering habitat? Nowhere. Get a clue gst. Your Energy and Ag supergroups  dont give a crap about conservation.

More people are hunting because there are tens of thousands of more people in the state. Hunting is not dead, but in ten years lets reassess that question. Write it in on your multiwebsite propaganda spewing calender gst. How is that you decide which website to bombard for the day anyways? Draw out of a hat? Flip a coin?

And I really could care less how much money you spend on your own land. Your not going to get a cookie from anyone, except from maybe the government, because thats who helped you likely  fund the planting of some or all of those trees.

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed

Go afield with a good attitude, with respect for the wildlife you hunt and for the forest and fields in which you walk.  Immerse yourself in the outdoor experience. It will cleanse your soul and make you a better person. -Fred Bear-
 

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Give it back to one u took it from

Stay thirsty my friends

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Thiefs

Stay thirsty my friends

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gst writes:

The OHF was created by energy and ag as a start to address these issues with ag and energy leading the way

The OHF was created as an end run around the people who value conservation.  Two conservation hating groups trying to cut conservation off with a token offer. 

eyexer I have had a gun in my and since I was seven years old.  Nope, not a BB gun a bolt action Marlin 22.  That would be 1955.   In 1957 we seen our first posted sign just south of our farm.  We wondered what kind of person would do that.  He was the same guy that sprayed with a south east wind and killed our entire Juneberry patch.  He was the same guy who mined his land and left a foot of dirt in our Soil Bank land in the early 1960' or late 1950's.  At my age years run together and I really don't remember it that well.  He was the kind of guy that plowed every acre, bulldozed every tree, drained before others thought of it, and posted fields that were summer fallow.  In other words he disliked his fellow man so much he posted dirt for fear someone would step on it. 

Our only hope is that fritz and gst really don't represent the average farmer.  If they did I would promote jerking every penny that went to agriculture.  I would call my congressman and tell him save the tax dollars they don't deserve it.  Two guys who think they are royalty.  They don't appreciate the tax dollars they get, and bitch because we don't want them raping the resource.  Keep it up guys and destroy hunting.  Then look around and see who cares about you anymore. 

Now let the land posting threats begin.  Most that threaten have been posting for years so no loss there.  Most that post either have their hand out or just dislike people.   Good farmers and bad farmers, good hunters and bad hunters.  Roads rutted, and often by local neighbors.  Sometimes by hunters. 

gst will call me ag basher again, but the truth is I support those who support me.  I dislike destructive land practices and that angers gst.  Why?  The only reason I can see is he wants the freedom to rape the resource while at the same time claiming to be conservation king of the ag community.  Fritz tells us what great habitat he has.  I would ask how great is your habitat outside of your fenced in hunts?  Of course you have good habitat in there your doing it for your own good, but your present it as if your making a sacrifice for habitat and wildlife.  Your not talking to naïve third graders guys.

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Plainsman Said:
gst writes:

The OHF was created by energy and ag as a start to address these issues with ag and energy leading the way

The OHF was created as an end run around the people who value conservation.  Two conservation hating groups trying to cut conservation off with a token offer. 
And there yet once again you have it folks in black and white 30 million in a program that could be increased to fund responsible accountable programs that has had 80 million added to it to address the clear response to polling that showed people wanted more state parks and YET is is still not enough. "All we want is to register your guns"..................trust us.
eyexer I have had a gun in my and since I was seven years old.  Nope, not a BB gun a bolt action Marlin 22.  That would be 1955.   In 1957 we seen our first posted sign just south of our farm.  We wondered what kind of person would do that.  He was the same guy that sprayed with a south east wind and killed our entire Juneberry patch.  He was the same guy who mined his land and left a foot of dirt in our Soil Bank land in the early 1960' or late 1950's.  At my age years run together and I really don't remember it that well.  He was the kind of guy that plowed every acre, bulldozed every tree, drained before others thought of it, and posted fields that were summer fallow.  In other words he disliked his fellow man so much he posted dirt for fear someone would step on it. 

Nice story. Where were the 160,000 deer tags filled plainsman?

Our only hope is that fritz and gst really don't represent the average farmer.  If they did I would promote jerking every penny that went to agriculture.  I would call my congressman and tell him save the tax dollars they don't deserve it. Go aheasd plainsman but make sure you take a look at the new farm bill and include those govt dollars for conservation that go to agriculture as well. Two guys who think they are royalty.  They don't appreciate the tax dollars they get, and bitch because we don't want them raping the resource.  Keep it up guys and destroy hunting.  Then look around and see who cares about you anymore. 

Now let the land posting threats begin.  Most that threaten have been posting for years so no loss there.  Most that post either have their hand out or just dislike people.   Good farmers and bad farmers, good hunters and bad hunters.  Roads rutted, and often by local neighbors.  Sometimes by hunters. 

gst will call me ag basher again, but the truth is I support those who support me. All one has to do is to look to Nodak to see your kind of "support" bruce.  I dislike destructive land practices and that angers gst.  Why?  The only reason I can see is he wants the freedom to rape the resource while at the same time claiming to be conservation king of the ag community.  Nice childish, foolish, rhetoric bruce, when you can not defend the measure it becomes very apparent. Fritz tells us what great habitat he has.  I would ask how great is your habitat outside of your fenced in hunts?  Of course you have good habitat in there your doing it for your own good, but your present it as if your making a sacrifice for habitat and wildlife.  Your not talking to naïve third graders guys.No we are not, Just like in the HFH measure and the NDFB right to farm measure bruce. The voters saw thru your bullshit claims then and I hope they will here as well.

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Commies!!

Stay thirsty my friends

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gst Said:

eyexer Said:
us taxpayers subsidize the shit out of ag and all they want to do is tell us to F off.  gotta love it.

Go check out a grocery store in Russia eye.

Ask a china man living in Bejing what percentage of their disposable income they spend on groceries?

Ask people in Egypt how they would feel about a national food security program?

It ALWAYS comes down to that with a few of you guys doesn;t it.

And yet you are surprised when you have no private lands to hunt.

I don't give a rats ass about those guys and/or where they get their food.  We don't need to be the worlds food provider any more than we need to be the worlds peacekeeper/nation builder. 

 

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Plainsman Said:
gst writes:

The OHF was created by energy and ag as a start to address these issues with ag and energy leading the way

The OHF was created as an end run around the people who value conservation.  Two conservation hating groups trying to cut conservation off with a token offer. 

eyexer I have had a gun in my and since I was seven years old.  Nope, not a BB gun a bolt action Marlin 22.  That would be 1955.   In 1957 we seen our first posted sign just south of our farm.  We wondered what kind of person would do that.  He was the same guy that sprayed with a south east wind and killed our entire Juneberry patch.  He was the same guy who mined his land and left a foot of dirt in our Soil Bank land in the early 1960' or late 1950's.  At my age years run together and I really don't remember it that well.  He was the kind of guy that plowed every acre, bulldozed every tree, drained before others thought of it, and posted fields that were summer fallow.  In other words he disliked his fellow man so much he posted dirt for fear someone would step on it. 

Our only hope is that fritz and gst really don't represent the average farmer.  If they did I would promote jerking every penny that went to agriculture.  I would call my congressman and tell him save the tax dollars they don't deserve it.  Two guys who think they are royalty.  They don't appreciate the tax dollars they get, and bitch because we don't want them raping the resource.  Keep it up guys and destroy hunting.  Then look around and see who cares about you anymore. 

Now let the land posting threats begin.  Most that threaten have been posting for years so no loss there.  Most that post either have their hand out or just dislike people.   Good farmers and bad farmers, good hunters and bad hunters.  Roads rutted, and often by local neighbors.  Sometimes by hunters. 

gst will call me ag basher again, but the truth is I support those who support me.  I dislike destructive land practices and that angers gst.  Why?  The only reason I can see is he wants the freedom to rape the resource while at the same time claiming to be conservation king of the ag community.  Fritz tells us what great habitat he has.  I would ask how great is your habitat outside of your fenced in hunts?  Of course you have good habitat in there your doing it for your own good, but your present it as if your making a sacrifice for habitat and wildlife.  Your not talking to naïve third graders guys.

I would say the guy you just described is a direct ancestor to 80% of today's farmers.  And sadly those type make up 80% of today's farmers.  It is time to end all subsidies for farmers until they learn to appreciate their fellow tax payers a little.  If they wish to post their land by all means go ahead, it's their land they can do with it as they wish.  I wish it was a level playing field where I could say none of my tax dollars go to subsidizing farmers. 

 

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eyexer Said:
I would say the guy you just described is a direct ancestor to 80% of today's farmers.  And sadly those type make up 80% of today's farmers.  It is time to end all subsidies for farmers until they learn to appreciate their fellow tax payers a little.  If they wish to post their land by all means go ahead, it's their land they can do with it as they wish.  I wish it was a level playing field where I could say none of my tax dollars go to subsidizing farmers. 

eye I see your economic genius is at work once again. Go ahead remove all govt payments.  Exactly what do you think you would get back eye? How many "taxpayer dollars" would you actually get back into your pocket?

I would really like to hear your answer here eye. Most people spend more in the bar than they would get back it govt payments to agriculture ended.

So come on eye lets hear the math. While you pecking away at your calculator, stop and consider the following.

 
1. realize the controls over wetland and erodible soils ect...will be gone as the govt cannot engage in a takings of a value from someones lands without just and fair compensation.

2. Cash rents will go down, seed costs will go down, fertilizer costs will go down ect... everyone knows how to do a spread sheet and what profit is avaliable to fill their piece of the pie. We will be back to farming with far less total dollars at stake.

You don't seem to realize you are NOT "subsidizing" the farmer, those dollars do NOT end up in a matteress, they endup back into the fertilizer dealer, the machinery dealer, the pickup dealer, the builing supply stores, the hardware store, the concrete business ect..... And guess what eye who benefits from those jobs and profits those businesses see? The "average Joe" that in turn most times if they are not assholes has no problem finding one of the farmers they do business lands to hunt on. THAT is where those 160,000 deer tags were filled. Exactly why do you think the Greater Chamber of Commerce is putting $400,000.00 plus into opposing this measure???

Christ almighty you are an economic genius eye.

3. guys that have cattle will be far less impacted than those soley farming. Those farmers will adapt as well.

4. All govt conservation programs must disappear as well.

It ALWAYS comes back to bash on agriculture with the loudest whiners on these sites.

And yet these same people can;t seem to figure out why agriculture opposes things like this measure and the groups these whiners are often the biggest supporters of.

When Farmers Union and Farm Bureau are on the same side, people might want to stop and think what the end result will be.

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gst Said:

eyexer Said:
I would say the guy you just described is a direct ancestor to 80% of today's farmers.  And sadly those type make up 80% of today's farmers.  It is time to end all subsidies for farmers until they learn to appreciate their fellow tax payers a little.  If they wish to post their land by all means go ahead, it's their land they can do with it as they wish.  I wish it was a level playing field where I could say none of my tax dollars go to subsidizing farmers. 

eye I see your economic genius is at work once again. Go ahead remove all govt payments.  Exactly what do you think you would get back eye? How many "taxpayer dollars" would you actually get back into your pocket?

I would really like to hear your answer here eye. Most people spend more in the bar than they would get back it govt payments to agriculture ended.

So come on eye lets hear the math. While you pecking away at your calculator, stop and consider the following.

 
1. realize the controls over wetland and erodible soils ect...will be gone as the govt cannot engage in a takings of a value from someones lands without just and fair compensation.

2. Cash rents will go down, seed costs will go down, fertilizer costs will go down ect... everyone knows how to do a spread sheet and what profit is avaliable to fill their piece of the pie. We will be back to farming with far less total dollars at stake.

You don't seem to realize you are NOT "subsidizing" the farmer, those dollars do NOT end up in a matteress, they endup back into the fertilizer dealer, the machinery dealer, the pickup dealer, the builing supply stores, the hardware store, the concrete business ect..... And guess what eye who benefits from those jobs and profits those businesses see? The "average Joe" that in turn most times if they are not assholes has no problem finding one of the farmers they do business lands to hunt on. THAT is where those 160,000 deer tags were filled. Exactly why do you think the Greater Chamber of Commerce is putting $400,000.00 plus into opposing this measure???

Christ almighty you are an economic genius eye.

3. guys that have cattle will be far less impacted than those soley farming. Those farmers will adapt as well.

4. All govt conservation programs must disappear as well.

It ALWAYS comes back to bash on agriculture with the loudest whiners on these sites.

And yet these same people can;t seem to figure out why agriculture opposes things like this measure and the groups these whiners are often the biggest supporters of.

When Farmers Union and Farm Bureau are on the same side, people might want to stop and think what the end result will be.

you sound like a liberal politician, welfare stimulates the economy.  haha.  classic. 

 

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You don't seem to realize you are NOT "subsidizing" the farmer, those dollars do NOT end up in a matteress, they endup back into the fertilizer dealer, the machinery dealer, the pickup dealer, the builing supply stores, the hardware store, the concrete business ect.....

Wow you actually don't understand that the dollar a guy gives to you can be spent by him just like you can spend it.  You don't think he can take that same dollar and it goes back to business.  Your laughable.  Now like Obama your telling us you can spend our money better than we can. 

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eyexer Said:
us taxpayers subsidize the shit out of ag and all they want to do is tell us to F off.  gotta love it.

What in the hell has gottin' into you? All these years you have been spoofing tax and spend policies. This con amendment would create the six largest spending budget in the State.  

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Fritz the Cat Said:

eyexer Said:
us taxpayers subsidize the shit out of ag and all they want to do is tell us to F off.  gotta love it.

What in the hell has gottin' into you? All these years you have been spoofing tax and spend policies. This con amendment would create the six largest spending budget in the State.  

Anyone can read ten years of my posts in the political form on nodakoutdoors and decide if I am liberal or conservative.  You and gst fall back on the liberal accusation.  If people really want to know I suggest they look at my ten past years. 
Now, what has gotten into us.  You and gst that's what.  Couple of royalty who constantly tell us what's what.   Your not here to talk hunting and fishing with us.  You think everyone needs watching.  You think your riding herd.  Arrogant.

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 If you put everything on the table.  In the 70s and 80s very few if any were tile draining their fields.  Wetlands were not being drained.  Windbreaks were being planted, not torn up and most farms were true family farms.  I grew up on a family farm that is currently being controlled by family for hunting.

There were so many more farmers that were very conservation minded, they new that taking care of the land was critical in leaving the farm in better shape than when they started.  You might find a farmstead on every section of land.  Now there are farms so big that they might control a whole township.  And the thinking has gone from conservation of their farm to maximum profits.  They have to pay for huge tractors, huge combines, and huge mortgage payments.  Just a matter of fact.  And any threat to their current way of life is going to be challenged.

Getting access to subsidized crop insurance is important now, as opposed to getting any type of conservation payment.  

I am not sure there is a balance that is even possible.  You are getting a good picture of both extremes (current farmers and current wildlife groups)  They both think they are both right, and they both are wrong.  I would rather see 5 pass that might bring farmers to the table as opposed to it falling and the conservation battle suffer even more.

Hunt_Fish31

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Measure 5 isn't a perfect plan.  I don't know if a perfect plan can be written.  However, the manner in which the opposition acts tell us this may be our only shot and we better take it.  It will increase all outdoor recreation opportunities in the future.  I also sincerely believe it will help private farms. 

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 Hunt_Fish31 Said:

 If you put everything on the table.  In the 70s and 80s very few if any were tile draining their fields.  Wetlands were not being drained.  Windbreaks were being planted, not torn up and most farms were true family farms.  I grew up on a family farm that is currently being controlled by family for hunting.

There were so many more farmers that were very conservation minded, they new that taking care of the land was critical in leaving the farm in better shape than when they started.  You might find a farmstead on every section of land.  Now there are farms so big that they might control a whole township.  And the thinking has gone from conservation of their farm to maximum profits.  They have to pay for huge tractors, huge combines, and huge mortgage payments.  Just a matter of fact.  And any threat to their current way of life is going to be challenged.

Getting access to subsidized crop insurance is important now, as opposed to getting any type of conservation payment.  

I am not sure there is a balance that is even possible.  You are getting a good picture of both extremes (current farmers and current wildlife groups)  They both think they are both right, and they both are wrong.  I would rather see 5 pass that might bring farmers to the table as opposed to it falling and the conservation battle suffer even more.

Let's see - I farm 36 sections and can combine 200 acres a day … so I can get my crop off in (36 x 640 acres / by 200 = 115.2 days!  Yah, just short of 4 months.  REALLY!

Steve.

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Plainsman Said:

You don't seem to realize you are NOT "subsidizing" the farmer, those dollars do NOT end up in a matteress, they endup back into the fertilizer dealer, the machinery dealer, the pickup dealer, the builing supply stores, the hardware store, the concrete business ect.....

Wow you actually don't understand that the dollar a guy gives to you can be spent by him just like you can spend it.  You don't think he can take that same dollar and it goes back to business.  Your laughable.  Now like Obama your telling us you can spend our money better than we can. 

No, I am merely telling you where those dollars end up. So take your pennies you pay into agriculture every year in your taxes and spend them yourself Bruce along with your govt pension paid by the taxpayers that comes out of my pocket.

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Hunt_Fish31 Said:
 If you put everything on the table.  In the 70s and 80s very few if any were tile draining their fields.  Wetlands were not being drained.  Actually there was a fair bit of ditch drainage done back in the 70's that was the last ime any drainage took place on our operation. Windbreaks were being planted, not torn up and most farms were true family farms. Funny how many NRCS stations are behind on tree plantings.  I grew up on a family farm that is currently being controlled by family for hunting.John Deere sold a lot of plows and packers back then too. Although the International was a much better plow. I can remember when Dad traded the JD  tandem 6 bottoms for a 12 bottom IH ........waaaay better plow.

There were so many more farmers that were very conservation minded, they new that taking care of the land was critical in leaving the farm in better shape than when they started.  I might be wrong, but I don;t think there were groups like the ND Grazing Lands Coalition and the NDSA Environmental Stewardship programs that acknowledge and hold up conservation back then. How many ag orgs were working with the G&F back then recognizing producers leading the way in conservation practices? You might find a farmstead on every section of land.  Now there are farms so big that they might control a whole township.  And the thinking has gone from conservation of their farm to maximum profits.  They have to pay for huge tractors, huge combines, and huge mortgage payments.  Just a matter of fact.  And any threat to their current way of life is going to be challenged.You can thank CRP in part for that happening here in ND. Whole farms were enrolled, kids moved away after their parents retired and moved away and now when they are rented back out those kids do not want to come back home to farm. So expansion happens. Farming IS a business. My parents raised 3 kids on 12 quarters and 120 cows. Paid for their college and bought land while doing so. Right now you need twice that many cattle and  twice that much land to do the same thing.

Getting access to subsidized crop insurance is important now, as opposed to getting any type of conservation payment.  

I am not sure there is a balance that is even possible.  You are getting a good picture of both extremes (current farmers and current wildlife groups)  They both think they are both right, and they both are wrong.  I would rather see 5 pass that might bring farmers to the table as opposed to it falling and the conservation battle suffer even more. It won;t bring them to the table. It will only drive the wedge deeper. Don;t think so? Explain why every grass roots driven policy ag org is against it. It is NOT the national Ag groups that are telling the state ag orgs what to do, it is the farmer rancher members that drive these policies here in our state. DU can;t say that, The Nature Conservancy can;t say that, the National Wildlfie Federation can't say that. When the NWF sued to change the managed haying and grazing of CRP the state affiliate org opposed it. Guess what happened any ways.
Plaisnamn will call this "scare tactics", think what you want, it is the truth.

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Plainsman Said:

Measure 5 isn't a perfect plan.  I don't know if a perfect plan can be written.  However, the manner in which the opposition acts tell us this may be our only shot and we better take it. Scare tactic!!!!! It will increase all outdoor recreation opportunities in the future.  I also sincerely believe it will help private farms. 

The OHF is a good start..........oh yeah it doesn;t allow these out of state non profits to buy land.

What the hell is a "private farm"??

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producers leading the way in conservation practices?

You mean pull them from the pasture when the tooth marks start to show on the rocks?  I have worked on federal land in North Dakota, South Dakota, Nebraska, Colorado, Wyoming, and Montana.  Federal grazing land that is.  When a fence divides the private from federal you can stand on that fence line and see a vast difference.  They take much better care of their own land, but complain about the federal land.  Most often the grazing rights have been in those families for at least two generations, so who is the problem.  The mentality is, I paid for that grass and I'm going to get every spear.  Leading the way in conservation, what are you smoking?

 it is the farmer rancher members that drive these policies here in our state. DU can;t say that, The Nature Conservancy can;t say that, the National Wildlfie Federation can't say that.

Yes they can.  It's simply that they get the out of state help that you cry about, then take out of state money yourself.  What do you call that again? You would be screaming hypocrite to the top of your lungs, but then it's ok for your interests.

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Recently there was a letter to the editor, Grand Forks Herald, from a former Minnesota Senator Bob Lessard. He was instrumental in getting passed the sales tax that Minnesota now has. Called Lessard-Sams.

 

 

Look at funded programs and requests for funding. Most proposals begin with "to acquire land in fee" or "to acquire land in permanent easement." They changed the web-site somewhat. Used to be they included all the money given to coot and carp club non-profits who provide technical services providers to manage all these newly acquired properties. Millions of dollars worth of contracts to DU and PF.
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Fritz the Cat Said:

eyexer Said:
us taxpayers subsidize the shit out of ag and all they want to do is tell us to F off.  gotta love it.

What in the hell has gottin' into you? All these years you have been spoofing tax and spend policies. This con amendment would create the six largest spending budget in the State.  

I'm voting for it out of spite to of our legislatures failures to address the issues out west and for hoarding billions of dollars of taxpayers money.  And for not truly addressing the skyrocketing property taxes in this state. 

 

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Plainsman Said:

producers leading the way in conservation practices?

You mean pull them from the pasture when the tooth marks start to show on the rocks? Okay bruce, I have provided you links to the ND Garzing Lands Coalition website as well as the NDSA Environmental Stewardship programs many times. So drop the stupid bullshit.  I have worked on federal land in North Dakota, South Dakota, Nebraska, Colorado, Wyoming, and Montana.  Federal grazing land that is.  When a fence divides the private from federal you can stand on that fence line and see a vast difference.  They take much better care of their own land, but complain about the federal land.  Just like the sheep grazing story you made up down in Wyoming in one of the Bundy threads. Most often the grazing rights have been in those families for at least two generations, so who is the problem.  The mentality is, I paid for that grass and I'm going to get every spear.  Leading the way in conservation, what are you smoking?

 it is the farmer rancher members that drive these policies here in our state. DU can;t say that, The Nature Conservancy can;t say that, the National Wildlfie Federation can't say that.

Yes they can. Show me where DU has a state convention where policy is deveoped and carried forth? 
Show me where the Nature Conservancy has a state board that meets with state members ]on an annual basis and state policy is developped. They don;t. so drop the lie bruce. It's simply that they get the out of state help that you cry about, then take out of state money yourself.  What do you call that again? You would be screaming hypocrite to the top of your lungs, but then it's ok for your interests. What the hell is a "private farm" Bruce? Are they different than the communal farm you would like to see? Come on bruce explain your claim.

This has progressed like most everyone of these threads does. Not much value in it alraedy as most people have seen the lack of credibility from the tired old claims and lies of plainsman and company. Just like the NDFB right to farm measure, just like the HFH measure.

Same people

Same tune

Different measure.

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eyexer Said:

Fritz the Cat Said:

eyexer Said:
us taxpayers subsidize the shit out of ag and all they want to do is tell us to F off.  gotta love it.

What in the hell has gottin' into you? All these years you have been spoofing tax and spend policies. This con amendment would create the six largest spending budget in the State.  

I'm voting for it out of spite to of our legislatures failures to address the issues out west and for hoarding billions of dollars of taxpayers money.  And for not truly addressing the skyrocketing property taxes in this state. 

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Plainsman Said:

producers leading the way in conservation practices?

 They take much better care of their own land, but complain about the federal land.

So those producers on their private lands must be "leading the way in conservation" then Bruce? Kind of like the ND Grazing Lands Coalition that create and implement innovative methods to better the land and leave behind something improved from what they received?

Your credibility suffers bruce when you contradict yourself in one post.

Plainsman Said: I have worked on federal land in North Dakota, South Dakota, Nebraska, Colorado, Wyoming, and Montana.  . 

Bruce did you ever develop intensive once over grazing systems that provide 11 months rest and recovery on these Federal grazing lands? How about a rotational grazing system with several small paddocks with a centralized water source to better manage grass and improve it steadily year after year?

Can you show us links to systems that you developed and implemented on these Federal lands?

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RSL Said:
 Hunt_Fish31 Said:

 If you put everything on the table.  In the 70s and 80s very few if any were tile draining their fields.  Wetlands were not being drained.  Windbreaks were being planted, not torn up and most farms were true family farms.  I grew up on a family farm that is currently being controlled by family for hunting.

There were so many more farmers that were very conservation minded, they new that taking care of the land was critical in leaving the farm in better shape than when they started.  You might find a farmstead on every section of land.  Now there are farms so big that they might control a whole township.  And the thinking has gone from conservation of their farm to maximum profits.  They have to pay for huge tractors, huge combines, and huge mortgage payments.  Just a matter of fact.  And any threat to their current way of life is going to be challenged.

Getting access to subsidized crop insurance is important now, as opposed to getting any type of conservation payment.  

I am not sure there is a balance that is even possible.  You are getting a good picture of both extremes (current farmers and current wildlife groups)  They both think they are both right, and they both are wrong.  I would rather see 5 pass that might bring farmers to the table as opposed to it falling and the conservation battle suffer even more.

Let's see - I farm 36 sections and can combine 200 acres a day … so I can get my crop off in (36 x 640 acres / by 200 = 115.2 days!  Yah, just short of 4 months.  REALLY!

Yeah you never see 6-10 combines going at one time.

Lots of custom cominers going across the country too.

I know of several "farms" that are over 25,000 acres.

Neat

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eyexer Said:

Fritz the Cat Said:

eyexer Said:
us taxpayers subsidize the shit out of ag and all they want to do is tell us to F off.  gotta love it.

What in the hell has gottin' into you? All these years you have been spoofing tax and spend policies. This con amendment would create the six largest spending budget in the State.  

I'm voting for it out of spite to of our legislatures failures to address the issues out west and for hoarding billions of dollars of taxpayers money.  And for not truly addressing the skyrocketing property taxes in this state. 

Our city tax is going up to fund a middle school. Somehow we doubled in size which I would guess doubles the tax rate, but that still isnt enough...

I do not make a living in the patch, nor does any of my family, I do however seem to support the boom a GD bunch. Higher costs all around me and now even more is needed.

Neat

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johnr Said:

eyexer Said:

Fritz the Cat Said:

eyexer Said:
us taxpayers subsidize the shit out of ag and all they want to do is tell us to F off.  gotta love it.

What in the hell has gottin' into you? All these years you have been spoofing tax and spend policies. This con amendment would create the six largest spending budget in the State.  

I'm voting for it out of spite to of our legislatures failures to address the issues out west and for hoarding billions of dollars of taxpayers money.  And for not truly addressing the skyrocketing property taxes in this state. 

Our city tax is going up to fund a middle school. Somehow we doubled in size which I would guess doubles the tax rate, but that still isnt enough...

I do not make a living in the patch, nor does any of my family, I do however seem to support the boom a GD bunch. Higher costs all around me and now even more is needed.

williston has nearly tripled in size,property tax collections are probably close to ten times what they were ten years ago, but enrollment is up under 30% from ten years ago.  yet the schools are broke and need new schools.  even though the enrollment is less than at the peak of the last boom and they have more schools.

 

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Your credibility suffers bruce when you contradict yourself in one post.

Just telling it the way it is gst.  You should try it sometime.  They do take better care of their own land, but the abuse the federal land.

Have I ever developed a grazing plan.  Nope, but the biologist I worked for did and I gathered the date for that project since I have a degree in botany/range management.  As a matter of fact it went so well that the NDSU folks did it again at the Streeter Grazing Experiment Station.  What your talking about exactly what I have worked on.  Surprise.  Start searching the library at Northern Prairie Wildlife Research Center, then compare that to the NDSU research.  I can't remember the prof at NDSU.  I keep going to call him Bob Barker, but that was a game show host.  I'll remember it yet. 

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Plainsman Said:

Your credibility suffers bruce when you contradict yourself in one post.

Just telling it the way it is gst.  You should try it sometime.  They do take better care of their own land, but the abuse the federal land.

Have I ever developed a grazing plan.  Nope,

But yet you malign producers that do and try to insinuate there is no one in agriculture leading the way implementing and creating innovative conservation practices.

Credibility Bruce.

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Plainsman quote from Nodak

 Nelson Mandela was a murdering thug, but somehow that has been lost to history. Today they are killing the farmers, but doing nothing with tbe land. They are more interested in killing than eating. Let them face the conseque ces of thier actions.



Seems to me you want to do the same to North Dakota

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 No I want to conserve a small portion of North Dakota for all our great grandchildren to enjoy.

aba Said:
Plainsman quote from Nodak

 Nelson Mandela was a murdering thug, but somehow that has been lost to history. Today they are killing the farmers, but doing nothing with tbe land. They are more interested in killing than eating. Let them face the conseque ces of thier actions.



Seems to me you want to do the same to North Dakota

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I received my second call today from the measure 5 people as well as a flyer in the mail.  They stated that I may have received a call from the oil industry who has spent 1 million against this measure.  The caller stated that they were only calling to refute the scare tactics by the oil industry and that it would not take money away from schools or land away from farmers, but that it would create parks and protect our water supply.  They then asked me how I would vote, and I told them I already had told the first caller how I would vote and then I asked them how much they had spent.  The caller then hung up on me. 

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 They hung before u stepped up on the soap box and insulted them.

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Wow Von Kaiser, I was only reporting what happened.  So you know me and know that I would have insulted them?  I also thought I was taking a call from Sam's Club as that is what my caller ID said.  I wouldn't have bothered even answering it otherwise. 

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 My bad i thought i was responding to gst

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 I just received the call and i asked them if they thought the measure would help hunters.  They said probably not!  These people backing this dont want hunting to be legal or help hunters!  Vote No!

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 9 pages of blah blah blah from FBOs top political advisors. Blah blah blah.

 

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 I got faith in u guys to keep this one going for a few more weeks. Good luck!

 

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