Netflix Documentary (s)

I am an avid Netflix Documentary watcher, and I saw one lastnight called Religulious by Bill Maher. I know religion is a touchy subject, but hoyl smokes, does this ever bring some light to a very taboo topic. I recommend watching it.

Has anyone seen any other good ones? Street Thief is another really good one!

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one simple question for anyone wishing to answer it.
 
Why the concern over someones beleif in a greater power or fatih in something more than what can be proven in a lab?

I mean I get the obvio0us when it leads to things that detiment people and society, but why hammer someone simply for a faith in a higher power?

I could introduce you to people that are as highly educated and knowledgable as anyone on here that have a very strong faith in a greater power, these are not radical or irrational people, they go to the doctor when they need to give money to research and developement thru science ect...

But every Sunday they go to church and take comfort in their lives and their faith. So why the need to force your beleifs onto these people?

Why is forcing your beleifs onto someone any better than that "nut job" trying to force theirs onto you?

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gst Said:
one simple question for anyone wishing to answer it.
 
Why the concern over someones beleif in a greater power or fatih in something more than what can be proven in a lab?

I mean I get the obvio0us when it leads to things that detiment people and society, but why hammer someone simply for a faith in a higher power?

I could introduce you to people that are as highly educated and knowledgable as anyone on here that have a very strong faith in a greater power, these are not radical or irrational people, they go to the doctor when they need to give money to research and developement thru science ect...

But every Sunday they go to church and take comfort in their lives and their faith. So why the need to force your beleifs onto these people?

Why is forcing your beleifs onto someone any better than that "nut job" trying to force theirs onto you?

I'm about on page 5 so far and I haven't seen anyone "forcing beliefs" on anyone.  Maybe I'm not as sensitive as some I guess?

If god didn't want us to eat animals....he wouldn't have made them out of food.

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mauserG33-40 Said:

Jarudy Said:

Plainsman Said:

We could debate for another 100 years and get nowhere.  I don't care o debate this anymore, but for those whose faith may have been rattled a little I want to tell you a story.
Guess where I was yesterday?  Well life is full of coincidence, or was it coincidence.  I went to the civic center in Jamestown.  A biologist from Kruger National Park in Africa was speaking.  I thought the guy may have some very interesting life stories since his father was a bush pilot for the Zulu people.  Well he was speaking on the pillars of evolution and why science now tells us Darwin's theory doesn't work.  Coincidence?

Anyway, he keeps up more with the literature than I do since I am retired.  If some of you are not familiar Darwin based his theory on finches.  Every island had finches specific to that island.  The theory was they were isolated and as they adapted and added to their genetic diversity they changed visibly. 

You all know a story or two that you have heard on the news about some rapist being set free because of our ability to now process genetic evidence and it turns out the guy was innocent.  I'm sure you have heard one or two stories like that.  Like that scientists have now looked at those finches.  The truth is what they call the large ground finch on one island is considered the genetic matriarch of all the finches.  The finches on other islands do not have adapted/added genetic information they have reduced information.  Just the opposite of Darwin's theory.  As we breed dogs we do not breed new information into them.  Like the finch all that genetic information is already within them. 

The guy who spoke yesterday was Mike Snavely.  He presented a half dozen or more points that debunks evolution.  He agreed that religion should not be taught in science classes because it's not science.  He also said that if they are going to teach evolution they should teach it correctly.  If you have been taught evolution in a public school in the last 30 years you have perhaps not been taught correctly.  If you magic key is a billion years it's no key at all. 

Yes, he went through the big bang and everything.  That can also be torn to shreds.  In that theory everything is moving outward as it would in an explosion.   All you have to do is ignore all the things moving in the wrong direction.   He had some nice Hubble telescope pictures and covered information I can't even remember, but I did buy the video. 

Find any peer reviewed publication that states evolution is wrong and/or provides an alternative mechanism. You wont find it, plain and simple. Please, please do your own research before spouting off falsities.

You better look out Janrudy old Plainsman will be comparimg you to Mahmound Admadinejah,asking you if your turbin is ti tight,   As far as spouting off falsities he has pages of them on Nodak.

And what exactly did that comment accomplish MO mauser?

If god didn't want us to eat animals....he wouldn't have made them out of food.

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crfisherman Said:
Multi,
i admit i'm only up to pg 6 on this thread.  but i wanted to know if you can prove you went to work on March 20th this year scientificly? 

Haha....uhhh???....ummmm....well uhhh....I was punched in.....

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Oh, it may not be forcing unless people don't want to be labeled backwards by society.  Every time I read a debate like this the evolution group usually looses patience sooner or later and imply that those who do not believe are sub intelligent.

Evolution not people attacks the faith of those who are religious.  If that religion is Christian, Muslim, Hindu, whatever.  Liberals will be more tolerant of all those with the exception of Christian.  For some reason that bothers people a lot.  I suppose that's because they are most familiar with that.  Most religions have moral standards and that bothers many people.  I would expect no one on here, but I know some that want to live their life any way they please and Christians offend them even if they say nothing.  Just their existence offends them.  

gst had a good point though.  Why does one person having faith bother others so much?  The original post talked about Religulous which is combing religion and ridiculous.  I seen the trailer when the movie came out.  Maher is very intolerant of Christians.  I have watched him knock them often.  He sort of pulled a Jay Leno when he has J walking.  Go out on the street and ask all these question.  Remember when he asked who attacked at Pearl Harbor?  I would guess many said Japan, but he showed the teacher that said aaaaah France?????  Question 20 people and put the most radical in your movie is what I think Maher did. 

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crfisherman Said:
Multi,
i admit i'm only up to pg 6 on this thread.  but i wanted to know if you can prove you went to work on March 20th this year scientificly? 

Haha....uhhh???....ummmm....well uhhh....I was punched in.....



Is being punched in "scientific"?  maybe you had someone else punch you in. 

My point is; you can’t prove scientifically you were at work but you can use legal evidence to prove it.   Science doesn’t prove history, it can only support the claims made.   So, No, you can’t prove by science Jesus rose from the grave but I bet if you took a legal look at the history, put it before a judge, there would be enough evidence to prove it. 

 Live like you'll die tomorrow,
Die knowing you'll live forever.

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johnr Said:
If I evolved from a monkey, then why do we still have monkeys?
Some of us where lucky enough to evolve and other monkeys just didnt?
How about now, can a monkey mate with a human?

sorry john, I'm not picking on you, you just posted something that caught my attention.

This is a common misconception, that evolution works in a straight line.  evolution "branches" into different directions.  one "monkey" as you put it doesn't evolve, but a group of monkeys that has become separated from its original population that may experience different climates and now has an isolated gene pool will build off of those genes and any mutations that may occur within that population.  evolution isn't necesarily a progression or an improvement, but instead a change or changes that are passed generation to generation.

some of these branches end in an extinction, never to pass those traits along ever again, and other branches split many many times giving rise to a multitude of species, like the pictures of the skinks I posted earlier.

and technically, you evolved from (im assuming your caucasian) ancient europeans, and they evolved from cromagnon, and a half dozen "links" later to one of 5 groups of early man from central africa, and they evolved from, and so on....theres alot of steps between you and a chimplike animal, but your DNA is more similar to a chimp's than the DNA between those 4 lizards I posted that someone informed me were the same species.

you see we didn't evolve from a chimp.  Chimps were on the same branch as us (no pun intended) a few million years ago and we branched off in one direction changing along the way to become homo sapiens and they branched off in another.

evolution is not a constant with rules that state this group will evolve and change X amount of times.  some species branch off many times and evolve very quickly and other species hardly evolve at all over hundreds of millions of years, like crocodiles for example.  crocs are almost impossible to kill, resistant to disease, can go for over a year without food, temperature tollerant, etc etc.  therefore most of them get to breed giving the crocodile a very diverse and large gene pool meaning a small mutation or change will still get passed on but not focused and develop to change or branch the species into another because it will just get blended back with the dominant traits in the rest of that population.

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crfisherman Said:

crfisherman Said:
Multi,
i admit i'm only up to pg 6 on this thread.  but i wanted to know if you can prove you went to work on March 20th this year scientificly? 

Haha....uhhh???....ummmm....well uhhh....I was punched in.....



Is being punched in "scientific"?  maybe you had someone else punch you in. 

My point is; you can’t prove scientifically you were at work but you can use legal evidence to prove it.   Science doesn’t prove history, it can only support the claims made.   So, No, you can’t prove by science Jesus rose from the grave but I bet if you took a legal look at the history, put it before a judge, there would be enough evidence to prove it. 

Oh that wasn't a joke...well then smart ass, go to srt and compare the IP address to which I was logged in from....BOOM!....sorry, I just wish creation vs. evolution was that easy to settle.

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It's odd that people talk in a very positive manner about how evolution works, yet it can not be proven.  Often people will say yes it can, but if that was true it would no longer be theory.  I think science is currently proving the theory wrong.  I think evolution is old school, and new technology will emerge that proves it wrong.   Of course knowing how arrogant our society is they will think they have a positive answer then too.  It's like ancient Rome thought there would never be a society as knowledgeable or as advanced as them.  I would guess there were societies like that before them, and societies that will come after us.  They all think they have the answers.  I sure wish I had all the answers, but I don't, and I don't think anyone does.  I doubt we have 1% of the understanding of even our own world.

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crfisherman Said:

crfisherman Said:
Multi,
i admit i'm only up to pg 6 on this thread.  but i wanted to know if you can prove you went to work on March 20th this year scientificly? 

Haha....uhhh???....ummmm....well uhhh....I was punched in.....



Is being punched in "scientific"?  maybe you had someone else punch you in. 

My point is; you can’t prove scientifically you were at work but you can use legal evidence to prove it.   Science doesn’t prove history, it can only support the claims made.   So, No, you can’t prove by science Jesus rose from the grave but I bet if you took a legal look at the history, put it before a judge, there would be enough evidence to prove it. 

Oh that wasn't a joke...well then smart ass, go to srt and compare the IP address to which I was logged in from....BOOM!....sorry, I just wish creation vs. evolution was that easy to settle.
 

again, is this scientific or legal eveidence?  maybe you were out fishing and had one of your kids log in for you... lol...

agian historical events cannot be proven using science, legal evidence is what is needed.  check out Simon Greenleaf  School of Law.

 Live like you'll die tomorrow,
Die knowing you'll live forever.

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Okay, to keep westnodaks sensibilities over verbs from getting offended I will use a term other than "force".

Multi, why is it so important that others "accept" your veiws any more than they do their own?

Why is it you seem to make light of those that choose to put their faith in something more than a tangible thing you can "drill a hole in"?
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gst Said:
Okay, to keep westnodaks sensibilities over verbs from getting offended I will use a term other than "force".

Multi, why is it so important that others "accept" your veiws any more than they do their own?

Why is it you seem to make light of those that choose to put their faith in something more than a tangible thing you can "drill a hole in"?

Haha, I don't think I'm the one getting offended here gst.

If god didn't want us to eat animals....he wouldn't have made them out of food.

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crfisherman Said:

crfisherman Said:
Multi,
i admit i'm only up to pg 6 on this thread.  but i wanted to know if you can prove you went to work on March 20th this year scientificly? 

Haha....uhhh???....ummmm....well uhhh....I was punched in.....



Is being punched in "scientific"?  maybe you had someone else punch you in. 

My point is; you can’t prove scientifically you were at work but you can use legal evidence to prove it.   Science doesn’t prove history, it can only support the claims made.   So, No, you can’t prove by science Jesus rose from the grave but I bet if you took a legal look at the history, put it before a judge, there would be enough evidence to prove it. 


Not really. Considering whether or not Jesus even existed is still debated, let alone that he rose from the grave.

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Meatball Said:
  Multi If thats what you call proof, a few hundred pieces of bone, a few ape skulls, wow You guys get desperate, I am telling you, we are not monkeys, we are mermens.
   It comes down to this, men think they are pretty smart, there is no way there could be a God, we are the smartest most powerful creatures on this earth. I just love your pride, all of your smart comments, maybe you are a god, if you live a few thousand years you might evolve into one.

I wouldn't be surprized to find out a thousand years from now that people were worshipping Lady Gaga or Bieber as gods.

I like being a Bible thumper, at least I dont have anything common with commies, or hitler.

Hitler wasn't an atheist.

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again, is this scientific or legal eveidence?  maybe you were out fishing and had one of your kids log in for you... lol...
 

My kids logged in for me, at my work, and typed all that with a 2nd grade education?  prove it right, or prove it wrong, its a win win for me.  either my kids are flippin super geniuses, or I was factually and scientifically beyond the shadow of a doubt at work.  and I have several whitnesses that will testify, I was at work, all day, "dickin off on the computer, while they worked their asses off" (Thats how the "whitnesses" would put it)

for the record, not that anyone still following this thread is concerned with my beliefs.  I believe that Jesus never even existed and is just another figure used and created by man to celebrate the suns return for the new year which was copied, adjusted, and pasted from pagan guidelines, who of course was born of a virgin on dec 25th, that performed miracles, had 12 deciples, was crucified, resurected 3 days later blah blah blah just like dozens of other figures through out history.  research the backrounds of the following and tell me if there's any similarities...

Horus
Attis
Krishna
Dionysus
Mithra
Osiris

It's odd that people talk in a very positive manner about how evolution works, yet it can not be proven.  Often people will say yes it can, but if that was true it would no longer be theory.  I think science is currently proving the theory wrong.  I think evolution is old school, and new technology will emerge that proves it wrong.   Of course knowing how arrogant our society is they will think they have a positive answer then too.  It's like ancient Rome thought there would never be a society as knowledgeable or as advanced as them.  I would guess there were societies like that before them, and societies that will come after us.  They all think they have the answers.  I sure wish I had all the answers, but I don't, and I don't think anyone does.  I doubt we have 1% of the understanding of even our own world.

well I think, and I doubt, and I think, and I thought, my opinion is, and you can't prove it,   

what do you really need for proof?  David copperfield to turn a fish into a goose? because I keep hearing about jesus turning water into wine, but I put hard cash on copperfield turning that fish into a goose at a hotel in vegas first.  You keep talking about faith while saying I have no "proof"...what do you need for proof? and where is yours? other than "just close your eyes and have faith"  you (just like every other person of religion or "faith") always demands science to prove everything, when the entire side of your argument has never proven anything...ever.  just faith...you gotta have faith, fa, faith, you gotta have fa, fa, fa, fa, faith.

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This is so 2011 to me. What is lost is that some theologists claim that this is our last year. Read every post and will not use the box in the box. Think for myself. Used the dodged kitty just because. Stated that either the sun will fall down or we will kill each other. If the sun doesn't fall down then we are left with ourselves. Jesus can't save us from us. That leaves us. So if we fight ourselves...;who wins. This is an isuue on morals and y'all took it 14 pages. There should be a unified front if indeed their is a 2013. Religion and Politics have taken the place of common sense. Wish we could get back to a good ol' bar fight or two kids fighting after school just because one said his dad was tougher than your dad. Gonna go post on smelt and spawn now. Hope to get beat up.

One step at a time...Be careful.

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My kids logged in for me, at my work, and typed all that with a 2nd grade education?  prove it right, or prove it wrong, its a win win for me.  either my kids are flippin super geniuses, or I was factually and scientifically beyond the shadow of a doubt at work.  and I have several whitnesses that will testify, I was at work, all day, "dickin off on the computer, while they worked their asses off" (Thats how the "whitnesses" would put it)

 

From what i read on here you are smart so i would guess your kids are too.

but that is it, your co-workers are not scientific evidence but legal evidence of you being at work.  they testify to the history. 
same thing is true of those who testify of Jesus.  they saw the events, they walked with Him and if he didn't raise from the dead those in Jerusalam only had to show the body.

 Live like you'll die tomorrow,
Die knowing you'll live forever.

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OH and for those who don't know, Jesus was not born on Dec 25, that is just when it is celebrated.   Mostlikely He was born in the Spring, April-May timeframe. 

 Live like you'll die tomorrow,
Die knowing you'll live forever.

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wstnodak Said:

gst Said:
Okay, to keep westnodaks sensibilities over verbs from getting offended I will use a term other than "force".

Multi, why is it so important that others "accept" your veiws any more than they do their own?

Why is it you seem to make light of those that choose to put their faith in something more than a tangible thing you can "drill a hole in"?

Haha, I don't think I'm the one getting offended here gst.

Not offended wst, I have said science has made amazing discoveries and contributions to society,  simply curious why it is so important for a few people on here that they "dispell" everyones faith based beleifs and have these people "accept" theirs?

For as many posts as has been made on here, no one seems to wish to answer the questions asked in the above quote.

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crfisherman Said:
OH and for those who don't know, Jesus was not born on Dec 25, that is just when it is celebrated.   Mostlikely He was born in the Spring, April-May timeframe. 

 This is true.  In the story of Jesus' birth it is said that the wisemen traveled to Bethlehem following the North Star and found baby Jesus in a manjor. Joseph and Mary were in Bethlehem for the census, wait for it,......... which was in the spring .

Nearly all historians agree that Jesus was a real person.

Hunt Hard and NEVER GIVE UP

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 Here is a good video that shows the similarities between many of the major religions. It is pretty eye opening... 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hg2nB5mrZbE 

multi-species-angler Said:

 

for the record, not that anyone still following this thread is concerned with my beliefs.  I believe that Jesus never even existed and is just another figure used and created by man to celebrate the suns return for the new year which was copied, adjusted, and pasted from pagan guidelines, who of course was born of a virgin on dec 25th, that performed miracles, had 12 deciples, was crucified, resurected 3 days later blah blah blah just like dozens of other figures through out history.  research the backrounds of the following and tell me if there's any similarities...

Horus
Attis
Krishna
Dionysus
Mithra
Osiris

I have a bad feeling that whenever a lesbian looks at me they think “That’s why I’m not a heterosexual”. -George Costanza

I was in the pool! I was in the pool! You don’t understand! There was shrinkage!   -George Costanza

You know if you take everything I’ve ever done in my entire life and condense it down into one day, it looks decent. -George Costanza

Don’t insult me, my friend. Remember who you’re talking to. No one’s a bigger idiot than me. -George Costanza

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There was a saying in WWII that there are no atheists in fox holes.  When your young you think your ten feet tall and bullet proof.  It's odd how age changes ones mind.   I have been unfortunate enough to be around a number of people in death.  My father was very calm and died praying.  My mother was unconscious.  My grandfather simply fell out of his chair at breakfast.  However my well educated atheist friends went to their grave screaming.  I'll keep my faith thank you.  

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Plainsman Said:
There was a saying in WWII that there are no atheists in fox holes.  When your young you think your ten feet tall and bullet proof.  It's odd how age changes ones mind.   I have been unfortunate enough to be around a number of people in death.  My father was very calm and died praying.  My mother was unconscious.  My grandfather simply fell out of his chair at breakfast.  However my well educated atheist friends went to their grave screaming.  I'll keep my faith thank you.  

Kicking, and screaming all the way. No one fears death like an atheist. 

Like I said before, atheism isn't realy a choice.  it simply means I don't believe, I have been proven otherwise, and even in the face of a horrible death I know any "prayers" I come up with, to whichever figure I decide to pray to will fall on deaf ears.

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 I was hoping no one would bring up the old nonsense about no atheists in foxholes!!
there Are plenty of them in foxholes, in fact there is a big military organization of atheists and agnostics.
Also each time this gets quoted anle supports the argument that religion is the "opium of the masses!   Just like dying people cling to it only when it's needed.  Noyhing wrong with that, but in medicine you see it all the time.

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I am a science teacher who teaches evolution (On my prep period right now!).  Probably one of my favorite things to teach and discuss.  I have went from Christian to near Atheist to having an honest melding of Christianity and our objective measurements in science.  Science does an excellent job of explaining the changes that have occured on our planet - you won't convince me otherwise.  Couple things we don't do real well with yet: Unifying Quantum Mechanics and Classical Mechanics; and the jumpstart of life.  The latter of which has brought me back to think there must be a higher power.  Again I consider myself Christian, but everyone has to see the humor in this.  (I am a part-time Pastafarian) http://www.venganza.org/about/

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   I am sorry Multi. but I think this world is proof enough that God created it  and it does say in the 1st chapter of the Bible.
  You are the one saying this all came together from nothing, we dont have to prove anything. Just to say that this world just happened, from nothing, NOTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
   BANG, 3.378 TRILLION YEARS AGO, there was nothing, and then something happened, after this this one thing collided with this wachumacallit and poof there you are, bang, boom, pow.  Maybe batman was around.
   You guys have more faith then most christians, The one thing I love about science is you guys can make it up as you go, just like global warming or the next ace age.
 

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multi-species-angler Said:

johnr Said:
If I evolved from a monkey, then why do we still have monkeys?
Some of us where lucky enough to evolve and other monkeys just didnt?
How about now, can a monkey mate with a human?

sorry john, I'm not picking on you, you just posted something that caught my attention.

This is a common misconception, that evolution works in a straight line.  evolution "branches" into different directions.  one "monkey" as you put it doesn't evolve, but a group of monkeys that has become separated from its original population that may experience different climates and now has an isolated gene pool will build off of those genes and any mutations that may occur within that population.  evolution isn't necesarily a progression or an improvement, but instead a change or changes that are passed generation to generation.

some of these branches end in an extinction, never to pass those traits along ever again, and other branches split many many times giving rise to a multitude of species, like the pictures of the skinks I posted earlier.

and technically, you evolved from (im assuming your caucasian) ancient europeans, and they evolved from cromagnon, and a half dozen "links" later to one of 5 groups of early man from central africa, and they evolved from, and so on....theres alot of steps between you and a chimplike animal, but your DNA is more similar to a chimp's than the DNA between those 4 lizards I posted that someone informed me were the same species.

you see we didn't evolve from a chimp.  Chimps were on the same branch as us (no pun intended) a few million years ago and we branched off in one direction changing along the way to become homo sapiens and they branched off in another.

evolution is not a constant with rules that state this group will evolve and change X amount of times.  some species branch off many times and evolve very quickly and other species hardly evolve at all over hundreds of millions of years, like crocodiles for example.  crocs are almost impossible to kill, resistant to disease, can go for over a year without food, temperature tollerant, etc etc.  therefore most of them get to breed giving the crocodile a very diverse and large gene pool meaning a small mutation or change will still get passed on but not focused and develop to change or branch the species into another because it will just get blended back with the dominant traits in the rest of that population.

No need to think I would think that you are picking on me, I am not a sensative guy that would be offended when someone gives comment to my posts.
I still have a different view of all of this, even after reading 12 pages.
I leave you all with one of my favorite quotes.
God Bless America.

Neat

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duckduckgoose Said:
I am a science teacher who teaches evolution (On my prep period right now!).  Probably one of my favorite things to teach and discuss.  I have went from Christian to near Atheist to having an honest melding of Christianity and our objective measurements in science.  Science does an excellent job of explaining the changes that have occured on our planet - you won't convince me otherwise.  Couple things we don't do real well with yet: Unifying Quantum Mechanics and Classical Mechanics; and the jumpstart of life.  The latter of which has brought me back to think there must be a higher power.  Again I consider myself Christian, but everyone has to see the humor in this.  (I am a part-time Pastafarian) http://www.venganza.org/about/

...again, just because we don't know, and havn't discovered something yet doesn't mean we get to decide it must be some "higher power".  a thousand years ago we were at the same impass about the world being round, and then about germs, and so on. Now we're at the big bang and the exact moment chemical becomes life.  How many scientific discoveries and proofs must be made before one finally realizes a 2000 year old collection of stories copied from previous worships and beliefs of other cultures (mostly egyptian) who based their beliefs on things they saw in the sky and couldn't explain or understand while contemplating their own existence, how many proofs and discoveries does it take before one finally tosses that old book back in the fiction section of the library.

even hardcore thumpers like meatball know the earth is round and germs & microbes make you sick, although he still thinks the grand canyon was made with god's payloader, he still believes in 10 times more scientific fact and evidence than average thumpers did 500 years ago.

with earth getting smaller every day, and scientific discoveries being made and shared instantly on the web, by cell phone, on facebook, etc etc. this is the information age and more and more people every minute of the day are starting to question this whole "man in the sky" bit, churches and religions around the globe are struggling for new members and the truth is, in time humans will do away with religion and it will simply be studied as a part of our history.

Oh and I predict that on Dec 21st 2012, a skank named snooki might have a baby and the rest of us will get off work, have supper, watch TV, go to sleep, then wake up and enjoy the weekend and foget all about the Mayans on monday.

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bobkat Said:
 I was hoping no one would bring up the old nonsense about no atheists in foxholes!!
there Are plenty of them in foxholes, in fact there is a big military organization of atheists and agnostics.
Also each time this gets quoted anle supports the argument that religion is the "opium of the masses!   Just like dying people cling to it only when it's needed.  Noyhing wrong with that, but in medicine you see it all the time.

in church several weeks ago the sermon was about how "faith sees best in the dark", without going into the overall sermon, i think that explains why what i bolded happens. many people don't feel the need to have faith when life is great. i have been reading along the past 14pgs and felt this was a perfect time to post this. this is part of why i personally go to church is i can learn something and then apply it to my life. there are may other ways i can do this, but this is only 1 reason that i attend church on a very regular basis.

i have enjoyed reading everyones thoughts and i think this is good for people to think about.

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gst Said:
Not offended wst, I have said science has made amazing discoveries and contributions to society,  simply curious why it is so important for a few people on here that they "dispell" everyones faith based beleifs and have these people "accept" theirs?

For as many posts as has been made on here, no one seems to wish to answer the questions asked in the above quote.

multi, science, would you care to answer the posed question.

Why is it so important that others "accept" your veiws any more than they do their own?

Why is it you seem to make light of those that choose to put their faith in something more than a tangible thing you can "drill a hole in"?
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multi-species-angler Said:

duckduckgoose Said:
I am a science teacher who teaches evolution (On my prep period right now!).  Probably one of my favorite things to teach and discuss.  I have went from Christian to near Atheist to having an honest melding of Christianity and our objective measurements in science.  Science does an excellent job of explaining the changes that have occured on our planet - you won't convince me otherwise.  Couple things we don't do real well with yet: Unifying Quantum Mechanics and Classical Mechanics; and the jumpstart of life.  The latter of which has brought me back to think there must be a higher power.  Again I consider myself Christian, but everyone has to see the humor in this.  (I am a part-time Pastafarian) http://www.venganza.org/about/

...again, just because we don't know, and havn't discovered something yet doesn't mean we get to decide it must be some "higher power".  a thousand years ago we were at the same impass about the world being round, and then about germs, and so on. Now we're at the big bang and the exact moment chemical becomes life.  How many scientific discoveries and proofs must be made before one finally realizes a 2000 year old collection of stories copied from previous worships and beliefs of other cultures (mostly egyptian) who based their beliefs on things they saw in the sky and couldn't explain or understand while contemplating their own existence, how many proofs and discoveries does it take before one finally tosses that old book back in the fiction section of the library.

even hardcore thumpers like meatball know the earth is round and germs & microbes make you sick, although he still thinks the grand canyon was made with god's payloader, he still believes in 10 times more scientific fact and evidence than average thumpers did 500 years ago.

with earth getting smaller every day, and scientific discoveries being made and shared instantly on the web, by cell phone, on facebook, etc etc. this is the information age and more and more people every minute of the day are starting to question this whole "man in the sky" bit, churches and religions around the globe are struggling for new members and the truth is, in time humans will do away with religion and it will simply be studied as a part of our history.

Oh and I predict that on Dec 21st 2012, a skank named snooki might have a baby and the rest of us will get off work, have supper, watch TV, go to sleep, then wake up and enjoy the weekend and foget all about the Mayans on monday.

Or perhaps something like what happend to make species extinct will again happen and man will be all but wiped of the face of the earth and the ones left to start will once again be dependant on thier faith rather than science????????

Or perhaps the nuclear weaponry designed by man and science will cause a worldwide nuclear appocalypse and the people that are left will look at "science" in a new light and will turn to faith????

Are we so arrogant in our beleif we understand all things that we are now predicting the future as well? 
 
Multi why the smartass comments towards people that beleive someting other than what you do?

I mean from your snide little comments it is starting to appear it may be more than just your acceptance of science that is driving your participation in the discussion.

Why is it so important people "accept" your veiws?

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I'm not one to judge.  But I am pretty sure Bill Maher is going to burn in hell.

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Gst, I will explain.
Welcome to the new age religion of humanism, these people are the educated enlightened ones in which we are nothing but fantasy land snake charmers.
People believe what they want, I like to tell people the good news of Jesus Christ, and what He has done in my life, just like they teach fishmonkeyman theory, and you debate them and they always come back and mock me as weak or crazy or just plain ignorant,stupid. And thats fine I am just a man. But when they mock my Saviour.  Thats when I have had enough.

Dont you just love this new age.

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skeeterguy Said:
I'm not one to judge.  But I am pretty sure Bill Maher is going to burn in hell.

AMEN!!!!

Hunt Hard and NEVER GIVE UP

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buckmaster81 Said:

skeeterguy Said:
I'm not one to judge.  But I am pretty sure Bill Maher is going to burn in hell.

AMEN!!!!

I second that

Neat

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  Its too bad, but its true.

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Meatball Said:
   I am sorry Multi. but I think this world is proof enough that God created it  and it does say in the 1st chapter of the Bible.
  You are the one saying this all came together from nothing, we dont have to prove anything. Just to say that this world just happened, from nothing, NOTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
   BANG, 3.378 TRILLION YEARS AGO, there was nothing, and then something happened, after this this one thing collided with this wachumacallit and poof there you are, bang, boom, pow.  Maybe batman was around.
   You guys have more faith then most christians, The one thing I love about science is you guys can make it up as you go, just like global warming or the next ace age.
 

Where did God come from? How was he created? Why do believers assume it is proof enough, or valid enough to say that god always existed. Yet, it's invalid to say that energy and matter have always existed?

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Personally, I could really care less what everyone else on here believes. However, it can get a little frustrating when scientific proof is presented and it is disputed because of what some religion says.

I was raised catholic, put through catholic schools, etc... I used to have the exact same views on here as every other hardcore christian. After attending the U of M, getting a biology degree, performing years of research and finally getting my doctorate, my views have changed a lot. I no longer believe in religion. However, I am not exactly sure if I believe in the big bang theory or intelligent design. This is mainly because it is really difficult for me to wrap my head around the idea of the big bang. I have stated before that the big bang can be mathematically shown, but no one will ever be able to prove this.

Why do I no longer believe in religion?
1. Watch the video that I posted http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hg2nB5mrZbE After watching this, how can you truly believe that christianity is the "correct" religion. It is basically the most current story that has been passed on for centuries.
2. Most of the christians that I know think that just because they go to church they will be saved. I'm not sure how people can believe that just because they go to church they can still be sh*tty human beings. In my personal experience, my friends that are not christians are far kinder, more generous, less judgemental, etc... This is what all christians should follow since this is what they preach.
3. A big turning point for me was a paleontology course. It is pretty difficult to deny that evolution happened when looking at the fossil record. I definitely do not believe that humans were created in their current form. As I stated, I may believe in intelligent design, but only in the intelligent design of the earliest lifeforms.

I think religion has its place. Many people that are having difficulty in their lives find comfort with religion and it also helps others steer their lives in a better direction. Do I believe that you need to attend church to have an "afterlife/heaven/etc"? NO WAY. Again, this is nearly impossible to logic out. That would be pretty cruel of god to selectively banish people to hell because they were muslim rather than christian.

I'm not trying to make anybody become agnostic or atheist, but it can be frustrating when certain religious individuals have little to no capability to think for themselves. I've said this numerous times on here, but if you truly believe in god and religion you should use your god-given gifts to the fullest. This includes using the full capability of your intellect rather than suppressing it with faith.

gst Said:

gst Said:
Not offended wst, I have said science has made amazing discoveries and contributions to society,  simply curious why it is so important for a few people on here that they "dispell" everyones faith based beleifs and have these people "accept" theirs?

For as many posts as has been made on here, no one seems to wish to answer the questions asked in the above quote.

multi, science, would you care to answer the posed question.

Why is it so important that others "accept" your veiws any more than they do their own?

Why is it you seem to make light of those that choose to put their faith in something more than a tangible thing you can "drill a hole in"?

I have a bad feeling that whenever a lesbian looks at me they think “That’s why I’m not a heterosexual”. -George Costanza

I was in the pool! I was in the pool! You don’t understand! There was shrinkage!   -George Costanza

You know if you take everything I’ve ever done in my entire life and condense it down into one day, it looks decent. -George Costanza

Don’t insult me, my friend. Remember who you’re talking to. No one’s a bigger idiot than me. -George Costanza

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Or perhaps something like what happend to make species extinct will again happen and man will be all but wiped of the face of the earth and the ones left to start will once again be dependant on thier faith rather than science????????

If something like this was to happen, It would probably be mostly the the extremely religious that perished do to the fact that many of them, In a apocalyptic scenario, would chose prayer rather than medicine, science, and modern technology to keep them alive.

Or perhaps the nuclear weaponry designed by man and science will cause a worldwide nuclear appocalypse and the people that are left will look at "science" in a new light and will turn to faith????

I doubt it, since scientific man only created it. The apocalypse would likely happen because the religious man actually used it in a war fueled by religious hatred. I would hope that what's left of humanity would be smarter than going right back to the very thing that caused the destruction.

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How do you explain your ability to be intelligent?  Where does love come from?  Often times people lose their soul by the need for scientific evidence to prove God exists.  Some people think that everything has to make sense and everything must have an explanation for it to make sense.  Guess what?  Everything does not have to have a logical explanation.  I know this.  The Bible has been around longer than scientists.  Scientist talk of evolution but I have yet to see evollution.  Carbon dating is supposed to be a way to tell how old something is.  How sure are we of that?  Are we sure because a Scientist says so?  Was he there?  The apostles were there for the occasions recorded in the Bible.  They have seen the miracles.  Some people say "Well, where did God come from?"  Is it ok to say that he just was and is there?  I feel sorry for those who do not believe because when it comes down to it their life has no meaning.  I have known people that do not believe and from a social perspective some are really nice people.  Even though though that is said, they have no soul.  I'm not trying to offend anyone by saying that, but if you truly don't believe in God it should not offend you anyways.  I know the truth.  It does not need to be proven to me.  I see God at work every day.  Some people say "If God existed why would he let bad stuff happen, like people being killed or raped or let people die from cancer.  You see God gave us individuality and with that the ability to make our own choices.  Some people choose to do bad things.  Experiencing these bad things are the catalyst to guage good things.  No one would have a guage on good or bad, happiness or sorrow if you did not have the other to compare it to.  Sometimes people get cancer and die and it doesn't seem to make sense why(especially if they are a good person and wouldn't hurt a fly).  Did you ever think that it might be a gift from God to take this person home?  A gift to show you how much you love and care for this person by feeling the emotion and sadness that you feel simply because you love them?  You ever wonder if it is a gift from God that when somebody passes on, how it makes good people come together to support one another?  Those experiences give us the ability to see the grace of God in everyone.  For those of you that don't believe, I pray for you that you someday will.  Just look and you will see God every day.  If you don't choose to do so, well thats your choice.
God Bless

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skeeterguy Said:

1) How do you explain your ability to be intelligent? 

2) Where does love come from? 

3) The Bible has been around longer than scientists.
 
4) Scientist talk of evolution but I have yet to see evollution.  

5) The apostles were there for the occasions recorded in the Bible.  They have seen the miracles. 

1) The more intelligent human ancestors survived better than "idiots" so they had kids and the cycle repeats, very simple.

2) Ancient "humans" or precursors that loved their children/spouses/family had a higher rate of producing offspring aka having kids, and the cycle repeats, again so simple.

3) Guess what's older than the bible? Ancient religions that are easily dismissed as comedy. What makes your religion better than Egyptian/Ancient Greek beliefs? They're older, yet who practices those?

4) Your stupidiest comment made. Can you see god? Nope. Can you prove its there? Nope. So why do I believe in it, oh wait, I dont. NEVER SEEN EVOLUTION? Read up:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0966842X01021758
http://www.pnas.org/content/101/26/9786.short
http://jb.asm.org/content/187/7/2426.short
Before antibiotics, penicilin and methicillin (antibiotic) resistant bacteria didnt exisist in medicine. Now they are. Explain it. Oh wait, evolution does that.

5) Much of the new testament was written second hand aka they didnt see what happened. If I gave you medicine as a doctor and said that some guy 20 years ago told worked with no proof besides his word, would you believe it?

The problem is that people selectively apply religion and science. When someone's life is on the line, they want modern science.  Many other times the same modern science is ignored. That's the problem, hypocrites.

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However, it can get a little frustrating when scientific proof is presented and it is disputed because of what some religion says.

I guess I have a foot in both worlds.  The world of being a Christian and 36 years working in biology.  I know I will never convince anyone from my Christian standpoint so my choice was to show the weakness of the scientific "proof".  Try to understand there is  no proof or we would be talking about the law of evolution, not the theory of evolution.  Often those of the scientific persuasion get angry when you drop that on them, but it is the truth.
So the fact is if you choose to believe evolution that requires as much or more faith than for me to believe in Jesus.   I have the Bible that says he existed.  I have the Koran that I don't believe, but it attests to the life of Jesus it just thinks he was a profit.  I also have secular history.  So I guess if you t believe secular history but don't believe there was a man named Jesus you perhaps then don't believe there was a man named George Washington.

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 I feel sorry for those who do not believe because when it comes down to it their life has no meaning

How so? Atheists don't need god or the threat of hell as an excuse to do good.

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Plainsman Said:
Try to understand there is  no proof or we would be talking about the law of evolution, not the theory of evolution. 

You are no scientist. Forget what a theory is? 

Theory of Gravity
Modern Atomic Theory
Theories of Relativity
Bronsted Lowry Acid Base Theory
Circuit Theory
Valence Bond Theory
Theory of Evolution

All theories, all demonstrable currently. None are natural laws, all effect you. 36 years in biology my ass, read the first chapter of any college level scientific textbook.

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Plainsman Said:

However, it can get a little frustrating when scientific proof is presented and it is disputed because of what some religion says.

I guess I have a foot in both worlds.  The world of being a Christian and 36 years working in biology.  I know I will never convince anyone from my Christian standpoint so my choice was to show the weakness of the scientific "proof".  Try to understand there is  no proof or we would be talking about the law of evolution, not the theory of evolution.  Often those of the scientific persuasion get angry when you drop that on them, but it is the truth.
So the fact is if you choose to believe evolution that requires as much or more faith than for me to believe in Jesus.   I have the Bible that says he existed.  I have the Koran that I don't believe, but it attests to the life of Jesus it just thinks he was a profit.  I also have secular history.  So I guess if you t believe secular history but don't believe there was a man named Jesus you perhaps then don't believe there was a man named George Washington.

That is a luxury nonbelievers don't have. God is unfalsifiable. You can't truly debate it or find flaws. You can't prove god exists and you can't prove he doesn't. Just the same, you can't prove I don't have an invisible dog that can't be touched or heard.

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Science>Religion Said:
Personally, I could really care less what everyone else on here believes. However, it can get a little frustrating when scientific proof is presented and it is disputed because of what some religion says.

I was raised catholic, put through catholic schools, etc... I used to have the exact same views on here as every other hardcore christian. After attending the U of M, getting a biology degree, performing years of research and finally getting my doctorate, my views have changed a lot. I no longer believe in religion. However, I am not exactly sure if I believe in the big bang theory or intelligent design. This is mainly because it is really difficult for me to wrap my head around the idea of the big bang. I have stated before that the big bang can be mathematically shown, but no one will ever be able to prove this.

Why do I no longer believe in religion?
1. Watch the video that I posted http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hg2nB5mrZbE After watching this, how can you truly believe that christianity is the "correct" religion. It is basically the most current story that has been passed on for centuries.
2. Most of the christians that I know think that just because they go to church they will be saved. I'm not sure how people can believe that just because they go to church they can still be sh*tty human beings. In my personal experience, my friends that are not christians are far kinder, more generous, less judgemental, etc... This is what all christians should follow since this is what they preach.
3. A big turning point for me was a paleontology course. It is pretty difficult to deny that evolution happened when looking at the fossil record. I definitely do not believe that humans were created in their current form. As I stated, I may believe in intelligent design, but only in the intelligent design of the earliest lifeforms.

I think religion has its place. Many people that are having difficulty in their lives find comfort with religion and it also helps others steer their lives in a better direction. Do I believe that you need to attend church to have an "afterlife/heaven/etc"? NO WAY. Again, this is nearly impossible to logic out. That would be pretty cruel of god to selectively banish people to hell because they were muslim rather than christian.

I'm not trying to make anybody become agnostic or atheist, but it can be frustrating when certain religious individuals have little to no capability to think for themselves. I've said this numerous times on here, but if you truly believe in god and religion you should use your god-given gifts to the fullest. This includes using the full capability of your intellect rather than suppressing it with faith.

gst Said:

gst Said:
Not offended wst, I have said science has made amazing discoveries and contributions to society,  simply curious why it is so important for a few people on here that they "dispell" everyones faith based beleifs and have these people "accept" theirs?

For as many posts as has been made on here, no one seems to wish to answer the questions asked in the above quote.

multi, science, would you care to answer the posed question.

Why is it so important that others "accept" your veiws any more than they do their own?

Why is it you seem to make light of those that choose to put their faith in something more than a tangible thing you can "drill a hole in"?

I do agree with that.

Hunt Hard and NEVER GIVE UP

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 You can't prove god exists and you can't prove he doesn't. Just the same

Neither of us can prove our point.  I hope I made that  point a long time back.  That's why both require faith.

Theory of Gravity --- All theories

OK, I know I am forgetful but I thought I learned in third grade along time ago that it was the "law of gravity".

I believe society evolves.  See below

The more intelligent human ancestors survived better than "idiots" so they had kids and the cycle repeats, very simple.

That fits in very well with abortion.  I think those that care for their kids will keep them and pass on their "faith".   I believe those that kill their unborn children will follow the dinosaur into oblivion.  

Further: ) Ancient "humans" or precursors that loved their children/spouses/family had a higher rate of producing offspring aka having kids, and the cycle repeats, again so simple.
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Jarundy  says the more intelligent human acestors survived and had kids.

How in the heck were you born? 

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   Well said skeeterguy.
Jarundy I find alot of hate in you, but the one thing you dont call me is a hypocrite. I think you need to evolve.

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Jarudy Said:

Plainsman Said:
Try to understand there is  no proof or we would be talking about the law of evolution, not the theory of evolution. 

You are no scientist. Forget what a theory is? 

Theory of Gravity
Modern Atomic Theory
Theories of Relativity
Bronsted Lowry Acid Base Theory
Circuit Theory
Valence Bond Theory
Theory of Evolution

All theories, all demonstrable currently. None are natural laws, all effect you. 36 years in biology my ass, read the first chapter of any college level scientific textbook.

Oh yes Plainsman (Bruce Hansen was or is a biologist) 

http://www.npwrc.usgs.gov/resource/herps/funnel/index.htm

 

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