Nevada BLM actions background

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Hardwaterman Said:
I do not believe Bundy is right in his claims, I stated earlier that I did not think he was racist as well. In fairness to the issue I think it only right to post up this info because it makes his comments make a heck of a lot more sense. I will also applaud him for stating that change should be done peacefully as well.

Unedited Video Shows Bundy Making Pro-Black, Pro-Mexican

http://www.infowars.com/unedited-vid...ican-comments/

Media censors footage to spin remarks as racist

Paul Joseph Watson
Infowars.com
April 25, 2014

The controversy over Cliven Bundy’s “racist” remarks has taken a new turn after longer unedited footage emerged showing the Nevada cattle rancher making pro-black and pro-Mexican comments that were excised out of media reports.

The full clip illustrates how the original New York Times report edited out statements made by Bundy both before and after his supposedly “racist” remarks, which when taken in their full context actually constitute a pro-minority position. Media Matters also cut out these crucial comments from their YouTube upload of Bundy’s remarks.

Bundy’s full comments are reprinted below, with the parts not printed by the New York Times and other media outlets highlighted in bold (and italicized by me).

…” and so what I’ve testified to ya’, I was in the WATTS riot, I seen the beginning fire and I seen the last fire. What I seen is civil disturbance. People are not happy, people is thinking they did not have their freedom; they didn’t have these things, and they didn’t have them.

We’ve progressed quite a bit from that day until now, and sure don’t want to go back; we sure don’t want the colored people to go back to that point; we sure don’t want the Mexican people to go back to that point; and we can make a difference right now by taking care of some of these bureaucracies, and do it in a peaceful way.

Let me tell.. talk to you about the Mexicans, and these are just things I know about the negroes. I want to tell you one more thing I know about the negro.

When I go, went, go to Las Vegas, North Las Vegas; and I would see these little government houses, and in front of that government house the door was usually open and the older people and the kids…. and there was always at least a half a dozen people sitting on the porch. They didn’t have nothing to do. They didn’t have nothing for the kids to do. They didn’t have nothing for the young girls to do.

And because they were basically on government subsidy – so now what do they do? They abort their young children, they put their young men in jail, because they never, they never learned how to pick cotton. And I’ve often wondered are they were better off as slaves, picking cotton and having a family life and doing things? Or are they better off under government subsidy?

You know they didn’t get more freedom, uh they got less freedom – they got less family life, and their happiness -you could see it in their faces- they were not happy sitting on that concrete sidewalk. Down there they was probably growing their turnips – so that’s all government, that’s not freedom.

Now, let me talk about the Spanish people. You know I understand that they come over here against our constitution and cross our borders. But they’re here and they’re people – and I’ve worked side-by-side a lot of them.

Don’t tell me they don’t work, and don’t tell me they don’t pay taxes. And don’t tell me they don’t have better family structure than most of us white people. When you see those Mexican families, they’re together, they picnic together, they’re spending their time together, and I’ll tell you in my way of thinking they’re awful nice people.

And we need to have those people join us and be with us…. not, not come to our party.

While Bundy’s use of terms such as “negro,” “colored people” and references to picking cotton are undoubtedly politically incorrect (though not unsurprising for an 80-year-old farmer), when taken in its full context, his argument is actually anti-racist in that it laments the plight of black families who have been caught in the trap of dependency on government.

The comments that were also vehemently pro-Mexican were not included in any of the mainstream reports which smeared Bundy as a racist.

“What’s more sad than the refusal to openly discuss the issues – is how quickly the conservative right is willing to throw Bundy to the wolves based solely on the New York Times and Media Matters opinion,” writes the Conservative Treehouse blog, noting that Bundy’s comments are no more controversial than those made by Shirley Sherrod, who was staunchly defended by leftists.

While Bundy’s remarks have been spun as a racist call for a return to slavery, he is clearly using references to slavery only to make a point that blacks are no better off living under the economic slavery of the welfare state.

Furthermore, Bundy’s argument that, “They abort their young children, they put their young men in jail,” is clearly directed at the government’s treatment of black people and is therefore a defense of and not an attack on black Americans.

“It is 100% clear that Cliven Bundy is not saying that blacks should be slaves picking cotton, but that the federal government has created conditions for them so terrible, that their current situation may actually be worse,” writes Jack Flash. “And he’s not blaming blacks for the issues of abortions, and crime and broken families, he’s blaming the Feds. This is the exact opposite of a racist, this is an advocate for the welfare and best interests of blacks. Racist? Why is he praising Mexicans as better than whites, if he’s some sort of white supremacist racist?”

Ron, did you happen to catch the actual video of this I posted earlier?

Earlier you stated definatively Mr Bundy was wrong, now you "believe" he is?

Mr Hage, with his understanding of the issues "believes" he is in the right.

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Another perspective.

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Hardwaterman Said:
Oh and gst I am working on your question on Hage.

It is pretty simple, did the courts ever rule against his family only to have those rulings overturned?

Yes or no?

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ron perhaps you missed this from a couple pages ago.

gst Said:
http://patdollard.com/2014/04/shock-hoax-exposed-full-clip-of-cliven-bun...
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http://theblacksphere.net/2014/4/black-marine-clive-bundy-no-racist

The media distorts information to the point of social division. This is a photo of myself and the resilient, often charismatic, and maybe not so tactful Cliven Bundy. He’s a cowboy and a helluva family man, not an orator. One thing he definitely isn’t – a racist. I found his comments to not only be NOT racist, but his own view of his experiences. Who the heck are we to determine another man’s perspective on the world around him?! Just because Picasso’s view of the world was abstract, does it negate the fact that his art was genuine? Furthermore, if you take the time to do your own research, you’ll find that his statements about some black Americans actually hold weight. He posed a hypothetical question. He said, “I wonder IF” … Hell, I’m black and I often wonder about the same about the decline of the black family. Bottom line is that we are all slaves in this waning republic, no matter our skin color. Mr. Bundy could have used any racial demographic as an example: Native Americans on reservations, whites in trailer parks, etc. He noticed the crippling effects of receiving government “assistance” and the long term result of accepting handouts. It’s not progress at all. I challenge Sean Hannity, Rand Paul, and others to read my comment and reconsider their position in this matter. Individual liberties are at stake here, yours and mine. THAT is the issue. Don’t let the liberal media and ignoramuses like Glenn Beck and that weasel Harry Reid make you lose sight of the real issue here: The federal government is a burgeoning behemoth and a bully on a once constitutional playground.I sincerely hope you real patriots out there who can see through the smoke.

Semper Fidelis

Read more at http://theblacksphere.net/2014/4/black-marine-clive-bundy-no-racist#4jbLZiEqRc8dq10r.99

The media distorts information to the point of social division. This is a photo of myself and the resilient, often charismatic, and maybe not so tactful Cliven Bundy. He’s a cowboy and a helluva family man, not an orator. One thing he definitely isn’t – a racist. I found his comments to not only be NOT racist, but his own view of his experiences. Who the heck are we to determine another man’s perspective on the world around him?! Just because Picasso’s view of the world was abstract, does it negate the fact that his art was genuine? Furthermore, if you take the time to do your own research, you’ll find that his statements about some black Americans actually hold weight. He posed a hypothetical question. He said, “I wonder IF” … Hell, I’m black and I often wonder about the same about the decline of the black family. Bottom line is that we are all slaves in this waning republic, no matter our skin color. Mr. Bundy could have used any racial demographic as an example: Native Americans on reservations, whites in trailer parks, etc. He noticed the crippling effects of receiving government “assistance” and the long term result of accepting handouts. It’s not progress at all. I challenge Sean Hannity, Rand Paul, and others to read my comment and reconsider their position in this matter. Individual liberties are at stake here, yours and mine. THAT is the issue. Don’t let the liberal media and ignoramuses like Glenn Beck and that weasel Harry Reid make you lose sight of the real issue here: The federal government is a burgeoning behemoth and a bully on a once constitutional playground.I sincerely hope you real patriots out there who can see through the smoke.

Semper Fidelis

Read more at http://theblacksphere.net/2014/4/black-marine-clive-bundy-no-racist#4jbLZiEqRc8dq10r.99

The media distorts information to the point of social division. This is a photo of myself and the resilient, often charismatic, and maybe not so tactful Cliven Bundy. He’s a cowboy and a helluva family man, not an orator. One thing he definitely isn’t – a racist. I found his comments to not only be NOT racist, but his own view of his experiences. Who the heck are we to determine another man’s perspective on the world around him?! Just because Picasso’s view of the world was abstract, does it negate the fact that his art was genuine? Furthermore, if you take the time to do your own research, you’ll find that his statements about some black Americans actually hold weight. He posed a hypothetical question. He said, “I wonder IF” … Hell, I’m black and I often wonder about the same about the decline of the black family. Bottom line is that we are all slaves in this waning republic, no matter our skin color. Mr. Bundy could have used any racial demographic as an example: Native Americans on reservations, whites in trailer parks, etc. He noticed the crippling effects of receiving government “assistance” and the long term result of accepting handouts. It’s not progress at all. I challenge Sean Hannity, Rand Paul, and others to read my comment and reconsider their position in this matter. Individual liberties are at stake here, yours and mine. THAT is the issue. Don’t let the liberal media and ignoramuses like Glenn Beck and that weasel Harry Reid make you lose sight of the real issue here: The federal government is a burgeoning behemoth and a bully on a once constitutional playground.I sincerely hope you real patriots out there who can see through the smoke.

Semper Fid

Read more at http://theblacksphere.net/2014/4/black-marine-clive-bundy-no-racist#4jbLZiEqRc8dq10r.99

The media distorts information to the point of social division. This is a photo of myself and the resilient, often charismatic, and maybe not so tactful Cliven Bundy. He’s a cowboy and a helluva family man, not an orator. One thing he definitely isn’t – a racist. I found his comments to not only be NOT racist, but his own view of his experiences. Who the heck are we to determine another man’s perspective on the world around him?! Just because Picasso’s view of the world was abstract, does it negate the fact that his art was genuine? Furthermore, if you take the time to do your own research, you’ll find that his statements about some black Americans actually hold weight. He posed a hypothetical question. He said, “I wonder IF” … Hell, I’m black and I often wonder about the same about the decline of the black family. Bottom line is that we are all slaves in this waning republic, no matter our skin color. Mr. Bundy could have used any racial demographic as an example: Native Americans on reservations, whites in trailer parks, etc. He noticed the crippling effects of receiving government “assistance” and the long term result of accepting handouts. It’s not progress at all. I challenge Sean Hannity, Rand Paul, and others to read my comment and reconsider their position in this matter. Individual liberties are at stake here, yours and mine. THAT is the issue. Don’t let the liberal media and ignoramuses like Glenn Beck and that weasel Harry Reid make you lose sight of the real issue here: The federal government is a burgeoning behemoth and a bully on a once constitutional playground.I sincerely hope you real patriots out there who can see through the smoke.

Semper Fid

Read more at http://theblacksphere.net/2014/4/black-marine-clive-bundy-no-racist#4jbLZiEqRc8dq10r.99

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I find it interesting how easy some people get side tracked from the real issue.
The real issue is not Bundy, racism,  poor communication skills or bad legal advice or tactics. 

Back to the real issue.  BLM kicked off many ranchers for a tortoise, other environmental issues and crony politics.

The same thing can happen in ND and they are working on it now.
Farmers are going to get their trouble from the EPA soon and many in ND will cry like little girls. 

"The only enemy of guns is rust and politicians."

"The best defense against usurpatory government is an assertive citizenry."

William F. Buckley, Jr.
"Unarmed helplessness is for sheep and the French."  Ted Nugent

"The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it."
 -Thomas Jefferson

The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.
-Thomas Jefferson

 

 

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It's not just farmers here in ND,  Look how close we came as a nation to having an administration and senate that would have been able to wage their war on coal impacting how many people.

Look at how they successfully took over 1/6 of the free market enterprise of this nation thru the incremental step to a single payer health care system.

Even though it has been discussed in the past, no one ever attempted what was referenced as the "nuclear option" in the US Senate. Yet now it was not really even discussed, but just done by OUR govt.

They arrogantly ignored decades of established protocol that supported the ideals of a Constitutional Republic and seized more power and control.

And now that action has allowed them the ability to place judges unopposed that will rule on issues like this  for decades to come

In the last decade, (yes even under a Republican President) govt control has expanded greatly and it seems "we the people" simply tolerated it or as cynical says are so easily distracted from it that we don;t notice.

Right here right now in ND we have an attempt at expansion of this govt control by the very same type non profit enviromental groups that have been behind the BLM and FS driving these ranchers off legally agreed multiple use lands.

The 5% oil and as tax measure is being funded almost entirely by these out of state interests.

They have become SO arrogant that right in the very language of the measure to change our constitution they decree the people of North Dakota can not have a say on this matter if it were to pass for 25 years no matter the consequences
.

The govt of "we the people" has become the govt of those in power ONLY because "we the people" allow it by being distracted from the real issues as cynical states.

If we step back and look at most every expansion of govt control that is brought to light, there has been something made up or created to distract from that actual expansion of govt control.

The issue Mr. Bundy faced has been quietly going on for decades and hardly anyone outside the ranching community knew or cared about it.

The govt was so arrogant and had become so emboldened with their power and control they thought they could get away with sending 200 armed men and snipers to do their bidding of "collecting grazing fees" .

Only after one family and thousands of people that still believe in the "we the people" ideals of our govt attracted national attention did they back down. And yet how many have painted them as "crazies/radicals" and maligned their actions?

And what was the very next tactic, make up bullshit and distract from the real issue. Even going so far as to manipulate comments to play the race card.  We would rather sit and bicker over small things while the govt turns the yoke tighter than put our differences aside and accept the responsibilities the Founding Fathers placed on us to continue what they established.

Those that want to take the power and control away form who it rightfully belongs "the people" are counting on that.

Hopefully ron and others can take a step back and see Mr. Bundy is nothing more than a quiet old rancher that wanted nothing more than to carry on ranching as his family had for generations before him that said enough is enough after watching what had happened to 52 other ranchers that were friends and neighbors and stood his ground in an attempt to halt the expanding arrogance and control of the Federal govt.

We in the ranching community did not pick Mr. Bundy, the Federal govt did and they may have made a mistake if "we the people" wish to actually see the bigger picture.

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Part 1: I've been sound bited by the media once. I was talking about property and business. If a man knows what the rules and regulations are written in the ND Century Code, and he discerns that he can live by them, he then puts in his sweat equity time and investment into his property.

After a certain amount of time the government comes in and changes the rules. A man has to fight to protect his livelyhood. In my case it was a handfull of people (many federal agents) who wanted to change the law and then use government enforcement to "take" a piece of my property. No compensation. 

Part 2: Don't ask me why I capped off the interview saying, "it's kind of like a card game, the dealer reserves the right to keep changing the rules. Who would want to play?"

Which part do you think the paper printed? SOB

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cynical Said:
I find it interesting how easy some people get side tracked from the real issue.
The real issue is not Bundy, racism,  poor communication skills or bad legal advice or tactics. 

Back to the real issue.  BLM kicked off many ranchers for a tortoise, other environmental issues and crony politics.

The same thing can happen in ND and they are working on it now.
Farmers are going to get their trouble from the EPA soon and many in ND will cry like little girls. 

Pretty much what I have said but it is not I who keeps parading Bundy on this site as the face!!!

He has become right or wrong a side show.

ND is not immune to the over reach, in fact we are seeing it in other industries beyond Ag. It is why I have said many times that elections have consequences and this should be very evident to anyone.

While Heidi has been supportive of most issues that relate to energy and Ag one has to look hard at her votes on confirmation of appointed officials and the fall out of those appointments.

I do not think many took that into account with Dorgan and Conrad at all!!!

In my lifetime I have seen fence row to fence row farming and the return of CRP and game to the landscape.Now we face again the prosepect of fence row to fence row again! Sportsman are our own worst enemy in that we fail to look forward and focus to much on the now!

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Hardwaterman Said:

cynical Said:
I find it interesting how easy some people get side tracked from the real issue.
The real issue is not Bundy, racism,  poor communication skills or bad legal advice or tactics. 

Back to the real issue.  BLM kicked off many ranchers for a tortoise, other environmental issues and crony politics.

The same thing can happen in ND and they are working on it now.
Farmers are going to get their trouble from the EPA soon and many in ND will cry like little girls. 

Pretty much what I have said but it is not I who keeps parading Bundy on this site as the face!!!

ron, which cattlemans org held Bundy up as the "face"? Which one picked him to lead the charge on this issue? Tell us ron who picked him to be "the face"?????
  As you likely will not answer, let me. The govt when they sent 200 armed men to collect a"grazing fee" bill.

He has become right or wrong a side show.
So even though you admit Mr. Bundys comments everyone wants to falsely portray as racist were not and even after admitting he was spot on with what he actually said, You still want to focus on Mr. Bundy being the issue.

Ron, was it YOU that brought Wayne Hages case into this discussion to present some facts? No. Was it you that shared the facts on Redis involvement, no.  Was it you that linked the enviromental groups to changes in BLM policies back in the 90's to now? No. YOU kept focusing on "Bundy is wrong (the court said so) You kept focusing on these grazing fees and court rulings and Bundy rather than the real issues behind this, calling people a "dumb ass" for not focusing on Mr. Bundy.

Take a step back ron and be a little honest.

Some of us have tried to focus the conversation on the facts relating to water rights law and political cronyism and corruption and enviromental groups using lawsuits to push agendas and You dismiss all this and what do you always come back to? Bundy is wrong, the courts said so.

So who is really the one holding Bundy up as the face in this discussion here on FBO ron?

How many times did the courts say the Hage's were wrong ron?

ND is not immune to the over reach, in fact we are seeing it in other industries beyond Ag. It is why I have said many times that elections have consequences and this should be very evident to anyone.

While Heidi has been supportive of most issues that relate to energy and Ag one has to look hard at her votes on confirmation of appointed officials and the fall out of those appointments.

I do not think many took that into account with Dorgan and Conrad at all!!!.

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Thanks for making my point gst! You will not let it go!!!! YOU and others LIKE YOU are the poster carrying people!!

In my lifetime I have seen fence row to fence row farming and the return of CRP and game to the landscape.Now we face again the prosepect of fence row to fence row again! Sportsman are our own worst enemy in that we fail to look forward and focus to much on the now!

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ron, might I suggest you go back to the very begining of this thread and start reading?

You spent how much time denying it was about political cronyism and corruption and claiming it was all about Bundy.

How many times did you and others deny it was about personal property rights thru the water rights laws of these western states and claimed rather it was about Bundy?

How many times did you and others like plaisnamn and longshot try to deny it was about enviromental groups just like the ones trying to change our states constitution that were behind actions back in the 90 til now and instead want to blame Bundy and call him a thief and every other thing?

Like I said ron, if you want to take a step back and be honest.........................33 pages of you and your cronies from Nodak denying every other fact presented and ALWAYS taking it back to one rancher and "grazing fees" is hard to deny ron.



so ron, answer this one question, what is this issue in Nevada all about?

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 FIGURE IT OUT RON!! GEEZ   

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In retrospect:

The ranchers pay a fee for grass and water rights and the money goes into a fund to the BLM to help manage. Bundy says they are not helping and refused to pay the money directly to them or sign their lease agreement. $10,000 dollars or after twenty years $200,000. For that he is a theif.

Sportmen pay a fee to hunt and the money goes into a special fund to the Game and Fish to better manage the resource. If the G/F spent the money to do away with hunting, who would not be upset? How many would continue to purchase a license?

Sportsmen also pay into the Pitt Robertson Act when they purchase guns and ammo. The money goes into a special fund to better manage the resource. What if $60,000 million dollars was missing?

http://www.lobowatch.org/adminclient/WolfControl6/go

 In the eyes of many who have witnessed this wildlife disaster, topping the list is the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service. We now know that when Congress denied funding for capturing Canadian wolves and transplanting them into Wyoming, Montana and Idaho, USFWS literally stole the money needed for the project from the excise taxes sportsmen paid on firearms, ammunition, archery equipment and fishing gear, through what is known as the Pitman-Robertson Act. These funds are to be used exclusively for wildlife habitat and fisheries improvement. USFWS helped itself to somewhere between $60- and $70-million dollars to finance several unauthorized uses - including the funding needed to dump wolves back into the Northern Rockies ecosystem.

Right there with USFWS is a long list of anti-hunting "environmental" organizations, including the Defenders of Wildlife, the Sierra Club, the Humane Society of the United States, and a few dozen others. These groups have learned to use wolf impact on big game populations as a tool to put an end to hunting. Without a surplus of big game, there's no need for hunters. It's that simple. And one former upper echelon USFWS division chief, who blew the whistle on the theft of millions from Pitman-Robertson funds, also says that USFWS has entered into under-the-table agreements with the environmentalists - those who want more wolves, and fewer hunters.

OK you FBO half cracks, where is the outrage?

Bill Clinton appointed Jamie Rappaport Clark to director of the US Fish and Wildlife Service and now she is president of Defenders of Wildlife. Yes, these non-profits are surrogates of the fed/gov.

Somebody stole $60 million bucks from the sportsmen and yet here we are 32 pages debating whether or not Bundy is a theif because he  wouldn't pay them the $10,000 per year to mis-manage. Beam me up.

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Ryan Bundy explains their range rights.  Very interesting interview.

www.youtube.com/watch

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I dont go around guessing cup sizes either I just know a nice rack when I see one.

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 #CREDIBILITY

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sdwxman Said:
 #CREDIBILITY

#

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plainsamn is talking about "beware of the land grab" but he never mentions the "peoples" land being "grabbed" for development and sale.

He never mentions the govt "grabbing" private lands.

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gst Said:
plainsamn is talking about "beware of the land grab" but he never mentions the "peoples" land being "grabbed" for development and sale.

He never mentions the govt "grabbing" private lands.

I'm sure Eric Holder is about to dig into this....yeah right.

"The only enemy of guns is rust and politicians."

"The best defense against usurpatory government is an assertive citizenry."

William F. Buckley, Jr.
"Unarmed helplessness is for sheep and the French."  Ted Nugent

"The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it."
 -Thomas Jefferson

The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.
-Thomas Jefferson

 

 

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In a neighboring county to the Bundy Ranch, ranchers in Elko County Nevada are facing similar threat with BLM land grabs in the near future using the "endangered species", and discuss Bundy Ranch standoff at around the halfway mark of 2:00.

One commissioner states that he believes that Mr. Bundy would have won his case in court if he would have presented it like Wayne Hage.

elkocounty.granicus.com/MediaPlayer.php
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 pber Said:

In a neighboring county to the Bundy Ranch, ranchers in Elko County Nevada are facing similar threat with BLM land grabs in the near future using the "endangered species", and discuss Bundy Ranch standoff at around the halfway mark of 2:00.

One commissioner states that he believes that Mr. Bundy would have won his case in court if he would have presented it like Wayne Hage.

elkocounty.granicus.com/MediaPlayer.php

Ranchers in Elko County may be facing BLM problems, but Elko County is on I 80 in eastern Nevada and is probably 200+ miles from Bundy's land.  Not that the distance separating the 2 issues doesn't make this relevant, Elko just is not close to Bundy's ranch.

Steve.

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RSL Stated:  Ranchers in Elko County may be facing BLM problems, but Elko County is on I 80 in eastern Nevada and is probably 200+ miles from Bundy's land.  Not that the distance separating the 2 issues doesn't make this relevant, Elko just is not close to Bundy's ranch.

Yes, maybe not the right choice of words.  I cut and paste that from another article, but if you listen to the testimony by the guests and commissioners in attendance many of them know Mr. Bundy personally and one was even at the ranch during the BLM onslaught and left and contacted the governor.  So the counties may be separated by other counties but the distance does not seem matter in the people knowing each other, I imagine much like us here in North Dakota. 

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cynical Said:

gst Said:
plainsamn is talking about "beware of the land grab" but he never mentions the "peoples" land being "grabbed" for development and sale.

He never mentions the govt "grabbing" private lands.

I'm sure Eric Holder is about to dig into this....yeah right.

And there in is a symption of the disease. If, in a Constitutional Republic, the top law enforcement official is allowed to get way with ignoring the rule of law to the extent we now see it happening..................................but hey, people would rather blame a rancher and focus on grazing fees.

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When the grazing associations tried to get the Forest Service to implement their power/land grab right here in the Badlands of North Dakota they destroyed all trust for me and many people I talk with.  The Sagebrush Rebellion does the same on a national basis.  People are willing to hate the government, but they feel like they are between a rock and a hard spot because they don't trust people associated with the Sagebrush Rebellion either.  I think most would like to see the ranchers involved and the BLM both loose this power struggle.

Maybe it's a government plan.  Nothing like the Sagebrush Rebellion to get people to support the government.  I don't like big government power grabs myself, but given the choice between them and the Sagebrush Rebellion I'll go with the one that insures my ability to keep using that land for recreation.  

Dick McFiddleton's picture
Dick McFiddleton
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Joined: 4/9/14

#befuddlement, may those keeping this thread alive log out and peacefully submit themselves for a psychiatric evaluation.  Things can and do get better.  Don't throw away your lives.  Good luck and Good day!

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Fritz the Cat
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Joined: 5/24/08

Plainsman,

What are you talking about in North Dakota? This?

http://www.rangemagazine.com/archives/stories/winter00/threatening.htm

The proposed management plan will impose restrictions on every single user of the Grasslands. Ranchers, hunters, sightseers, birdwatchers, hikers, mountain bikers, trail riders, campers, and more use these lands. The Grasslands are known as the “Land of Many Uses.” Your comments can help ensure they remain that way. The Forest Service needs to hear from YOU!

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gst
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GREENHORN
Joined: 3/12/09

Plainsman Said:
When the grazing associations tried to get the Forest Service to implement their power/land grab right here in the Badlands of North Dakota they destroyed all trust for me and many people I talk with.  The Sagebrush Rebellion does the same on a national basis.  People are willing to hate the government, but they feel like they are between a rock and a hard spot because they don't trust people associated with the Sagebrush Rebellion either.  I think most would like to see the ranchers involved and the BLM both loose this power struggle.

Maybe it's a government plan.  Nothing like the Sagebrush Rebellion to get people to support the government.  I don't like big government power grabs myself, but given the choice between them and the Sagebrush Rebellion I'll go with the one that insures my ability to keep using that land for recreation.  

plainsman always makes claims like this. He made this one awhile ago claiming the ranching associations here in ND were trying to be able to charge people to hunt on the Badlands.

He was asked to provide some sort of proof to back up his allegations. Remember that bruce?

Funny thing is he never provides any proof to back up these claims he makes.

plainsman, do you support the states ability to explore the possibility the Constitution does not allow the Federal govt to own these lands?

Bruce if it is at some point proven in court that the Constitution allows for the States to gain control of these lands back will you support that?

 

gst's picture
gst
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GREENHORN
Joined: 3/12/09

FireMarshallBill Said:
#befuddlement, may those keeping this thread alive log out and peacefully submit themselves for a psychiatric evaluation.  Things can and do get better.  Don't throw away your lives.  Good luck and Good day!

indeed it is "craziness" to continue to point out govt over reach and unlawful actions while holding those that seek to dismiss and distract from it accountable for their bullshit claims.

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