Nevada BLM actions background

Pages

682 posts / 0 new
Last post
Longshot's picture
Longshot
Offline
Joined: 12/1/03

gst Said:

Nice story bruce.

Now that is funny.  Must be kind of like your story of the link between the judge and Reid?  The connection you claim or don't claim but post.  So gst since the BLM didn't do anything for 20 years that makes Bundy's trespass ok?

wstnodak's picture
wstnodak
Offline
Joined: 11/3/02

Kicking butt today again I see gabe!  You gotta be up to what 12...maybe 14 posts already!  Nice work!

One question for you.  Do you consider posting on FBO this many times in a day waste full time management or......?  Just wondering.

If god didn't want us to eat animals....he wouldn't have made them out of food.

Longshot's picture
Longshot
Offline
Joined: 12/1/03

gst Said:
No where have I inferred you were "for" this sale of lands far below their value, only that you are so biased against one rancher you would chose to over look this "theft" of many millions from "the people".

That observation  is no BS.

Wow you even contradict yourself in a single post.  You're getting good at that.  Claim to not infer that I was for the land sale yet infer that I would overlook it (approve of it being the meaning of this) because of your perceived bias against "one rancher". 

zogman's picture
zogman
Offline
GREENHORN
Joined: 1/23/02

I need help figuring this out.  Most on here are smarter than I so here's the scene.

Clive Bundy owes 1.1 million.  So they claim.  They send the Seventh Calvery in.

Al Sharpton owes 1.9 million and he is at a fundraiser party on down with Odumbo.

Something wrong here in my mind.

Guess it is who you know. 

"If God didn't want us to hunt, He wouldn't have given us plaid shirts; I only kill in self defense—what would you do if a rabbit pulled a knife on you?"

Floyd R. Turbo

Plainsman's picture
Plainsman
Offline
AMATEUR
Joined: 6/19/03

There you go zogman another cell mate for Reid and Bundy. 

gst you ask what is reasonable grazing.  I'll tell you if you tell me the plant species on Bundy's grazing allotment (or what was his allotment), the tons per acre, the water availability, the top five plants in the desert tortoise diet, etc.  Then we can talk logically not all emotion and bs.  You or I don't have those answers do we?  I don't. 

Longshot's picture
Longshot
Offline
Joined: 12/1/03

zogman Said:
I need help figuring this out.  Most on here are smarter than I so here's the scene.

Clive Bundy owes 1.1 million.  So they claim.  They send the Seventh Calvery in.

Al Sharpton owes 1.9 million and he is at a fundraiser party on down with Odumbo.

Something wrong here in my mind.

Guess it is who you know. 

Yep they should put a lein on all of Al Sharpton's assets!  But then again just because Al Sharpton is wrong doesn't make it ok for anyone.  Both the IRS and the BLM need to manage things better.

gst's picture
gst
Offline
GREENHORN
Joined: 3/12/09

Longshot Said:

gst Said:

Nice story bruce.

Now that is funny.  Must be kind of like your story of the link between the judge and Reid?  The connection you claim or don't claim but post.  So gst since the BLM didn't do anything for 20 years that makes Bundy's trespass ok?

longshot, once again, it is not "my" story.

Go to the Lou Dobbs video and at about 3.55 into it they mention it.

longshot, if the BLM is crated to help ranchers better manage their lands thru fees the rancher pays to the BLM and then suddenly over night the BLM because of lawsuits form orgs you seem to like takes these fees and uses them to push the rancher off the lands, is "that right"?

What about the multiple use agreements that these ranchers had honored for decades?

longshot, it is back tracking a bit, but I will ask you the same thing I asked bruce and ron. What do YOU know about western land law and water rights?

gst's picture
gst
Offline
GREENHORN
Joined: 3/12/09

Plainsman Said:
There you go zogman another cell mate for Reid and Bundy. 

gst you ask what is reasonable grazing.  I'll tell you if you tell me the plant species on Bundy's grazing allotment (or what was his allotment), the tons per acre, the water availability, the top five plants in the desert tortoise diet, etc.  Then we can talk logically not all emotion and bs.  You or I don't have those answers do we?  I don't

plasinamn were have I asked what is "reasonable grazing"?? You seem to be the one trying to make claims about what is or what based on 70 year old pictures bruce.

one simple question. Is NO grazing the right amount on lands in Nevada?

How about the land in Wyoming that you seemed to be an expert on bruce. you seem to want to sneak way from that conversation.

You claimed there should be NO grazing on these lands and yet here above you admit you know nothing about themhave no knowledge to base that statement on. You do remember saying there should be NO grazing o the Bundy allotment right bruce?


gst's picture
gst
Offline
GREENHORN
Joined: 3/12/09

wstnodak Said:
Kicking butt today again I see gabe!  You gotta be up to what 12...maybe 14 posts already!  Nice work!

One question for you.  Do you consider posting on FBO this many times in a day waste full time management or......?  Just wondering.

James, I really hate to waste a post answering these petty childish hatred based whines. So please, try actually speaking to an issue for once.

Just to ease your mind on my daily management, started today feeding cows, tagged a few calves, got a box off a pickup and got a flatbed bolted on it, roped and treated a calf, picked up some seed that was delivered to the neighbors, headed to a baseball game, left when it was 19 to 0 in the 3rd and just got back home, before the day ends will go thru some more calves, run in two pairs that calved today, hook up a trailer to go to town with tomorrow and  then maybe close a few grain bin lids before it rains.

Kind of a slow day.

Plainsman's picture
Plainsman
Offline
AMATEUR
Joined: 6/19/03
one simple question.

That's the biggest lie I have seen on fishingbuddy.  One question, sure and pigs fly.

You claimed there should be NO grazing on these lands

I said if it takes 320 acres to feed one cow there should be no grazing.  I can't imagine anyone grazing land with that little grass.  From a energy budget standpoint I don't see where a cow can balance energy output with energy gained.  I kind of wonder if old Bundy was telling the truth about that too. 

How about the land in Wyoming that you seemed to be an expert on bruce. you seem to want to sneak way from that conversation.
 

I see you can't count either.  I seen public land in Wyoming that was lightly grazed, some heavily grazed, and some moderate.  I looked at the prescribed grazing rate and some of those guys were putting in more cattle than they paid for.  I needed to look at heavily grazed, moderately grazed, and lightly grazed so it worked out well.  It was hard to find lightly grazed.  Unfortunately heavily grazed was the easiest to find.  The lightly grazed that I looked at would have supported a cow calf on 15 acres.  The heavily grazed would have required 80 acres and needed a year of recovery.  Any more grazing and there would have been tooth marks on the rocks. 320 acres per AUM if not all trees, sage, or cactus must look like a lunar scape. 

gst how much per acre would you rent land from a neighbor for grazing 320 AUM land.  Maybe you could answer that question for me.  I doubt you will answer, but I want others to think about that.  What does this land look like, and why would you want your cow on it? 

gst's picture
gst
Offline
GREENHORN
Joined: 3/12/09

Longshot Said:

gst Said:
No where have I inferred you were "for" this sale of lands far below their value, only that you are so biased against one rancher you would chose to over look this "theft" of many millions from "the people".

That observation  is no BS.

Wow you even contradict yourself in a single post.  You're getting good at that.  Claim to not infer that I was for the land sale yet infer that I would overlook it (approve of it being the meaning of this) because of your perceived bias against "one rancher". 

Really this is the best you got???

So saying someone is wiling to over looking something now equates to claiming that person approves of it now?

That remedial English class is starting to fill up boys.

gst's picture
gst
Offline
GREENHORN
Joined: 3/12/09

Plainsman Said:

one simple question.

That's the biggest lie I have seen on fishingbuddy.  One question, sure and pigs fly.

gst Said

one simple question. Is NO grazing the right amount on lands in Nevada?

bruce it is pretty simple and it is only one.

gst's picture
gst
Offline
GREENHORN
Joined: 3/12/09

Plainsman Said

You claimed there should be NO grazing on these lands

I said if it takes 320 acres to feed one cow there should be no grazing.  I can't imagine anyone grazing land with that little grass.  From a energy budget standpoint I don't see where a cow can balance energy output with energy gained.  I kind of wonder if old Bundy was telling the truth about that too. 

Ah you must be the guest speaker at rons "Ranching 101" class eh bruce?

How many millions of cattle do you think have been raised on these lands over the years bruce?

I am starting to get confused here bruce are you for grazing these lands or against it?

gst's picture
gst
Offline
GREENHORN
Joined: 3/12/09

Plainsman Said: 

How about the land in Wyoming that you seemed to be an expert on bruce. you seem to want to sneak way from that conversation.
 

I see you can't count either.  I seen public land in Wyoming that was lightly grazed, some heavily grazed, and some moderate.  I looked at the prescribed grazing rate and some of those guys were putting in more cattle than they paid for.  I needed to look at heavily grazed, moderately grazed, and lightly grazed so it worked out well.  It was hard to find lightly grazed.  Unfortunately heavily grazed was the easiest to find.  The lightly grazed that I looked at would have supported a cow calf on 15 acres.  The heavily grazed would have required 80 acres and needed a year of recovery.  Any more grazing and there would have been tooth marks on the rocks. 320 acres per AUM if not all trees, sage, or cactus must look like a lunar scape. 

gst how much per acre would you rent land from a neighbor for grazing 320 AUM land.  Maybe you could answer that question for me.  I doubt you will answer, but I want others to think about that.  What does this land look like, and why would you want your cow on it? 

Nice story plainsman, but you still have not addressed the fact I shared with you that the range land around Worland Wy. that the BLM manages has a much lower grazing requirement (60.-70 acres) and yet you still claimed there should be no grazing there didn;t you?

Oh and please excuse me if I do not place much stock in your grazing analysis, you hardly seem to be a ranglenad specialist.

As to what I would pay, it would depend what other lands were avaliable now wouldn't it. It would depend on what profit I would like to make and what my other expenses would be as well right?
 
If all the other lands around it were the same and I had enough to run enough cows to make a living why wouldn;t I want cattle on it bruce??

But you see that is the kicker bruce, your friends in the NWF have it figured out.

Let me share once again their plan and ideals are.

"What everyone likes is the Big Victory. You load them cattle trucks for the last time and they go driving off into the sunset and they never come back."

"But you can win a lot more victories than that ultimate one, you can win a lot more victories by making him (the rancher) pay for what he does out there and by making it so expensive in his operation and making so many changes for him to continue to run his cattle on the public lands that he goes broke, he can't do it, he has to come up with other ways to be a rancher."

"When you get right down to it, the boots and the hat, boy for them guys, it’s a way of life."

"The ultimate picture is, of course, the last cattle truck driving off into the sunset, but that's not how you win."

"How you win is one at a time, one at a time, he goes out of business, he dies, you wait him out, but you win."

There you go bruce, these are the kind of people YOU are defending and welcoming into our state to change our constitution aren;t you?

Please defend why you want people like this coming into our state to have access to billions of dollars plainsman.

You support people like this coming into our state and yet you expect people to believe your bullshit about supporting grazing????

How stupid do you think people are bruce?

Have you ever heard the statement  "actions speak louder than words" bruce?

Credibility.

Oh, bruce, what does a piece of land look like when Allen Savory is done grazing on it?

gst's picture
gst
Offline
GREENHORN
Joined: 3/12/09

plasinamn you seem to be emboldened now that longshot and west have shown up.

Hardwaterman's picture
Hardwaterman
Offline
GREENHORN
Joined: 11/6/02

21 pages and it can be summed up just as I said in my very first post!!

Bundy wrong!!

BLM wrong!!

Reid wrong!!

None of those wrongs excuse or give any of the above the right to act and be wrong!!

Yet gst and others support Bundy acting wrong and use BLM being wrong as justification.

If you want to use that logic then BLM is right because of the wrong Bundy committed and Reid is right because both Bundy and the BLM where wrong!!!

Good god, give it a rest! Public support for Bundy is nill!!! Public support to slow down and stop the BLM is rising!!

People like gst and bundy supporters are hurting the efforts to stop and slow the BLM!!!!

You can twist, spin and piss and moan all you want gst but you are hurting more than helping!!! The very few uneducated on this issue is so small that your time would be better spent fixing fence!!!

Your back to back to back etc... posting confirm you are a dumbass!!!

In my lifetime I have seen fence row to fence row farming and the return of CRP and game to the landscape.Now we face again the prosepect of fence row to fence row again! Sportsman are our own worst enemy in that we fail to look forward and focus to much on the now!

Fritz the Cat's picture
Fritz the Cat
Offline
Joined: 5/24/08

Plainsman Said:

Bundy never signed the lease back in 1993 either. Now go fish. You tell us why?

I think that's why the BLM called it trespassing.   I don't think he had grazing rights when he put his cattle out this spring.  Maybe that's why they decided to do something this time of year.  It's when he put his cows on the land.

A typical Plainsman response. I don't care to hear more of your opinions. Do some research and tell me why Bundy refused to sign the BLM's lease agreement in 1993.

I'm waiting.

gst's picture
gst
Offline
GREENHORN
Joined: 3/12/09

Hardwaterman Said:
21 pages and it can be summed up just as I said in my very first post!!

Bundy wrong!!

BLM wrong!!

Reid wrong!!

None of those wrongs excuse or give any of the above the right to act and be wrong!!

Yet gst and others support Bundy acting wrong and use BLM being wrong as justification.

If you want to use that logic then BLM is right because of the wrong Bundy committed and Reid is right because both Bundy and the BLM where wrong!!!

Good god, give it a rest! Public support for Bundy is nill!!! Public support to slow down and stop the BLM is rising!!

People like gst and bundy supporters are hurting the efforts to stop and slow the BLM!!!!

You can twist, spin and piss and moan all you want gst but you are hurting more than helping!!! The very few uneducated on this issue is so small that your time would be better spent fixing fence!!!

Your back to back to back etc... posting confirm you are a dumbass!!!

got a link to back that up?

Ron did you happen to catch Megan and Dana ?

gst's picture
gst
Offline
GREENHORN
Joined: 3/12/09

Hardwaterman Said:
The very few uneducated on this issue is so small that your time would be better spent fixing fence!!!

Your back to back to back etc... posting confirm you are a dumbass!!!

It seems they are all on FBO!

gst's picture
gst
Offline
GREENHORN
Joined: 3/12/09

Hardwaterman Said:
 The very few uneducated on this issue is so small that your time would be better spent fixing fence!!!

Your back to back to back etc... posting confirm you are a dumbass!!!

This coming from the "Ranching 101" professor that schooled everyone on ranching in SD after the Atlas blizzard.

Hell even bobkat thought you were a dumb ass in that one ron.

Plainsman's picture
Plainsman
Offline
AMATEUR
Joined: 6/19/03
Do some research and tell me why Bundy refused to sign the BLM's lease agreement in 1993.

There is no excuse for it other than in Bundy's mind and I guess yours too. 

As to what I would pay, it would depend what other lands were avaliable now wouldn't it. It would depend on what profit I would like to make and what my other expenses would be as well right?

gst I was more specific than you want to answer.  Lets assume there is no other land available.  Now, how much would you pay per acre for land that takes 320 acres to feed a cow?  Perhaps I should ask if you would rent it under any circumstances. 

Ripnem's picture
Ripnem
Offline
GREENHORN
Joined: 12/17/06

 Didn't 52 Ranches shut down their business, that neighbored the Bundys?

Why in the sam scratch would he follow down the same path? 

BringingTheRain's picture
BringingTheRain
Offline
Joined: 1/5/10

 

feather_duster's picture
feather_duster
Offline
GREENHORN
Joined: 9/10/06

 Adrian Peterson is now a Seahawk!!

gst's picture
gst
Offline
GREENHORN
Joined: 3/12/09

Plainsman Said:

Do some research and tell me why Bundy refused to sign the BLM's lease agreement in 1993.

There is no excuse for it other than in Bundy's mind and I guess yours too. 

As to what I would pay, it would depend what other lands were avaliable now wouldn't it. It would depend on what profit I would like to make and what my other expenses would be as well right?

gst I was more specific than you want to answer.  Lets assume there is no other land available.  Now, how much would you pay per acre for land that takes 320 acres to feed a cow?  Perhaps I should ask if you would rent it under any circumstances. 

plainsman why not answer fritz;s question?

To answer yours, if I can rent the land at a rate that allows me to be profitable why wouldn;t I rent it?

You want a black and white answer. In expecting one all it does is show your lack of understanding and knowledge of ranching. There are simply too many variables to be able to give you the black and white answer you seek.

The fact you do not understand this speaks loudly to how little you really know about ranching.

gst's picture
gst
Offline
GREENHORN
Joined: 3/12/09

btr, so it appears you are amused by someone that is as poorly informed as some on here?

I mean he is a comedian, sometimes funny, (he even had a few humorous moments here, but he seems fixated that Mr Bundy broke the law as are a small group on here?

Myself and others have acknowledged he did in fact not abide by the regulations set forth by the BLM.

Okay? Even though ron disingenuously insists I don;t understand that, it is clear, and it has been admitted.

But given Mr. Stewarts apparent insistance the "law" be followed, please explain how the BLM gets a pass for breaking regulations themselves?

You see back in the 90's the BLM as a result of lawsuits by radical enviromental groups "broke" the regulations that governed the multiple use contracts Mr Bundys family had been grazing cattle under for generations.

The BLM continued to break these multiple use regulations (ladd , a lawyer, referenced them early on in this discussion) and Mr Bundy watched as it forced 52 other ranchers off these BLM lands they were making a living grazing cattle on.

So stay with me here, cause I think Mr Stewert seemed to completely ignore this part like some on here are.

If the government begins to break the laws that are in place to regulate an action, is the person under those regulations compelled to follow the act which is the breaking of the regulations by the govt?

Make no doubt about it, the Federal govt alpahbet agencies are breaking these multiple use regulations all over. They are doing so because groups like the NWF are suing them if they do not.

Remember those documents form the BLM site that spelled out this removal of cattle from these multiple use lands which mysteriously disappeared after this all started but were retreived from another sites cache? (I wonder if Mr. Stewart had read those? )

So when the govt itself engages in unjust actions, are the actions taken in response unlawful?

I mean a judge being smoozed by Harry Reid for a seat on the SCOTUS thinks so............................ but who knows where this will ultimately end up.

There are court cases pending all over the west over this very thing. And despite rons legal crystal ball, the Wayne Hage case set a precedence never before set that may open some peoples eyes a bit. (at least those that want tobe opened)

I mean how many times has ron and plaisnamn agreed in this thread that Wayne Hage was right and yet they seem to disregard Mr. Hage a lawyer himself that successfully argued his case in court was there supporting the Bundys

Now I know ron and logshot and a few others have a high opinion of their own legal expertise, but when a actual lawyer such as Hage that was successful in overturning the BLM himself joins the fray, forgive me, but I place a little more weight on his understanding of the situation than rons or bruces or longshots.

but hey, continue to get your information on things such as the incremental overtaking of individual freedoms by the Federal govt from comedy shows..................what could possibly go wrong with this nation as a result.

pber's picture
pber
Offline
Joined: 5/19/08

This is probably the BEST explanation I have heard about this whole situation starting at 1:00:

www.velocityradio.fm/keystone-pipeline-roni-bell-sylvester-on-bundy-fallacies/

gst's picture
gst
Offline
GREENHORN
Joined: 3/12/09

btr, I'll see your Jon Stewart and raise you a Colonel Allen West.

But I'm sure ron thinks he is a "dumb ass" as well.

gst's picture
gst
Offline
GREENHORN
Joined: 3/12/09

pber Said:
This is probably the BEST explanation I have heard about this whole situation starting at 1:00:

www.velocityradio.fm/keystone-pipeline-roni-bell-sylvester-on-bundy-fallacies/

This is a very definative accurate explanation for those that actually want to learn a little bit about this situation that is happening not only at the Bundy ranch, but all across the nation.

thanks for sharing that.

Fritz the Cat's picture
Fritz the Cat
Offline
Joined: 5/24/08

pber,

I have asked Plainsman to share something other then his usaul useless information. If you can find this so can he.

That was an easy listen. Early on in this thread I mentioned split title. The fed/gov owns the naked land, the ranchers own the forage and have rights in the water. I also mentioned that a cow is a walking mini factory. Cattle have rights to water and forage.  Roni Bell Sylvester mentioned that cow has an easement of right of way to use the trails. 

Roni Bell Sylvester mentioned something that some of us have been thinking. The States want the fed/gov to give up control of these lands. Escalantie National Park in Utah was turned into a monument by Clinton. It is loaded with coal natural gas etc. Much of those lands are. The Chinese own a great share of our national debt. What has our fed/gov been putting up for collateral?

A split title on land would complicate things.  

pber Said:
This is probably the BEST explanation I have heard about this whole situation starting at 1:00:

www.velocityradio.fm/keystone-pipeline-roni-bell-sylvester-on-bundy-fallacies/
 

Thanks for the link. Roni Bell Sylvester just made too much sense.

I asked Plainsman to tell me why Bundy refused to sign the BLM lease back in 1993. I knew I wouldn't get a link like you just provided. Instead more of his flatulence.  For the life of me I cannot understand why the North Dakota Wildlife Federation or the Wildlife Society have not put a muzzle on him.

Pages