Nevada BLM actions background

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pber Said:

Plainsman stated:  I watched one of he people there say that they did it.  Not the media, not the sheriff, but one of their own people. 

WOW, there is a lot of men hiding behind the women's skirts in this video.   www.youtube.com/watch

pber, I would like to see old Bruce spout off to some of those cowgirls down there what he does hiding behind his computer!!!

He'd likely be roped, hogtied and have a big D for Dumb ass branded on his ass before he knew what happened.

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Plainsman Stated:  If the women did it on their own they have just as big a thinking problem as their men.  I guess if women volunteer to get shot so old man can get a new model oh well. 

These women are standing up and volunteering for something they believe in.  No one was volunteering to get shot.   Any woman in the military and criminal justice are taking the chance of being shot.  They also must have a big thinking problem.  But oh well, if they get shot their old man will get a new model!  

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You going to have the balls to go on record or not ? Make your position crystal clear so that everyone knows exactly where you stand on this disaster!! You always want others to answer so now it is your turn!!!!!

In my lifetime I have seen fence row to fence row farming and the return of CRP and game to the landscape.Now we face again the prosepect of fence row to fence row again! Sportsman are our own worst enemy in that we fail to look forward and focus to much on the now!

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Plainsman said,

gst I just got back from law enforcement training about ten minutes ago. 

Bruce, they don't let you handle live ammo I hope.

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 The woman that you and someone else kept asking "have you watched the video".  I thought when I said she ran for governor (I can't remember her name) it would have been a big enough hint for people who like her.  She has a ranch background.  Sorry can not think of more hints.  Call KFYR.

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Plainsman Said:
 The woman that you and someone else kept asking "have you watched the video".  I thought when I said she ran for governor (I can't remember her name) it would have been a big enough hint for people who like her.  She has a ranch background.  Sorry can not think of more hints.  Call KFYR.

http://ballotpedia.org/Colorado_gubernatorial_election,_2014

 

Plainsman Said:
I watched that Jimmy Sengen or whatever clip.  The lady that was on was from a ranching background so she isn't any more of a answer to end all questions than you or gst.

Plainsman Said:
Hardwaterman at 6;50pm on KFYR they interviewed that lady that run for governor in Colorado.  They asked her what she thought of the Bundy thing.  She said it had mixed results.  She said it's good that people are finally talking about it, but the Bundy and supporters made them all look like rednecks and that hurts the cause. 

Bruce, so do you think she knows what she is talking about or not?  

Try to stay on one side of the fence or another Bruce.

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Come on gabe you been asked some questions man up and answer them!!!!

In my lifetime I have seen fence row to fence row farming and the return of CRP and game to the landscape.Now we face again the prosepect of fence row to fence row again! Sportsman are our own worst enemy in that we fail to look forward and focus to much on the now!

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Hardwaterman Said:
You going to have the balls to go on record or not ? Make your position crystal clear so that everyone knows exactly where you stand on this disaster!! You always want others to answer so now it is your turn!!!!!

easy there with the balls talk ron, your starting to make me think back to the HFH debate over on Nodak, you remember your childish comments from that one right ron?

Ron,where are you manners, you have a few questions waiting there fella.

but to try and avoid 8 pages of you demanding  an answer while insulting the size of my testicles,

Hardwaterman Said:

So lets cut the bull shit and get down to brass tacks. Since you are siding with Bundy and his supporters, are you willing to go on record and stand behind his statement that he does not recognize the Fed Gov? I stand behind what I believe is the intent of his statement that he does not recognize the Federal govts claim to the forage rights that are tied to the water rights in the state of Nevada. Will you post the specific quote in it's entirity from Mr, Bundy ron? Are you supporting armed acts of violence by him or his supporters? Of course I do  not support "armed acts of violence" only the right granted under our constitution in the 2nd amendment. You do support that right  as well don;t you ron?
Answer these two questions. DO so and put your name to it not a screen name. Have the balls to put your name out there since you are so willing to do so with others!! Or are you going to run away from reality again!!!
Gabe Thompson Jr.

Now ron will you live up to your own standards and answer the questions posed to you?

Or will you follow others suit and claim these are not answers and go on insulting the size of my testicles?

(ron you seem to have some fascination with the male anatomy when you are backed onto a corner in these debates.  I never thought my testicular tenacity would be a topic on a hunting and fishing site! )

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Hardwaterman Said:

SO keep parading him around, oh and by the way got a couple calls from people that attended the birthday party. One had question to your response about it! When you stated that the ranchers you talked to at the bull sale said the BLM where wrong, did they say as well that Bundy was right? Seems your posts are good fodder for laughter around the coffee table in the AM.

Oh yeah? Well ,  my friends think your friends are stupid and eat boogers.

You indeed seem stuck in the 3rd grade ron.

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NO MORE BULL SHIT! THAT IS NOT WHAT HE SAID!!!!! YOU KNOW IT!!

You do not know his intent so you have to stand behind his statement as he said it! Now do you or do you not have a set!!!???????

In my lifetime I have seen fence row to fence row farming and the return of CRP and game to the landscape.Now we face again the prosepect of fence row to fence row again! Sportsman are our own worst enemy in that we fail to look forward and focus to much on the now!

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gst Said:

Hardwaterman Said:
You going to have the balls to go on record or not ? Make your position crystal clear so that everyone knows exactly where you stand on this disaster!! You always want others to answer so now it is your turn!!!!!

easy there with the balls talk ron, your starting to make me think back to the HFH debate over on Nodak, you remember your childish comments from that one right ron?

Ron,where are you manners, you have a few questions waiting there fella.

but to try and avoid 8 pages of you demanding  an answer while insulting the size of my testicles,

Hardwaterman Said:

So lets cut the bull shit and get down to brass tacks. Since you are siding with Bundy and his supporters, are you willing to go on record and stand behind his statement that he does not recognize the Fed Gov? I stand behind what I believe is the intent of his statement that he does not recognize the Federal govts claim to the forage rights that are tied to the water rights in the state of Nevada. Will you post the specific quote in it's entirity from Mr, Bundy ron? Are you supporting armed acts of violence by him or his supporters? Of course I do  not support "armed acts of violence" only the right granted under our constitution in the 2nd amendment. You do support that right  as well don;t you ron?
Answer these two questions. DO so and put your name to it not a screen name. Have the balls to put your name out there since you are so willing to do so with others!! Or are you going to run away from reality again!!!
Gabe Thompson Jr.

Now ron will you live up to your own standards and answer the questions posed to you?

Or will you follow others suit and claim these are not answers and go on insulting the size of my testicles?

(ron you seem to have some fascination with the male anatomy when you are backed onto a corner in these debates.  I never thought my testicular tenacity would be a topic on a hunting and fishing site! )

guess we know.

Exactly what "quote" are you referencing ron? The snippet from the Jon Stewart video?

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I believe this is a sovereign state of Nevada,”. “I abide by all of Nevada state laws. But I don’t recognize the United States government as even existing.”  

Bundy said in a radio interview that is his statement and you are backing him, so do you agree with him or not????????????

Pretty simple yes or no question, no intent, no more Bull!!!

In my lifetime I have seen fence row to fence row farming and the return of CRP and game to the landscape.Now we face again the prosepect of fence row to fence row again! Sportsman are our own worst enemy in that we fail to look forward and focus to much on the now!

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great quote for a poster boy!! Go Bundy GO!!!!!!!!!! Yeeeee Hawwwwwww!!!!

Now do you get why he is a losing hand?

People hear this and go WTF!!!

Then find out as I said he screwed himself and they stop listening!!!!

In my lifetime I have seen fence row to fence row farming and the return of CRP and game to the landscape.Now we face again the prosepect of fence row to fence row again! Sportsman are our own worst enemy in that we fail to look forward and focus to much on the now!

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Hardwaterman Said:
I believe this is a sovereign state of Nevada,”. “I abide by all of Nevada state laws. But I don’t recognize the United States government as even existing.”  

Bundy said in a radio interview that is his statement and you are backing him, so do you agree with him or not????????????

Pretty simple yes or no question, no intent, no more Bull!!!

If that is indeed his quote in full context of course I do not agree with it.

Is that what your resting your entire arguement on ron?

It was stated that Mr. Bundy is likely not the most articulate person to have speaking. After how many nights of likely little sleep and countless interviews and being the center of national attention as you have snipers training teir weapons on your family over grazing fees it would be interesting to dissect each and every statement you would make ron.

I mean you have time to actually stop and read what your write before you hit the submit button and you still spout of foolish bloviating that makes this look pretty minor.

Now ron both questions have been directly answered, will you do the same?

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Hardwaterman Said:
great quote for a poster boy!! Go Bundy GO!!!!!!!!!! Yeeeee Hawwwwwww!!!!

Now do you get why he is a losing hand?

People hear this and go WTF!!!

Then find out as I said he screwed himself and they stop listening!!!!

Ron, did Cliven Bundy go out seeking this attention or was it brought to his doorstep by 200 armed Federal agents and snipers?

for some reason I don;t think he was actively seeking the poster boy nomination.

that is to get you warmed up for answering the numerous questions you have ignored ron.

that is if you have the testiculal fortitude.

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So in your own words you do not support Bundy nor the armed standoff!!! Good to know!!

In my lifetime I have seen fence row to fence row farming and the return of CRP and game to the landscape.Now we face again the prosepect of fence row to fence row again! Sportsman are our own worst enemy in that we fail to look forward and focus to much on the now!

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Hardwaterman Said:
So in your own words you do not support Bundy nor the armed standoff!!! Good to know!!

Aw ron if you are going to make disingenuous statements, try to make it one that is not so foolish.

I mean hell ron what was said is only a couple posts up! You could have at least waited till another new page of bullshit had been posted before making your false claim.

What was said is that I do not "agree" with his claim to not recognize the US govt if indeed that was the full and complete statement.

Most anyone,  (but the small handful of people coming here from over on nodak cause there is no one talking about this there),  see your disingenuous claim ron.

Once again ron, that is all you have?

I mean you could have just said my Momma wears army boots.

ron did you listen to the Wayne Hage interviews pber posted?

damn, ron the questions are starting to pile up.

Don;t forget to sign your name hard.

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Got to call er a nite there ron, why don;t you sleep on those questions and tackle them in the morning.

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Ron, did Cliven Bundy go out seeking this attention or was it brought to his doorstep by 200 armed Federal agents and snipers?

Crooks don't like attention that's why I like motion lights around my house.

As far as snipers I was watching a program and the snipers on the ridges were federal alright, but they were watching the BLM compound a mile away.  I guess they thought the nut jobs may mean harm to innocent people.

If that is indeed his quote in full context of course I do not agree with it.

That took long enough.  Like pulling teeth.

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Just remember who started this pissing match.  Federal government had to poke the guy with a stick back in 1993.  Are we a nation where a damn tortoise and crony political deals are more important than people and ranching?  Really?

Many farmers or people with farm backgrounds post on this site.  You wait until the EPA grabs you guys by the balls soon.  Lots of EPA rules coming down the pike and could cost you big money.  I wonder if that will be ok or will you push back?

Don't believe me?  Look what they have done to farmers in CA in the last few years.

"The only enemy of guns is rust and politicians."

"The best defense against usurpatory government is an assertive citizenry."

William F. Buckley, Jr.
"Unarmed helplessness is for sheep and the French."  Ted Nugent

"The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it."
 -Thomas Jefferson

The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.
-Thomas Jefferson

 

 

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Fritz the Cat Said:

Ron said,

He had no documentation to prove he had pertetual grazing rights that where granted prior to 1848 he had no proof of his claim. It really is that simple.
 

It's not perpetual grazing rights, they are called patented. If anyone does an exhaustive chain of title to their property they will find the very first owner received a patent.

During the Homestead Act, each individual got 160 acres and had to live there and prove up. In Nevada the land is sparse and it was decided they needed more acres. Lands surrounding those 160 were tied to the land so that the homesteader could make a livng. Patented.

They did a lot of things to settle the west. This was before the industrial revolution and the cow was the ultimate walking mini- factory. They raised horses and mules for the army. That is until 1972 when Congress passed the Wild horse and Burro Act where-by the government took over the management of wild horses. What a disaster. 

Ron, I posted the above a page ago and you must have missed it as you spun out of control posting late last night.

Clive Bundy refused to sign his lease in 1993. Wayne Hage instead wrote a book about it. Storm over Rangelands 1989. For writing that book and giving the ranchers some hope, the BLM targeted him first.

Wayne Hage went to court and it took until 2002 before the Final Decision and Finding of Fact. He was awarded something like $3 million but the feds appealed and I don't believe the Hage estate has received anything.

Clive Bundy has Patented Rights same as Wayne Hage. Hypothetically, had Wayne Hage won his court battles in 1993 right now would Clive Bundy be considered a criminal?

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Plainsman Said:

Ron, did Cliven Bundy go out seeking this attention or was it brought to his doorstep by 200 armed Federal agents and snipers?

Crooks don't like attention that's why I like motion lights around my house.

As far as snipers I was watching a program and the snipers on the ridges were federal alright, but they were watching the BLM compound a mile away.  I guess they thought the nut jobs may mean harm to innocent people.

Prove it. With your history of bullshit......................You do know these snipers were there at the very start of this encounter right?

Continue the bind defense of your fellow govt employees bruce.

If that is indeed his quote in full context of course I do not agree with it.

That took long enough.  Like pulling teeth.

Less than one page. How many questions have you left unanswered?

By rons testicular standard, you are quite the eunuch.

Credibility.

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cynical Said:
Just remember who started this pissing match.  Federal government had to poke the guy with a stick back in 1993.  Are we a nation where a damn tortoise and crony political deals are more important than people and ranching?  Really?

Many farmers or people with farm backgrounds post on this site.  You wait until the EPA grabs you guys by the balls soon.  Lots of EPA rules coming down the pike and could cost you big money.  I wonder if that will be ok or will you push back?

Don't believe me?  Look what they have done to farmers in CA in the last few years.

People like Bruce and ron will not care. Bruce will actually rejoice in the expansion of Federal control and authority.

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Listen to the following interview with Wayne Hage Sr.  He talks about tactics used by the BLM and Forest Service.  He addresses water rights and grazing rights in the west. 

He talks about one rancher who was his neighbor that was affected by the Wild Horse and Burro Act.  Ranchers in the area also had their own horses amongst the cows that they run.  With this Act, the government told the ranchers they could no longer go and round up their own horses as it would disturb the wild horses.  They then put a 3-year moratorium on this rancher's grazing area where he could not collect his horses.  Then after 3 years they told him he could collect only his branded horses.  The rancher said wait a minute my horses had young over those 3 years.  They then said okay you can go ahead and collect all your horses but you have to pay a trespass fee on all those unbranded horses because you don't have a permit to run that many horses.  The fee ended up being more than the horses were worth.  So then most of the ranchers abandoned their horse herds and the BLM had instant wild horse herds to manage.  In the case of Mr. Hage's neighbor this went on for years until 170 head of horses turned into 2000 and were eating all his forage and drinking his water that he was pumping for this cattle at great cost to him.  He then had to go to court and he did win the case due to the fact that the BLM had purposely allowed those horse numbers to expand to try to drive him out of business. 

Here is the full uncut interview with Mr. Hage.  Very, very informative. 

vimeo.com/8520897

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People like Bruce and ron will not care. Bruce will actually rejoice in the expansion of Federal control and authority.
 

Wrong again.  I agree with cynicals post above about the EPA.  That is why ranchers and farmers need to be smart and present a reasonable side to the public.  When my image of ranchers was being destroyed by you and Fritz the post Ron had about farmers not agreeing with Bundy restored my faith that most are good people.  Ron's ability to condemn illegal actions even while a landowner himself speaks volumes of his integrity.  Ranchers and farmers who take up arms to aid a person who lost in court will lend assistance to those who oppose them.  Like I keep saying our brain is still our best weapon. 
Cynical I do agree with your post.  I have talked with people who know what's going on.  Those who think tile is going to be a great help are in for a headache beyond their wildest imagination.  Part of it will be their own fault, part will be the fault of the manufactures making money off it, part will be the governments fault.  In all cases greed will be the underlying driving mechanics of the problem.  It's a political/social problem and were all at fault.  We will only survive this crap if we can get away from the me me me syndrome that plagues us all.  Before gst goes nuts please notice I said all which includes me.

pbr wrote:  He talks about one rancher who was his neighbor that was affected by the Wild Horse and Burro Act. 

I separate the illegal actions of Bundy from all of this.  I can agree with you on the wild horses and burros.  They cause a lot more problems with the environment than a few cows.  If we ever get a chance to control the wild horses we would be better of shooting them all so they would never be a problem for us again.  People are thinking with their heart and not their brain and your heart will let you down most of the time.  These people who think they are environmentalists couldn't be more wrong.  Wild horses left unchecked are causing many problems yet the government agencies turn a blind eye.  Why?  Because it's all political and the public relations battle is being won by the emotional rather than the logical.  Again I'll say our best weapon is still our brain and I don't see Bundy supporters or gst, or Fritz fighting this intelligently.  Hire yourself a biologist, and make sure he is over 50 years old and not educated in today's brain dead emotional classroom.  Then attack from the biological/environmental position.  I know the word environmental today has taken on a bad connotation to many conservatives, but I think we are all environmentalists truth be told.  No conservative wants their kids breathing dirty air, drinking dirty water etc.  The reality is I think you, gst, Fritz, Ron, myself all are really environmentalists.  We differ in our perspectives, but have many of the same goals.  Sorry when I ramble I forget paragraphs and punctuation. 

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Fritz the Cat Said:

Fritz the Cat Said:

Ron said,

He had no documentation to prove he had pertetual grazing rights that where granted prior to 1848 he had no proof of his claim. It really is that simple.
 

It's not perpetual grazing rights, they are called patented. If anyone does an exhaustive chain of title to their property they will find the very first owner received a patent.

During the Homestead Act, each individual got 160 acres and had to live there and prove up. In Nevada the land is sparse and it was decided they needed more acres. Lands surrounding those 160 were tied to the land so that the homesteader could make a livng. Patented.

They did a lot of things to settle the west. This was before the industrial revolution and the cow was the ultimate walking mini- factory. They raised horses and mules for the army. That is until 1972 when Congress passed the Wild horse and Burro Act where-by the government took over the management of wild horses. What a disaster. 

Ron, I posted the above a page ago and you must have missed it as you spun out of control posting late last night.

Clive Bundy refused to sign his lease in 1993. Wayne Hage instead wrote a book about it. Storm over Rangelands 1989. For writing that book and giving the ranchers some hope, the BLM targeted him first.

Wayne Hage went to court and it took until 2002 before the Final Decision and Finding of Fact. He was awarded something like $3 million but the feds appealed and I don't believe the Hage estate has received anything.

Clive Bundy has Patented Rights same as Wayne Hage. Hypothetically, had Wayne Hage won his court battles in 1993 right now would Clive Bundy be considered a criminal?

Fritz, ron is too busy childishly demanding answers to his questions to answer any.

It is odd how ron suddenly has become an expert on the Hage case since someone else brought it into the discussion about this issue. If he knew so much about it, why would he have not mentioned it on his own when this Bundy disaster first broke?

Even Wayne Hage, who ron and bruce have both admitted was in the right and should be the spokesperson for this issue has came out in strong support of Cliven Bundy..

And now it appears they wish to ignore this.

Plainsamn, former life long government employee defends the heavily armed BLM agents and calls this ranching family.  which Mr. Hage has known personally since childhood and claims are simple good honest people,  "domestic terrorists, thieves, and nut jobs.

They refuse to answer questions directly relating to the facts of this case that Mr Hage whom they support (if indeed they do) claims are central to the Bundys cause.

Instead attacking personally  those who would point them out.

Testicular fortitude and credibility seem lacking.by their own standards.

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Even Wayne Hage, who ron and bruce have both admitted was in the right and should be the spokesperson for this issue has came out in strong support of Cliven Bundy..

Let me try wrap my mind around that.  So what your saying is because a man was correct once he must be correct this time.  So Hage's support erases all doubt is that what your really saying?  Actually it is what your saying.  I guess me question is, is that what you meant?

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Plainsman Said:

People like Bruce and ron will not care. Bruce will actually rejoice in the expansion of Federal control and authority.
 

Wrong again.  I agree with cynicals post above about the EPA. 

That is why ranchers and farmers need to be smart and present a reasonable side to the public.  When my image of ranchers was being destroyed by you and Fritz the post Ron had about farmers not agreeing with Bundy restored my faith that most are good people.  Ron's ability to condemn illegal actions even while a landowner himself speaks volumes of his integrity.  Ranchers and farmers who take up arms to aid a person who lost in court will lend assistance to those who oppose them.  Like I keep saying our brain is still our best weapon. 
Cynical I do agree with your post.  I have talked with people who know what's going on.  Those who think tile is going to be a great help are in for a headache beyond their wildest imagination.  Part of it will be their own fault, part will be the fault of the manufactures making money off it, part will be the governments fault.  In all cases greed will be the underlying driving mechanics of the problem.  It's a political/social problem and were all at fault.  We will only survive this crap if we can get away from the me me me syndrome that plagues us all.  Before gst goes nuts please notice I said all which includes me.

Credibility

Bruce you blindly defend bringing the very out of state non profit group who has an official "collaboration with the EPA to expand these controls and regulations , The Nature Conservancy, into our state to amend our constitution.

You defend their bringing millions in out of state dollars into ND to change our constitution and gain access to billions of dollars.

You blindly defend the fraudulent actions of the sponsors who are accepting these out of state dollars from this non profit that has an official collaboration with the EPA to expand govt over reach into our state.

Your actions speak louder than your false claims Bruce.

http://water.epa.gov/polwaste/nps/watershed/upload/hwi-mou.pdf

Credibility

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Aw ron if you are going to make disingenuous statements, try to make it one that is not so foolish.
 

All I did was what you do all the time. You made the claim I want Fed take over etc. Plainsman challenged you on that. How does it feel to be treated in the same manner you have others?

No sense bothering reading your posts any longer, because regardless of what you pull out the reality is as I have said.

Bundy wrong!!!

Blm wrong!!!

Either being wrong does not give the other justification to break the law!!!

Simple as that!!

So cut and paste away because there is nothing new, just regurgitated bs from you.

Done with this, go back to posting10-14 in a row for your ego, its funny as hell!!!!!!!!!!!

In my lifetime I have seen fence row to fence row farming and the return of CRP and game to the landscape.Now we face again the prosepect of fence row to fence row again! Sportsman are our own worst enemy in that we fail to look forward and focus to much on the now!

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Plainsman Said:

Even Wayne Hage, who ron and bruce have both admitted was in the right and should be the spokesperson for this issue has came out in strong support of Cliven Bundy..

Let me try wrap my mind around that.  So what your saying is because a man was correct once he must be correct this time.  So Hage's support erases all doubt is that what your really saying?  Actually it is what your saying.  I guess me question is, is that what you meant?

What I am saying quite clearly is Mr. Hages credibility based on his expertise as an actual lawyer and someone who knows this issue and the people involved far better than YOU or ron is MUCH more substantial and credible and yet you seem to refuse to acknowledge his position on this issue and the Bundy family.

Are you know denying Wayne Hages credibility bruce?

. From an earlier post bruce, it kinda lays it on the line.

gst Said:

 

So lets get to the "brass tacks" here,

On one hand there is an actual lawyer that has successfully been to court and had the very claims he suggests Mr Bundy has, upheld in court overturning the BLM claims.

This actual real lawyer is siding with Cliven Bundy and seems to think he has the same right of ownership of the water and forage as he did in his own successful case against the BLM.

Other actual lawyers that have experience in these cases are suggesting Mr Bundy has standing.

And then on the other side of the scale we have the Honorable Judge Gilmore, (void of any actual legal title of recognition) recognized legal authority here on FBO only in his own mind., and the precedence set by his honor seems to be call anyone that disagrees with him a "dumb ass".

Hmmm, let me think about that one a minute.

So Bruce exactly what credibility do YOU have to offset the above especially after you and ron have gone on and on about how Wayne Hage was right and knew what he was doing and should be the person held up for others to listen to?

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