Nevada BLM actions background

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sickofthesmoke's picture
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Where is the outrage over the f@@@ing farmers and their welfare they get every year to raise crops they know won't work? People are all for the govt. as long as it benefits them. Little dothey know they are signing away their freedom every time they sign a contract and report their acreage. I used to be in the "program", but I'm not anymore. They call sometimes three times a week using an almost threatening dialogue to try to get me to report my acreage. They just can't stand not knowing. The last rep that I talked to really ticked me off and I told her to mind her own f##$ing business. This is about government control and nothing else.

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What if some farmer was in violation of some govt regulation and said farmer descided to get out rather than comply. Would the govt. send armed thugs to collect or maybe they would put on the news that said farmer owes 2 million back to the govt for benefits received over the years. Can you imagine the uproar?????

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Fritz the Cat Said:
Hey Plainsman,

Trying to find a silver lining in here.

Let's say Bundy gets bucked off his horse and is gone tomorrow, but the voters in Nevada are finally fed up with dingy Harry and they vote him out, would that be a bad thing?

Would we you to put you on suicide watch because one of your hero's of conservation was gone from Washington DC?

I don't want Bundy hurt, just honest.  Harry Reid gone would be great.  The NRA ticked me off when they supported him last time.  I still can't figure that out.  At least I heard they supported him because of money for some shooting range.

You know every time you start to make some sense you have to crap in it and make a dumb statement like the last sentence.  In one post you go from reasonable to idiot.  I actually don't think Reid is a conservationist if that's who you were hinting at.  They should throw him and Bundy in the same cell. 

Sickofthesmoke I understand your last post.  I would be frustrated in your position also.  I can see supporting landowners like yourself.  Please don't take my frustration with Fritz and gst supporting a criminal as not supporting farmers in your position.  Evidently your one of a few that are actually independent people.  My hats off to you. 

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Hardwaterman Said:
cynical, are you like gabe and have a reading comprehension problem as well? I stated clearly that they feel that Congress needs to reign in the over reach by them, but unlike you, they realize that this is where the fix has to come or from the courts.

It changes nothing in regards to Bundy and his poor choices that created the mess he put himself in.

So you want to pee in their oatmeal and defend and champion Bundy go right ahead, because it is not going to garner any support to put restraint and controls back in place on the BLM or other Gov. agencies that are doing the bidding of the current administration.

If you are as dense as Gabe and cannot see this and see then rant away all you want. None of what they have possibly done wrong makes what Bundy and the armed idiots are attempting right!!

As I said to Fritz put the right face forward to get the public support for change, stop parading Bundy and the armed supporters as the face of the change you desire. It fall flat even with people that are more inclined to have supporting views!!!

The issue you have listed is worth exposing, sharing and seeking correct answers to. So are the proposed rule changes the EPA is seeking regarding waterways. All of that are worth exposing to the light of day and people both ag and non ag related can and would and will support the rights of landowners. BUT KEEP USING BUNDY AND IT WILL BE YOUR OATMEAL THAT GETS DOUSED!!!!!

Ok,  great hardwaterman.  These issues have been known by people paying attention for years and nothing has been done to fix them.  Exactly what do you propose doing?  Write another letter?  I think Cliven was smart.  He knew the people in power would do nothing so why not take his stance.  Really what other option did he have?  Meet with his congressional delegates from NV and beg for help?  Some of them want to bury ranching.  Yeah,  legally he may have done a poor job articulating his position and could have been more tactful but what do you expect from a rancher/farmer?  He needs legal help and it is sad that some powerful groups didn't step in years ago to help.  Your buddies sit back and mock the guy when if they were in his position they would whine like a little girl about it.  Probably wouldnt be men enough to make a stand.  They would just bend over and take it.  But hey,  at least they wouldn't be defying the government.  Government ain't always right.  Our history is full of men with guts who stood up to wrong doing.  I say Cliven has guts.  What say you?

I'll make an analogy,  lets say somehow congress passes a bill or Obama goes executive order to ban hunting on BLM land.  What you gonna do about it?  Shrug your shoulders and say oh well and go on your merry way?

"The only enemy of guns is rust and politicians."

"The best defense against usurpatory government is an assertive citizenry."

William F. Buckley, Jr.
"Unarmed helplessness is for sheep and the French."  Ted Nugent

"The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it."
 -Thomas Jefferson

The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.
-Thomas Jefferson

 

 

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Fritz the Cat Said:
Plains,

That is what everyone has been trying to tell you for ions. Private land looks better then public. Private houses look better then public housing, private bathrooms look better then public ones etc. etc.

We in ND certainly don't want "more" headaches "more" public land. You just said it.

Thank you thank you thank you

I'd love more public land. Most people I know would too. 

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BringingTheRain Said:
 
Fritz the Cat Said:
Plains,

That is what everyone has been trying to tell you for ions. Private land looks better then public. Private houses look better then public housing, private bathrooms look better then public ones etc. etc.

We in ND certainly don't want "more" headaches "more" public land. You just said it.

Thank you thank you thank you

I'd love more public land. Most people I know would too. 

would be alot more useful if the state was in control  of it than the feds

 Adn

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thanks for at least being honest that you think he was smart! What is going to have left when this is all done. Judgements that are legally applied against his cattle and property that will be executed and rightfully so? What a dumbass he was.

The reality is that Hage Family and others are the people that need to be out front and being shown. Instead you want an idiot to be your face! My goodness listen to him ramble the more he talks the more people realize he is clueless!

Public concern and support will and has changed things, will again. But to do that you cannot alienate people that you need support from!! you certainly do not need people like Gabe even though in your minds he is carrying the fight. The people on the edges or those who have a mild interest hear and see the crap he spews like Bundy and they forget about the underlying issues that really are important.

I really got that shown to me last night when the group pulled up and read his continued BS claims and trying to mix and cloud the issues. The Feds moving in did bring this to light, but now the story of what has really happened has been told. Everyone that championed him now has lost the interest and respect that is needed to keep a concern alive.

Truth and fairness are mutually required to change things. not deception and false hoods! Every farm and ranch organization should have been heralding the victory of the Hage family but outside of a few people in this state I doubt they even knew about it. WHY? Everyone knows about the idiot Bundy, very few know about the background though nor about the things you posted about or even the EPA rules. Your good at demonizing at a local level but are clueless to the rest. Someone in FL or Maine not connected do not care, when they see the events around Bundy. but will care and be concerned when people like the Hage family get presented. Outside of the local area there was Little to no coverage of their win. It should been in our papers, on our news and that is because your groups do not get that the ordinary people do not want to see hard working families get the shaft. Losers in court and free loaders do not generate that kind of good will.

When Hage family won, did the Stockmen's Assn. in ND hold a news conference to discuss the victory and start to educate the people on the issues? Did FU or FB for that matter? No they sent out the news letter or email to the people in the Org thinking they have been proactive.  .

Believe it or not we are not the enemy but supporters, but that support will not come when Bundy and people like him are the face!!!+++

Change and how to fix it! Congress is the fix, Hoeven, Heitkamp  others who can attend to business and not grand stand over it. I saw Ron Paul and others from Wash shooting off their mouths, that does nothing! Educate communicate not denigrate and insinuate. Read my very first post on this subject here. To the point and accurate. Instead of working and building on it Gabe lies and trys to imply Reid was involved in Bundy chosing to not renew because of the China deal. He says otherwise but that is what he implied and it is not my opinion alone!  ++

Separate the issues make the case on the BLM, both past and current, show what needs to be done, where it should be fixed, ask for support in getting that done. I know I will be doing just that!

But stop the bull shit!!! Accept and acknowledge that Bundy screwed himself, accept the fact the courts where right in the findings and the Gov has the right to stop the trespass and then get on point on how to fix and avoid this in the future, ask for help in contacting and hearing from the voters. One letter means nothing three hundred is going to get attention if you get my drift.

I pointed out a while back that the interest in the media and social media started to drop was when the facts came out. The simple fact is that now the BLM is still free to continue uncheck and not being looked at because like Bundy people like you chose wrong and lost any advantage of public support outside of your click from occurring.

As a whole people do not hate ag produers but do not support people like Bundy nor would they support people that speak the rhetoric of Gabe and you it seems. Learn from this!!

There is a major fight coming yet from a lot of places inside this Adm from EPA rules to BLM and Forest Service etc..... They know if they keep you in your click without the support from others they can silence you. Do not take actions that drive support away. That is what happened and is continuing to happen in NV as long as Bundy is championed. Pull your head out and think about it~~~

See what others see, hear what others hear, and understand what they are thinking!!

I heard it loud and clear last night, not what I expected when the subject came up! You do not even have the support on this one from within the ranks of Ag and the reason is you are backing the face!!! Bundy and supporters of him have done more to set you back than anyone else!!! Think about that~! If you do not have legal standing on claims don't support them just because!!! That is the problem there is never any admission that someone from your ranks can or could do or be wrong. Not going to win with that attitude.

You get outside your comfort circle and listen!! Bundy is poison or cancer that until cut away will continue to rot away. Lose the poor me attitude, and superior attitude as well make people feel that they have an interest in seeing all users of public lands get a fair shake. From the rancher to the hiker from native species to those introduced by man. Make that effort to restore that collective feeling of unity. Sportsmen would join not wanting the BLM to stop their access, others who are not hunters but have a vision of the cowboy want that to remain. Others as well are getting tired or all the red tape and rule changes. These are all allies! The issue is the rule makers and they come out of Washingon so fix it there!!

In my lifetime I have seen fence row to fence row farming and the return of CRP and game to the landscape.Now we face again the prosepect of fence row to fence row again! Sportsman are our own worst enemy in that we fail to look forward and focus to much on the now!

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Say you got to the point in your political career in Washington that you could do something. First thing that come to mind is lets get some term limits. How long would your political career last? My guess is not very long. They tar and feather you by digging up dirt, or calling you a racist or a bigot, or if that doesn't work they say you don't care about the environment. One way or another your political career will be over and the crooks stay while the ones fighting for whats right are gone.

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BringingTheRain Said:
 

Fritz the Cat Said:
Plains,

That is what everyone has been trying to tell you for ions. Private land looks better then public. Private houses look better then public housing, private bathrooms look better then public ones etc. etc.

We in ND certainly don't want "more" headaches "more" public land. You just said it.

Thank you thank you thank you

I'd love more public land. Most people I know would too. 

What would you do with it?

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E.Springers Said:
Gst... you have stooped to new lows in your unwillingness to acknowledge fellow ranchers and farmers are capable of being wrong. This mother fucker doesn't own the land, doesn't recognize the us government, can't prove his water rights, has lost his court battles, refuses to appeal cause he knows he will lose, thumbs his nose at the order to get his cows off someone else's property, won't pay his debt and then takes up arms against the authorities who are attempting to enforce a legal court order using women as human shields. These aren't jim crow laws and he ain't np Rosa parks or martin Luther king.... he is a fucking god damn terrorist and a criminal and if he gets a bullet in the head, he deserves it. I can't believe even you have tried to defend him for 12 pages... its a new low for the defender of all things ag...

Easy there big fella.

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Hardwaterman Said:

So again gst I have addressed why I am calling you a bold faced liar one more time and it is very simple to follow and understand.

Indeed it is ron, by your own standards you do not understand 3rd grade English or 3rd grade reading. .

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Plainsman Said:

Among the conservation measures required are the elimination of livestock grazing

It's public land why should grazing be the number one priority.  Where has anyone said it should be number one priority? These lands as ladd mentioned were entered into multiple use agreements. The govt is breaking those agreements.

And the Founding Fathers should have just paid the taxes on the tea I suppose as well.


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Hardwaterman Said:

The longer this goes and the more Bundy speaks and the real facts get out, the more damage this moron is doing to people who are being wronged. Public support and opinions are quickly turning against them as a result of Bundy and his minions. A good number of them where really shocked as well at your and Gabes comments, especially Gabes attempt to cloud the issue with outright likes via insinuation. They all read my responses to this as well, smart phones handy. So take what I am saying as this! They broke down the issues much as I had in my postings!

Nice story ron.

Prove what I have posted is not factual.

Funny, I was at a bull sale today and not one single rancher thought the BLM was in the right. Not one single rancher thought this was actually about grazing fees.

They all know there is a concerted effort to remove cattle from these lands for a variety of agenda driven reasons one of which is development at the hands of Sen. Reids cohorts.

But then again, most were pretty well informed.

Caught What's on Your Mind on the way home, seems like most people had a very different veiw than what you are claiming ron.

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Hardwaterman Said:
Fritz I have read a good deal on the Hage Family

given the 3rd grade level of your reading ability and lack of understanding of basic English ron, that really doesn't mean much.

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Hardwaterman Said:

There needs to be a push to look into his dealings with the Chinnese and the nepotism as well. It will not happen though when Bundy is the catalyst to promote that type of action.

ron you do know Issa already has started this right? Even despite your expert opinion.

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Hardwaterman Said:
cynical, are you like gabe and have a reading comprehension problem as well?

If you are as dense as Gabe

Is, was, past tense, present tense........................... all so confusing eh ron.

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Plainsman Said: 
Sickofthesmoke I understand your last post.  I would be frustrated in your position also.  I can see supporting landowners like yourself.  Please don't take my frustration with Fritz and gst supporting a criminal as not supporting farmers in your position.  Evidently your one of a few that are actually independent people.  My hats off to you. 

Ah, page 3 of the liberal handbook, division.

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cynical Said:

Hardwaterman Said:
cynical, are you like gabe and have a reading comprehension problem as well? I stated clearly that they feel that Congress needs to reign in the over reach by them, but unlike you, they realize that this is where the fix has to come or from the courts.

It changes nothing in regards to Bundy and his poor choices that created the mess he put himself in.

So you want to pee in their oatmeal and defend and champion Bundy go right ahead, because it is not going to garner any support to put restraint and controls back in place on the BLM or other Gov. agencies that are doing the bidding of the current administration.

If you are as dense as Gabe and cannot see this and see then rant away all you want. None of what they have possibly done wrong makes what Bundy and the armed idiots are attempting right!!

As I said to Fritz put the right face forward to get the public support for change, stop parading Bundy and the armed supporters as the face of the change you desire. It fall flat even with people that are more inclined to have supporting views!!!

The issue you have listed is worth exposing, sharing and seeking correct answers to. So are the proposed rule changes the EPA is seeking regarding waterways. All of that are worth exposing to the light of day and people both ag and non ag related can and would and will support the rights of landowners. BUT KEEP USING BUNDY AND IT WILL BE YOUR OATMEAL THAT GETS DOUSED!!!!!

Ok,  great hardwaterman.  These issues have been known by people paying attention for years and nothing has been done to fix them.  Exactly what do you propose doing?  Write another letter?  I think Cliven was smart.  He knew the people in power would do nothing so why not take his stance.  Really what other option did he have?  Meet with his congressional delegates from NV and beg for help?  Some of them want to bury ranching.  Yeah,  legally he may have done a poor job articulating his position and could have been more tactful but what do you expect from a rancher/farmer?  He needs legal help and it is sad that some powerful groups didn't step in years ago to help.  Your buddies sit back and mock the guy when if they were in his position they would whine like a little girl about it.  Probably wouldnt be men enough to make a stand.  They would just bend over and take it.  But hey,  at least they wouldn't be defying the government.  Government ain't always right.  Our history is full of men with guts who stood up to wrong doing.  I say Cliven has guts.  What say you?

I'll make an analogy,  lets say somehow congress passes a bill or Obama goes executive order to ban hunting on BLM land.  What you gonna do about it?  Shrug your shoulders and say oh well and go on your merry way?

But yet ron reads up on it abit ands suddenly is an expert. Reminiscent of the "Ranching 101" thread.

 cynical don;t expect much for answers.

I really wonder what the Founding Fathers would think of a few of these comments.

plaisnman I can understand, as a life long govt emnployee he was likely broke ot the yoke long ago.

btr, progressive liberal ideals explain much.

ron is a self proclaimed conservative, yet sees to wish to ignore how this nation was formed and the responsibilities to stand up to govt the creators expected to control govt and keep alive what they had given us.

Really if you stop and think about it, it is shameful.

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Hardwaterman Said:
thanks for at least being honest that you think he was smart! What is going to have left when this is all done. Judgements that are legally applied against his cattle and property that will be executed and rightfully so? What a dumbass he was.

The reality is that Hage Family and others are the people that need to be out front and being shown. Instead you want an idiot to be your face! My goodness listen to him ramble the more he talks the more people realize he is clueless!

Public concern and support will and has changed things, will again. But to do that you cannot alienate people that you need support from!! you certainly do not need people like Gabe even though in your minds he is carrying the fight. The people on the edges or those who have a mild interest hear and see the crap he spews like Bundy and they forget about the underlying issues that really are important.

I really got that shown to me last night when the group pulled up and read his continued BS claims and trying to mix and cloud the issues. The Feds moving in did bring this to light, but now the story of what has really happened has been told. Everyone that championed him now has lost the interest and respect that is needed to keep a concern alive.

Truth and fairness are mutually required to change things. not deception and false hoods! Every farm and ranch organization should have been heralding the victory of the Hage family but outside of a few people in this state I doubt they even knew about it. WHY? Everyone knows about the idiot Bundy, very few know about the background though nor about the things you posted about or even the EPA rules. Your good at demonizing at a local level but are clueless to the rest. Someone in FL or Maine not connected do not care, when they see the events around Bundy. but will care and be concerned when people like the Hage family get presented. Outside of the local area there was Little to no coverage of their win. It should been in our papers, on our news and that is because your groups do not get that the ordinary people do not want to see hard working families get the shaft. Losers in court and free loaders do not generate that kind of good will.

When Hage family won, did the Stockmen's Assn. in ND hold a news conference to discuss the victory and start to educate the people on the issues? Did FU or FB for that matter? No they sent out the news letter or email to the people in the Org thinking they have been proactive.  .

Believe it or not we are not the enemy but supporters, but that support will not come when Bundy and people like him are the face!!!+++

Change and how to fix it! Congress is the fix, Hoeven, Heitkamp  others who can attend to business and not grand stand over it. I saw Ron Paul and others from Wash shooting off their mouths, that does nothing! Educate communicate not denigrate and insinuate. Read my very first post on this subject here. To the point and accurate. Instead of working and building on it Gabe lies and trys to imply Reid was involved in Bundy chosing to not renew because of the China deal. He says otherwise but that is what he implied and it is not my opinion alone!  ++

Separate the issues make the case on the BLM, both past and current, show what needs to be done, where it should be fixed, ask for support in getting that done. I know I will be doing just that!

But stop the bull shit!!! Accept and acknowledge that Bundy screwed himself, accept the fact the courts where right in the findings and the Gov has the right to stop the trespass and then get on point on how to fix and avoid this in the future, ask for help in contacting and hearing from the voters. One letter means nothing three hundred is going to get attention if you get my drift.

I pointed out a while back that the interest in the media and social media started to drop was when the facts came out. The simple fact is that now the BLM is still free to continue uncheck and not being looked at because like Bundy people like you chose wrong and lost any advantage of public support outside of your click from occurring.

As a whole people do not hate ag produers but do not support people like Bundy nor would they support people that speak the rhetoric of Gabe and you it seems. Learn from this!!

There is a major fight coming yet from a lot of places inside this Adm from EPA rules to BLM and Forest Service etc..... They know if they keep you in your click without the support from others they can silence you. Do not take actions that drive support away. That is what happened and is continuing to happen in NV as long as Bundy is championed. Pull your head out and think about it~~~

See what others see, hear what others hear, and understand what they are thinking!!

I heard it loud and clear last night, not what I expected when the subject came up! You do not even have the support on this one from within the ranks of Ag and the reason is you are backing the face!!! Bundy and supporters of him have done more to set you back than anyone else!!! Think about that~! If you do not have legal standing on claims don't support them just because!!! That is the problem there is never any admission that someone from your ranks can or could do or be wrong. Not going to win with that attitude.

You get outside your comfort circle and listen!! Bundy is poison or cancer that until cut away will continue to rot away. Lose the poor me attitude, and superior attitude as well make people feel that they have an interest in seeing all users of public lands get a fair shake. From the rancher to the hiker from native species to those introduced by man. Make that effort to restore that collective feeling of unity. Sportsmen would join not wanting the BLM to stop their access, others who are not hunters but have a vision of the cowboy want that to remain. Others as well are getting tired or all the red tape and rule changes. These are all allies! The issue is the rule makers and they come out of Washingon so fix it there!!

A mighty fine example of "bloviating" ron.

Could you please actually prove by quoting exactly where I have "lied"?

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boy, take a day off to buy a couple bulls and the hens really get to clucking.

ron, your accusations of someone being a liar are only credible if you can prove where they lied beyond your "opinion".

No matter how highly you may regard it, it is not judge and jury.

And besides ron, if you claim someone is lying and can not prove it so when asked, your claim is ....................... well a lie.

ron "is" lying.

ron "was" lying.

present tense, past tense...................................3rd grade is hard man.


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marksman Said:
Thanks Gabe for the real facts again. I will wait for the huggers AKA plainsman and hard waterman to try to bs other people on here fishmahn will defend the socialist policy of this "president "  

To bad, for a while it was a nice discussion based on fact and actual information.

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Plainsman Said:
Among the conservation measures required are the elimination of livestock grazing

It's public land why should grazing be the number one priority.  Actually I would prefer grazing to many other things, but public land belongs to that rancher, and the other millions of people in this nation too.  When one rancher wants something and a thousand people wan something different the writing is on the wall.  This isn't his land, and evidently grazing is ending.  He should have taken the buy out.  Now he has nothing. 

But Reid and his son have their solar energy plant and the pay off from the Chinese right plainsamn? You seem more put off by one rancher than the sell out to a communist country buying "the people" land here in the good old USA.

aba asked:  Plainsman, you talk about habitat destroyers, whom and what are you referring to?

Those who take everything they can from the land with no regard for future generations.  Natural lands and agricultural lands.  Some not even considering their own children and grandchildren. 
But when a Chinese solar farm is left behind it seems to be no problem eh Bruce?

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One more time dumbass, just because the BLM was wrong does not make Bundy right!!! Two or three or ten wrongs do not give justification for another wrong. Bundy screwed himself period.

In regards to Issa as long as Reid and Obama have control it will go nowhere just as the Fast and Furious, Benghazi etc... Glad to see that he announced it though today but again the reporting is from memos from 2010 which have nothing to do with what the BLM was doing in 93 or what Bundy did at that time and since!!!

So keep up your lie attempts all you want but a group of your peers thought your posts and claims where worthy of author status such as Stephen King!!! 

Oh and if you paid any attention to the post you would have seen that they all want to see pulling back of the BLM and other agencies. Just not using Bundy as the face!!!

In my lifetime I have seen fence row to fence row farming and the return of CRP and game to the landscape.Now we face again the prosepect of fence row to fence row again! Sportsman are our own worst enemy in that we fail to look forward and focus to much on the now!

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gst Said:

Hardwaterman Said:
cynical, are you like gabe and have a reading comprehension problem as well?

If you are as dense as Gabe

Is, was, past tense, present tense........................... all so confusing eh ron.

That's funny.  Mr English teacher goofed. Is followed by was should then be present followed by past.  Kind of a slip as to your story. 
gst if a government employee ripped off the people for 1.1 million would you defend them?  Bundy is guilty end of story.  If he gets anything it will only be through coercion and threats to the peace.  Even a blind pig (Reid) finds and occasional acorn (domestic terrorist).   I'm beginning to think you should stop talking about the founding fathers gst.  You don't deserve those words coming from your mouth.

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 I don't want to get into the middle of this bickering, but I would think gst set a FBO record with 14 posts in a row in just under 2 hrs without anyone else's rebuttal!! Impressive!!

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 would be better if the feds did not have any land should be controlled by the states.  The feds do a good job no one ever said

 Adn

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I think that would play a role in what some western states charge for big game.  If we had no interest in those states I think license fees would be much higher.  As it is Montana is more than I can afford now. 

KurtR Said:
 would be better if the feds did not have any land should be controlled by the states.  The feds do a good job no one ever said
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Plainsman Said:
I think that would play a role in what some western states charge for big game.  If we had no interest in those states I think license fees would be much higher.  As it is Montana is more than I can afford now. 
KurtR Said:
 would be better if the feds did not have any land should be controlled by the states.  The feds do a good job no one ever said

im not saying less public land just what the feds control now with all the bs regulations could actually be managed by states to make more use full for every one.  

 Adn

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SD_Jack_Rabbit Said:

 I don't want to get into the middle of this bickering, but I would think gst set a FBO record with 14 posts in a row in just under 2 hrs without anyone else's rebuttal!! Impressive!!

You just keep opening up the thread in a new tab on your browser and write a new comment until you are done commenting.  Then you go thru each of your threads and click "submit" one after another.  The all come up consecutively - done deal.

Steve.

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RSL Said:
SD_Jack_Rabbit Said:
 I don't want to get into the middle of this bickering, but I would think gst set a FBO record with 14 posts in a row in just under 2 hrs without anyone else's rebuttal!! Impressive!!

You just keep opening up the thread in a new tab on your browser and write a new comment until you are done commenting.  Then you go thru each of your threads and click "submit" one after another.  The all come up consecutively - done deal.

Or you just keep on talking when nobody is really listening. 

 

 

 

 

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701FishSlayer Said:

Or you just keep on talking when nobody is really listening. 

281 replies in 7 days = 40± per day - I think people are listening.  I don't see that happening in any other current thread.

Steve.

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SD_Jack_Rabbit Said:
 I don't want to get into the middle of this bickering, but I would think gst set a FBO record with 14 posts in a row in just under 2 hrs without anyone else's rebuttal!! Impressive!!

might be, it would take a bit of historical data compilation to tell.

Hard to keep up if you take a day off, would hate to be accused of not addressing something someone claims.

I mean ron accused me of lying almost 14 times and has yet showed no proof more than his lack of understanding of the English language. painsman chirps is with .................well nothing really more than the usual claims and stories and anti ag rhetoric.

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Hardwaterman Said:

One more time dumbass, just because the BLM was wrong does not make Bundy right!!! Two or three or ten wrongs do not give justification for another wrong. Bundy screwed himself period.


prior to the actions over the last few days, was anyone discussing the over reach by the Federal govt in the BLM ?

I mean everyone in tis country knew about the IRS over reach, NSA's over reach, EPA's over reach, the BATF'sover reach, but who really knew what the BLM was doing with the Chinese and these ranchers ron?

Was anyone discussing the connections between Reid, the BLM, his son and son in law, the Clark County Commissioners and the Chinese? Was anyone discussion how 52 out of 53 ranchers have been forced off these lands?

Had the spotlight been shined on the BLM the actions they have engaged in over the last 20 years to remove grazing from these multiple use contracts and ranchers off the land?

Did anyone really know about the abuses of the Endangered species act to further agendas rather than to protect species?

Did anyone even know what had happened under the Clinton administration and now once again under the Obama Administration where these rqadical enviromental groups used lawsuits and threats of lawsuits to get their way?

Who knew about what the Bundys and thousands of other ranchers across this country were dealing with in your OWN  ADMISSION of how the BLM acted poorly and to a purpose.

Only a small (in comparison) hand full of other ranchers that have watched as this has played out over the last few decades and have bothered to learn more about what is behind all this.

Now at least those that want to learn abit about what is happening with a somewhat open mind can see the over reach and broken agreements the Federal govt has engaged in for decades.

So just WHO is the "dumbass" here ron?

ron what links or documents or news stories have you provided links for to back up your claims or allow people to look at to judge for themselves if what you say is factual?

none. but just like in the "ranching 101" thread where you so arrogantly decreed how to ranch in the face of what those SD ranchers were dealing with all you have is your self believed important opinion.

You may not realize this ron, but YOUR opinion is really no more valid than anyone elses until you start backing it up with some proof.

Oh and maybe some English and reading lessons.

Credibility

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KurtR Said:
 

Plainsman Said:
I think that would play a role in what some western states charge for big game.  If we had no interest in those states I think license fees would be much higher.  As it is Montana is more than I can afford now. 
KurtR Said:
 would be better if the feds did not have any land should be controlled by the states.  The feds do a good job no one ever said

im not saying less public land just what the feds control now with all the bs regulations could actually be managed by states to make more use full for every one.  

people like plainsman and others broke to the Federal yoke would rather see it sold to the Chinese than allow the states to manage it.

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Plainsman Said:

gst Said:

Hardwaterman Said:
cynical, are you like gabe and have a reading comprehension problem as well?

If you are as dense as Gabe

Is, was, past tense, present tense........................... all so confusing eh ron.

That's funny.  Mr English teacher goofed. Is followed by was should then be present followed by past.  Kind of a slip as to your story. 
gst if a government employee ripped off the people for 1.1 million would you defend them?  Bundy is guilty end of story.  If he gets anything it will only be through coercion and threats to the peace.  Even a blind pig (Reid) finds and occasional acorn (domestic terrorist).   I'm beginning to think you should stop talking about the founding fathers gst.  You don't deserve those words coming from your mouth.

plasinaman didn;t you infer Bundy was a terrorist  in the terrorist = rancher thread just as Reid did?

Aren;t you now doing it once again? 

Bruce do YOU think Bundy is a "domestic terrorist"? Tell us straight up, yes or no.

plainsman do you realize the ironic stupidity of your last two sentences?

You are suggesting someone should not engage in their right to free speech  to speak about the intent of the Founding Fathers in creating the laws and govt they did simply because of the views you hold when the very first amendment to the Constitution they passed was to address and ensure "freedom of speech" in this nation????? 

Combine that with your apparent belief along with most progressive liberals that someone that would stand and  "bear arms" in the face of a tyrannical govt is a "domestic terrorist" despite the 2nd amendments purpose and intent of that very thing and you might want to stay in at the next recess with ron and review 3rd grade history bruce.

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gst, you need to get some sleep.  It's only 2+am out here.  When do you sleep??? 

Steve.

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http://madworldnews.com/federal-judge-slams-blm-criminal-conspiracy/

Interesting read, but perhaps to complex for a 3rd grade level.

Federal Judge Slams BLM: Criminal Conspiracy

041714blm

 

For over 20 years, the BLM has been engaging in criminal conspiracy according to federal courts. Now a federal judge has stepped up and slammed them for the true intent of the BLM.

Kit Daniels from Infowars discovered a case that over throws any idea that Clive Bundy was even close to wrong out of the water. In fact it has the federal judge’s opinion from a recent court case that throws this logic of back taxes to the BLM out the window. It reveals a 20 year old conspiracy by the BLM, that the judge calls “literal and intentional”, against Nevada ranchers to force them to sell their land at a loss and kill their business. The judge doesn’t mix words and uses an actual case to expose this vast land grab and undermining of the Constitution.

It is actually an insightful and wise case that everyone in America should pay attention. There is an old saying, “follow the money and you will find the truth.” In fact, this “battle” at the Bundy ranch was settled 20 years ago, While it seems that the liberal outlets are touting a court decision against Bundy for failure to pay fees, they are using the local courts. If they would have paid attention to the appeals courts, the Supreme Court, and U.S. District Court Judge Robert C. Jones, they would have found that it wasn’t a valid case against Bundy. They are using the normal smoke and mirrors to distract, while the real reason for the fight is completely illegal and immoral. 

In his opinion of United States v. Estate of Hage, U.S. District Court Judge Robert C. Jones reveals that after late Nevada rancher E. Wayne Hage indicated on his 1993 grazing permit renewal that by signing the permit, he was not surrendering his family’s long-standing water and forage rights on the land, the BLM not only rejected the permit but also conspired for decades to both deny his family’s property rights and to destroy their cattle business.

“Based upon E. Wayne Hage’s declaration that he refused to waive his rights — a declaration that did not purport to change the substance of the grazing permit renewal for which he was applying, and which had no plausible legal effect other than to superfluously assert non-waiver of rights — the Government denied him a renewal grazing permit based upon its frankly nonsensical position that such an assertion of rights meant that the application had not been properly completed,” Judge Jones wrote. “After the BLM denied his renewal grazing permit for this reason by letter, the Hages indicated that they would take the issue to court, and they sued the Government in the CFC [Court of Federal Claims.]”

And at that point, Jones explained, the BLM refused to consider any further applications from Hage.

“The entire chain of events is the result of the Government’s arbitrary denial of E. Wayne Hage’s renewal permit for 1993–2003, and the effects of this due process violation are continuing,” he stated.

Judge Jones continued:

In 2007, unsatisfied with the outcome thus far in the CFC, the Government brought the present civil trespass action against Hage and the Estate. The Government did not bring criminal misdemeanor trespass claims, perhaps because it believed it could not satisfy the burden of proof in a criminal trespass action, as a previous criminal action against E. Wayne Hage had been reversed by the Court of Appeals. During the course of the present trial, the Government has: (1)invited others, including Mr. Gary Snow, to apply for grazing permits on allotments where the Hages previously had permits, indicating that Mr. Snow could use water sources on such land in which Hage had water rights, or at least knowing that he would use such sources; (2) applied with the Nevada State Engineer for its own stock watering rights in waters on the land despite that fact that the Government owns no cattle nearby and has never intended to obtain any, but rather for the purpose of obtaining rights for third parties other than Hage in order to interfere with Hage’s rights; and (3) issued trespass notices and demands for payment against persons who had cattle pastured with Hage, despite having been notified by these persons and Hage himself that Hage was responsible for these cattle and even issuing such demands for payment to witnesses soon after they testified in this case.

By filing for a public water reserve, the Government in this case sought specifically to transfer to others water rights belonging to the Hages. The Government also explicitly solicited and granted temporary grazing rights to parties who had no preferences under the TGA [Taylor Grazing Act of 1934], such as Mr. Snow, in areas where the Hages had preferences under the TGA.

It is necessary to note that under the TGA, according to Red Canyon Sheep Co. v. Ickes (1938), a rancher whose cattle had previously grazed in the area based upon adjacent land, water rights on the land, etc., has a right to a grazing permit over others who apply for a permit to graze the area without having previously grazed there.

So in this instance, Hage would have priority over Snow for a grazing permit, but the BLM willfully ignored this court ruling.

And after the agency filed for a public water reserve, according to Judge Jones, the BLM “sent trespass notices to people who leased or sold cattle to the Hages, notwithstanding the Hages’ admitted and known control over that cattle, in order to pressure other parties not to do business with the Hages, and even to discourage or punish testimony in the present case.”

“For this reason, the Court has held certain government officials in contempt and referred the matter to the U.S. Attorney’s Office,” he wrote. “In summary, government officials, and perhaps also Mr. Snow, entered into a literal, intentional conspiracy to deprive the Hages not only of their permits but also of their vested water rights.”

“This behavior shocks the conscience of the Court and provides a sufficient basis for a finding of irreparable harm to support the injunction described at the end of this Order.”

So in other words, the BLM willfully attempted to destroy the Hage family’s livelihood because Hage dared to assert his existing rights to the land which his family has held since the late 19th century.

And unfortunately the BLM is attempting to do the exact same thing to Cliven Bundy.

“Has Attorney General Eric Holder prosecuted any federal officials for criminal activity and violation of the Hage family’s constitutionally protected rights? No,” William F. Jasper, senior editor of The New American, wrote on the subject. “Has Sen. Harry Reid denounced this lawlessness and criminal activity by government officials and call upon President Obama and Attorney General Holder to protect the citizens of his state from the depredations of federal officials under their command? No.”

“With attitudes such as those expressed above by Sen. Harry Reid, it is almost a certainty that the recently defused Bundy Ranch standoff will be replayed again — and in the not-too-distant future. And the outcome could be much less amicable for all concerned.” ~Kit Daniels

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ladd, here you go!

http://rtfitchauthor.com/2011/07/30/nevada-tribal-leader-81-sues-blm-for...

Nevada Tribal Leader, 81, Sues BLM for $30 million

Article by Scott Sonner as it appears in RGJ.com

“The perversity the permeates Obama’s BLM runs deeper than just massacring the last of our native wild horses and burros, they target our Native American brothers, as well!” ~ R.T.

Violating Constitutional Rights is the Core of BLM’s Business Plan

photo courtesy of Danny Brady

The federal government seized Raymond Yowell’s cattle — all 132 head — and hauled them across the state and sold them at auction.

Then the U.S. Bureau of Land Management sent Yowell a bill for $180,000 for back grazing fees and penalties, and later garnished part of his Social Security benefits.

Now, nearly a decade later, the 81-year-old former chief of the Western Shoshone National Council is fighting back. He’s suing the U.S. Bureau of Land Management, the Treasury Department and others for $30 million. Yowell claims the government violated his constitutional rights, broke an 1863 treaty and saddled him with a debt that he doesn’t owe.

“There’s no other way,” said Yowell, a member of the Te-Moak Band of Western Shoshone, who still works a small cattle ranch with his son in northeast Nevada’s high desert.

“I kept writing letters to them saying I didn’t have a debt with them, that I never signed a contract,” he told The Associated Press. “But they just ignored it. There’s no use talking to them.”

Yowell said in the lawsuit filed earlier this month he was exercising his “treaty guaranteed vested rights” to be a herdsman when he turned his cattle out in May 2002 to graze on the historic ranges of the South Fork Indian Reservation.

BLM officials said the tribe’s Te-Moak Livestock Association held a federal permit to graze cattle on the public land in northeast Nevada from 1940 to 1984, but had quit paying the fees to the BLM in 1984, claiming the tribe held title to the land.

Despite earlier federal and U.S. Supreme Court decisions against them, the Indian leaders asserted then — as Yowell does today — that the land is still theirs as dictated by the Treaty of Ruby Valley of 1863.

Under the treaty, the United States formally recognized Western Shoshone rights to some 60 million acres stretching across Nevada, Idaho, Utah and California. But the Supreme Court’s 1979 ruling determined the treaty gave the U.S. government trusteeship over tribal lands, and that it could claim them as “public” or federal lands.

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Right now we have a bunch of band wagon jumpers. Bundy wrong Wayne Hage right.

Yes now Hage is right and he did it right. But, did everyone think Hage was always right? Twenty years ago Hage didn't have all the supporters he has now.

In gst's article above it mentions a Mr. Gary Snow conspired with the BLM to apply for permits that belonged to Hage. Shamefull.

In North Dakota, Plainsman and company revisit this scenerio often. They complain the ranchers in western ND do not pay enough and that the grasslands should go to the highest bidder. Obviously they want to break the chain of title. 

Plainsman worked for the fed/gov his whole life. Is there a chip to stop his chirping?

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Here is an interesting perspective from someone plainsman and ron may not have enough past history with to begin calling names.

http://beefmagazine.com/blog/bundy-case-requiem-property-rights-america?...

Bundy Case Is A Requiem For Property Rights In America

Table of Contents:

  • Bundy Case Is A Requiem For Property Rights In America
  • Bundy's Lease

The sad reality is that private property rights no longer exist. You can hold your land until the government decides to take it. It’s just a much more real experience for people in the West.

 

I think many, if not most, cattlemen can’t understand why Cliven Bundy is considered a hero in some people’s eyes. After all, he didn’t pay his grazing fees for 20 years. Of course, like most things, the situation is a little more complicated than it appears at first glance.

This issue goes back over 100 years. After the U.S. government acquired the vast tracts of the West from Mexico, they wanted it settled. But unlike other areas where the government allowed homesteading, the number of acres that the government allowed a settler to stake his claim to simply didn’t constitute a viable economic unit in the West. A parcel of 160 acres in Missouri isn’t equivalent to the productive capacity of 160 acres in most of these areas of the West. The whole concept of public lands evolved out of the fact that the government allowed producers to lease larger tracts of land in order to construct viable production units.

Then along came the multiple-use doctrine. It sanctioned that the land was to be used to benefit the public, and included such things as grazing, energy development and tourism, which are the lifeblood of the economies in the West. The way things developed, grazing permits or leases were tied to privately held acreages, which enabled producers to maintain ranching operations that were theoretically economically viable.

The expense of dealing with the government on these leases is astronomical, which is the reason the actual lease rates are well below national averages. Of course, to all of us outsiders, it looks like a sweetheart deal.

When I was fresh out of grad school, I did a research project on a couple of data sets, trying to look for the secrets of profitability and being a low-cost producer. There were a lot of great tactics that could be learned, but one of the biggest drivers of profitability was the percentage of ground that was leased from the state.

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In the state of Colorado, for instance, essentially every township has a section of grass that is leased out in order to support public education in the state. These are called school sections. The holders of these school sections pay one-third or less of the typical going rate. These long-term leases are structured so that they’re nearly impossible to get from the current holders of the lease. The result is that such producers have a dramatic competitive advantage over others.

It’s a convoluted mess, because relative to federal lands, the value of those leases was built into the ranches that had the land that the leases were tied to. In essence, the first holder of the lease raked in a windfall, essentially being allowed to sell the federal land with the lease; subsequent holders have paid for those leases. Thus, a change now would force them to essentially pay fair value twice.

The above isn’t even one of the two biggest dynamics of running on federal land. The federal government is the most fickle and demanding landlord you can imagine. For the first 100 years or so, federal lands were understood to be a vital part of these states’ economies and were managed as such, but that changed.

Federal lands came under the control of politicians and environmentalists, who wanted those lands managed for their benefit; you can imagine the problems that have ensued. This is why Bundy is a hero to many people in the West, and a criminal to others.
 

Let’s look at the county where Bundy’s lease is located. Clark County, NV, at one time had 52 lease holders on federal land. Bundy is the only one left, and the only reason the government hasn’t run him off is because he’s simply refused to go.

Bundy probably made his case in a bad way and, ultimately, the federal government will win. There’s no doubt about that; he’s already lost twice in appeals. No one can fight the power of the federal government, with all the resources and options at its disposal.

What Bundy did, however, was point out that the system is broken. It doesn’t matter if the rationale is to save turtles, fish, mice or prairie chickens, the federal government is eliminating not only grazing but the entire multiple-use concept on federal lands.

Folks back East can still drive out to one of the western states, hike around and enjoy the vast country, so they don’t have a lot of concerns. However, the economies and the lifestyle of the affected western communities are being destroyed. It’s as if you made an agreement with someone, subsequent generations continued to invest on the land, and then the deal was changed. 

I suppose the best analogy is to take a landowner in a state like Illinois, whose family has owned and worked a particular parcel of land for 100 years and multiple generations. One day, the government decides your land would better serve society as a state park or if it had a Walmart distribution center on it. Undoubtedly, you’d fight the government; undoubtedly, you would lose.

The reality is that for people in the West, public lands have been seen as private property to a large extent, unlike in the East where virtually all land is considered private property. The sad reality, however, is that private property rights no longer exist. You can hold your land until the government decides to take it. It’s just a much more real experience for people in the West.

If you haven’t lived in a western state, you likely don’t understand the dynamic between state rights and the oppressive power of the federal government. The federal government is not only the biggest landowner in most western states, but the most powerful player, essentially dictating what is to be done. Along with any decree is the ever-present threat of shutting down your economy if you don’t go along. The feds also don’t pay taxes on that land, so that’s a tremendous drain as well. 

As I said, the Bundy family will lose, and the federal government will drive them out of business one way or another, thus removing cattle from land that had been grazed successfully for generations upon generations. Unless you’re a rancher whose livelihood depends on grazing federal lands, dealt with any of the 20 bureaucracies you must deal with in doing so, and been forced to listen to a 20-something bureaucrat threaten your lease unless you change your ways, you can’t fathom the resentment that exists in some quarters toward an overbearing, uncaring and totally unintelligible federal bureaucracy that can dictate virtually everything to you.

Bundy isn’t to be celebrated for breaking the law or for failing to pay his fees, but he is a hero for calling attention to the plight of the West as his final act. Then the Bundy family will be like the thousands of other western ranchers that have been, or are being, removed from their land on a daily basis. Perhaps, however, Bundy’s final act of defiance will bring attention to the problem of a broken system.

 

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RSL Said:
gst, you need to get some sleep.  It's only 2+am out here.  When do you sleep??? 

In between cows calving.

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Fritz the Cat Said:
Right now we have a bunch of band wagon jumpers. Bundy wrong Wayne Hage right.

Yes now Hage is right and he did it right. But, did everyone think Hage was always right? Twenty years ago Hage didn't have all the supporters he has now.

In gst's article above it mentions a Mr. Gary Snow conspired with the BLM to apply for permits that belonged to Hage. Shamefull.

In North Dakota, Plainsman and company revisit this scenerio often. They complain the ranchers in western ND do not pay enough and that the grasslands should go to the highest bidder. Obviously they want to break the chain of title. 

Plainsman worked for the fed/gov his whole life. Is there a chip to stop his chirping?

An interesting thought fritz.

What would stop the 5% oil and gas tax funds from being used by a "conservation group" to out bid a rancher on the grazing leases in the Grasslands.

It is yet another tactic being used by these groups that want the cattle off these lands all over the west.

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Here is an assignment for some of you for today.  Find out where the Nevada Cattlemens Assoc. stands on this Bundy's rights.  Go ahead check it out and then report back here.  OK

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Plainsman Said:
Here is an assignment for some of you for today.  Find out where the Nevada Cattlemens Assoc. stands on this Bundy's rights.  Go ahead check it out and then report back here.  OK

plaisnman, couldn;t find a direct link to the statement alone, but it is mostly contained within this article for people to read.

http://www.reviewjournal.com/news/nevada/nevada-cattlemen-s-association-...

By KEITH ROGERS

While distancing itself from the legal issues that prompted the Bureau of Land Management to round up Bunkerville rancher Cliven Bundy’s range cattle then release hundreds of them as the threat of violence loomed, the conservative Nevada Cattlemen’s Association issued a statement Wednesday that sympathizes with Bundy.

“The situation in Nevada stands as an example (of) the federal agencies’ steady trend toward elevating environmental and wildlife issues over livestock grazing,” reads the statement from Ron Torell, the cattlemen’s group president.

The statement adds that ranchers like Bundy, who graze livestock on multiple-use public lands, which include habitat for the threatened desert tortoise and other federally protected species, “have found themselves with their backs against the wall as, increasingly, federal regulations have infringed on their public land grazing rights and the multiple-use management principle.”

“This is not only devastating to individual ranching families; it is also causing rural communities in the West to (wither) on the vine. In the West, one in every two acres is owned by the federal government,” the Nevada Cattlemen’s Association statement notes. “Therefore, the integrity of the laws protecting productive multiple use is paramount to the communities that exist there.

The group contends that the Endangered Species Act and other such laws are being implemented in a way that are damaging to our rights and to our Western families and communities. In Bundy’s case the designation of his grazing area as a critical habitat for the endangered desert tortoise gave the BLM the rationale they needed to order a 500% decrease in his cattle numbers. There never was any scientific proof that cattle had historically harmed the desert tortoise.”

The BLM halted its roundup Saturday as gun-toting militia and protesters in support of Bundy converged on a corral near Mesquite where government cowboys were preparing to haul away some 380 head of cattle gathered in the Gold Butte area for auction.

The association emphasized, however, that it doesn’t support those who break the law and abuse grazing privileges.

“In accordance with the rule of law, we must use the system set forth in our Constitution to change those laws and regulations. Nevada Cattlemen’s Association does not condone actions that are outside the law in which citizens take the law into their own hands,” the group’s statement reads.

The Nevada Cattlemen’s Association is a nonprofit trade association that was established in 1935. The group has 567 dues-paying members who convene annually to “review, renew and create policy for our organization,” according to Torell. He said Bundy is not a member of the association, which consists of cattle and sheep ranchers who hold grazing permits and pay fees for grazing privileges on public, federal lands.

The association made it clear that it doesn’t take a stand on Bundy’s legal issues because the membership “does not feel it is our place to interfere.”

Instead, the matter is solely between Bundy and the federal court system, the association’s statement says.

“This case was reviewed by a federal judge and a decision was rendered to remove the cattle. Nevada Cattlemen’s Association does not feel it is our place to interfere in the process of adjudication in this matter,” the group said in its statement.

We regret that this entire situation was not avoided through more local government involvement and better implementation of federal regulations, laws, and court decisions,” the statement reads. “While we cannot advocate operating outside the law to solve problems, we also sympathize with Mr. Bundy’s dilemma. With good faith negotiations from both sides, we believe a result can be achieved which recognizes the balance that must be struck between private property rights and resource sustainability.”

A BLM spokesman said Wednesday that bureau officials have seen the Nevada Cattlemen’s Association statement but wouldn’t comment on it.

 

From reading their statement in it's entirety before Bruce I don't remember much being left out of the emboldened portion. 

They acknowledge Clive Bundy was in violation of the regulations as written, yet point out that "“Therefore, the integrity of the laws protecting productive multiple use is paramount to the communities that exist there.”

plainsman, what do you think they mean by that? You have said yourself these multiple use agreements should be ignored by the govt have you not?

Bruce, did you happen to read the judges comments in the post a few above in response to the BLM actions in the Hage case of how the BLM veiwed these multiple use requirements?

That judge seems more in line with the Nevada Cattleman's statement than those of the BLM, Sen. Reid and yourself.

Hopefully you will grade this "report" with an unbiased marker Mr. Hanson. Or at the very least grade with a curve.

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 Are the Feds going to reimburse Bundy for the cattle they killed? Now that Reid has labelled them domestic terrorists will the national guard be brought in next time they try to round up his cattle? Or, will this all get swept under the rug since ole dirty Harry Reid and his son Rory have been linked to the Chinese company?

 

 

 

 

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Fritz you are such a RADICAL right wing BIGOT...  We of ND do want more public land. I HAVE SEEN THE DISTRUCTION OF BIG OIL... Raping MY mineral's they PROMISED to pay me for.  You are wrong, I DON'T WANT TO SEE MORE HOUSES

Fritz the Cat Said:
Plains,

That is what everyone has been trying to tell you for ions. Private land looks better then public. Private houses look better then public housing, private bathrooms look better then public ones etc. etc.

We in ND certainly don't want "more" headaches "more" public land. You just said it.

Thank you thank you thank you

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Dcharlesbev
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Joined: 3/7/09

 Over ten years ago I lived in Montana, traveled the state, hunted and fished and hiked and crossed a lot of BLM lands.  I saw how the Feds managed the over populated Yellowstone Park Bison and Elk and saw how the BLM managed the federal lands.   Not good!  If the states can take control and allow responsible rangers to manage the land while allowing access to the public, count me in.   

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Plainsman
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Joined: 6/19/03

 Did you notice that in bold it says private property rights?  I hope these letters are not as big and bold as they look on the phone.

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gst
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Joined: 3/12/09

plaisnman, are cattle private property?

Are purchased water rights that have been proven up every 3 years private property?

If the BLM had simply placed a lien against Mr. Bundys cattle, they would have received their monies everytime any were sold.

Instead they came and tried to seize these cattle(private property) at gun point.  They killed several of them as well.

I wonder what Nevadas animal cruelty laws are. Here in ND when these agents rounded up mama cows and willfully or intentionally left their calves to die of starvation it could be charged as a felony offense.

Who here will speak out to hold them accountable if that is the case? Ron? Bruce?

After all, they would have broken the law.

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