Nevada BLM actions background

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SD_Jack_Rabbit

If god didn't want us to eat animals....he wouldn't have made them out of food.

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SD_Jack_Rabbit

If god didn't want us to eat animals....he wouldn't have made them out of food.

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gst Said:
plaisnman, are cattle private property?

Are purchased water rights that have been proven up every 3 years private property?

If the BLM had simply placed a lien against Mr. Bundys cattle, they would have received their monies everytime any were sold.

Instead they came and tried to seize these cattle(private property) at gun point.  They killed several of them as well.

I wonder what Nevadas animal cruelty laws are. Here in ND when these agents rounded up mama cows and willfully or intentionally left their calves to die of starvation it could be charged as a felony offense.

Who here will speak out to hold them accountable if that is the case? Ron? Bruce?

After all, they would have broken the law.

They had every right to round those cattle up and remove them from their property. They have won every legal battle. What would you do if someone left cattle on your property after refusing to pay the rent?

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Yes sir??? 

wstnodak Said:

SD_Jack_Rabbit

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They had every right to round those cattle up and remove them from their property. They have won every legal battle. What would you do if someone left cattle on your property after refusing to pay the rent?

I would bring in 200 armed guards and snipers, kill some of the cattle, and destroy any improvements they made on my land... yep that would do it! 

I wonder what would happen if I tried to stop oil drilling on my land if I did not own the mineral rights?

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Hunt and Fish wrote,

They had every right to round those cattle up and remove them from their property. They have won every legal battle. What would you do if someone left cattle on your property after refusing to pay the rent?
 

Hey Scott,

You and I are in the wrong business. The fed/gov paid some outfit out of Utah $996,000 to round up 900 cows. And maybe they weren't all 900 standing on fee land at the time. Even if they were, that is over a thousand dollars per cow.

That pays better then rustling.

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HUNTNFISHND Said:
 

gst Said:
plaisnman, are cattle private property?

Are purchased water rights that have been proven up every 3 years private property?

If the BLM had simply placed a lien against Mr. Bundys cattle, they would have received their monies everytime any were sold.

Instead they came and tried to seize these cattle(private property) at gun point.  They killed several of them as well.

I wonder what Nevadas animal cruelty laws are. Here in ND when these agents rounded up mama cows and willfully or intentionally left their calves to die of starvation it could be charged as a felony offense.

Who here will speak out to hold them accountable if that is the case? Ron? Bruce?

After all, they would have broken the law.

They had every right to round those cattle up and remove them from their property. They have won every legal battle. What would you do if someone left cattle on your property after refusing to pay the rent?

I would put a lien on the cattle. Try taking someones cattle that are branded and selling them in your name.


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 gst Said:


I would put a lien on the cattle. Try taking someones cattle that are branded and selling them in your name.


That's kind of what happened isn't it?  The governor of Utah wouldn't let the cattle into the state to be sold because the seller wasn't the owner of the brand and nobody in Nevada would touch the cattle for the same reason.

Steve.

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"The only enemy of guns is rust and politicians."

"The best defense against usurpatory government is an assertive citizenry."

William F. Buckley, Jr.
"Unarmed helplessness is for sheep and the French."  Ted Nugent

"The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it."
 -Thomas Jefferson

The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.
-Thomas Jefferson

 

 

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http://www.infowars.com/federal-judge-blm-engaged-in-a-criminal-conspira...

Federal Judge: BLM Engaged In A Criminal Conspiracy Against Ranchers

  •   The Alex Jones Channel Alex Jones Show podcast Prison Planet TV Infowars.com Twitter Alex Jones' Facebook Infowars store

Court opinion exposes BLM’s true intent against Cliven Bundy

Kit Daniels
Infowars.com
April 17, 2014

For over 20 years, the Bureau of Land Management engaged in a “literal, intentional conspiracy” against Nevada ranchers to force them out of business, according to a federal judge whose court opinion exposes the BLM’s true intent against rancher Cliven Bundy.

BLM agents who impounded Cliven Bundy's cattle.

BLM agents who impounded Cliven Bundy’s cattle.

In his opinion of United States v. Estate of Hage, U.S. District Court Judge Robert C. Jones reveals that after late Nevada rancher E. Wayne Hage indicated on his 1993 grazing permit renewal that by signing the permit, he was not surrendering his family’s long-standing water and forage rights on the land, the BLM not only rejected the permit but also conspired for decades to both deny his family’s property rights and to destroy their cattle business.

“Based upon E. Wayne Hage’s declaration that he refused to waive his rights — a declaration that did not purport to change the substance of the grazing permit renewal for which he was applying, and which had no plausible legal effect other than to superfluously assert non-waiver of rights — the Government denied him a renewal grazing permit based upon its frankly nonsensical position that such an assertion of rights meant that the application had not been properly completed,” Judge Jones wrote. “After the BLM denied his renewal grazing permit for this reason by letter, the Hages indicated that they would take the issue to court, and they sued the Government in the CFC [Court of Federal Claims.]”

And at that point, Jones explained, the BLM refused to consider any further applications from Hage.

“The entire chain of events is the result of the Government’s arbitrary denial of E. Wayne Hage’s renewal permit for 1993–2003, and the effects of this due process violation are continuing,” he stated.

Judge Jones continued:

In 2007, unsatisfied with the outcome thus far in the CFC, the Government brought the present civil trespass action against Hage and the Estate. The Government did not bring criminal misdemeanor trespass claims, perhaps because it believed it could not satisfy the burden of proof in a criminal trespass action, as a previous criminal action against E. Wayne Hage had been reversed by the Court of Appeals. During the course of the present trial, the Government has: (1)invited others, including Mr. Gary Snow, to apply for grazing permits on allotments where the Hages previously had permits, indicating that Mr. Snow could use water sources on such land in which Hage had water rights, or at least knowing that he would use such sources; (2) applied with the Nevada State Engineer for its own stock watering rights in waters on the land despite that fact that the Government owns no cattle nearby and has never intended to obtain any, but rather for the purpose of obtaining rights for third parties other than Hage in order to interfere with Hage’s rights; and (3) issued trespass notices and demands for payment against persons who had cattle pastured with Hage, despite having been notified by these persons and Hage himself that Hage was responsible for these cattle and even issuing such demands for payment to witnesses soon after they testified in this case.

By filing for a public water reserve, the Government in this case sought specifically to transfer to others water rights belonging to the Hages. The Government also explicitly solicited and granted temporary grazing rights to parties who had no preferences under the TGA [Taylor Grazing Act of 1934], such as Mr. Snow, in areas where the Hages had preferences under the TGA.

It is necessary to note that under the TGA, according to Red Canyon Sheep Co. v. Ickes (1938), a rancher whose cattle had previously grazed in the area based upon adjacent land, water rights on the land, etc., has a right to a grazing permit over others who apply for a permit to graze the area without having previously grazed there.

So in this instance, Hage would have priority over Snow for a grazing permit, but the BLM willfully ignored this court ruling.

And after the agency filed for a public water reserve, according to Judge Jones, the BLM “sent trespass notices to people who leased or sold cattle to the Hages, notwithstanding the Hages’ admitted and known control over that cattle, in order to pressure other parties not to do business with the Hages, and even to discourage or punish testimony in the present case.”

“For this reason, the Court has held certain government officials in contempt and referred the matter to the U.S. Attorney’s Office,” he wrote. “In summary, government officials, and perhaps also Mr. Snow, entered into a literal, intentional conspiracy to deprive the Hages not only of their permits but also of their vested water rights.”

“This behavior shocks the conscience of the Court and provides a sufficient basis for a finding of irreparable harm to support the injunction described at the end of this Order.”

So in other words, the BLM willfully attempted to destroy the Hage family’s livelihood because Hage dared to assert his existing rights to the land which his family has held since the late 19th century.

And unfortunately the BLM is attempting to do the exact same thing to Cliven Bundy.

“Has Attorney General Eric Holder prosecuted any federal officials for criminal activity and violation of the Hage family’s constitutionally protected rights? No,” William F. Jasper, senior editor of The New American, wrote on the subject. “Has Sen. Harry Reid denounced this lawlessness and criminal activity by government officials and call upon President Obama and Attorney General Holder to protect the citizens of his state from the depredations of federal officials under their command? No.”

“With attitudes such as those expressed above by Sen. Harry Reid, it is almost a certainty that the recently defused Bundy Ranch standoff will be replayed again — and in the not-too-distant future. And the outcome could be much less amicable for all concerned.”

This article was posted: Thursday, April 17, 2014 at 2:26 pm

"The only enemy of guns is rust and politicians."

"The best defense against usurpatory government is an assertive citizenry."

William F. Buckley, Jr.
"Unarmed helplessness is for sheep and the French."  Ted Nugent

"The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it."
 -Thomas Jefferson

The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.
-Thomas Jefferson

 

 

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cynical, you are dangerously close to being called a "dumbass" by a 3rd grader.

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 gst Said:

cynical, you are dangerously close to being called a "dumbass" by a 3rd grader.

Don't you mean "by someone that can't read/comprehend at a 3rd grade level!"

Steve.

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Interesting, found this from a guy named Bobby Franklin on his facebook page and his war with the BLM over his 160 acres:

Bobby Franklin In 1988 & 1989, my dad & I purchased 160 acres in Laughlin, from BLM under the Desert Land Act. In Feb. 1997, after seven years of direct disputes with Harry Reid; his BLM operation; and two appeals from BLM to IBLA, Laughlin Lt. Commander Tom Smitley ordered LVMPD deputies to destroy all the structures & fences on my 160 acre estate, which they did without a warrant to do so. Reporters were ordered not to publish any photos or story. In 2008, fed judge Sandoval ordered my land title "expunged" from Recorder Office, and ordered a "BWD" corporation that BLM created now owns it. In 2013, the Chinese dissolved their contract to buy 9,000 acres in Laughlin, for solar power plants. Last week, Bundy Ranch became news. My Case No. 13-17002 is now on appeal in the 9th Circuit Court.

  • Bobby Franklin Follow the money. Reid organized the entire BLM conspiracy to destroy the Bundy Ranch & all his cattle, like he did against my 160 acre estate in 1997. Sandoval & the sheriff refuse jurisdiction of their duty to protect life or property in Clark County, NV, like they did to me & my 160 acre estate in Laughlin.
  • Bobby Franklin Also, in 2008, Sandoval was the FEDERAL judge who "expunged" my 160 acre land title from the Recorder's Office, & he transferred ownership to a "BWD" corporation that BLM created. Now he's the governor of NV?
  • Bobby Franklin In 2009, Steve Sisolak removed & replaced Bruce Woodbury as the District A Clark County Commissioner over Laughlin, NV.



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RSL Said:
 gst Said:

cynical, you are dangerously close to being called a "dumbass" by a 3rd grader.

Don't you mean "by someone that can't read/comprehend at a 3rd grade level!"

Who knows which it is for sure.

Lord, I apologize for that one there, and please be with all the starving Pygmies down there in New Guinea.

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All I can say is don't be surprized if "YOU ARE NEXT"!!

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Who here will speak out to hold them accountable if that is the case? Ron? Bruce?

I know you don't like stories, but you remind me of a little neighbor girl years ago.  She was sitting crying and her mother asked what she was crying about.  The little girl said "the cat is looking at me".  The mother said "we don't have a cat.  The little girl said " but if we had a cat".  I guess if you want to cry you can find a reason.

I have a novel idea.  Lets talk about what is real.  Support Hage, but not criminals like Bundy or the crap will rub off on you. 

Hey gst want to improve your sig line?  The don't have Pygmies in New Guinea.  Didn't they teach that in second grade Bubba Thompson. 

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Plainsman Said:

Who here will speak out to hold them accountable if that is the case? Ron? Bruce?

I know you don't like stories, but you remind me of a little neighbor girl years ago.  She was sitting crying and her mother asked what she was crying about.  The little girl said "the cat is looking at me".  The mother said "we don't have a cat.  The little girl said " but if we had a cat".  I guess if you want to cry you can find a reason.

I have a novel idea.  Lets talk about what is real.  Support Hage, but not criminals like Bundy or the crap will rub off on you. 

Hey gst want to improve your sig line?  The don't have Pygmies in New Guinea.  Didn't they teach that in second grade Bubba Thompson. 

plainsman so what is your story suppose to infer?

All it really does is sound like Reid whining about the Koch bros. (you seem to be an awful lot alike Bruce)

Bruce, have you contacted our Senators to ask them to hold Reid accountable for selling the "peoples" land to the Chinese?

Didn't think so.

If this happened here in ND and the BLM left newborn calves to die in the Grasslands from starvation, would YOU push to hold them accountable?

Didn;t think so.

As to your weak but still petty 2nd grade geographical lesson "Bubba" Hanson, I will let ask.com answer that.

http://www.ask.com/answers/3483161/why-does-larry-the-cable-guy-say-lord...

He is being intentionally ignorant to be humorous. The Pygmy tribes inhabit West and Central Africa. New Guinea is an island located in the Southwest Pacific. So when he apologies to God for his last joke, he gets it all wrong.

Helpful (1) Fun Comments (1)

He's trying to be funny - it's a joke



I mean even sasquatches understand that one Bruce!

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If this happened here in ND

My point is you want to whine about something that may or may not have happened.  Are you running out of things to complain about.  If if if if was my point.  You proud of your third grade comments, but you should have understood the story.  I'm saying why ask about something that no one knows.  If they took the mama cows, if the babies starved.  Of course it's as real as your Reid linked to Bund bs, so what could I expect.

Hardwaterman has a point.  Both of us do not like Reid.  That doesn't make Bundy right.  Both of us thing Hage's were right.  That doesn't make Bundy right.  Get it yet?  Three separate things, yet you keep trying to link them.  Why?  I'll tell you why.  Because you have nothing else genius. 

I'll try get this to your level. 
Reid = Bad
Chinese = Bad
Middle finger to Chinese = Good
Hage = Good
Bundy = Bad 
Capacity grazing = Good
Not paying for rent = Bad
Not respecting law = Bad
Impeach Reid = Good
Throw Reid in jail = even better
Throw Reid in jail with Bundy = Best

Duh me be done now. 

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Plainsman Said:
If this happened here in ND

My point is you want to whine about something that may or may not have happened.  Are you running out of things to complain about.  If if if if was my point.  You proud of your third grade comments, but you should have understood the story.  I'm saying why ask about something that no one knows.  If they took the mama cows, if the babies starved.  Of course it's as real as your Reid linked to Bund bs, so what could I expect.

Hardwaterman has a point.  Both of us do not like Reid.  That doesn't make Bundy right.  Both of us thing Hage's were right.  That doesn't make Bundy right.  Get it yet?  Three separate things, yet you keep trying to link them.  Why?  I'll tell you why.  Because you have nothing else genius. 

One, the BLM agents left new born calves to die in the desert as they rounded up their mothers. roughly 30 some were found and were being cared for.

They ran pregnant cattle to death in 90 degree heat with helicopters and buried them in the desert. ( perhaps you do not realize the effects of that, but they are now digging them out of the graves they were buried in)

You can find this information if you care to take the time bruce.

And two, I am not "proud" of my "third grade comments" bruce,

We had several pages of worthwhile discussion about this issue mostly void of the childish name calling. Then ron and your friends and yourself came in and it degraded to what it normally does. 

plainsman, seeing as you can not understand why Larry the cable guy tells a joke, perhaps you can not understand the "3rd grade comments" were only made in response to these childish accusations where ron used the 3rd grade reference and name calling  to try and get the people making them to look and see how childish and petty they were there "genius".

As has been suggested before Bruce, why don;t you take a little bit of time to actually inform your self somewhat on the very same internet you make these ill informed comments on.

Or you can continue to keep blindly defending the govt you were a life long employee of with poorly informed accusations and petty personal claims, it is your credibility.

Bruce actually take the time to read the following link from someone that was actually there.

http://noisyroom.net/blog/2014/04/14/the-truth-about-the-bundys-vs-blm/


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Plainsman Said:

If this happened here in ND

My point is you want to whine about something that may or may not have happened.  Are you running out of things to complain about.  If if if if was my point.  You proud of your third grade comments, but you should have understood the story.  I'm saying why ask about something that no one knows.  If they took the mama cows, if the babies starved.  Of course it's as real as your Reid linked to Bund bs, so what could I expect.

Hardwaterman has a point.  Both of us do not like Reid.  That doesn't make Bundy right.  Both of us thing Hage's were right.  That doesn't make Bundy right.  Get it yet?  Three separate things, yet you keep trying to link them.  Why?  I'll tell you why.  Because you have nothing else genius. 

I'll try get this to your level. 
Reid = Bad
Chinese = Bad
Middle finger to Chinese = Good
Hage = Good
Bundy = Bad 
Capacity grazing = Good
Not paying for rent = Bad
Not respecting law = Bad
Impeach Reid = Good
Throw Reid in jail = even better
Throw Reid in jail with Bundy = Best

Duh me be done now. 

Thank you for making my point Bruce by editing and adding the emboldened portion of your post that you did while I was typing.

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Here is that link again with the text.

It appears the number of people you and ron childishly refer to as "dumb asses" and "geniuses" is growing every day.

Friends,

I had the privilege and opportunity to learn to make a calf suck a bottle to save her life. It’s going to take a lot to revive the calves that were nearly dead when they were returned to the Bundy Ranch because they had been separated from their mothers during the roundup, and a few most likely won’t make it.

I’m headed back to the Bundy’s today at 1:00pm. I hope you’ll meet me up there. Take I-15 North towards Mesquite, get off at exit 112, and I’ll be on the left-hand side of the road, about 2.5 miles down. Give yourself about an hour and a half for traffic.

This isn’t my normal, nice, politically correct email, so hang on to your seats. I can tell you that after everything I’ve seen, this roundup was not about grazing fees.

First and foremost, like all Nevadans, I love my country and support my government. I proudly support Nevada being home to military installations needed to defend our nation, the federal government test site to develop the equipment necessary for that defense, and any of the other federal lands and facilities needed to conduct the true business of our federal government. That said, I struggle to see the compelling federal issue of where cows eat.

I spent a majority of my time in Bunkerville over the last week with the Bundy family and their supporters. During my time in Bunkerville, I couldn’t help but think about Nevada’s upcoming 150th birthday and that the federal government continues to patronize our state by trying to overstep and police our Nevada citizens. I wonder when the federal government will think Nevada is mature enough to set our own grazing rules or enforce our own laws.

I didn’t meet one Nevadan supporting the BLM or their removal of the cows. If Nevadans don’t care about which land is used for grazing, why should a bureaucrat who works for the federal government get to trump that?

I had the opportunity to meet the American-minded Bundy supporters from all over our country. They were peacefully protesting the BLM’s actions, and I’m excited to report the Bundy family was successful in keeping the peace until the BLM stopped their roundup and returned the Bundy’s cattle.

I’ll also report the actions of some spineless, poor-excuses of BLM staffers. An armed BLM officer picked up Mr. Bundy’s elderly sister from behind, a total sneak attack, and body slammed her to the ground; there is video footage. This woman is the mother of 11 and just survived cancer. Following that brutal incident, another BLM officer ordered his dog to attack Mr. Bundy’s son, Ammon, and as Ammon Bundy was trying to get the dog off his leg, the Nazi-minded bully tazed him twice, once in the neck and the second one right above the heart. As if that wasn’t enough, the brutal BLM thugs beat up Dave Bundy, a pilot out of Las Vegas, detained him, stole his iPad because it contained the brutal footage, confiscated many other items out of his car, transported him to Henderson where he was further detained, then released him in the middle of street. They didn’t stop there. No, they detained two more young guys while they were herding some more cattle in Overton.

These men and woman are Americans attacking Americans. I’m speechless. If you saw the number of police agencies united, I’d hope you’d be curious. We are talking about dozens of our finest SWAT members from Metro, Metro black & white cars, EMT, fire rescue trucks, detention buses (a.k.a. Paddy wagons), over 50 Ranger and BLM vehicles, numerous highway patrol vehicles, and a Black Hawk Helicopter on the Moapa airfield, just to name a few. We watched the Waco Massacre and Ruby Ridge; was the BLM preparing for a “Bunkerville Slaughter”? I believe in my heart because of these last two disasters, Americans from all over our country traveled from afar to stand with the Bundys and let our government know enough is enough. I’m proud to stand with my fellow Americans.

The numbers do not calculate. The federal government had the authority and an open checkbook to spend 10 million dollars or more for a maximum return of $200,000. Here’s how I calculate that number: the BLM might collect maybe 400 heads of cattle, taking into account the number of cattle they would kill while rounding them up. From the round up, the cattle would go to auction. How much do you think you’ll pay for a half-dead, beat up cow? Let’s say they were able to successful auction off 400 cows for $500.00 each (I’m being very very generous). The brainiac head of BLM authorized 10 million dollars or more to maybe recoup $200,000. Really? As a CEO I’d fire that decision-maker immediately. In their minds, maybe it’s worth getting rid of the cows, or just killing them, so the cows won’t destroy equipment for a project they might want to implement.

The BLM tried to paint their actions as enforcing the law; however, there are several other reasons why the BLM chose to pick this fight. It cannot be a coincidence that the place where the Bundy’s have grazed their cattle for hundreds of years would suddenly become an animal refuge for desert tortoises; is it really desert tortoises? If so, why would the BLM be euthanizing them? That’s right, BLM has EUTHANIZED 700-800 desert tortoises. Trust but verify. Click here to read one of many stories about it.

We’re also seeing reports that the BLM land in Gold Butte is very desirable for energy projects, which may have prompted this sudden strong-arm tactic. Don’t trust me, verify it. Click here to read the BLM’s own report on the project.

A major concern in all of this was how the BLM treated the cattle. It is completely irresponsible that after years of conversations, the Feds would begin their roundup during the season when calves are being born. In this mess, newborn calves were separated from their mothers; some were trampled in their holding pens and left for dead. A helicopter acted as a cowboy to herd the cows, causing a few to have heart attacks and die. The conditions of the holding pens where they kept the cows for days were heartless and cruel. Where was PETA?

I do want to comment about the upstanding citizens who came to show their support, including the Oath Keepers, a non-partisan association of current and formerly serving military, police, and first responders who are committed to defending the Constitution. They are honorable men and women who acted professionally and respectfully. There were many groups of freedom fighters who traveled from all over our country to stand together. I have a very serious request to all agency officers and that request is, “not to obey your superiors when given a direct order to attack your fellow Americans fighting for the freedoms granted to us by our Constitution”. Take a sick day or a vacation.

I didn’t become an elected official to join an elite club; I ran for office to protect the people and be a true voice for the people. I take my oath seriously. It’s time for Nevada to stand up to the federal government and demand the return of the BLM lands to the people of Nevada. BLM has shown their true colors and agenda. As elected officials in Nevada, it is our responsibility to be leaders on this issue and work together, Republicans and Democrats, to make sure this doesn’t happen ever again. Together we need to write legislation to protect our state’s rights from the Feds.

Never forget, “This land is your land, this land is my land”…

Yours truly,

Michele Fiore

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From the above article. It is a long, but interesting read.

http://www.blm.gov/pgdata/etc/medialib/blm/wo/blm_library/tech_notes.Par...

For those concerned over the distance of the "mitigated lands" from the actual solar developement that dismissed the connection on those grounds......................................
please note this from the BLM "report"

Page 3,m 1.2 Background
"Furthermore, not all adverse impacts can or must be fully mitigated either onsite or in the immediate region.

Page 4, 1.3 Solar regional mitigation strategy process

of Critical Environmental Concern
(ACEC), but for which sufficient
resources have been unavailable.
The Gold Butte ACEC is in the same
ecological zone (ecoregion) and
subzone as the Dry Lake SEZ and is
of the same vegetation community.
The Gold Butte ACEC provides
habitat for all of the wildlife,
including the special status species,
found in the Dry Lake SEZ.
Under the terms of this strategy,
funding derived from mitigation
fees for the Dry Lake SEZ will not
be sufficient to fund all of the
potential restoration and protection
needs in the Gold Butte ACEC, but
they will allow significant progress
toward achieving the management
objectives for the ACEC: to preserve
the extraordinary resource values
found there while providing for
human use and enjoyment. As
part of the proposed solar energy
program, the solar long-term
monitoring program will be used
to evaluate the effectiveness of
mitigation strategies employed
through regional mitigation plans.
Regional mitigation strategies will
be subject to continued review
and adjustment by the BLM and
its partners to ensure conservation

goals and objectives are being met
of Critical Environmental Concern

(ACEC), but for which sufficient
resources have been unavailable.
The Gold Butte ACEC is in the same
ecological zone (ecoregion) and
subzone as the Dry Lake SEZ and is
of the same vegetation community.
The Gold Butte ACEC provides
habitat for all of the wildlife,
including the special status species,
found in the Dry Lake SEZ.
Under the terms of this strategy,
funding derived from mitigation
fees for the Dry Lake SEZ will not
be sufficient to fund all of the
potential restoration and protection
needs in the Gold Butte ACEC, but
they will allow significant progress
toward achieving the management
objectives for the ACEC: to preserve
the extraordinary resource values
found there while providing for
human use and enjoyment. As
part of the proposed solar energy
program, the solar long-term
monitoring program will be used
to evaluate the effectiveness of
mitigation strategies employed
through regional mitigation plans.
Regional mitigation strategies will
be subject to continued review
and adjustment by the BLM and
its partners to ensure conservation

goals and objectives are being met

Couldn;t help but notice a lack of mention of grazing under the multiple use agreements in their "plan".

If anyone is interested, take the time to read thru this. They clearly speak about the "regional" mitigation and if one wishes to have a somewhat unbiased view, you tend to see that grazing was not part of the plan.

It explains the BLM beginning to destroy water systems and fences.

If one wishes to believe that after 20 years, 52 ranchers removed, billions of dollars at stake suddenly this is not about mitigation for development tied back to Reid and family but rather one rancher and not paying fees................................................

Page 34. Table 2-6

34
• REGIONAL MITIGATION STRATEGY FOR THE DRY LAKE SOLAR ENERGY ZONE • TECHNICAL NOTE 444
Table 2-6.
Priority/order of Gold Butte Area of Critical Environmental Concern mitigation goals and objectives.
Goal
Task
Action
Item
Description
Priority/
Order
1
Prevent further degradation of the ACEC, and ensure the durability of the conservation investment in the Gold Butte ACEC.
1
Augment law enforcement.

"Augment law enforcement". Seems like they were planning this show of force to remove the last man standing.

Now I may have missed in in the 44 pages, but did anyone else see where there was mention of allowed grazing?

I did notice the following.

 

page 44


In order to fund the
recommended mitigation
actions, monitoring, and adaptive
management, the project team
recommends a regional mitigation
fee be assessed to the developer(s)
similar to the example provided
in Section 2.6. This fee will be in
addition to the Endangered Species
Act Section 7 fee (currently $824/
acre). It is recommended that a
third-party entity be retained to
manage mitigation funds.

 

$824/acre plus other fees????? a fair bit more than they were charging Bundy I bet.

Indeed follow the money and you will end up two places, Sen Reids families pocket and the "third party" enviromental groups being paid off by "managing" these  mitigation funds.

Maybe this IS about a rancher not paying his grazing fees considering the alternative amounts that will end up in other people pockets.

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For all of you who think Bundy is a criminal why do you think he quit paying in 1993 rather than (pick any year before that)?  Why would the Bundy family obey the law for over a hundred years then decide to break it?

"The only enemy of guns is rust and politicians."

"The best defense against usurpatory government is an assertive citizenry."

William F. Buckley, Jr.
"Unarmed helplessness is for sheep and the French."  Ted Nugent

"The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it."
 -Thomas Jefferson

The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.
-Thomas Jefferson

 

 

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Sd jack rabbit. My phone sucks. I was trying to quote your post about gabe posting 14 times in a row without one response. I was laughing my ass off when I read it. I once saw him respond to a post with only emoticons too....a bunch of em. I do believe he holds all fbo records. It is his life you know and there is no way he can deny that. All one has to do is count how many times he posts to prove it.

If god didn't want us to eat animals....he wouldn't have made them out of food.

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wstnodak Said:
Sd jack rabbit. My phone sucks. I was trying to quote your post about gabe posting 14 times in a row without one response. I was laughing my ass off when I read it. I once saw him respond to a post with only emoticons too....a bunch of em. I do believe he holds all fbo records. It is his life you know and there is no way he can deny that. All one has to do is count how many times he posts to prove it.

If one cares to ponder what could possibly be even more obvious, is the childish nature of someone who only posts to malign someone else rather than ever discussing an actual topic. When it comes to that partricular record james you are king among a small handful of record holders.

You know james I have said many times, if your friends would sign their name to their posts perhaps the level of bullshit in their posts that I spend time exposing would decrease.  Maybe you can crawl out from behind your computer screen and start for them.

Plasinamn accuses me of only posting about ag related topics on these "hunting and fishing websites".  Perhaps if he and ron and a couple others would stop posting their bullshit, I wouldn;t even have to post at all. (well there is the fishmahn progressive liberal crap I guess)

West, do you have anything to actually say about the topic?

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There is a species becoming endangered in the North Dakota Badlands related to grazing too.  I would guess some things will change out there in a few years.

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Plainsman Said:
There is a species becoming endangered in the North Dakota Badlands related to grazing too.  I would guess some things will change out there in a few years.

They are called ranchers Bruce.

But you would like to see this "species" extint on these Federal lands despite your false claims otherwise.

But indeed Bruce, perhaps some things will change in a few years. The Hage case that you claim to support might set the precedence.

I wonder how quick you will change your tune if or when it actually does.

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Interesting stuff coming to light, be interesting to watch if it goes anywhere and what can be proved.

Some things seem to be tying others together more and more as the light shines brighter.

http://articles.latimes.com/2003/jun/23/nation/na-sons23

Remember early on and the mention of the Hughes Corp. and their plotting of the BLM lands around the Bundy ranch?

The following two videos on this link are interesting, if true.

http://prepperchimp.com/2014/04/20/must-see-video-blm-whistleblower-reid...

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These are images of the cattle that were killed and buried at the Bundy Ranch.

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Plainsman Said:
There is a species becoming endangered in the North Dakota Badlands related to OIL DEVELOPMENT.  I would guess some things will change out there in a few years.

              Fixed it for you! 


"If God didn't want us to hunt, He wouldn't have given us plaid shirts; I only kill in self defense—what would you do if a rabbit pulled a knife on you?"

Floyd R. Turbo

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Hit a nerve there gabe by pointing out that your life revolves around fbo!? Ive told you before that it is impossible for one to converse with the likes of you so I guess I dont have anything to say. Keep calm and type on gabe!

If god didn't want us to eat animals....he wouldn't have made them out of food.

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Thanks PBer, had seen these earlier.  They are all over the internet if anyone wants to take the time to find out a little bit.

Plainsman Said:
If this happened here in ND

My point is you want to whine about something that may or may not have happened.  Are you running out of things to complain about.  If if if if was my point.  You proud of your third grade comments, but you should have understood the story.  I'm saying why ask about something that no one knows.  If they took the mama cows, if the babies starved.  Of course it's as real as your Reid linked to Bund bs, so what could I expect.

Duh me be done now. 

"Lord, I apologize for that one there, and please be with all the starving Pygmies down there in New Guinea."

"He's trying to be funny - it's a joke"

 
 

What sadly is not a joke is that people like plainsamn will disregard and dismiss actions like this and the facts behind this and rather attack people personally instead of taking the time to find out for themselves what the truth is and admitting it.

The govt is counting on people just like that.

Bruce, perhaps you should take your own advice underlined above.

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wstnodak Said:
Hit a nerve there gabe by pointing out that your life revolves around fbo!? Ive told you before that it is impossible for one to converse with the likes of you so I guess I dont have anything to say. Keep calm and type on gabe!

Lots life outside FBO west, belong to several orgs in our community and state, family, friends, ranch rodeo, hunting, ice fishing, shed hunting, Should actually be working with a couple horses now instead of spending as much time on here as I do, (kinda similar though, dealing with a couple horses and part of their anatomy and a few people on here) but dealing with those ones with four legs would be a lot more satisfying. Kinda stuck at home calving right now.

Sadly other than childish petty personal crap, no you don;t James.

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Plainsman one simple question, do you think the Federal govt knows what is best for individual states?

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Anybody know if there is published peer reviewed scientific study that concludes cattle cant graze in harmony with the desert tortoise.  From what I've read it takes 320 acres to run a cow calf pair.  I find it hard to believe that two cows and two calves per section could possibly disrupt the precious tortoise.  How about those god damn wild horses and donkeys.  Why aren't they banned from the land?

"The only enemy of guns is rust and politicians."

"The best defense against usurpatory government is an assertive citizenry."

William F. Buckley, Jr.
"Unarmed helplessness is for sheep and the French."  Ted Nugent

"The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it."
 -Thomas Jefferson

The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.
-Thomas Jefferson

 

 

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cynical Said:
Anybody know if there is published peer reviewed scientific study that concludes cattle cant graze in harmony with the desert tortoise.  From what I've read it takes 320 acres to run a cow calf pair.  I find it hard to believe that two cows and two calves per section could possibly disrupt the precious tortoise.  How about those god damn wild horses and donkeys.  Why aren't they banned from the land?

any more cynical that is nothing more than a "how do we get more Federal monies" study.

It seems casinos and housing developments don't bother the tortoise.  At least not enough that a few millions dollars in the right places won't overlook.


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Ya I have a hard time believing after 120+ years of grazing that land it is the cows that's hurting that poor little guy.Especially when the permits they granted in place of grazing(solar energy) are said to do just as much if not more damage.

cynical Said:
Anybody know if there is published peer reviewed scientific study that concludes cattle cant graze in harmony with the desert tortoise.  From what I've read it takes 320 acres to run a cow calf pair.  I find it hard to believe that two cows and two calves per section could possibly disrupt the precious tortoise.  How about those god damn wild horses and donkeys.  Why aren't they banned from the land?

I dont go around guessing cup sizes either I just know a nice rack when I see one.

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 doublebarrelsaloon Said:

Ya I have a hard time believing after 120+ years of grazing that land it is the cows that's hurting that poor little guy.Especially when the permits they granted in place of grazing(solar energy) are said to do just as much if not more damage.

They (solar energy projects) do damage to the tortoise's habitat according to the BLM.  That is why there needs to be mitigating lands (Bundy's) elsewhere to allow the development of the solar projects and give the tortoises somewhere also to live.  Not sure who picks them up and moves them tho!

Steve.

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An article about the Gardner ranch in Nevada that also fell victim:  www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/586067/posts

Another great concern to us is that, if we do not use the mountain for our cattle to show beneficial use on our VESTED WATER RIGHTS we lose it.

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Pber, an interesting read, one of many examples all across the west of what happened to ranchers that stood up and did not take the govt's forced change to the multiple use agreements that existed since these lands came to be under the govt's control.

While grazing cattle is being systematically removed, development of these Federal lands is expanding at a correlating rate. Peoples pockets are being lined to allow this to happen.

And yet people who claim to have the best interests of conservation at the forefront make excuses and false claims to deny what these actions by the govt are truly about.

They will not ask why is there a connection back to the late 80's/early 90's in all these cases?

They will not take the time to learn what many in the ranching industry already know.

They deny the facts and instead try to make it about a couple of individuals they have petty personal dislikes for.

Meanwhile the govt expands their authoratative control over us incrementally and tightens the yoke of tyranny tell we can no longer break free.

Who will be the first to cry out when it is their rights and way of life being taken away????

You guessed it.

Credibility.


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It's all about control.  Liberals and career "civil servants" can't get enough control.  They must keep taking more to justify their position and existence.  They also hate the rancher because he is historically a no nonsense self reliant independent spirit.  That rubs liberals the wrong way.

"The only enemy of guns is rust and politicians."

"The best defense against usurpatory government is an assertive citizenry."

William F. Buckley, Jr.
"Unarmed helplessness is for sheep and the French."  Ted Nugent

"The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it."
 -Thomas Jefferson

The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.
-Thomas Jefferson

 

 

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Lou Dobbs is apparently a "dumbass" as well.

But  listen to the tid bit that is revealed at 3.55 in the following video.

It seems the judge that has ruled against Mr. Bundy was approved for a position on the Supreme Court by Sen. Reid.

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For those that have admitted Wayne Hage was right in his stand, it appears in the above video he was there supporting the Bundys.


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gst Said:
For those that have admitted Wayne Hage was right in his stand, it appears in the above video he was there supporting the Bundys.

Here is an article from MSNBC

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/are-we-nation-cliven-bundys

"The only enemy of guns is rust and politicians."

"The best defense against usurpatory government is an assertive citizenry."

William F. Buckley, Jr.
"Unarmed helplessness is for sheep and the French."  Ted Nugent

"The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it."
 -Thomas Jefferson

The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.
-Thomas Jefferson

 

 

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Seems like the prudent thing to do is remove sen ried.

                                                                                                                         

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This has spread out into what looks like six different debatable things.  So many and some posts so long I have not read them.  Where do we stand on the original subject?  I still say anyone who grazes cattle for 20 years and doesn't pay should have enough intelligence to know he is doing something wrong.  The courts say he is wrong, and I watched him lie on Sean Hannity.

As to the reasons Bundy is loosing his grazing rights, that's another story with mixed feelings.  I think because he didn't pay his fees he should loose those grazing rights.  As far as the tortoise I don't think anyone on here knows the requirements of the species.  At least I hope no one is arrogant enough to think they know that. 

Harry Reid?  I don't like the guy, and if he did something wrong the people of Nevada, or our congress should do something about it.  Did he do something wrong?  I would bet my life he has done many things wrong.  I don't know if this is one of them. 

Things are not going to be good in the next years.  Like I have said many times when you have a million people in a city voting one way and 500 ranchers voting another who do you think is going to win?

gst tries to tell people I am anti grazing even though for many years in private messages I have told him why I am for grazing at reasonable rates.  I think grazing is a good management tool because idle land is worse than grazed.  Vegetative build up from no grazing or fire is nearly as bad as overgrazing.  Both change the vegetative community by allowing invasive species to overcome native plants.  I could go on for pages why I think grazing should be allowed, but when people have an agenda counter to the people they are trying to deceive they will pay no attention. 

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Plainsman Said:

This has spread out into what looks like six different debatable things.  So many and some posts so long I have not read them.  So you admit you have not taken the time to inform yourself, but yet you want people to accept what you claim as fact and truth. Where do we stand on the original subject?  I still say anyone who grazes cattle for 20 years and doesn't pay should have enough intelligence to know he is doing something wrong.  The courts say he is wrong, The judge that was promoted by Reid for a spot on the SCOTUS.  and I watched him lie on Sean Hannity.

As to the reasons Bundy is loosing his grazing rights, that's another story with mixed feelings.  I think because he didn't pay his fees he should loose those grazing rights.  As far as the tortoise I don't think anyone on here knows the requirements of the species.  At least I hope no one is arrogant enough to think they know that. Perhaps those "trained professional biologists" that were euthanizing them by the hundreds would know Bruce. 

Harry Reid?  I don't like the guy, and if he did something wrong the people of Nevada, or our congress should do something about it.  Did he do something wrong?  I would bet my life he has done many things wrong.  I don't know if this is one of them. 

Things are not going to be good in the next years.  Like I have said many times when you have a million people in a city voting one way and 500 ranchers voting another who do you think is going to win?

So what should thse ranchers do bruce just capitualte to govt over reach and move of these lands thy have legally used for generations?

Perhaps when these millions watch the monies they spend on food double they will care less about bullshit claims about tortoises and how their food is produced.

gst tries to tell people I am anti grazing even though for many years in private messages I have told him why I am for grazing at reasonable rates. Bruce given your repeated tendencies to spout of bullshit that simply is not true, why should these calims be any more beleivable than any other false claims you make?

Do you begin to see the importance of credibility Bruce?

  I think grazing is a good management tool because idle land is worse than grazed.  Vegetative build up from no grazing or fire is nearly as bad as overgrazing.  Both change the vegetative community by allowing invasive species to overcome native plants.  I could go on for pages why I think grazing should be allowed, but when people have an agenda counter to the people they are trying to deceive they will pay no attention. So when the Federal agency you pay your fees to as a rancher begins to use them to remove your ability to graze lands tied to the water rights you have proven up for generations in direct conflict with the multiple use agreements these lads were originally started under, ................................And you have corrupt govt officials, judges, county commissioners, Senators,...........................  I mean if you truly beleive grazing is a good thing that should be allowed bruce what would YOU have done if it was YOUR family in this situation?

Rememeber Bruce YOU inferred  bundy was a domestic terrorist" just as Sen Reid did.
 

 

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