Nevada BLM actions background

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Fritz I would not assume that the people of ND do not want more public land, you may not want it but unless you have a respected poll stating that do not assume so. I do not know if the people of ND want more or not and do not hold the arrogance to claim so.

It must be really frustrating to have what you all assumed to be a great publicity issue blow up in your collective faces. I spent the evening at a birthday party among ranchers and farmers and some of the ranchers run cattle in the Sandhills on Gov land. Only one of the dozen hold any sympathy for Bundy. The rest collectively felt he was wrong has had his day in court and is a black eye to paraphrase the sentiment.

Terms like thief, crook, land grabber, arrogant fool, stupid, idiot just to name a few of the terms that they used to describe him. They also where upset with his armed supporters whom they thought even less of.

On the other hand all of them felt the BLM had issues and that Congress should reign them in on the over reach and that is the proper course of action. Many of them have had dealing with Gov agencies in regards to use and changes etc.. on the pastures or hayland they rent. Not always to their liking. but all but one said you have choices and none of those choices included continued use without paying for the use.

The longer this goes and the more Bundy speaks and the real facts get out, the more damage this moron is doing to people who are being wronged. Public support and opinions are quickly turning against them as a result of Bundy and his minions. A good number of them where really shocked as well at your and Gabes comments, especially Gabes attempt to cloud the issue with outright likes via insinuation. They all read my responses to this as well, smart phones handy. So take what I am saying as this! They broke down the issues much as I had in my postings!

Support the right thing on this, and drop the Bundy angle. It is hurting more than helping. Especially since the facts are simply a finger tip away on a keyboard!!

The best comment of the night was a back and forth between a recently retired farmer and his renter. The renter said hey thanks for renting me your land. Now I get to farm it free for 20 years !!!! That caused a good deal of laughter!!!

Fun night, lots of talk or what the spring outlook is, when frost will come out, soil temps, moisture levels.Concerns about fertilizer and fuel, some talk of the new farm bill and even talk about the attempted railroad of the Ag commissioner by FB!

In my lifetime I have seen fence row to fence row farming and the return of CRP and game to the landscape.Now we face again the prosepect of fence row to fence row again! Sportsman are our own worst enemy in that we fail to look forward and focus to much on the now!

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Ron,

I liked Wayne Hage and have met some of his family members. Good people.

Bundy????

Yesterday on the national news, dingy Harry called Bundy as his people domestic terrorists.

Maybe Nevada will finally vote Harry Reid out. Wouldn't that be nice?

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Terms like thief, crook, land grabber, arrogant fool, stupid, idiot just to name a few of the terms that they used to describe him. They also where upset with his armed supporters whom they thought even less of.

Thank you Hardwater man for posting this.  It restores my faith in the average farmer/rancher after Fritz and gst have done so much to destroy  it.    I am very serious it restored my original thoughts about them when it was decaying each day debating the "we are God's gift to humanity" bs we read on here.   I hope your farmer/rancher friends to read this and understand how much we appreciate their honesty.  God bless them. 

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Fritz I have read a good deal on the Hage Family never met them but they seem like good people and the son, damn smart. They are the type of people that need to be the faces that promote the push for change. I support their claims and wish them well in the next round against the Gov.

Dirty harry is exactly that, while I disliked Dashle and his party, to me he was not the corrupt dealer that Reid was.

There needs to be a push to look into his dealings with the Chinnese and the nepotism as well. It will not happen though when Bundy is the catalyst to promote that type of action.

In my lifetime I have seen fence row to fence row farming and the return of CRP and game to the landscape.Now we face again the prosepect of fence row to fence row again! Sportsman are our own worst enemy in that we fail to look forward and focus to much on the now!

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 Bundy is an idiot. Seriously he has a screw loose. The land was never his or the states. This would be like me renting land from someone else and they decide to stop renting to me and do something else with the land only I just keep squatting on it. Can't believe there are clowns that actually stick up for him.

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Hardwaterman Said:
Fritz I have read a good deal on the Hage Family never met them but they seem like good people and the son, damn smart. They are the type of people that need to be the faces that promote the push for change. I support their claims and wish them well in the next round against the Gov.

Dirty harry is exactly that, while I disliked Dashle and his party, to me he was not the corrupt dealer that Reid was.

There needs to be a push to look into his dealings with the Chinnese and the nepotism as well. It will not happen though when Bundy is the catalyst to promote that type of action.

How did your friends feel about the feds coming in and kicking these ranchers(Bundy is just the last one) off the land in the name of the tortoise or for "other uses" connected to dirty politics.  That is the big issue.  It takes a really small person to just say he is a deadbeat because he quit paying his grazing fees.  Look at the big picture.  Heavy handed government going along with radical environmental agenda and political cronyism.  How about the blm siding with wild horses and donkeys over ranchers?  Did they talk about that or just the fact he quit paying?  

2nd topic,  ask your buddies how they would feel if they were in this situation...I'd bet they would change their f-ing tune.  Imagine the government designating your buddies land as "sacred Indian land" or you use your imagination and come up with another concocted scenario....and they take the land.  Come on hardwaterman....ask them my questions and see what they think

  http://misguidedchildren.com/domestic-affairs/2014/04/red-river-rumble-b...

 

red river

The Red River is the boundary between Texas and Oklahoma…or is it?

Byers, Texas along the Red River — The BLM stole 140 acres of the Tommy Henderson ranch thirty  years ago. They took his land and paid him absolutely nothing. He sued and lost. Now  the BLM is using that court case as precedent to do it again. The problem is, the land they want to seize is property that  ranchers  have a deed for and have paid taxes on for over a hundred years.

The BLM claims that about 90,000 acres (116 miles along the Red River) have never belonged to Texas in the first place. They will seize the land and it will seriously change the boundaries between the two states.

Avulsion verses Accretion

 

Since 1803 when the Louisiana Purchase was completed, there has been a controversy over the boundary between Oklahoma and Texas. The boundary is supposed to be the vegetation line on the south side of the Red River. But the River has moved over time. The problem is the definition of that boundary line- Oklahoma and Texas each use different semantics to define it. And the BLM is finding ways to use the disputed words to give them the ability to seize the  land.

According to the BLM, the Red River is always Accretion (gradual accumulation of sediment) to the south, and always Avulsion             (rapid formation of a new river channel) to the north.  So according to the BLM, the boundary only moves one direction, never in the direction that favors the ranchers. They are looking to re-draw the entire portion of the Red River boundary. That includes 90,000 acres of land along a 116 mile stretch of the river.

“BLM officials believe they have a responsibility to manage land they believe is federal which includes an estimated 90,000 acres along 116 miles of the Red River. If land is found to be public, BLM officials say they have three options: leave the land open, closed, or open with limitations.” January 2014

Public input ignored?

Pages: 1 2

"The only enemy of guns is rust and politicians."

"The best defense against usurpatory government is an assertive citizenry."

William F. Buckley, Jr.
"Unarmed helplessness is for sheep and the French."  Ted Nugent

"The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it."
 -Thomas Jefferson

The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.
-Thomas Jefferson

 

 

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E.Springers Said:
Gst... you have stooped to new lows in your unwillingness to acknowledge fellow ranchers and farmers are capable of being wrong. This mother fucker doesn't own the land, doesn't recognize the us government, can't prove his water rights, has lost his court battles, refuses to appeal cause he knows he will lose, thumbs his nose at the order to get his cows off someone else's property, won't pay his debt and then takes up arms against the authorities who are attempting to enforce a legal court order using women as human shields. These aren't jim crow laws and he ain't np Rosa parks or martin Luther king.... he is a fucking god damn terrorist and a criminal and if he gets a bullet in the head, he deserves it. I can't believe even you have tried to defend him for 12 pages... its a new low for the defender of all things ag...

Desperately trying to stay away and at the same time desperately trying to get kicked off.

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cynical, are you like gabe and have a reading comprehension problem as well? I stated clearly that they feel that Congress needs to reign in the over reach by them, but unlike you, they realize that this is where the fix has to come or from the courts.

It changes nothing in regards to Bundy and his poor choices that created the mess he put himself in.

So you want to pee in their oatmeal and defend and champion Bundy go right ahead, because it is not going to garner any support to put restraint and controls back in place on the BLM or other Gov. agencies that are doing the bidding of the current administration.

If you are as dense as Gabe and cannot see this and see then rant away all you want. None of what they have possibly done wrong makes what Bundy and the armed idiots are attempting right!!

As I said to Fritz put the right face forward to get the public support for change, stop parading Bundy and the armed supporters as the face of the change you desire. It fall flat even with people that are more inclined to have supporting views!!!

The issue you have listed is worth exposing, sharing and seeking correct answers to. So are the proposed rule changes the EPA is seeking regarding waterways. All of that are worth exposing to the light of day and people both ag and non ag related can and would and will support the rights of landowners. BUT KEEP USING BUNDY AND IT WILL BE YOUR OATMEAL THAT GETS DOUSED!!!!!

In my lifetime I have seen fence row to fence row farming and the return of CRP and game to the landscape.Now we face again the prosepect of fence row to fence row again! Sportsman are our own worst enemy in that we fail to look forward and focus to much on the now!

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Hey Plainsman,

Trying to find a silver lining in here.

Let's say Bundy gets bucked off his horse and is gone tomorrow, but the voters in Nevada are finally fed up with dingy Harry and they vote him out, would that be a bad thing?

Would we you to put you on suicide watch because one of your hero's of conservation was gone from Washington DC?

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Fritz lets forget about Bundy and hope they vote the crook out. He is an exploiter nothing more. I do not see him as a champion of conservation, far from it.

In my lifetime I have seen fence row to fence row farming and the return of CRP and game to the landscape.Now we face again the prosepect of fence row to fence row again! Sportsman are our own worst enemy in that we fail to look forward and focus to much on the now!

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Where is the outrage over the f@@@ing farmers and their welfare they get every year to raise crops they know won't work? People are all for the govt. as long as it benefits them. Little dothey know they are signing away their freedom every time they sign a contract and report their acreage. I used to be in the "program", but I'm not anymore. They call sometimes three times a week using an almost threatening dialogue to try to get me to report my acreage. They just can't stand not knowing. The last rep that I talked to really ticked me off and I told her to mind her own f##$ing business. This is about government control and nothing else.

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What if some farmer was in violation of some govt regulation and said farmer descided to get out rather than comply. Would the govt. send armed thugs to collect or maybe they would put on the news that said farmer owes 2 million back to the govt for benefits received over the years. Can you imagine the uproar?????

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Fritz the Cat Said:
Hey Plainsman,

Trying to find a silver lining in here.

Let's say Bundy gets bucked off his horse and is gone tomorrow, but the voters in Nevada are finally fed up with dingy Harry and they vote him out, would that be a bad thing?

Would we you to put you on suicide watch because one of your hero's of conservation was gone from Washington DC?

I don't want Bundy hurt, just honest.  Harry Reid gone would be great.  The NRA ticked me off when they supported him last time.  I still can't figure that out.  At least I heard they supported him because of money for some shooting range.

You know every time you start to make some sense you have to crap in it and make a dumb statement like the last sentence.  In one post you go from reasonable to idiot.  I actually don't think Reid is a conservationist if that's who you were hinting at.  They should throw him and Bundy in the same cell. 

Sickofthesmoke I understand your last post.  I would be frustrated in your position also.  I can see supporting landowners like yourself.  Please don't take my frustration with Fritz and gst supporting a criminal as not supporting farmers in your position.  Evidently your one of a few that are actually independent people.  My hats off to you. 

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Hardwaterman Said:
cynical, are you like gabe and have a reading comprehension problem as well? I stated clearly that they feel that Congress needs to reign in the over reach by them, but unlike you, they realize that this is where the fix has to come or from the courts.

It changes nothing in regards to Bundy and his poor choices that created the mess he put himself in.

So you want to pee in their oatmeal and defend and champion Bundy go right ahead, because it is not going to garner any support to put restraint and controls back in place on the BLM or other Gov. agencies that are doing the bidding of the current administration.

If you are as dense as Gabe and cannot see this and see then rant away all you want. None of what they have possibly done wrong makes what Bundy and the armed idiots are attempting right!!

As I said to Fritz put the right face forward to get the public support for change, stop parading Bundy and the armed supporters as the face of the change you desire. It fall flat even with people that are more inclined to have supporting views!!!

The issue you have listed is worth exposing, sharing and seeking correct answers to. So are the proposed rule changes the EPA is seeking regarding waterways. All of that are worth exposing to the light of day and people both ag and non ag related can and would and will support the rights of landowners. BUT KEEP USING BUNDY AND IT WILL BE YOUR OATMEAL THAT GETS DOUSED!!!!!

Ok,  great hardwaterman.  These issues have been known by people paying attention for years and nothing has been done to fix them.  Exactly what do you propose doing?  Write another letter?  I think Cliven was smart.  He knew the people in power would do nothing so why not take his stance.  Really what other option did he have?  Meet with his congressional delegates from NV and beg for help?  Some of them want to bury ranching.  Yeah,  legally he may have done a poor job articulating his position and could have been more tactful but what do you expect from a rancher/farmer?  He needs legal help and it is sad that some powerful groups didn't step in years ago to help.  Your buddies sit back and mock the guy when if they were in his position they would whine like a little girl about it.  Probably wouldnt be men enough to make a stand.  They would just bend over and take it.  But hey,  at least they wouldn't be defying the government.  Government ain't always right.  Our history is full of men with guts who stood up to wrong doing.  I say Cliven has guts.  What say you?

I'll make an analogy,  lets say somehow congress passes a bill or Obama goes executive order to ban hunting on BLM land.  What you gonna do about it?  Shrug your shoulders and say oh well and go on your merry way?

"The only enemy of guns is rust and politicians."

"The best defense against usurpatory government is an assertive citizenry."

William F. Buckley, Jr.
"Unarmed helplessness is for sheep and the French."  Ted Nugent

"The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it."
 -Thomas Jefferson

The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.
-Thomas Jefferson

 

 

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Fritz the Cat Said:
Plains,

That is what everyone has been trying to tell you for ions. Private land looks better then public. Private houses look better then public housing, private bathrooms look better then public ones etc. etc.

We in ND certainly don't want "more" headaches "more" public land. You just said it.

Thank you thank you thank you

I'd love more public land. Most people I know would too. 

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BringingTheRain Said:
 
Fritz the Cat Said:
Plains,

That is what everyone has been trying to tell you for ions. Private land looks better then public. Private houses look better then public housing, private bathrooms look better then public ones etc. etc.

We in ND certainly don't want "more" headaches "more" public land. You just said it.

Thank you thank you thank you

I'd love more public land. Most people I know would too. 

would be alot more useful if the state was in control  of it than the feds

 Adn

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thanks for at least being honest that you think he was smart! What is going to have left when this is all done. Judgements that are legally applied against his cattle and property that will be executed and rightfully so? What a dumbass he was.

The reality is that Hage Family and others are the people that need to be out front and being shown. Instead you want an idiot to be your face! My goodness listen to him ramble the more he talks the more people realize he is clueless!

Public concern and support will and has changed things, will again. But to do that you cannot alienate people that you need support from!! you certainly do not need people like Gabe even though in your minds he is carrying the fight. The people on the edges or those who have a mild interest hear and see the crap he spews like Bundy and they forget about the underlying issues that really are important.

I really got that shown to me last night when the group pulled up and read his continued BS claims and trying to mix and cloud the issues. The Feds moving in did bring this to light, but now the story of what has really happened has been told. Everyone that championed him now has lost the interest and respect that is needed to keep a concern alive.

Truth and fairness are mutually required to change things. not deception and false hoods! Every farm and ranch organization should have been heralding the victory of the Hage family but outside of a few people in this state I doubt they even knew about it. WHY? Everyone knows about the idiot Bundy, very few know about the background though nor about the things you posted about or even the EPA rules. Your good at demonizing at a local level but are clueless to the rest. Someone in FL or Maine not connected do not care, when they see the events around Bundy. but will care and be concerned when people like the Hage family get presented. Outside of the local area there was Little to no coverage of their win. It should been in our papers, on our news and that is because your groups do not get that the ordinary people do not want to see hard working families get the shaft. Losers in court and free loaders do not generate that kind of good will.

When Hage family won, did the Stockmen's Assn. in ND hold a news conference to discuss the victory and start to educate the people on the issues? Did FU or FB for that matter? No they sent out the news letter or email to the people in the Org thinking they have been proactive.  .

Believe it or not we are not the enemy but supporters, but that support will not come when Bundy and people like him are the face!!!+++

Change and how to fix it! Congress is the fix, Hoeven, Heitkamp  others who can attend to business and not grand stand over it. I saw Ron Paul and others from Wash shooting off their mouths, that does nothing! Educate communicate not denigrate and insinuate. Read my very first post on this subject here. To the point and accurate. Instead of working and building on it Gabe lies and trys to imply Reid was involved in Bundy chosing to not renew because of the China deal. He says otherwise but that is what he implied and it is not my opinion alone!  ++

Separate the issues make the case on the BLM, both past and current, show what needs to be done, where it should be fixed, ask for support in getting that done. I know I will be doing just that!

But stop the bull shit!!! Accept and acknowledge that Bundy screwed himself, accept the fact the courts where right in the findings and the Gov has the right to stop the trespass and then get on point on how to fix and avoid this in the future, ask for help in contacting and hearing from the voters. One letter means nothing three hundred is going to get attention if you get my drift.

I pointed out a while back that the interest in the media and social media started to drop was when the facts came out. The simple fact is that now the BLM is still free to continue uncheck and not being looked at because like Bundy people like you chose wrong and lost any advantage of public support outside of your click from occurring.

As a whole people do not hate ag produers but do not support people like Bundy nor would they support people that speak the rhetoric of Gabe and you it seems. Learn from this!!

There is a major fight coming yet from a lot of places inside this Adm from EPA rules to BLM and Forest Service etc..... They know if they keep you in your click without the support from others they can silence you. Do not take actions that drive support away. That is what happened and is continuing to happen in NV as long as Bundy is championed. Pull your head out and think about it~~~

See what others see, hear what others hear, and understand what they are thinking!!

I heard it loud and clear last night, not what I expected when the subject came up! You do not even have the support on this one from within the ranks of Ag and the reason is you are backing the face!!! Bundy and supporters of him have done more to set you back than anyone else!!! Think about that~! If you do not have legal standing on claims don't support them just because!!! That is the problem there is never any admission that someone from your ranks can or could do or be wrong. Not going to win with that attitude.

You get outside your comfort circle and listen!! Bundy is poison or cancer that until cut away will continue to rot away. Lose the poor me attitude, and superior attitude as well make people feel that they have an interest in seeing all users of public lands get a fair shake. From the rancher to the hiker from native species to those introduced by man. Make that effort to restore that collective feeling of unity. Sportsmen would join not wanting the BLM to stop their access, others who are not hunters but have a vision of the cowboy want that to remain. Others as well are getting tired or all the red tape and rule changes. These are all allies! The issue is the rule makers and they come out of Washingon so fix it there!!

In my lifetime I have seen fence row to fence row farming and the return of CRP and game to the landscape.Now we face again the prosepect of fence row to fence row again! Sportsman are our own worst enemy in that we fail to look forward and focus to much on the now!

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Say you got to the point in your political career in Washington that you could do something. First thing that come to mind is lets get some term limits. How long would your political career last? My guess is not very long. They tar and feather you by digging up dirt, or calling you a racist or a bigot, or if that doesn't work they say you don't care about the environment. One way or another your political career will be over and the crooks stay while the ones fighting for whats right are gone.

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BringingTheRain Said:
 

Fritz the Cat Said:
Plains,

That is what everyone has been trying to tell you for ions. Private land looks better then public. Private houses look better then public housing, private bathrooms look better then public ones etc. etc.

We in ND certainly don't want "more" headaches "more" public land. You just said it.

Thank you thank you thank you

I'd love more public land. Most people I know would too. 

What would you do with it?

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E.Springers Said:
Gst... you have stooped to new lows in your unwillingness to acknowledge fellow ranchers and farmers are capable of being wrong. This mother fucker doesn't own the land, doesn't recognize the us government, can't prove his water rights, has lost his court battles, refuses to appeal cause he knows he will lose, thumbs his nose at the order to get his cows off someone else's property, won't pay his debt and then takes up arms against the authorities who are attempting to enforce a legal court order using women as human shields. These aren't jim crow laws and he ain't np Rosa parks or martin Luther king.... he is a fucking god damn terrorist and a criminal and if he gets a bullet in the head, he deserves it. I can't believe even you have tried to defend him for 12 pages... its a new low for the defender of all things ag...

Easy there big fella.

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Hardwaterman Said:

So again gst I have addressed why I am calling you a bold faced liar one more time and it is very simple to follow and understand.

Indeed it is ron, by your own standards you do not understand 3rd grade English or 3rd grade reading. .

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Plainsman Said:

Among the conservation measures required are the elimination of livestock grazing

It's public land why should grazing be the number one priority.  Where has anyone said it should be number one priority? These lands as ladd mentioned were entered into multiple use agreements. The govt is breaking those agreements.

And the Founding Fathers should have just paid the taxes on the tea I suppose as well.


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Hardwaterman Said:

The longer this goes and the more Bundy speaks and the real facts get out, the more damage this moron is doing to people who are being wronged. Public support and opinions are quickly turning against them as a result of Bundy and his minions. A good number of them where really shocked as well at your and Gabes comments, especially Gabes attempt to cloud the issue with outright likes via insinuation. They all read my responses to this as well, smart phones handy. So take what I am saying as this! They broke down the issues much as I had in my postings!

Nice story ron.

Prove what I have posted is not factual.

Funny, I was at a bull sale today and not one single rancher thought the BLM was in the right. Not one single rancher thought this was actually about grazing fees.

They all know there is a concerted effort to remove cattle from these lands for a variety of agenda driven reasons one of which is development at the hands of Sen. Reids cohorts.

But then again, most were pretty well informed.

Caught What's on Your Mind on the way home, seems like most people had a very different veiw than what you are claiming ron.

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Hardwaterman Said:
Fritz I have read a good deal on the Hage Family

given the 3rd grade level of your reading ability and lack of understanding of basic English ron, that really doesn't mean much.

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Hardwaterman Said:

There needs to be a push to look into his dealings with the Chinnese and the nepotism as well. It will not happen though when Bundy is the catalyst to promote that type of action.

ron you do know Issa already has started this right? Even despite your expert opinion.

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Hardwaterman Said:
cynical, are you like gabe and have a reading comprehension problem as well?

If you are as dense as Gabe

Is, was, past tense, present tense........................... all so confusing eh ron.

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Plainsman Said: 
Sickofthesmoke I understand your last post.  I would be frustrated in your position also.  I can see supporting landowners like yourself.  Please don't take my frustration with Fritz and gst supporting a criminal as not supporting farmers in your position.  Evidently your one of a few that are actually independent people.  My hats off to you. 

Ah, page 3 of the liberal handbook, division.

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cynical Said:

Hardwaterman Said:
cynical, are you like gabe and have a reading comprehension problem as well? I stated clearly that they feel that Congress needs to reign in the over reach by them, but unlike you, they realize that this is where the fix has to come or from the courts.

It changes nothing in regards to Bundy and his poor choices that created the mess he put himself in.

So you want to pee in their oatmeal and defend and champion Bundy go right ahead, because it is not going to garner any support to put restraint and controls back in place on the BLM or other Gov. agencies that are doing the bidding of the current administration.

If you are as dense as Gabe and cannot see this and see then rant away all you want. None of what they have possibly done wrong makes what Bundy and the armed idiots are attempting right!!

As I said to Fritz put the right face forward to get the public support for change, stop parading Bundy and the armed supporters as the face of the change you desire. It fall flat even with people that are more inclined to have supporting views!!!

The issue you have listed is worth exposing, sharing and seeking correct answers to. So are the proposed rule changes the EPA is seeking regarding waterways. All of that are worth exposing to the light of day and people both ag and non ag related can and would and will support the rights of landowners. BUT KEEP USING BUNDY AND IT WILL BE YOUR OATMEAL THAT GETS DOUSED!!!!!

Ok,  great hardwaterman.  These issues have been known by people paying attention for years and nothing has been done to fix them.  Exactly what do you propose doing?  Write another letter?  I think Cliven was smart.  He knew the people in power would do nothing so why not take his stance.  Really what other option did he have?  Meet with his congressional delegates from NV and beg for help?  Some of them want to bury ranching.  Yeah,  legally he may have done a poor job articulating his position and could have been more tactful but what do you expect from a rancher/farmer?  He needs legal help and it is sad that some powerful groups didn't step in years ago to help.  Your buddies sit back and mock the guy when if they were in his position they would whine like a little girl about it.  Probably wouldnt be men enough to make a stand.  They would just bend over and take it.  But hey,  at least they wouldn't be defying the government.  Government ain't always right.  Our history is full of men with guts who stood up to wrong doing.  I say Cliven has guts.  What say you?

I'll make an analogy,  lets say somehow congress passes a bill or Obama goes executive order to ban hunting on BLM land.  What you gonna do about it?  Shrug your shoulders and say oh well and go on your merry way?

But yet ron reads up on it abit ands suddenly is an expert. Reminiscent of the "Ranching 101" thread.

 cynical don;t expect much for answers.

I really wonder what the Founding Fathers would think of a few of these comments.

plaisnman I can understand, as a life long govt emnployee he was likely broke ot the yoke long ago.

btr, progressive liberal ideals explain much.

ron is a self proclaimed conservative, yet sees to wish to ignore how this nation was formed and the responsibilities to stand up to govt the creators expected to control govt and keep alive what they had given us.

Really if you stop and think about it, it is shameful.

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gst
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Joined: 3/12/09
Hardwaterman Said:
thanks for at least being honest that you think he was smart! What is going to have left when this is all done. Judgements that are legally applied against his cattle and property that will be executed and rightfully so? What a dumbass he was.

The reality is that Hage Family and others are the people that need to be out front and being shown. Instead you want an idiot to be your face! My goodness listen to him ramble the more he talks the more people realize he is clueless!

Public concern and support will and has changed things, will again. But to do that you cannot alienate people that you need support from!! you certainly do not need people like Gabe even though in your minds he is carrying the fight. The people on the edges or those who have a mild interest hear and see the crap he spews like Bundy and they forget about the underlying issues that really are important.

I really got that shown to me last night when the group pulled up and read his continued BS claims and trying to mix and cloud the issues. The Feds moving in did bring this to light, but now the story of what has really happened has been told. Everyone that championed him now has lost the interest and respect that is needed to keep a concern alive.

Truth and fairness are mutually required to change things. not deception and false hoods! Every farm and ranch organization should have been heralding the victory of the Hage family but outside of a few people in this state I doubt they even knew about it. WHY? Everyone knows about the idiot Bundy, very few know about the background though nor about the things you posted about or even the EPA rules. Your good at demonizing at a local level but are clueless to the rest. Someone in FL or Maine not connected do not care, when they see the events around Bundy. but will care and be concerned when people like the Hage family get presented. Outside of the local area there was Little to no coverage of their win. It should been in our papers, on our news and that is because your groups do not get that the ordinary people do not want to see hard working families get the shaft. Losers in court and free loaders do not generate that kind of good will.

When Hage family won, did the Stockmen's Assn. in ND hold a news conference to discuss the victory and start to educate the people on the issues? Did FU or FB for that matter? No they sent out the news letter or email to the people in the Org thinking they have been proactive.  .

Believe it or not we are not the enemy but supporters, but that support will not come when Bundy and people like him are the face!!!+++

Change and how to fix it! Congress is the fix, Hoeven, Heitkamp  others who can attend to business and not grand stand over it. I saw Ron Paul and others from Wash shooting off their mouths, that does nothing! Educate communicate not denigrate and insinuate. Read my very first post on this subject here. To the point and accurate. Instead of working and building on it Gabe lies and trys to imply Reid was involved in Bundy chosing to not renew because of the China deal. He says otherwise but that is what he implied and it is not my opinion alone!  ++

Separate the issues make the case on the BLM, both past and current, show what needs to be done, where it should be fixed, ask for support in getting that done. I know I will be doing just that!

But stop the bull shit!!! Accept and acknowledge that Bundy screwed himself, accept the fact the courts where right in the findings and the Gov has the right to stop the trespass and then get on point on how to fix and avoid this in the future, ask for help in contacting and hearing from the voters. One letter means nothing three hundred is going to get attention if you get my drift.

I pointed out a while back that the interest in the media and social media started to drop was when the facts came out. The simple fact is that now the BLM is still free to continue uncheck and not being looked at because like Bundy people like you chose wrong and lost any advantage of public support outside of your click from occurring.

As a whole people do not hate ag produers but do not support people like Bundy nor would they support people that speak the rhetoric of Gabe and you it seems. Learn from this!!

There is a major fight coming yet from a lot of places inside this Adm from EPA rules to BLM and Forest Service etc..... They know if they keep you in your click without the support from others they can silence you. Do not take actions that drive support away. That is what happened and is continuing to happen in NV as long as Bundy is championed. Pull your head out and think about it~~~

See what others see, hear what others hear, and understand what they are thinking!!

I heard it loud and clear last night, not what I expected when the subject came up! You do not even have the support on this one from within the ranks of Ag and the reason is you are backing the face!!! Bundy and supporters of him have done more to set you back than anyone else!!! Think about that~! If you do not have legal standing on claims don't support them just because!!! That is the problem there is never any admission that someone from your ranks can or could do or be wrong. Not going to win with that attitude.

You get outside your comfort circle and listen!! Bundy is poison or cancer that until cut away will continue to rot away. Lose the poor me attitude, and superior attitude as well make people feel that they have an interest in seeing all users of public lands get a fair shake. From the rancher to the hiker from native species to those introduced by man. Make that effort to restore that collective feeling of unity. Sportsmen would join not wanting the BLM to stop their access, others who are not hunters but have a vision of the cowboy want that to remain. Others as well are getting tired or all the red tape and rule changes. These are all allies! The issue is the rule makers and they come out of Washingon so fix it there!!

A mighty fine example of "bloviating" ron.

Could you please actually prove by quoting exactly where I have "lied"?

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gst
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Joined: 3/12/09

boy, take a day off to buy a couple bulls and the hens really get to clucking.

ron, your accusations of someone being a liar are only credible if you can prove where they lied beyond your "opinion".

No matter how highly you may regard it, it is not judge and jury.

And besides ron, if you claim someone is lying and can not prove it so when asked, your claim is ....................... well a lie.

ron "is" lying.

ron "was" lying.

present tense, past tense...................................3rd grade is hard man.


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