Really Jack?

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Why are libs and progressives so upset about government telling us what we can/can't do all of a sudden? It's OK for them to micromanage everything else - except killing the unborn?

The liberals and progressives think it's OK for them to manage everything else. Where's the concern or empathy for the little kid getting whacked? I'm just lost on how intolerant libs/progs are when it comes to the gov't limiting something they cherish.

Ugh... cherishing the right to suck fetuses out of scared young women. Creepy.

Oh, and for the record I don't have an opinion - honestly I don't except for my own personal opinion which doesn't factor into this debate. I'm just fascinated (and more than a little creeped out) by the hornet's nest reaction to this.


 

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I know a couple of women.

multi-species-angler Said:
 just a quick show of hands here, how many of us know anyone who has had an abortion?  I'm just curious how severe this rampant epidemic of abortions really is here in ND.



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multi-species-angler Said:
 just a quick show of hands here, how many of us know anyone who has had an abortion?  I'm just curious how severe this rampant epidemic of abortions really is here in ND.

Every adult knows an adult who had an abortion. You just don't know who because it's not something anybody wants anyone else to know.

Why is that? Why are people so ashamed if there's nothing wrong or unseemly about an abortion? It's no different than getting a mole removed, right? So why do people go to such lengths to hide abortions? Is it because deep down inside people really know it's a nasty deal for the fetus? I think so.

Your thoughts?

 

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multi-species-angler Said:
 a beating heart does not supply an organism with conscious thought, emotion, pain or self awareness. By the new laws an unconscious brain dead severely deformed fetus that may even pose risk the the health or the life of the mother has to be carried full term and nurtured by the parents and tax payers even though its a brain dead piece of meat so long as it has a beating heart.

Maybe chop the child up into pieces and sell it as bait?
It would grow the economy, and offset the "tax burden" you piss and moan about.

Spent a few trips up to San Haven back in the 70's and early 80's, even the most "injured" persons had their own unique personality which would always show a true form of Love. They were never judgmental, just accepting of you and of themselves as they are. 

I think several of the people posting  here should be required to spend time "studying" these whom you would rather Sacrifice before they even have gasped their first breath. It would seem that "we" are the the afflicted ones.

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I have a question for anybody who thinks they can give me an intelligent and honest answer. When do you think life exists? Isn't life scientifically measured as the ability to replicate cells? Once you see a cluster of cells multiplying under a microscope, what do you call it? Is it life?



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 I am so happy he signed all off these bills.  Abortion is an abomination....Same sex marriage is an abomination...its time for us to start standing up and quit allowing these things to poison our world.

Its time for people to start caring about others and stop all this selfishness.  Our selfishness is so out of control in this country that if we have to wait for anything or we can't have anything we cry like little babies about it.  Listen, there are so many people hurting in this world that would love to have the problems most of us have....heck they would be happy to have anything.  It is time for us to put our own selfish pride aside and think of others more then ourselves.  We are called to be servants......so who are we serving?  Ourselves, or are we treating others as more then ourselves?

I saw that protester on the news the other day saying "we need to stop the war against women".  What war is she talking about?  In war there are casualties and I can't remember the last time a woman was killed because she had an abortion.  The only casualties are these innocent blessings from God that are killed selfishly everyday.  We need to stop the war on babies!!!!!!

 

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DirtyMike Said:
It's not an individual and it's not murder.  Once I see pregnant women who have either smoked or drank while pregnant get strung up on attempted murder charges (assuming they gave birth to something with a heartbeat), I'll start agreeing with you. 

. like i stated before, our opinions dont matter. im not gonna tell someone they have to have a kid or not. we can beat a dead horse but guess what its still gonna be dead in the end.

and no i dont know anyone who has had one.

cant drink all day unless you start in the morning.
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GET SOME!!!!!

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 i will still vote for a republican. the problem with this and almost all legislation that is passed is it is not specific to 1 issue. this will affect more then just if an abortion is able to be performed.  

2Bhunting Said:
This is another way to chase young people with a mind out of North Dakota.  Those dipshit morons in the legislature need to be removed but instead you have morons who keep voting them in.  My fiance and I are probably going to need to use some type of invetro therapy in order to have a child one day, and that is just one of the things outlawed in these bills.  They're going after stem cells too - what happens when you get cancer one day and need a new type of therapy to survive?  Better fork over the gas money to drive to Rochester or another hospital out of state.  Who has the right to tell a person what to do with their body?  If they need an abortion for one reason or another, who am I to tell them they can or cannot?  Hypocritical assholes - each one of them.  Let's call each other conservatives because we believe government shouldn't be involved but then we vote to involve government into a woman's body.  I will never vote for another republican in my life after today - will not happen.  Let's waste our money on another lawsuit on something that has been settled for 40 years rather than build  bridges/roads/infrastructure in the state. Dumb.

thats funny i don't remember there being a vote on this issue in the state. we don't get to vote until 2014 on this. 

Riggen&Jiggen Said:
I think it is great that North Dakota for once takes a stand and does what the majority of it's people believe in (yes thats right if you believe in abortion and live in ND you are the minority).  Now we just have to pass gun rights laws, illegal alien deportation laws, stricter welfare/food stamp laws and lower taxes (especially property tax).  Then all ND citizens can all at once raise there middle finger at D.C. and all corrupt liberal states.  Tell them they can all kiss are behinds. 

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Pickerel Tamer Said:
I have a question for anybody who thinks they can give me an intelligent and honest answer. When do you think life exists? Isn't life scientifically measured as the ability to replicate cells? Once you see a cluster of cells multiplying under a microscope, what do you call it? Is it life?

The moment the sperm joins with the egg, a completely unique DNA is formed which has everything needed to grow into a Human Being with proper nourishment. 

Life is present from that moment on.

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mowerman said:
You should all be glad that your parents and grandparents were "Pro-Life"

My folks are / were not "prolife", they were pro choice, they chose to have 2 children.


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porfiado Said:
mowerman said:
You should all be glad that your parents and grandparents were "Pro-Life"

My folks are / were not "prolife", they were pro choice, they chose to have 2 children.


You lucked out that God sent you!

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whitetailhunter Said:
 I am so happy he signed all off these bills.  Abortion is an abomination....Same sex marriage is an abomination...its time for us to start standing up and quit allowing these things to poison our world.

Its time for people to start caring about others and stop all this selfishness.  

Um what? So they arent even people now? 

I dont go around guessing cup sizes either I just know a nice rack when I see one.

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Wags86 Said:
What are the details to this? What if the women has serious complications and can/will die? Im just wondering tis all - not debating anything

If a women has complications and could die an abortion can be done at that time.http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/03/26/17474411-north-dakota-governo...

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2Bhunting Said:
So now you are just going to vote Democrat?

Looks a lot better after today.  And no I won't apologize for that.  I guess I'll just cancel out your vote next time if you are going to vote for those same backward legislators and our dumbass governor again.

No, it sure as hell doesn't look a lot better. Do gun rights or taxes mean nothing to you?

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whitetailhunter Said:
 I am so happy he signed all off these bills.  Abortion is an abomination....Same sex marriage is an abomination...its time for us to start standing up and quit allowing these things to poison our world.

Its time for people to start caring about others and stop all this selfishness.  Our selfishness is so out of control in this country that if we have to wait for anything or we can't have anything we cry like little babies about it.  Listen, there are so many people hurting in this world that would love to have the problems most of us have....heck they would be happy to have anything.  It is time for us to put our own selfish pride aside and think of others more then ourselves.  We are called to be servants......so who are we serving?  Ourselves, or are we treating others as more then ourselves?

I saw that protester on the news the other day saying "we need to stop the war against women".  What war is she talking about?  In war there are casualties and I can't remember the last time a woman was killed because she had an abortion.  The only casualties are these innocent blessings from God that are killed selfishly everyday.  We need to stop the war on babies!!!!!!

+1000000

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guywhofishes Said:
There are elements to this debate that never get mentioned but have great consequences - sometimes lifelong consequences for the scared kids that get one.

A significant number of women who had abortions when they were pretty much children themselves now regret it as the worst thing they ever did. I know two women in my life that carry the regret of having one and wish they could undo it.

But then again - it's just a cluster of cells... not really a baby. Those women are haunted for silly reasons. They should think of it as having had a pesky mole removed, right?

Abortions are a nasty deal and I understand the horror/drama behind being motivated to have one. I agree with the others - we should fight hard to remove the need to ever had to decide by looking at as many ways as possible to prevent unwanted pregnancies. Nobody wins in an abortion.

Thankyou.  My older brother is adopted, sure glad his mom didn't make the call to have him sucked out and thrown in the garbage. 

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whitetailhunter Said:
 I am so happy he signed all off these bills.  Abortion is an abomination....Same sex marriage is an abomination...its time for us to start standing up and quit allowing these things to poison our world.

Its time for people to start caring about others and stop all this selfishness.  Our selfishness is so out of control in this country that if we have to wait for anything or we can't have anything we cry like little babies about it.  Listen, there are so many people hurting in this world that would love to have the problems most of us have....heck they would be happy to have anything.  It is time for us to put our own selfish pride aside and think of others more then ourselves.  We are called to be servants......so who are we serving?  Ourselves, or are we treating others as more then ourselves?

I saw that protester on the news the other day saying "we need to stop the war against women".  What war is she talking about?  In war there are casualties and I can't remember the last time a woman was killed because she had an abortion.  The only casualties are these innocent blessings from God that are killed selfishly everyday.  We need to stop the war on babies!!!!!!

kind of a hypocrit with those 2 statements isnt it? just cuz you believe gay marriges are bad, means its crazy. sounds selfish to me. just saying

cant drink all day unless you start in the morning.
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DirtyMike Said:
It's not an individual and it's not murder.  Once I see pregnant women who have either smoked or drank while pregnant get strung up on attempted murder charges (assuming they gave birth to something with a heartbeat), I'll start agreeing with you. 

Ok, Let's take another angle to this.  Lets say that you and your wife have tried to have a baby for a couple years.  You finally succeeded and everything is going smoothly.  You get an ultrasound an the baby is doing great.  You find out the sex of the baby and set up your baby room to greet this bundle of joy when it comes home from the hospital.  Everything is all set, the baby room, the changing table, the formula, the diapers, and the thoughts of love that you will have for your own child.  The baby is due in one week.  Your wife decides to go to the grocery store to get some things for supper.  Some maniac comes up to her in the parking lot and boots her in the stomache like he's kicking a 50 yard field goal.  Your baby dies!  Your wife lives.  Your whole world is shattered.  Is that baby not an individual?  Is that not murder? The baby that you and your wife had anticipated is dead and the guy that kicked your wife in the stomache gets off with a Class B misdemeanor and walks free.  Now correct me if I am wrong.  In your opinion this is not yet an individual.  Therefore you were never a father.  Therefore you shouldn't be upset about anything except someone kicking your wife in the stomache. Because there was no murder committed according to you. 
  That my friend is what I mean about being a good human being.  So if you think abortion is OK and its a woman's right to do as she pleases with her body, then "YES" I am saying that you are a bad person.

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 Jack is no George Sinner!   George, even while being a devout Catgolic had a Brian that he used  and refused to sign similar Sitte inspired stff back in the 80's!
theissueshould NOTbeabortion, but UNPLANNED PREGNANCIES, which should not be a political thing, but a preventable public health problem left to the professionals in this realm of endeavor!

Every  doctor I know are against abortion and hate it!  No exceptions!!  But are againstit being all FOR things that actually work!    If the republicans ever get rid if the religious right forcing their stuff on us all, maybe, just maybe, something positive might be done!
Remember on April 15 that 2 out of every 3 babies born in ND is paid for by us taxpayers, and that this is the single biggest contributor to our burgeoning welfare rolls!  The start of thevicious generational welfare families we all bitch about!
Notive I,m pro abortion, just anti nonsense and anti stupid bills that cost us dearly and will solveNOTHING!
Also, ND has just turned every OB/GYNE into a felon, potential felom or has been felon!  Maybe Sitte and company will deliver all those welfare paid babies! LOL

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 Jack is no George Sinner!   George, being a devout Catgolic had abrainthatheused and refused to sign similar Sitte inspired stff back in the 80's!
theissueshould NOTbeabortion, but UNPLANNED PREGNANCIES, which should not be a political thing, but a preventable public health problem left to the professionals in this realm of endeavor!

Every  doctor I know are against abortion and hate it!  No exceptions!!  But are againstit being FOR things that actually work!    If the republicans ever get rid if the religious right forcing their stuff on us all, maybe, just maybe, something positive might be done!
Remember on April 15 that 2 out of every 3 babies born in ND is paid for by us taxpayers, and that this is the single biggest contributor to our burgeoning welfare rolls!  The start of thevicious generational welfare families we all bitch about!
Notive I,m pro abortion, just anti nonsense and anti stupid bills that cost us dearly and will solveNOTHING!
Also, ND has just turned every OB/GYNE into a felon, potential felom or has been felon!  Maybe Sitte and company will deliver all those welfare paid babies! LOL

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Westerneagle Said:

The moment the sperm joins with the egg, a completely unique DNA is formed which has everything needed to grow into a Human Being with proper nourishment. 

Life is present from that moment on.

Regardless of said DNA being mutated or otherwise changed, disallowing the fetus from going to term or unable to live a healthy life once born.  Got it. 


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 Tim, the issue should being a beating heart?  OK, let's stop this atrocity then, by using our brains and promoting something that works!

The stupid argument of aiming antiabortion is EXACTLY the type of stupid argument regarding stopping gun violence by outlawing guns!  
I,ve always been impressed that we Americans rarely even give lip service suggesting or supporting prevention, only knee jerk feel good more stupid laws that invariably do far more harm than good!
Want to do something Tim??   open your check book and donate to some Family planning Organization.  Do something positive for once!

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 Tim, the issue should being a beating heart?  OK, let's stop this atrocity then, by using our brains and promoting something that works!

The stupid argument of aiming antiabortion is EXACTLY the type of stupid argument regarding stopping gun violence by outlawing guns!  
I,ve always been impressed that we Americans rarely even give lip service suggesting or supporting prevention, only knee jerk feel good more stupid laws that invariably do far more harm than good!
Want to do something Tim??   open your check book and donate to some Family planning Organization.  Do something positive for once!

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 How about we PREVENT sperm and PREVENT eggs and if that fails, we PREVENT them from getting together!
Ah well, too logical for conservatives.......BIG difference between FISCAL conservatism and PSEUDOMORAL conservatism, the stuff the founding fathers tried to prevent!  

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 DUH!!!!!!!!!!!! of course every dr u kno is against it, MDs (ALL of them ) quit caring about PEOPLE years ago, so y would they care about unborn people that can potentially put their cronies in prison????

all they care about now is treating ur symptoms. ive even heard a dr bragging how they 'teach us in school' to not care for the person, as an individual............at all.....


bobkat Said:

 Jack is no George Sinner!   George, being a devout Catgolic had abrainthatheused and refused to sign similar Sitte inspired stff back in the 80's!
theissueshould NOTbeabortion, but UNPLANNED PREGNANCIES, which should not be a political thing, but a preventable public health problem left to the professionals in this realm of endeavor!

Every  doctor I know are against abortion and hate it!  No exceptions!!  But are againstit being FOR things that actually work!    If the republicans ever get rid if the religious right forcing their stuff on us all, maybe, just maybe, something positive might be done!
Remember on April 15 that 2 out of every 3 babies born in ND is paid for by us taxpayers, and that this is the single biggest contributor to our burgeoning welfare rolls!  The start of thevicious generational welfare families we all bitch about!
Notive I,m pro abortion, just anti nonsense and anti stupid bills that cost us dearly and will solveNOTHING!
Also, ND has just turned every OB/GYNE into a felon, potential felom or has been felon!  Maybe Sitte and company will deliver all those welfare paid babies! LOL

 "I'll show you where the bear sh**s in the woods!" ~ Dad
(I still have no clue what it means.)

"You're not really even my son." ~ Dad
(I still don't believe him.)

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DirtyMike Said:

Westerneagle Said:

The moment the sperm joins with the egg, a completely unique DNA is formed which has everything needed to grow into a Human Being with proper nourishment. 

Life is present from that moment on.

Regardless of said DNA being mutated or otherwise changed, disallowing the fetus from going to term or unable to live a healthy life once born.  Got it. 

 Now you are the judge, jury and ???  
Why bother to pay for the killing? Just do it yourself. Regardless it won't matter for now. On the Last Day it will be a huge deal. Be careful of what you "Choose". Yes, you will reap what you sow or in this case unsow!

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whitetailhunter Said:
 I am so happy he signed all off these bills.  Abortion is an abomination....Same sex marriage is an abomination...its time for us to start standing up and quit allowing these things to poison our world.

Its time for people to start caring about others and stop all this selfishness.  Our selfishness is so out of control in this country that if we have to wait for anything or we can't have anything we cry like little babies about it.  Listen, there are so many people hurting in this world that would love to have the problems most of us have....heck they would be happy to have anything.  It is time for us to put our own selfish pride aside and think of others more then ourselves.  We are called to be servants......so who are we serving?  Ourselves, or are we treating others as more then ourselves?

I saw that protester on the news the other day saying "we need to stop the war against women".  What war is she talking about?  In war there are casualties and I can't remember the last time a woman was killed because she had an abortion.  The only casualties are these innocent blessings from God that are killed selfishly everyday.  We need to stop the war on babies!!!!!!

Since you brought it up please help me understand who you feel is harmed by same sex marriage.  You advocate stopping selfishness.  Wouldn't extending the right of marriage and all of the government-sanctioned things that go along with marriage be an UNselfish thing to do?


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Bill Gates is onto something: 

(CNN) -- Bill Gates is putting out a call to inventors, but he's not looking for software, or the latest high-tech gadget. This time he's in search of a better condom.

On its Grand Challenges website, the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation is offering a $100,000 startup grant to the person who designs "the next generation condom that significantly preserves or enhances pleasure" and promotes "regular use."

It may sound like the setup for a joke, but the goal is deadly serious. While researchers call condoms one of the best ways to stop the spread of HIV, the virus that causes AIDS, getting people to use them is another story.

The foundation wants to see something that will lead men and women outside of a committed relationship to stop and think twice before having unprotected sex. The startup grant could lead to $1 million in further funding.

"Male condoms are cheap, easy to manufacture, easy to distribute, and available globally, including in resource-poor settings, through numerous well-developed distribution channels," the foundation says. Nevertheless, many people are reluctant to use them because they complain that prophylactics interfere with pleasure and intimacy. This creates "a trade-off that many men find unacceptable," the foundation notes.

I know when my son needs some advise that if in fact fooling around is going to happen that never ever ever have sex without a condom. Once a guy goes in without one most of us know darn well that we never wanted to use one again!

I dont go around guessing cup sizes either I just know a nice rack when I see one.

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bobkat Said:
 How about we PREVENT sperm and PREVENT eggs and if that fails, we PREVENT them from getting together!
Ah well, too logical for conservatives.......BIG difference between FISCAL conservatism and PSEUDOMORAL conservatism, the stuff the founding fathers tried to prevent!  

Aren't there condoms in every Walmart? Isn't there birth control in every drug store?

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skeeterguy Said:

DirtyMike Said:
It's not an individual and it's not murder.  Once I see pregnant women who have either smoked or drank while pregnant get strung up on attempted murder charges (assuming they gave birth to something with a heartbeat), I'll start agreeing with you. 

Ok, Let's take another angle to this.  Lets say that you and your wife have tried to have a baby for a couple years.  You finally succeeded and everything is going smoothly.  You get an ultrasound an the baby is doing great.  You find out the sex of the baby and set up your baby room to greet this bundle of joy when it comes home from the hospital.  Everything is all set, the baby room, the changing table, the formula, the diapers, and the thoughts of love that you will have for your own child.  The baby is due in one week.  Your wife decides to go to the grocery store to get some things for supper.  Some maniac comes up to her in the parking lot and boots her in the stomache like he's kicking a 50 yard field goal.  Your baby dies!  Your wife lives.  Your whole world is shattered.  Is that baby not an individual?  Is that not murder? The baby that you and your wife had anticipated is dead and the guy that kicked your wife in the stomache gets off with a Class B misdemeanor and walks free.  Now correct me if I am wrong.  In your opinion this is not yet an individual.  Therefore you were never a father.  Therefore you shouldn't be upset about anything except someone kicking your wife in the stomache. Because there was no murder committed according to you. 
  That my friend is what I mean about being a good human being.  So if you think abortion is OK and its a woman's right to do as she pleases with her body, then "YES" I am saying that you are a bad person.

Very well thought out and written, Skeeter.  I see your point, but I don't agree 100%.  First, the fetus you are talking about has reached term and could live if parted from the mother.  Here's where I can get on board with you in that, there needs to be a set date of when an abortion can happen.  Some people will go off of a timeline of "when life begins."  A baby at 37 weeks is viable, therefor, and individual.

 
Second, since said baby is carried to term, the maniac could be charged for two counts of attempted murder, or two counts of 1st degree murder, or one of each depending on the outcome.  A woman that is 9 months pregnant gets kicked in the abdomen (that's where the uterus is located, not the stomach), there's a good chance of arterial bleeding, most likely causing both individuals to expire. 

Third, a class B misdemeanor for Assault? I know guys that have been charged with felonies for knocking out a the smart ass tough guy outside the bar. 

Lastly, like I said, I can see where you are coming from.  but linking abortion to such a terrible crime that you've described, sounds like you're reaching. 


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 Start making the men or i should say boys pay for the child they are about to conceive to prove their manhood and maybe the women would not have to chose.

Db

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Westerneagle, when did you find time from holding your sign that says "the world is ending" to reply to me?


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bobkat Said:
 How about we PREVENT sperm and PREVENT eggs and if that fails, we PREVENT them from getting together!
Ah well, too logical for conservatives.......BIG difference between FISCAL conservatism and PSEUDOMORAL conservatism, the stuff the founding fathers tried to prevent!  

?

Really, you are placing blame for unwanted pregnancies on being conservative? So only liberals know to use birth control, Shaniqua with 10 kids from 10 different men, voting for obama, is who we should get our morals and birth control advice from? Well maybe you are right, at least she didnt abort them.

Pretty pathetic attempt at trying to hold the liberals standards as thought they are at a higher level.

Neat

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I have 1 brother who is adopted and two cousins that are adopted.  Those are the top 3 reason i can come up with to not support abortion.  I think it is very selfish to abort a baby when there are good people waiting in line to adopt. 

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Db Said:
 Start making the men or i should say boys pay for the child they are about to conceive to prove their manhood and maybe the women would not have to chose.

I guess it's hard to take from people what they dont have, or refuse to get.

I dont go around guessing cup sizes either I just know a nice rack when I see one.

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Cowbell Said:

bobkat Said:
 How about we PREVENT sperm and PREVENT eggs and if that fails, we PREVENT them from getting together!
Ah well, too logical for conservatives.......BIG difference between FISCAL conservatism and PSEUDOMORAL conservatism, the stuff the founding fathers tried to prevent!  

Aren't there condoms in every Walmart? Isn't there birth control in every drug store?

Bobkat is an old fuddy duddy. 

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 How come everyone is for less government control and personal responsibility until it comes to an issue like this?  

I have issues with these bills in general as I always prided myself on North Dakota values being a personal code, not one that is legislated onto others.  I have children, and I am personally pro-life.  That's the key word. Personally....It is not my place to demand I have a say over what a woman in completely different circumstances then my own does with her body.

Here are my issues with the bills aside from my overall view that government shouldn't make this choice on a state or a federal level.

1.) Wife and I are currently pregnant.  One of the things we have elected to do that we have done with previous pregnancies is what is called a quad screen.  This tests blood levels looking for markers of genetic defects.  Now not conclusive these are good markers to indicate if further testing is needed if some of the levels are abnormal.  

One of these genetic defects is Trisomy 18 (Downs is Trisomy 21), these pregnancies rarely make it to full term on there own and are usually terminated.  

Termination is no longer an option under these new laws.  These children rarely make it to there teens, and if they do they have a host of medical problems.  So essentially what all the people who say "but the child will bring love to your house, all children are special, it has a right to life".

 I personally work a job that has excellent insurance and my wife and I make a great income.  

So why would we do the quad screen if I am personally pro-life?  Because in this case I see bringing into this world a child who's one a known life clock and I couldn't ask my wife to do that.  Losing a child after 10 years (sadly these kids usually die of cancer, just for an extra kick in the pants) would destroy my wife and most likely destroy me.  I can't do that to my other children.

If we didn't come from a wage-class that could technically afford this who do you think pays for all the child's medical bills?  Sure isn't that church that puts on the fundraiser once a year...

2.) The interpretation of the law is bad.  Since they didn't say how the heartbeat had to be detected.  It can be done by vaginal ultrasound around 6 weeks.  At least Arkansas was smart enough to say it had to be down by doplar or pelvic ultrasound.  For anyone who has ever tried to have a kid you can be trying and not find out till after 6 weeks.  How about someone who is surprised by a pregnancy?

Now anybody who has dealt with a miscarriage will understand this.  What is the medical term for a miscarriage?  Spontaneous Abortion.  So is a doctor liable now for a miscarriage?  They don't define the act of "performing" an abortion, is this as simple as prescription drugs that may cause as a side effect?

Anyways...The libertarian me will go ahead and sign off and go enjoy my family for Easter.  I will also say a little prayer the quad screen results are ok next week as others may not get this choice.

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Enslow Said:

Cowbell Said:

bobkat Said:
 How about we PREVENT sperm and PREVENT eggs and if that fails, we PREVENT them from getting together!
Ah well, too logical for conservatives.......BIG difference between FISCAL conservatism and PSEUDOMORAL conservatism, the stuff the founding fathers tried to prevent!  

Aren't there condoms in every Walmart? Isn't there birth control in every drug store?

Bobkat is an old fuddy duddy. 

LOL !

 

 "I get what you're saying:  Like a sausage replica featuring a Polander holding a sacred illumination device." 

 

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Solidjack Said:
 How come everyone is for less government control and personal responsibility until it comes to an issue like this?  

I have issues with these bills in general as I always prided myself on North Dakota values being a personal code, not one that is legislated onto others.  I have children, and I am personally pro-life.  That's the key word. Personally....It is not my place to demand I have a say over what a woman in completely different circumstances then my own does with her body.

Here are my issues with the bills aside from my overall view that government shouldn't make this choice on a state or a federal level.

1.) Wife and I are currently pregnant.  One of the things we have elected to do that we have done with previous pregnancies is what is called a quad screen.  This tests blood levels looking for markers of genetic defects.  Now not conclusive these are good markers to indicate if further testing is needed if some of the levels are abnormal.  

One of these genetic defects is Trisomy 18 (Downs is Trisomy 21), these pregnancies rarely make it to full term on there own and are usually terminated.  

Termination is no longer an option under these new laws.  These children rarely make it to there teens, and if they do they have a host of medical problems.  So essentially what all the people who say "but the child will bring love to your house, all children are special, it has a right to life".

 I personally work a job that has excellent insurance and my wife and I make a great income.  

So why would we do the quad screen if I am personally pro-life?  Because in this case I see bringing into this world a child who's one a known life clock and I couldn't ask my wife to do that.  Losing a child after 10 years (sadly these kids usually die of cancer, just for an extra kick in the pants) would destroy my wife and most likely destroy me.  I can't do that to my other children.

If we didn't come from a wage-class that could technically afford this who do you think pays for all the child's medical bills?  Sure isn't that church that puts on the fundraiser once a year...

2.) The interpretation of the law is bad.  Since they didn't say how the heartbeat had to be detected.  It can be done by vaginal ultrasound around 6 weeks.  At least Arkansas was smart enough to say it had to be down by doplar or pelvic ultrasound.  For anyone who has ever tried to have a kid you can be trying and not find out till after 6 weeks.  How about someone who is surprised by a pregnancy?

Now anybody who has dealt with a miscarriage will understand this.  What is the medical term for a miscarriage?  Spontaneous Abortion.  So is a doctor liable now for a miscarriage?  They don't define the act of "performing" an abortion, is this as simple as prescription drugs that may cause as a side effect?

Anyways...The libertarian me will go ahead and sign off and go enjoy my family for Easter.  I will also say a little prayer the quad screen results are ok next week as others may not get this choice.

Congrats and well wishes!

I dont go around guessing cup sizes either I just know a nice rack when I see one.

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DirtyMike Said:
Westerneagle, when did you find time from holding your sign that says "the world is ending" to reply to me?

Didn't say the world was ending, simply that there will be a Last Day.

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Well no shit. 

Westerneagle Said:

DirtyMike Said:
Westerneagle, when did you find time from holding your sign that says "the world is ending" to reply to me?

Didn't say the world was ending, simply that there will be a Last Day.


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So its not the individual's right to determine when or when they can be determined an individual?  Regardless of how a pregnancy happens there is going to be life(or at least the chance at life).  The circumstances of the pregnancy do not determine the value of that life in my opinion.  This is where we differ.  It may increase taxes or welfare costs to take care of these children because of deadbeat parents.  But I would gladly pay them vs having the blood or cells of that life on my hands.

Secondly, I call an abdomen a stomache.  Sorry.

Thirdly, I have been assaulted outside of a bar in Minot, in front of Police, and yes it is a class B misdemeanor.

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 i've asked this before.  but, i think it leads to some self reflection... i know it did with me anyway.  where do all of you 100% pro-lifers stand on the issue of embryos sitting in a lab somewhere?  essentially fertilized eggs that have multiplied a few times.  if you say you can't throw them in the garbage, then what is a guy to do with them?  to take that position, means you essentially take the position that there should never be fertilization treatment.  keep in mind there is no "life" per say with those embryos... they are a frozen clump of cells sitting in a petri dish or a test tube someplace.  and does it change your position just because that same clump of cells happens to be in a uterus?  at what point does it no longer become a clump of cells and becomes worthy of the same protection as a human life?  things worth pondering.

another one... how about the case of severe birth defects?  the type that would mean almost zero chance of making it to term or death within a very short time period if they did or the type that place the life of the mother in severe danger?

i don't support abortion.  but, it certainly isn't so black and white for me.  i think there needs to be exceptions in severe cases and i also wouldn't give the clump of cells sitting in an lab some place the same level of protection i would give a fetus in the womb at say 12 weeks once its spinal neuro system has began to develop.  

Born to hunt and fish... Forced to work!

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"Colorless green ideas sleep furiously"
...People who don’t understand sarcasm are awesome !?!
Jig-em-Up Guide Service | Grand Forks, ND | 701-739-9198 jig-em-up-guide-service.com

 

 

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DirtyMike Said:

skeeterguy Said:

DirtyMike Said:
It's not an individual and it's not murder.  Once I see pregnant women who have either smoked or drank while pregnant get strung up on attempted murder charges (assuming they gave birth to something with a heartbeat), I'll start agreeing with you. 

Ok, Let's take another angle to this.  Lets say that you and your wife have tried to have a baby for a couple years.  You finally succeeded and everything is going smoothly.  You get an ultrasound an the baby is doing great.  You find out the sex of the baby and set up your baby room to greet this bundle of joy when it comes home from the hospital.  Everything is all set, the baby room, the changing table, the formula, the diapers, and the thoughts of love that you will have for your own child.  The baby is due in one week.  Your wife decides to go to the grocery store to get some things for supper.  Some maniac comes up to her in the parking lot and boots her in the stomache like he's kicking a 50 yard field goal.  Your baby dies!  Your wife lives.  Your whole world is shattered.  Is that baby not an individual?  Is that not murder? The baby that you and your wife had anticipated is dead and the guy that kicked your wife in the stomache gets off with a Class B misdemeanor and walks free.  Now correct me if I am wrong.  In your opinion this is not yet an individual.  Therefore you were never a father.  Therefore you shouldn't be upset about anything except someone kicking your wife in the stomache. Because there was no murder committed according to you. 
  That my friend is what I mean about being a good human being.  So if you think abortion is OK and its a woman's right to do as she pleases with her body, then "YES" I am saying that you are a bad person.

Very well thought out and written, Skeeter.  I see your point, but I don't agree 100%.  First, the fetus you are talking about has reached term and could live if parted from the mother.  Here's where I can get on board with you in that, there needs to be a set date of when an abortion can happen.  Some people will go off of a timeline of "when life begins."  A baby at 37 weeks is viable, therefor, and individual.

 
Second, since said baby is carried to term, the maniac could be charged for two counts of attempted murder, or two counts of 1st degree murder, or one of each depending on the outcome.  A woman that is 9 months pregnant gets kicked in the abdomen (that's where the uterus is located, not the stomach), there's a good chance of arterial bleeding, most likely causing both individuals to expire. 

Third, a class B misdemeanor for Assault? I know guys that have been charged with felonies for knocking out a the smart ass tough guy outside the bar. 

Lastly, like I said, I can see where you are coming from.  but linking abortion to such a terrible crime that you've described, sounds like you're reaching. 

/26/2013 4:16 PM | Reply #92 | "Quote" | "Quick Reply" |
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So its not the individual's right to determine when or when they can be determined an individual? Regardless of how a pregnancy happens there is going to be life(or at least the chance at life). The circumstances of the pregnancy do not determine the value of that life in my opinion. This is where we differ. It may increase taxes or welfare costs to take care of these children because of deadbeat parents. But I would gladly pay them vs having the blood or cells of that life on my hands.

Secondly, I call an abdomen a stomache. Sorry.

Thirdly, I have been assaulted outside of a bar in Minot, in front of Police, and yes it is a class B misdemeanor.

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Sorry, it got cut off.

So its not the individual's right to determine when or when they can be determined an individual? Regardless of how a pregnancy happens there is going to be life(or at least the chance at life). The circumstances of the pregnancy do not determine the value of that life in my opinion. This is where we differ. It may increase taxes or welfare costs to take care of these children because of deadbeat parents. But I would gladly pay them vs having the blood or cells of that life on my hands.

Secondly, I call an abdomen a stomache. Sorry.

Thirdly, I have been assaulted outside of a bar in Minot, in front of Police, and yes it is a class B misdemeanor.

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The comments here are ridiculous, for the most part. "It" is a living child, albeit just a heartbeat to hear for now.

And the biggest gripe on here is how much it's going to cost? Gimme a break. If someone were to say any one of you was too much expense to be worth it, I bet you'd have thought differently. Not to mention that the promised appeals from the pro-choice (pro abortion) side state "our appeals are going to be too many and too expensive for the state to win".

What does that mean? I mean really? So, do I interpret that to mean that "we're right because it's too expensive to prove us wrong".

Shame on you guys. And Tim, on this, I'm with you.

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never thought a website based on the outdoors would have come to this

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 Anyone ever tried Rotel in tater tot hotdish??

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Another thing. After my wife and I had our second child, she was diagnosed with colon cancer, and shortly thereafter had to have a total hysterectomy. So, for us, no more biological children. We are now starting down the road of adoption and when looking at the MOUNTAINS of paperwork, months or possibly years of waiting, and not-inconsiderable expense, the thought of people aborting babies makes my heart ache. There are many people in my/our position, who would love and welcome a child, and there are others (you can't deny that sometimes this happens) don't want the inconvenience.

That is a shame.

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