Really Jack?

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Here's a documentary on abortion that is hosted by Dr. Martin Luther King's daughter.  It's long, but for those interested, here it is:

-Justin

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gonefshn Said:
The fact is this will never be resolved until there a constitutional amendment that defines it.  And unfortunately, there will never be agreement "when" a person becomes a person.  Until then, we'll continue to waste millions of dollars in legal fees and people on here will be assholes to other members who might disagree with their view be it pro, anti, or whatever.  

This whole debate in North Dakota is about "Moving the line".  There are very few true pro lifers who absolutely value the life of EVERY unborn child.  Any exception for pregnancies due to rape or incest is hypocrisy at it highest.  Nobody knows for sure if a potentially problem pregnancy that threatens the life of the Mother couldn't still result in a healthy Baby.  In that case, the rules suddenly change and it's alright to terminate.  If we have no right to play God, why would that be a consideration?

There is hypocrisy from the pro-abortion/pro-choice side too.  Probably not to the same extent though because it is easier for them to compromise.  They never started from an absolute so that's natural.

So, for the last 40 years or so, the "LINE" has been 24 weeks.  Up to the end of the second trimester.

One of the new Laws uses a heartbeat as a deadline which apparently could be as soon as 6 weeks after conception.

I'm almost dead center in the middle so this is interesting as heck to me.  I can't even get genuinely mad at either side. 

I don't even mind that much that it will cost some money.  After all, we could be wasting money buying milk for little poor kids or maybe funding more Head Start Programs.  The Legislature has already made it clear that those things are totally unreasonable. 

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phhhhhfffttttt.... that there is funny shtuff... gonfshn, the closet liberal and farmer hater.

Call me whatever you want.  I grew out of worrying about people calling me names or using labels to bully their point way back in grade school.  I know that in many areas I'm very conservative.  In others I'm open to other ideas and am not willing to do something just because that's the way it's been done for years.  Which as the dictionary defines as being a liberal.  I realize that according to a few here on FB that if you don't strictly follow the far right agenda lockstep and are willing to open your mind a bit to other views you're going to be called a closet liberal or whatever.  I'm totally fine with that. 

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 to be clear.... me was just fu8king with you.

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My wife's cousin is a neo-natologist.  He saves babies as early as 22 weeks.  It makes me sick that people think it's okay to "terminate" pregnancies that would result in living babies if they were delivered.  In the case of New Jersey, it's especially abominable that they allow termination all the way to "term".  And it's all done under the guise of "choice".  It truly shows how pathetic our society has become. 

At this point, I'm not going to get caught up in all the "exceptions".  Those are a small percentage of abortions.  The health of the mother/baby accounts for around 5-6% of abortions.  Rape/incest accounts for about 1%.  I'm talking about abortion as a means of birth control.  Yes, in about 93% or so of the cases of abortion it's done for a myriad of reasons that amount to nothing more than birth control.  It's atrocious.

-Justin

-Justin

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OK, now I really am ticked off.  Those SOB's still won't let us buy bottle rockets.  WTF?

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flycaster Said:
 And knock it off you pro-abortion people.  The laws make exceptions for some abortions.  You are lying when you say that all abortions will be illegal under these laws.  They all are legal up to six weeks.

just read what i am posting, not all ectopic pregnancy's are found prior to six weeks. just read it.

Red River Women's Clinic - Shelly Silkee
Let us please think rationally about what these Anti-Abortion bills really entail, please. Not all abortions are committed just because "this isn't wanted." North Dakota still has the highest incident of teen pregnancies per capita, and that was WITH legal abortions. So please don't be so silly. We do not have an abundance of abortions being performed - obviously. But what it does me...an is... Eptopic pregnancies will not be ended, meaning EXTREME health consequences and possibly death for the mother (and in most cases eptopic pregnancies do NOT yeild a living baby.) It means that when 2 people who love each other find out their fetus has genetic complications that mean their baby WON'T LIVE past a year will be burdened with heartbreak that is prolonged and severe. It means that a mother with severe health complications of her own will not be given precident over a fetus and could likely die (with no indication the baby lives, either. so BOTH could die?) What it means are little girls who are molested and raped will be FORCED to live with the unfortunate consequence of someone else's crime. If YOUR OWN MOTHER was forced with the decision to die or attempt an impossible delivery, would you not want YOUR OWN MOTHER to choose her life and remain in yours? Please, remove the blinders and remove the hate and disdain. These are your mothers, sisters, daughters, girlfriends, wives, best friends, neighbors, and co-workers. If YOU do not believe in abortions, by all means NOBODY will MAKE YOU GET ONE. But PLEASE do not turn a blind eye to the woman you may have condemned to a lifetime of hardship you cannot imagine, or to the woman whose death certificate you ought to be signing with your own name.

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Farnorth Said:
OK, now I really am ticked off.  Those SOB's still won't let us buy bottle rockets.  WTF?

hahahah....fireworks are bad mmmmkay

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right?  this baffles me... i can see an age restriction or something.  but, an all out ban... how is it we can own paintball guns, bb guns, bows, arrows, machetes, spears, blow sh7t up with tannerite, etc.... year round... but, not be able to shoot a couple bottle rockets off the back deck?  hell... we can still  have roman candles right?  and those whistling missile batteries?  and those big ass artillery shells?  but, no bottle rockets... what the flying fudgcicles! 

Farnorth Said:
OK, now I really am ticked off.  Those SOB's still won't let us buy bottle rockets.  WTF?

Born to hunt and fish... Forced to work!

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 99% of them aren't found until MUCH later than six weeks.


Chargers Said:

just read what i am posting, not all ectopic pregnancy's are found prior to six weeks. just read it.

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dakota1977 Said:
My wife's cousin is a neo-natologist.  He saves babies as early as 22 weeks.  It makes me sick that people think it's okay to "terminate" pregnancies that would result in living babies if they were delivered.  In the case of New Jersey, it's especially abominable that they allow termination all the way to "term".  And it's all done under the guise of "choice".  It truly shows how pathetic our society has become. 

At this point, I'm not going to get caught up in all the "exceptions".  Those are a small percentage of abortions.  The health of the mother/baby accounts for around 5-6% of abortions.  Rape/incest accounts for about 1%.  I'm talking about abortion as a means of birth control.  Yes, in about 93% or so of the cases of abortion it's done for a myriad of reasons that amount to nothing more than birth control.  It's atrocious.

-Justin

I truly and honestly believe that number is low.  They are only talking about reported rape/incest.  I have no way to back my feelings up but thats what  my intuition tells me.
I would be willing to bet that number is more like 7-10% if you could actually find the info to back it up which you probably cant because of HIPAA laws.  I just dont feel like digging for it right now.   Contrary to popular belief even now there is a lot of rape/incest crimes that dont get reported.

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flycaster Said:
 Honkers, which republicans are against those entitlements you stated?  I've heard many republicans want to reform those entitlements to cut down on how much they are costing us but I don't know of any that want to completely get rid of those entitlements.  Name some names and examples of where they say they want to completely get rid of those programs.

Flycaster  Do you rember the topic on here a month or so ago about the milk program? several FBO members didnt think we should be paying for the kids milk as well as are so called elected officials who pass these abortion laws and in the same breath cut the milk programs how is that pro life?  Just as bri-guy stated most of these kids that will be saved are not going to households that can support them.

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imho... support for the child after birth and the right to life before birth are entirely different topics and mixing them together just seems like an attempt to cloud the topic/issue.  the merits of both can and should be debated separately.  

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espringers Said:
imho... support for the child after birth and the right to life before birth are entirely different topics and mixing them together just seems like an attempt to cloud the topic/issue.  the merits of both can and should be debated separately.  

Yet, halfway around the World, China had concerns about affording the cost of a growing population (albeit in a Communist society) and they instituted their one child law and, consequently, have incredibly high rates of abortion.

We have huge concern about social costs and want to reduce abortions to essentially zero. 

There's some linkage there so entirely different might be a stretch.

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By the way... if you don't have the time to watch the entire video, or just don't care to, or whatever the reason... at least fast-forward to about the 55:45 mark and watch from there for about 10 to 15 minutes.

dakota1977 Said:
Here's a documentary on abortion that is hosted by Dr. Martin Luther King's daughter.  It's long, but for those interested, here it is:

-Justin

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At least they had the good sense to ban this crap.

-Justin

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-Justin

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-Justin

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-Justin

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feather_duster Said:

jaykay Said:
The jokes about nurseries in Heaven or Hell - jokes, are disgusting. If you don't believe in Heaven or Hell, then you BETTER be right. If I'm wrong in my beliefs, no harm no foul. If you're wrong, well, you better hope you're not.

Gonna be pretty hard to explain yourself when you're standing in front of the Almighty. You can't say it never occurred to you, that you didn't know better. Excuses won't fly then.

Again, if I'M wrong, who cares? Doesn't matter then. If YOU'RE wrong.. well, think about that.

settle down preacher

Feather Duster, actually you're right. 

I get too wound up when I think about this topic.  I can and will settle down. 

However Sir, calling me a preacher is no insult.

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Can you watch from start to finish?

-Justin

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this is a tough one I am morally against abortion and would never do it.  Had my son a year before I got married and it never crossed my mind.  There are a lot of good people looking to adopt seems there are a lot of other options.  People should be responsible for there actions but we all know that is not going to happen.  I think it should be a decision a person should make not the govt if they want to live with that kind of thing on them so be it.  What is the point we want the govt to tell us what to and not to do when it comes to moral issues?  I know how I feel about abortion I just don't know how I feel about the govt regulating every thing about life

 Adn

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Some graphic images?  Yes.  But I have a hunch some people support abortion without really knowing what it is or how they do it.  Some may not like the background music (mute it).  Others may not like the few quotes of scripture (ignore them if you must).  But at the very least the images of the babies say it all.  It's sickening what we allow in this country.

-Justin

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walleyepike1976 Said:

dakota1977 Said:
My wife's cousin is a neo-natologist.  He saves babies as early as 22 weeks.  It makes me sick that people think it's okay to "terminate" pregnancies that would result in living babies if they were delivered.  In the case of New Jersey, it's especially abominable that they allow termination all the way to "term".  And it's all done under the guise of "choice".  It truly shows how pathetic our society has become. 

At this point, I'm not going to get caught up in all the "exceptions".  Those are a small percentage of abortions.  The health of the mother/baby accounts for around 5-6% of abortions.  Rape/incest accounts for about 1%.  I'm talking about abortion as a means of birth control.  Yes, in about 93% or so of the cases of abortion it's done for a myriad of reasons that amount to nothing more than birth control.  It's atrocious.

-Justin

I truly and honestly believe that number is low.  They are only talking about reported rape/incest.  I have no way to back my feelings up but thats what  my intuition tells me.
I would be willing to bet that number is more like 7-10% if you could actually find the info to back it up which you probably cant because of HIPAA laws.  I just dont feel like digging for it right now.   Contrary to popular belief even now there is a lot of rape/incest crimes that dont get reported.

Around 50% of the rapes reported in this state are the "I just got drunk and didn't have a baby sitter" type. Then stupidity remorse sets in the next day and they are reported as "rapes". True forcible rapes rarely happen in this state, at least to adults. Look at the girl in Fargo who just got arrested for false reporting. Happens way more than anyone would believe.

Now when we are talking minors that is entirely a different situation. Those bastards having sex with little girls/boys should just be terminated. In those cases abortions may well be warranted and few should have a problem with it.

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KurtR Said:
this is a tough one I am morally against abortion and would never do it.  Had my son a year before I got married and it never crossed my mind.  There are a lot of good people looking to adopt seems there are a lot of other options.  People should be responsible for there actions but we all know that is not going to happen.  I think it should be a decision a person should make not the govt if they want to live with that kind of thing on them so be it.  What is the point we want the govt to tell us what to and not to do when it comes to moral issues?  I know how I feel about abortion I just don't know how I feel about the govt regulating every thing about life

But it wasn't your decision. Had your significant other decided to abort you would have had absolutely no recourse.

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Honkers_N_Walleyes Said:

flycaster Said:
 Honkers, who in the heck is saying that they don't believe in helping out children in poverty? 

No one is saying it directly obviously but, pretty much every conservative republican is against entitlement programs such as...food stamps, housing assistance, medicare, medicaid, school lunch programs assistance, elementary school milk programs(one our state thought we should give up so we can give bigger tax breaks to the oil companies)  correct?   Well how do you help kids in poverty if you cut those programs or take them away all together? Pro life = the entire childhood life not just from conception to birth.  Being pro life means helping ensure that child is born safely and grows up healthy until he/she is an adult.  Are you seeing the hipocracy yet? 

Most conservatives I know are all for helping those who cannot help themselves. It when those programs become a way of life for people in multiple generations is when we object.
This is the most prosperous country on the face of the earth. Yet there are those who CHOOSE to live off the labors of others and never make an effort to become successful themselves.

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Chargers Said:
worth a read for everyone, posted on their facebook page. again this is not a one size fits all cases law.

Red River Women's Clinic - Shelly Silkee
Let us please think rationally about what these Anti-Abortion bills really entail, please. Not all abortions are committed just because "this isn't wanted." North Dakota still has the highest incident of teen pregnancies per capita, and that was WITH legal abortions. So please don't be so silly. We do not have an abundance of abortions being performed - obviously. But what it does me...an is... Eptopic pregnancies will not be ended, meaning EXTREME health consequences and possibly death for the mother (and in most cases eptopic pregnancies do NOT yeild a living baby.) It means that when 2 people who love each other find out their fetus has genetic complications that mean their baby WON'T LIVE past a year will be burdened with heartbreak that is prolonged and severe. It means that a mother with severe health complications of her own will not be given precident over a fetus and could likely die (with no indication the baby lives, either. so BOTH could die?) What it means are little girls who are molested and raped will be FORCED to live with the unfortunate consequence of someone else's crime. If YOUR OWN MOTHER was forced with the decision to die or attempt an impossible delivery, would you not want YOUR OWN MOTHER to choose her life and remain in yours? Please, remove the blinders and remove the hate and disdain. These are your mothers, sisters, daughters, girlfriends, wives, best friends, neighbors, and co-workers. If YOU do not believe in abortions, by all means NOBODY will MAKE YOU GET ONE. But PLEASE do not turn a blind eye to the woman you may have condemned to a lifetime of hardship you cannot imagine, or to the woman whose death certificate you ought to be signing with your own name.

Is she that uneducated that she doesn't know the word is "ectopic" or is that an editor issue?

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watched both Dakota....pretty sure a kid the size of a quarter is a little different than one that can rip a sheet of paper. show me a video of a kid that can survive out of the womb the size of a quarter and you might change my mind. its not gonna happen. as for the first video yeah I know how a baby develops. I have 3 nieces and a nephew, so seen plenty of ultrasound pics and videos. thanks for sharing though but I still feel the same way.

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I see the propagandists and their shock adn gross videos are out in full force...

In the end it is about one thing - deciding your beliefs are more important than anothers and using born to fail, costly, legislation to impose them on others.

Many here whine and bemoan big government and the nanny state - than sit up and cheer as their religious beliefs become law over others.

You cannot have it both ways.

You are either for limited government and NO nanny state legislation or your not.

As for Jack signing it - no big deal - it will be struck down, after costing us millions of dollars in a doomed court case.

Perfect.

Patience Suchka.......

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Oh and those of you posting your videos - building your case on the dead.

You remind me of pinhead liberals and their using dead kids to push for gun bans.

Same ilk, same desired laws on others behavior.

No excusing it.

Now flame away to try and tell me how right you are, how your doing gods work and that entitles you to put laws on others.

Patience Suchka.......

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How anyone can watch those videos and still be pro-abortion is demented. Plain and simple. Does it suprise me.....no. Is it any wonder mass murders like Sandy Hook happen when the majority of this country is for killing babies? And then wash thier hands of the crime and to make themselves feel good they blame it on guns. Its a sick time we are living in.

 "Play it Mr.Toot"

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A point of confusion for me is that a mother is allowed to abort her baby but if someone runs into her with a vehicle and her baby dies that person can be charged with murder. That is totally inconsistent to me. Does it really matter who kills the baby? How can a baby be a human being in one circumstance and a fetus in another?

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EyeKllr Said:
I see the propagandists and their shock adn gross videos are out in full force...

In the end it is about one thing - deciding your beliefs are more important than anothers and using born to fail, costly, legislation to impose them on others.

Many here whine and bemoan big government and the nanny state - than sit up and cheer as their religious beliefs become law over others.

You cannot have it both ways.

You are either for limited government and NO nanny state legislation or your not.

As for Jack signing it - no big deal - it will be struck down, after costing us millions of dollars in a doomed court case.

Perfect.

So if you think tearing babies apart limb for limb while they are alive is a bad thing you must be religious? Like I said demented.

 "Play it Mr.Toot"

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Looks like tolerance is on display again.

www.inforum.com/event/article/id/394546/

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 so somehow we are going to try and make a connection between sandy hook and abortion? what next, abortion caused the housing bubble, global warming, 9-11? 

Sum1 Said:
How anyone can watch those videos and still be pro-abortion is demented. Plain and simple. Does it suprise me.....no. Is it any wonder mass murders like Sandy Hook happen when the majority of this country is for killing babies? And then wash thier hands of the crime and to make themselves feel good they blame it on guns. Its a sick time we are living in.
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Sum1 Said:

EyeKllr Said:
I see the propagandists and their shock adn gross videos are out in full force...

In the end it is about one thing - deciding your beliefs are more important than anothers and using born to fail, costly, legislation to impose them on others.

Many here whine and bemoan big government and the nanny state - than sit up and cheer as their religious beliefs become law over others.

You cannot have it both ways.

You are either for limited government and NO nanny state legislation or your not.

As for Jack signing it - no big deal - it will be struck down, after costing us millions of dollars in a doomed court case.

Perfect.

So if you think tearing babies apart limb for limb while they are alive is a bad thing you must be religious? Like I said demented.

Oh so it is now about a living thing.

So tell me...how long would it live outside its mothers womb? At early stages it is not an independent entity, a self sufficient entity.

Further...it isnt your decision.

Or wait - I get it - this is to be the cirular argument of the nanny state supporter. I say it is due religious beliefs, you becry it is alive...doctors say it feels, it is a human. I despair that belief and you come at me with the whole religious side.

No sale.

Keep your beliefs, whatever their motivation to yourself. Matter of fact keep your laws to yourself.

Patience Suchka.......

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I think the connection is a broken moral compass.  

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Old Jake Said:
A point of confusion for me is that a mother is allowed to abort her baby but if someone runs into her with a vehicle and her baby dies that person can be charged with murder. That is totally inconsistent to me. Does it really matter who kills the baby? How can a baby be a human being in one circumstance and a fetus in another?

Funny thing, that has come up in courts.

No one with an under three month pregnancy has been charged with the homicide of same in an accident.

Hey looky there...isnt that about the cut off time for an abortion as well.

Gee....think there might be a coincidence.

And lets not forget about the couple who know their child is to be born with numerous disabilities....make them have that child as well. Damned be their burden or the quality of the childs life....I mean it is all about your sitting at home feeling pretentious and trite in forcing your beliefs on others.

Patience Suchka.......

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This is the same Margret Sitte that was trying to ban books in public schools that she deemed offensive back in the 90's as well as trying to force the teaching of creationism in public schools as well. If you want to read about it yourself google "Sitte, Karls tried to ban books".
I know this doesn't have anything to do with abortion but it says a lot about her trying to legislate her personal beliefs on everyone else. Just simply trying to show who we are talking about in case some were not aware.

I am using my phone so if someone could post that article it would be appreciated.

 

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 I wonder if Jesus will make a special appearance on The Walking Dead this Sunday.

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Chargers Said:
 so somehow we are going to try and make a connection between sandy hook and abortion? what next, abortion caused the housing bubble, global warming, 9-11? 

Sum1 Said:
How anyone can watch those videos and still be pro-abortion is demented. Plain and simple. Does it suprise me.....no. Is it any wonder mass murders like Sandy Hook happen when the majority of this country is for killing babies? And then wash thier hands of the crime and to make themselves feel good they blame it on guns. Its a sick time we are living in.

I guess if your a simpleton thats the connection you'd make.

 The connection is society has no problem with 50 million babies being killed than we wonder why fruitloops walk into a school and think nothing of killing innocent school kids. How is it any different?

 "Play it Mr.Toot"

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EyeKllr Said:

Sum1 Said:

EyeKllr Said:
I see the propagandists and their shock adn gross videos are out in full force...

In the end it is about one thing - deciding your beliefs are more important than anothers and using born to fail, costly, legislation to impose them on others.

Many here whine and bemoan big government and the nanny state - than sit up and cheer as their religious beliefs become law over others.

You cannot have it both ways.

You are either for limited government and NO nanny state legislation or your not.

As for Jack signing it - no big deal - it will be struck down, after costing us millions of dollars in a doomed court case.

Perfect.

So if you think tearing babies apart limb for limb while they are alive is a bad thing you must be religious? Like I said demented.

Oh so it is now about a living thing.

So tell me...how long would it live outside its mothers womb? At early stages it is not an independent entity, a self sufficient entity.

Further...it isnt your decision.

Or wait - I get it - this is to be the cirular argument of the nanny state supporter. I say it is due religious beliefs, you becry it is alive...doctors say it feels, it is a human. I despair that belief and you come at me with the whole religious side.

No sale.

Keep your beliefs, whatever their motivation to yourself. Matter of fact keep your laws to yourself.

You missed the point I was trying to make. What I was saying is you don't have to be religious to think tearing live babies apart limb for limb is wrong.

 "Play it Mr.Toot"

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Just a few thoughts that have been running through my head since the signing...please take them as food for conversation and consider them before condemning, regardless of which side you're on. Ultimately, I would hope all of our motivations are to "do the right thing", by women and children alike. My opinion is that it may not be as black and white as some here would like to think.

Thoughts....

It's not all about unplanned pregnancies which many of you are focused on. That's one possible reason, albeit with potentially selfish motivation. There are so many situations to consider, too many to list, which may make abortion a thought for a woman. Some may be selfish, some may be medical, some may be situational...Do blanket laws cover every situation and "do the right thing" in all scenarios? If abortions are essentially no longer an option, do women, children and families fall through the cracks in instances where abortion may have prevented lifetimes of real hardship, sorrow, or death? How many of those "through the cracks" scenarios are ok in light making a stand against abortion?

I have to think that somewhere in ALL the posts I've read is an answer that we could all understand and which gets us closer to "doing the right thing" by those going considering abortion. I'm not sure that any of us have the right to speak on this too deeply until we've been in a situation where abortion is/was an option. Personally I had a choice 8 years ago, was in a tough life spot, considered ALL options with my pregnant girlfriend (wife now), and ultimately wound up with the most awesome 6 year old boy who is now the light of my life. We had help from Planned Parenthood and made the choice we did. However, I remind that no situations are exactly alike and a person can't fit it all under the same umbrella.

The fact remains that many women and men regret the choices after the fact. The regret stems from knowing that they didn't "do the right thing" in their situation. We all make choices that affect the rest of our lives and have to live with - choices that DO affect and sometimes ruin the lives of others. It's part of life.

Until the drivers on both sides of the debate agree on the definition of life, there will always be a gap between the extremes. However, even without the definition of life we can still look closely at situations that may warrant allowing a woman to make a choice about potential life. Does incest, rape, severe deformity, or maternal death during birth qualify? Are there more? Do none exist? What about fertility treatments...should my sister forgo an experience of birth because the government says she should? What's the right thing to do and does a blanket set of laws get the job done?

Like I mentioned...my experience with choice during pregnancy turned out with no regrets and a beautiful family. But I'm pretty level headed, no deck stacked against me, and capable. Most of us engaged in this debate don't live near the lives that some who struggle with this do, so we can only relate so far, if at all. And like I said earlier, I think we all want the same thing: Solutions to situations where women may consider aborting a child that results in an outcome all can live with. Extremes will always exist on both sides, but if 80% strive to be open minded and solution oriented, we can figure out a way to offer options other than abortion in most cases but with realistic paths including abortion when warranted.

My two cents, take it or leave it. Way to complicated to sum up by saying that its always a selfish act that results from unplanned pregnancy. Too many get lost in that statement and is not ok with me.

If you made it this far, thanks for taking the time. You're likely in the 80% that could make a difference!

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 So your saying that killing something that can't live by itself is the same as me walking into a post office and going postal? Give me a break. 

cant drink all day unless you start in the morning.
Im only one man
GET SOME!!!!!

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cant drink all day unless you start in the morning.
Im only one man
GET SOME!!!!!

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Yep, I'm a simpleton and I still fail to see the connection of an abortion and sandy hook.

Sum1 Said:

Chargers Said:
 so somehow we are going to try and make a connection between sandy hook and abortion? what next, abortion caused the housing bubble, global warming, 9-11? 
Sum1 Said:
How anyone can watch those videos and still be pro-abortion is demented. Plain and simple. Does it suprise me.....no. Is it any wonder mass murders like Sandy Hook happen when the majority of this country is for killing babies? And then wash thier hands of the crime and to make themselves feel good they blame it on guns. Its a sick time we are living in.

I guess if your a simpleton thats the connection you'd make.

 The connection is society has no problem with 50 million babies being killed than we wonder why fruitloops walk into a school and think nothing of killing innocent school kids. How is it any different?

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....I mean it is all about your sitting at home feeling pretentious and trite in forcing your beliefs on others.

From a societal stand point and not a personal one isn't being pro abortion or anti abortion both trying to get society to make laws in our favor?   My point is your pro abortion stand is as "forcing" as the anti abortion stand.   I'm not going to research all night, but don't most laws work that way?  Lets say some guy hates another guy to the extreme he would like to kill him.  Isn't outlawing murder forcing your opinion and my opinion on that person?  Yes Yes I know extreme, but I'm simply making a point.  Besides many of us consider abortion murder.

When two sides disagree one side is going to have it's opinion forced on the other.  You appear to think that somehow your side is more entitled and the other side is less entitled to do the same thing. 
 

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So now individuals that can't survive at certain points on their own are okay to terminate? By that same principle is it okay to terminate someone that can't live without a bottle of oxygen or has to be on life support...even if only temporarily? It must be okay to terminate them. I mean why wouldn't we? After all, many are saying we can terminate what are clearly babies because they "can't survive out of the womb". Their situation is only temporary in which they are on life support (i.e. in the uterus) if they are but given a chance.

The Declaration of Independence talks about Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. The Constitution was designed to protect liberty. You cannot protect liberty if there is no life! None of the constitutional protections matter one iota without the fundamental protection of life itself. There is absolutely nothing conflicting or hypocriphal about working for limited government while working to protect life. Especially the lives of those that cannot protect themselves.

-Justin

-Justin

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Sum1 Said:

EyeKllr Said:

Sum1 Said:

EyeKllr Said:
I see the propagandists and their shock adn gross videos are out in full force...

In the end it is about one thing - deciding your beliefs are more important than anothers and using born to fail, costly, legislation to impose them on others.

Many here whine and bemoan big government and the nanny state - than sit up and cheer as their religious beliefs become law over others.

You cannot have it both ways.

You are either for limited government and NO nanny state legislation or your not.

As for Jack signing it - no big deal - it will be struck down, after costing us millions of dollars in a doomed court case.

Perfect.

So if you think tearing babies apart limb for limb while they are alive is a bad thing you must be religious? Like I said demented.

Oh so it is now about a living thing.

So tell me...how long would it live outside its mothers womb? At early stages it is not an independent entity, a self sufficient entity.

Further...it isnt your decision.

Or wait - I get it - this is to be the cirular argument of the nanny state supporter. I say it is due religious beliefs, you becry it is alive...doctors say it feels, it is a human. I despair that belief and you come at me with the whole religious side.

No sale.

Keep your beliefs, whatever their motivation to yourself. Matter of fact keep your laws to yourself.

You missed the point I was trying to make. What I was saying is you don't have to be religious to think tearing live babies apart limb for limb is wrong.

Tearing babies...

Wow....whats the matter couldnt try to be more shocking and graphic...

You should be a liberal - you use the same tactics.

So tell me about that "baby" that cannot survive outside the mother.

Embryo....is now a baby...

Sure..

Like I said - no sale.

You dont like abortions - than dont get one. But do get a life, your own and life it as you will and stay the hell out of other peoples lives, and choices.

And what about the other part of my thread....so parents find out they are to have a significantly impaired child. Now they have to have it with no regard to that childs quality of life...

What about them....answer the question...what about the disabled child?

You cant answer...you have no answer.

Just moronic statements to try and justify your small minded, trite little view - that your happy to force on others.

Patience Suchka.......

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BTW... I stumbled across this quote about viability which I found very enlightening.

"...The nine-month old fetus is no more viable than the one-month old one. In fact, a one-month old baby has the same degree of viability. I hate to be so crude, but leave all three of them unattended on a table in a hospital and see what happens."

Source: http://lewrockwell.com/vance/vance297.html

-Justin

-Justin

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