Really Jack?

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Farnorth Said:
There is zero middle ground on this issue (to the zealots on either side).

Pro-Life means abortion is NEVER acceptable.  Not if the life of the Mother is in danger.  Not if the pregnancy is the result of rape or incest.  It can NEVER be acceptable to arbitrarily terminate a life.  All is God's Will.  Any other view is hypocritical.

Pro Choice means abortion with little or no restrictions.  Something we don't have now.

What we currently have is something in between.  That's the Law of the Land post-Roe v Wade.

The Bills signed into Law today are designed to move the line.  That's all it is.  The only part that bothers me a little bit is that North Dakota Taxpayers get to finance the fight.

I'm also a bit perplexed that our Legislature that cares so deeply about the unborn doesn't seem to care a whole lot about kids after they are born.  That's kind oif a puzzler.

These are all things that bother me.  Still do, right to this very minute.

My wife and I are expecting our first child.  This stuff weighs heavily on my mind.  Would I be hypocritical?  In context of this forum yes.  But I have left several other opinions on other forums discussion the very subject in your quoted post.

Its a very difficult decision to me.  If abortion was chosen over adoption, I wouldn't be having a child with my wife.  So as you can see, I am not making my indecisiveness up.

My past words in this thread are geared toward the disgusting belief I get that people seem to not have any remorse on the subject.  Some how it the woman's choice (never the man who had to participate for conception to even occur).  Or somehow it isn't right for the government not to have a voice in what is murder and what is not.

That is why my words are so fierce.  But you are right, there can and will be hypocrites in this.  I will not be too cowardly to admit that.  I just ask the same from others that have posted.

Anyway, I was told I was getting dragged through the coals being a moderator and posting in topics like this.  Whatever people, you know dang well how loose I moderate.  If you aren't a complete idiot you will not get your post removed.

Just because I voice my opinions doesn't mean FBO adopts them.

I wonder how many of you wrote your legislators?  I just spent my whole entire evening writing my testimony for HB 1338.  I walk the walk and talk the talk.


 

 

Kirsch's Outdoor Products | Fargo, ND | 701-261-9017 Garmin GPS Hunting Maps
Liebel's Guide Service | Williston, ND | 701-770-6746 liebelsguideservice.com
Jig-em-Up Guide Service | Grand Forks, ND | 701-739-9198 jig-em-up-guide-service.com

 

 
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So if you voted or are for the death penalty then your all ready a murderer.......
That the way you think?
All to due with GOD nothing with personal rights.
 
Need a laugh imagine the nursery in heaven......how many billion crying, diaper need changing babies
 


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All I know is I am willing to wager my life that there are far, far, FAR more abortions because people are cowards to raise a child.  Or face their parents and say they had a bad night of decision making...or whatever it is.

I can side with losing your wife and therefore coping with an abortion

I can side with someone raped or insest and coping with an abortion

I might even allow my mind to open the ability to cope for predictable obvious serious birth defects (although I seriously struggle with this one)

But other than that.  I really have no remorse for people that will kill a baby and defend it in the ways they do.


 

 

Kirsch's Outdoor Products | Fargo, ND | 701-261-9017 Garmin GPS Hunting Maps
Liebel's Guide Service | Williston, ND | 701-770-6746 liebelsguideservice.com
Jig-em-Up Guide Service | Grand Forks, ND | 701-739-9198 jig-em-up-guide-service.com

 

 
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rhameboy Said:
So if you voted or are for the death penalty then your all ready a murderer.......
That the way you think?
All to due with GOD nothing with personal rights.
 
Need a laugh imagine the nursery in heaven......how many billion crying, diaper need changing babies
 

Silly man, aborted babies ddon't go to heaven unless a pedophile in a dress puts water on its head.  The nursery is in hell, and Satan is becoming angry from all the diaper changing.  His wrath will be upon us soon.

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Plainsman Said:

DirtyMike Said:
On that notion, didn't your tax dollars go to the auto companies during the bailout?  Don't some of those vehicles kill people.  Quit supporting death by vehicle!

So dirty are all those abortions accidental? 

They could be, some might be like people running their car into someone on purpose, but we don't know because its not us in the primary position. 


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Admittedly I could be ignorant about this... But, in what case would tax $ pay for an abortion? Or insurance for that matter? Most policies don't cover them unless they are for health reasons I thought. Even then, its probably only a couple $ more than the deductible.

Born to hunt and fish... Forced to work!

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If you believe abortion is murder than how can you justify killing some,( rape, incest and such.) are they not innocent little babies...why kill them too?
Oh I guess established religion had justifiably murdered in some cases through out history!
 


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Tim, I am on the exact same page as your last post but the problem is with this bill as written you don't have that choice to make (rape and life of the mother), our state government decided for you.

 

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whitetailhunter Said:
 I am so happy he signed all off these bills.  Abortion is an abomination....Same sex marriage is an abomination...its time for us to start standing up and quit allowing these things to poison our world.

Its time for people to start caring about others and stop all this selfishness.  Our selfishness is so out of control in this country that if we have to wait for anything or we can't have anything we cry like little babies about it.  Listen, there are so many people hurting in this world that would love to have the problems most of us have....heck they would be happy to have anything.  It is time for us to put our own selfish pride aside and think of others more then ourselves.  We are called to be servants......so who are we serving?  Ourselves, or are we treating others as more then ourselves?

I saw that protester on the news the other day saying "we need to stop the war against women".  What war is she talking about?  In war there are casualties and I can't remember the last time a woman was killed because she had an abortion.  The only casualties are these innocent blessings from God that are killed selfishly everyday.  We need to stop the war on babies!!!!!!

Hard to believe those two paragraphs are so close together and from the same person.

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BringingTheRain Said:

whitetailhunter Said:
 I am so happy he signed all off these bills.  Abortion is an abomination....Same sex marriage is an abomination...its time for us to start standing up and quit allowing these things to poison our world.

Its time for people to start caring about others and stop all this selfishness.  Our selfishness is so out of control in this country that if we have to wait for anything or we can't have anything we cry like little babies about it.  Listen, there are so many people hurting in this world that would love to have the problems most of us have....heck they would be happy to have anything.  It is time for us to put our own selfish pride aside and think of others more then ourselves.  We are called to be servants......so who are we serving?  Ourselves, or are we treating others as more then ourselves?

I saw that protester on the news the other day saying "we need to stop the war against women".  What war is she talking about?  In war there are casualties and I can't remember the last time a woman was killed because she had an abortion.  The only casualties are these innocent blessings from God that are killed selfishly everyday.  We need to stop the war on babies!!!!!!

Hard to believe those two paragraphs are so close together and from the same person.

whats even funnier is he hates an entire group of people that are guaranteed never to have an abortion.  If anything he should be supporting gay rights.

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rhameboy Said:

If you believe abortion is murder than how can you justify killing some,( rape, incest and such.) are they not innocent little babies...why kill them too?
Oh I guess established religion had justifiably murdered in some cases through out history!
 

God's ok wither murderers. A sin is a sin, jack!

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whats even funnier is he hates an entire group of people that are guaranteed never to have an abortion.  If anything he should be supporting gay rights.

 

And a group of people that are willing to adopt.

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BringingTheRain Said:

whitetailhunter Said:
 I am so happy he signed all off these bills.  Abortion is an abomination....Same sex marriage is an abomination...its time for us to start standing up and quit allowing these things to poison our world.

Its time for people to start caring about others and stop all this selfishness.  Our selfishness is so out of control in this country that if we have to wait for anything or we can't have anything we cry like little babies about it.  Listen, there are so many people hurting in this world that would love to have the problems most of us have....heck they would be happy to have anything.  It is time for us to put our own selfish pride aside and think of others more then ourselves.  We are called to be servants......so who are we serving?  Ourselves, or are we treating others as more then ourselves?

I saw that protester on the news the other day saying "we need to stop the war against women".  What war is she talking about?  In war there are casualties and I can't remember the last time a woman was killed because she had an abortion.  The only casualties are these innocent blessings from God that are killed selfishly everyday.  We need to stop the war on babies!!!!!!

Hard to believe those two paragraphs are so close together and from the same person.

The second paragraph sounds like a gun control argument.  

 Women look at their bodies the way many look at our guns, only it is a much more personal thing.     If you want to have your freedoms, you need to respect the freedoms of others.

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These laws have been getting quite a bit of coverage in the national media.   This stuff might play in ND., but it makes the GOP appear as the party of religious zealots to women, moderate and younger voters.     Unless the GOP gets it's act together or a viable 3rd party emerges this country is going to become California with a completely out of control Gov't. and the opposition will become nothing more than a speed bump.

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 It all comes across as very phony to me.   People that preach freedom and limited gov't and tend to not display a whole lot of compassion or empathy, all of the sudden do an about-face on this issue.   All because of the connection to sex.


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I  think some of you pro life guys should spend a day with a PATH  worker once in case you forgot what the real world is actually like.  

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I am pro choice, OH yeah I am too, I like to smoke, NOO only in your house.

  I like soda,  Not more then 16 ounces.  I prey to God, only in your church unless you are muslim.

I speak my mind, Use only politically correct terms. I like guns, Only the ones we tell you you can buy .

tell me again what I can choose, An abortion.

Hyprocrite enuf for U.

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It amazes me how many people think a woman's right to choose is somehow gone by prohibiting abortion. With rare exception (I.e. rape) the woman has her choice in the moment when she decides whether to have sexual intercourse or not. If a woman (or a man for that matter) does not want to have children, then why are they engaging in sexual activity? Men and women know the potential consequences (i.e. pregnancy) of such actions.

When a person drinks and drives, and it results in an accident, they cannot suddenly remove the consequences of their actions. They knew when they drank the risks that were associated with doing so. Why do so many think it's okay to engage in sexual activity, engender a child as result, and then act like it didn't happen and remove the child so as to not have to deal with the consequences of their actions? It seems to me we have a rampant problem in this country of a society that somehow thinks of "choice" being disconnected from responsibility.

We can argue until we're blue in the face about "when life begins". I will not pretend to know, but why is it so unreasonable to err on the side of caution. While we may not be able to prove to everyone's satisfaction the precise moment when life begins, we all know that the PROCESS of life begins at the moment of conception. So, knowing that "life" begins some time between conception and delivery, do we not have an obligation to protect the life of the unborn or even potential life? I would hope none of us would be okay with someone demolishing a building if we knew there might be someone inside.

I personally don't know anyone that has had an abortion. Or, as has been pointed out, maybe I do but the person is too ashamed to make it known. Why are so many ashamed? Because they inherently know it's wrong. Regardless of how legal it's been. Regardless of how widely acceptable it's become to so many. Many people still inherently feel shame and remorse and realize its not acceptable. Why do so many women mourn the loss of pregnancy via a miscarriage? Because they inherently know that the pregnancy was the very process of life, if not life itself. And they know that the loss means there will be no life...no baby.

My brother and his wife have three adopted children. How grateful I am their biological mothers chose life. Tens of millions of pregnancies have been terminated, and I cannot help but wonder how many may have been terminated in the process that may have helped to change the world for the better.

We desperately need a return to personal choice AND accountability/responsibility, respect for the life-giving processes, and acting better than mere animals who give in to every urge/impulse as if we cannot control ourselves.

-Justin

-Justin

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 I'm going to state my opinions on abortion and these laws only once.

IMO abortion should only be allowed in cases of rape or if the life of the mother or baby is in jeopardy. Abortion should never be allowed as a form of birth control. There are plenty of birth control options out there including the fool proof one, abstinence!

With that said these laws that were just signed are a huge waist of taxpayer money. They have zero chance of winning any legal battle. But our legislature seems to like waisting taxpayer money on things that stand no chance, ie UND's nickname. Way to go Al and Jack!

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Thats because we are in a me society. Just look at the comments on the first page, they are more worried about money then a babies life.

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The jokes about nurseries in Heaven or Hell - jokes, are disgusting. If you don't believe in Heaven or Hell, then you BETTER be right. If I'm wrong in my beliefs, no harm no foul. If you're wrong, well, you better hope you're not.

Gonna be pretty hard to explain yourself when you're standing in front of the Almighty. You can't say it never occurred to you, that you didn't know better. Excuses won't fly then.

Again, if I'M wrong, who cares? Doesn't matter then. If YOU'RE wrong.. well, think about that.

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HUNTNFISHND Said:
 I'm going to state my opinions on abortion and these laws only once.

IMO abortion should only be allowed in cases of rape or if the life of the mother or baby is in jeopardy. Abortion should never be allowed as a form of birth control. There are plenty of birth control options out there including the fool proof one, abstinence!

With that said these laws that were just signed are a huge waist of taxpayer money. They have zero chance of winning any legal battle. But our legislature seems to like waisting taxpayer money on things that stand no chance, ie UND's nickname. Way to go Al and Jack!

So, basically, you're more pro life than pro choice.  Technically, you aren't in either camp.  I'm similar but probably closer to the true middle since I would agree with more "exceptions" (ie Genetic defects and a few others).  I don't approve of abortion as a method of birth control but I also have no problem with things like morning after pills or some of the in vitro stuff that is being done.

If the protection of the unborn is paramount, then rape or the life of the Mother are irrelevant.  That would be a true pro life position.

I have changed my opinion about the cost of defending these Laws.  I DON'T think it will be expensive.  I think a Federal District Court will very quickly strike them down as Unconstitutional.  I think the SCOTUS will refuse to hear any appeals because there is nothing new, the makeup of the Court has not changed, and that will be the end of it as far as ND is concerned.

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HUNTNFISHND Said:
 I'm going to state my opinions on abortion and these laws only once.

IMO abortion should only be allowed in cases of rape or if the life of the mother or baby is in jeopardy. Abortion should never be allowed as a form of birth control. There are plenty of birth control options out there including the fool proof one, abstinence!

With that said these laws that were just signed are a huge waist of taxpayer money. They have zero chance of winning any legal battle. But our legislature seems to like waisting taxpayer money on things that stand no chance, ie UND's nickname. Way to go Al and Jack!

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Farnorth Said:

HUNTNFISHND Said:
 I'm going to state my opinions on abortion and these laws only once.

IMO abortion should only be allowed in cases of rape or if the life of the mother or baby is in jeopardy. Abortion should never be allowed as a form of birth control. There are plenty of birth control options out there including the fool proof one, abstinence!

With that said these laws that were just signed are a huge waist of taxpayer money. They have zero chance of winning any legal battle. But our legislature seems to like waisting taxpayer money on things that stand no chance, ie UND's nickname. Way to go Al and Jack!

So, basically, you're more pro life than pro choice.  Technically, you aren't in either camp.  I'm similar but probably closer to the true middle since I would agree with more "exceptions" (ie Genetic defects and a few others).  I don't approve of abortion as a method of birth control but I also have no problem with things like morning after pills or some of the in vitro stuff that is being done.

If the protection of the unborn is paramount, then rape or the life of the Mother are irrelevant.  That would be a true pro life position.

I have changed my opinion about the cost of defending these Laws.  I DON'T think it will be expensive.  I think a Federal District Court will very quickly strike them down as Unconstitutional.  I think the SCOTUS will refuse to hear any appeals because there is nothing new, the makeup of the Court has not changed, and that will be the end of it as far as ND is concerned.

  pretty much sums it up for me also

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Candiru Said:
 It all comes across as very phony to me.   People that preach freedom and limited gov't and tend to not display a whole lot of compassion or empathy, all of the sudden do an about-face on this issue.   All because of the connection to sex.

You are very wrong and your ignorance is absolutely astounding.

Conservatives and faithfuls show greate compassion and empathy with immense charity and giving of time and service THEMSELVES!!!!

Do yourself (and me) a favor and research how much conservatives/Repolicans give of themselves vs. the Democrats. You'll be quite surprised.

Libs and Progressives show empathy by taxing OTHER PEOPLE and using that to give/serve. Real freaking easy to do when it's somebody else's money!!

Wake up and smell the coffee and stop drinking the koolaid.

Here's an example. Good day to you sir!

Bleeding Heart Tightwads

 
Published: December 20, 2008

This holiday season is a time to examine who’s been naughty and who’s been nice, but I’m unhappy with my findings. The problem is this: We liberals are personally stingy.

Fred R. Conrad/The New York Times

Nicholas D. Kristof

__________________________________________________________________

Liberals show tremendous compassion in pushing for generous government spending to help the neediest people at home and abroad. Yet when it comes to individual contributions to charitable causes, liberals are cheapskates.

Arthur Brooks, the author of a book on donors to charity, “Who Really Cares,” cites data that households headed by conservatives give 30 percent more to charity than households headed by liberals. A study by Google found an even greater disproportion: average annual contributions reported by conservatives were almost double those of liberals.

Other research has reached similar conclusions. The “generosity index” from the Catalogue for Philanthropy typically finds that red states are the most likely to give to nonprofits, while Northeastern states are least likely to do so.

The upshot is that Democrats, who speak passionately about the hungry and homeless, personally fork over less money to charity than Republicans — the ones who try to cut health insurance for children.

“When I started doing research on charity,” Mr. Brooks wrote, “I expected to find that political liberals — who, I believed, genuinely cared more about others than conservatives did — would turn out to be the most privately charitable people. So when my early findings led me to the opposite conclusion, I assumed I had made some sort of technical error. I re-ran analyses. I got new data. Nothing worked. In the end, I had no option but to change my views.”

Something similar is true internationally. European countries seem to show more compassion than America in providing safety nets for the poor, and they give far more humanitarian foreign aid per capita than the United States does. But as individuals, Europeans are far less charitable than Americans.

Americans give sums to charity equivalent to 1.67 percent of G.N.P., according to a terrific new book, “Philanthrocapitalism,” by Matthew Bishop and Michael Green. The British are second, with 0.73 percent, while the stingiest people on the list are the French, at 0.14 percent.

(Looking away from politics, there’s evidence that one of the most generous groups in America is gays. Researchers believe that is because they are less likely to have rapacious heirs pushing to keep wealth in the family.)

When liberals see the data on giving, they tend to protest that conservatives look good only because they shower dollars on churches — that a fair amount of that money isn’t helping the poor, but simply constructing lavish spires.

It’s true that religion is the essential reason conservatives give more, and religious liberals are as generous as religious conservatives. Among the stingiest of the stingy are secular conservatives.

According to Google’s figures, if donations to all religious organizations are excluded, liberals give slightly more to charity than conservatives do. But Mr. Brooks says that if measuring by the percentage of income given, conservatives are more generous than liberals even to secular causes.

In any case, if conservative donations often end up building extravagant churches, liberal donations frequently sustain art museums, symphonies, schools and universities that cater to the well-off. (It’s great to support the arts and education, but they’re not the same as charity for the needy. And some research suggests that donations to education actually increase inequality because they go mostly to elite institutions attended by the wealthy.)

Conservatives also appear to be more generous than liberals in nonfinancial ways. People in red states are considerably more likely to volunteer for good causes, and conservatives give blood more often. If liberals and moderates gave blood as often as conservatives, Mr. Brooks said, the American blood supply would increase by 45 percent.

So, you’ve guessed it! This column is a transparent attempt this holiday season to shame liberals into being more charitable. Since I often scold Republicans for being callous in their policies toward the needy, it seems only fair to reproach Democrats for being cheap in their private donations. What I want for Christmas is a healthy competition between left and right to see who actually does more for the neediest.

Of course, given the economic pinch these days, charity isn’t on the top of anyone’s agenda. Yet the financial ability to contribute to charity, and the willingness to do so, are strikingly unrelated. Amazingly, the working poor, who have the least resources, somehow manage to be more generous as a percentage of income than the middle class.

So, even in tough times, there are ways to help. Come on liberals, redeem yourselves, and put your wallets where your hearts are.

 

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jaykay Said:
The jokes about nurseries in Heaven or Hell - jokes, are disgusting. If you don't believe in Heaven or Hell, then you BETTER be right. If I'm wrong in my beliefs, no harm no foul. If you're wrong, well, you better hope you're not.

Gonna be pretty hard to explain yourself when you're standing in front of the Almighty. You can't say it never occurred to you, that you didn't know better. Excuses won't fly then.

Again, if I'M wrong, who cares? Doesn't matter then. If YOU'RE wrong.. well, think about that.

settle down preacher

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anyone?

Chargers Said:
with laws like this is there going to be many more octomoms  as they are not able to do selective reduction during the process? is it right for laws to be passed to limit people from getting pregnant this way? 
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Something is going on with my mouse.  I apologize for all the double posts the last couple days.  Friggen technology. 


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You always see it in movies based in the future, permits to have children because of overcrowding.  Now, I know it's hollywood but is it that hard to believe the human population has overgrown the carrying capacity of the world?  I see a lot of inherent problems with every couple needing to apply for a procreation permit but in theory, it's not a bad idea.  In the end, it's just one more law for American citizens to follow. 

Chargers Said:
anyone?
Chargers Said:
with laws like this is there going to be many more octomoms  as they are not able to do selective reduction during the process? is it right for laws to be passed to limit people from getting pregnant this way? 


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Conservatives and faithfuls show greate compassion and empathy with immense charity and giving of time and service THEMSELVES!!!!

Do yourself (and me) a favor and research how much conservatives/Repolicans give of themselves vs. the Democrats. You'll be quite surprised.

Libs and Progressives show empathy by taxing OTHER PEOPLE and using that to give/serve. Real freaking easy to do when it's somebody else's money!!

Your absolutely right.  When we look at our congress the republicans give about four times as much to charity as democrats.  Liberals are parasites. 

As for abortion I can find only one word to describe it "barbaric".  I guess I put  it on about the same scale as cannibalism.  Actually if it's just a lump of tissue isn't it a waste of protein to throw it away.  What do you think fried or BBQ?  When pirates came into the Caribbean culture they referred to cooked human meat as "long pork".  How much difference is there in an abortion and some barbarian sitting at a camp fire with a big grin and a greasy face of human fat?  Ya, we are sure sophisticated.  Lets all stick a bone in our nose and dance around the fire.   

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