Really Jack?

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So I ask this at what point does the mothers life become less important than babies life?  I keep getting asked about my beliefs and seriously would like to know the answer to this question.  I believe mothers health trumps pre outside of womb baby viability.  If the baby is viable outside the womb then they can deliver and try to keep them both alive. 

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 Gonefishin, it may be a waste of money to you for legal fees but there are some things that people feel strong enough about to fight.  As for people being assholes to other members who disagree on this topic, I must say, I haven't seen it.  No one has been rude to me and I to others.  

There are some things worth fighting for.  This is one of them.

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multi-species-angler Said:
 

Bri-Guy2 Said:
What isn't getting enough attention is what happens to these unwanted children.  I don't see Grande or Sitte proposing legislation to fund their births, daycare, food, pre-school education, or medical.  They haven't proposed any legislation to streamline the adoption process.  Hell, they won't even agree to pay for these kids to get a $0.10 carton of milk at school! 

Instead, they (and most of you) will call the parents (and children) "takers" and "leeches."  Every day I see people on here constantmly complaining about all the welfare recipients out there and how you hate to pay for these services.  What do you think is going to happen now?  How many of these children do you think are going into self-sufficient homes? 

I can't help be see a lot of those people who support this unconstitutional law talking out of both sides of their mouths.  "You can't pass a law taking away my constitutional right to own an assault rifle"..."but go ahead an pass a law taking away a woman's constitutional right to terminate a pre-viable pregnancy."  

Drop off the next unwanted black gay crack baby at dalrymples house, along with a severely disfigured brain dead humanoid and see if he's interested in caring for them

I'm  not sure he would let a liberal into his house.

Speaking of  liberal why is it they are willing to suck the brains out of a human, but put you in prison for years if you step on an eagle egg?    Not original I read another post somewhere. 

Why do people keep asking about the mothers life?  There are provisions made for the danger to the mothers life and other provisions.  Are these people trying to mislead the  not to smart or can't they  read?   The question has been aswered a number of times.  Go back and read. 

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Has been pretty civil for a change.

Born to hunt and fish... Forced to work!

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gonefshn Said:

espringers Said:
 

gonefshn Said:
They are all God's children. So they would have the Right to Life and be given the gift of breathing air, of being fed to grow up to be Loved.
Do you agree?

It's what I was taught too, but not everyone believes in God the way I do.  They should be allowed to believe their way just like I should mine. When you bring God into the argument, you ruin the "legal" justification in my opinion.  Our country was based on seperating church and state and allowing for people of all beliefs. 

What I find most ironic on this is how it's mostly the righties who are super anti-abortion and feel it's their cause to push this view on everyone else.  But when it comes to libs pushing their view of who's sick, who needs help, gun control, and what not on them they totally freak out.  Those things effect "life" as well.

Kinda fun as a middle roader watching all the hypocracy in action.

"middle roader"... lol... don't you realize that's just a term that liberals like us/you use to describe yourself/ourselves to make us/you feel better and feel accepted by the mob?  i bet you wear a big flaming rainbow shirt and use the moniker gonefishingwdemocrats on the usual liberal blog sites you visit while sitting at your government funded computer, drinking your government funded coffee... awaiting your government funded retirement so that you can enjoy the fruits of your many years of perpetuating your liberal mindset on the internet and sit around sucking at the government tit until you die in a government funded nursing home being paid for by a "public option" insurance plan.  

No I'm not a farmer. 

phhhhhfffttttt.... that there is funny shtuff... gonfshn, the closet liberal and farmer hater.

Born to hunt and fish... Forced to work!

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For those that don't like to read, here's the video of what the Judge has to add to the subject at hand.  I posted the transcript earlier.

-Justin

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Plainsman Said:

multi-species-angler Said:
 

Bri-Guy2 Said:
What isn't getting enough attention is what happens to these unwanted children.  I don't see Grande or Sitte proposing legislation to fund their births, daycare, food, pre-school education, or medical.  They haven't proposed any legislation to streamline the adoption process.  Hell, they won't even agree to pay for these kids to get a $0.10 carton of milk at school! 

Instead, they (and most of you) will call the parents (and children) "takers" and "leeches."  Every day I see people on here constantmly complaining about all the welfare recipients out there and how you hate to pay for these services.  What do you think is going to happen now?  How many of these children do you think are going into self-sufficient homes? 

I can't help be see a lot of those people who support this unconstitutional law talking out of both sides of their mouths.  "You can't pass a law taking away my constitutional right to own an assault rifle"..."but go ahead an pass a law taking away a woman's constitutional right to terminate a pre-viable pregnancy."  

Drop off the next unwanted black gay crack baby at dalrymples house, along with a severely disfigured brain dead humanoid and see if he's interested in caring for them

I'm  not sure he would let a liberal into his house.

Speaking of  liberal why is it they are willing to suck the brains out of a human, but put you in prison for years if you step on an eagle egg?    Not original I read another post somewhere. 

Why do people keep asking about the mothers life?  There are provisions made for the danger to the mothers life and other provisions.  Are these people trying to mislead the  not to smart or can't they  read?   The question has been aswered a number of times.  Go back and read. 

I have read both of the House bills and yes it does have exceptions.  I know that.  This has been more of an discussion about abortion itself not the laws that were signed.  At least from my side it has been.

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walleyepike1976 ahh I understand.  Others have asked that question even after it has been answered, so my question stands, but not towards you.

I should also not repay condescension with condescension that gets us nowhere.  That in relation to the governor not letting a liberal into his house.  I'll try harder not to get ticked when liberals think they are intellectually superior. 

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flycaster Said:
 Honkers, who in the heck is saying that they don't believe in helping out children in poverty? 

No one is saying it directly obviously but, pretty much every conservative republican is against entitlement programs such as...food stamps, housing assistance, medicare, medicaid, school lunch programs assistance, elementary school milk programs(one our state thought we should give up so we can give bigger tax breaks to the oil companies)  correct?   Well how do you help kids in poverty if you cut those programs or take them away all together? Pro life = the entire childhood life not just from conception to birth.  Being pro life means helping ensure that child is born safely and grows up healthy until he/she is an adult.  Are you seeing the hipocracy yet? 

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 Honkers, which republicans are against those entitlements you stated?  I've heard many republicans want to reform those entitlements to cut down on how much they are costing us but I don't know of any that want to completely get rid of those entitlements.  Name some names and examples of where they say they want to completely get rid of those programs.

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Here's a documentary on abortion that is hosted by Dr. Martin Luther King's daughter.  It's long, but for those interested, here it is:

-Justin

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gonefshn Said:
The fact is this will never be resolved until there a constitutional amendment that defines it.  And unfortunately, there will never be agreement "when" a person becomes a person.  Until then, we'll continue to waste millions of dollars in legal fees and people on here will be assholes to other members who might disagree with their view be it pro, anti, or whatever.  

This whole debate in North Dakota is about "Moving the line".  There are very few true pro lifers who absolutely value the life of EVERY unborn child.  Any exception for pregnancies due to rape or incest is hypocrisy at it highest.  Nobody knows for sure if a potentially problem pregnancy that threatens the life of the Mother couldn't still result in a healthy Baby.  In that case, the rules suddenly change and it's alright to terminate.  If we have no right to play God, why would that be a consideration?

There is hypocrisy from the pro-abortion/pro-choice side too.  Probably not to the same extent though because it is easier for them to compromise.  They never started from an absolute so that's natural.

So, for the last 40 years or so, the "LINE" has been 24 weeks.  Up to the end of the second trimester.

One of the new Laws uses a heartbeat as a deadline which apparently could be as soon as 6 weeks after conception.

I'm almost dead center in the middle so this is interesting as heck to me.  I can't even get genuinely mad at either side. 

I don't even mind that much that it will cost some money.  After all, we could be wasting money buying milk for little poor kids or maybe funding more Head Start Programs.  The Legislature has already made it clear that those things are totally unreasonable. 

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phhhhhfffttttt.... that there is funny shtuff... gonfshn, the closet liberal and farmer hater.

Call me whatever you want.  I grew out of worrying about people calling me names or using labels to bully their point way back in grade school.  I know that in many areas I'm very conservative.  In others I'm open to other ideas and am not willing to do something just because that's the way it's been done for years.  Which as the dictionary defines as being a liberal.  I realize that according to a few here on FB that if you don't strictly follow the far right agenda lockstep and are willing to open your mind a bit to other views you're going to be called a closet liberal or whatever.  I'm totally fine with that. 

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 to be clear.... me was just fu8king with you.

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My wife's cousin is a neo-natologist.  He saves babies as early as 22 weeks.  It makes me sick that people think it's okay to "terminate" pregnancies that would result in living babies if they were delivered.  In the case of New Jersey, it's especially abominable that they allow termination all the way to "term".  And it's all done under the guise of "choice".  It truly shows how pathetic our society has become. 

At this point, I'm not going to get caught up in all the "exceptions".  Those are a small percentage of abortions.  The health of the mother/baby accounts for around 5-6% of abortions.  Rape/incest accounts for about 1%.  I'm talking about abortion as a means of birth control.  Yes, in about 93% or so of the cases of abortion it's done for a myriad of reasons that amount to nothing more than birth control.  It's atrocious.

-Justin

-Justin

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OK, now I really am ticked off.  Those SOB's still won't let us buy bottle rockets.  WTF?

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flycaster Said:
 And knock it off you pro-abortion people.  The laws make exceptions for some abortions.  You are lying when you say that all abortions will be illegal under these laws.  They all are legal up to six weeks.

just read what i am posting, not all ectopic pregnancy's are found prior to six weeks. just read it.

Red River Women's Clinic - Shelly Silkee
Let us please think rationally about what these Anti-Abortion bills really entail, please. Not all abortions are committed just because "this isn't wanted." North Dakota still has the highest incident of teen pregnancies per capita, and that was WITH legal abortions. So please don't be so silly. We do not have an abundance of abortions being performed - obviously. But what it does me...an is... Eptopic pregnancies will not be ended, meaning EXTREME health consequences and possibly death for the mother (and in most cases eptopic pregnancies do NOT yeild a living baby.) It means that when 2 people who love each other find out their fetus has genetic complications that mean their baby WON'T LIVE past a year will be burdened with heartbreak that is prolonged and severe. It means that a mother with severe health complications of her own will not be given precident over a fetus and could likely die (with no indication the baby lives, either. so BOTH could die?) What it means are little girls who are molested and raped will be FORCED to live with the unfortunate consequence of someone else's crime. If YOUR OWN MOTHER was forced with the decision to die or attempt an impossible delivery, would you not want YOUR OWN MOTHER to choose her life and remain in yours? Please, remove the blinders and remove the hate and disdain. These are your mothers, sisters, daughters, girlfriends, wives, best friends, neighbors, and co-workers. If YOU do not believe in abortions, by all means NOBODY will MAKE YOU GET ONE. But PLEASE do not turn a blind eye to the woman you may have condemned to a lifetime of hardship you cannot imagine, or to the woman whose death certificate you ought to be signing with your own name.

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Farnorth Said:
OK, now I really am ticked off.  Those SOB's still won't let us buy bottle rockets.  WTF?

hahahah....fireworks are bad mmmmkay

cant drink all day unless you start in the morning.
Im only one man
GET SOME!!!!!

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right?  this baffles me... i can see an age restriction or something.  but, an all out ban... how is it we can own paintball guns, bb guns, bows, arrows, machetes, spears, blow sh7t up with tannerite, etc.... year round... but, not be able to shoot a couple bottle rockets off the back deck?  hell... we can still  have roman candles right?  and those whistling missile batteries?  and those big ass artillery shells?  but, no bottle rockets... what the flying fudgcicles! 

Farnorth Said:
OK, now I really am ticked off.  Those SOB's still won't let us buy bottle rockets.  WTF?

Born to hunt and fish... Forced to work!

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 99% of them aren't found until MUCH later than six weeks.


Chargers Said:

just read what i am posting, not all ectopic pregnancy's are found prior to six weeks. just read it.

Born to hunt and fish... Forced to work!

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dakota1977 Said:
My wife's cousin is a neo-natologist.  He saves babies as early as 22 weeks.  It makes me sick that people think it's okay to "terminate" pregnancies that would result in living babies if they were delivered.  In the case of New Jersey, it's especially abominable that they allow termination all the way to "term".  And it's all done under the guise of "choice".  It truly shows how pathetic our society has become. 

At this point, I'm not going to get caught up in all the "exceptions".  Those are a small percentage of abortions.  The health of the mother/baby accounts for around 5-6% of abortions.  Rape/incest accounts for about 1%.  I'm talking about abortion as a means of birth control.  Yes, in about 93% or so of the cases of abortion it's done for a myriad of reasons that amount to nothing more than birth control.  It's atrocious.

-Justin

I truly and honestly believe that number is low.  They are only talking about reported rape/incest.  I have no way to back my feelings up but thats what  my intuition tells me.
I would be willing to bet that number is more like 7-10% if you could actually find the info to back it up which you probably cant because of HIPAA laws.  I just dont feel like digging for it right now.   Contrary to popular belief even now there is a lot of rape/incest crimes that dont get reported.

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flycaster Said:
 Honkers, which republicans are against those entitlements you stated?  I've heard many republicans want to reform those entitlements to cut down on how much they are costing us but I don't know of any that want to completely get rid of those entitlements.  Name some names and examples of where they say they want to completely get rid of those programs.

Flycaster  Do you rember the topic on here a month or so ago about the milk program? several FBO members didnt think we should be paying for the kids milk as well as are so called elected officials who pass these abortion laws and in the same breath cut the milk programs how is that pro life?  Just as bri-guy stated most of these kids that will be saved are not going to households that can support them.

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imho... support for the child after birth and the right to life before birth are entirely different topics and mixing them together just seems like an attempt to cloud the topic/issue.  the merits of both can and should be debated separately.  

Born to hunt and fish... Forced to work!

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espringers Said:
imho... support for the child after birth and the right to life before birth are entirely different topics and mixing them together just seems like an attempt to cloud the topic/issue.  the merits of both can and should be debated separately.  

Yet, halfway around the World, China had concerns about affording the cost of a growing population (albeit in a Communist society) and they instituted their one child law and, consequently, have incredibly high rates of abortion.

We have huge concern about social costs and want to reduce abortions to essentially zero. 

There's some linkage there so entirely different might be a stretch.

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By the way... if you don't have the time to watch the entire video, or just don't care to, or whatever the reason... at least fast-forward to about the 55:45 mark and watch from there for about 10 to 15 minutes.

dakota1977 Said:
Here's a documentary on abortion that is hosted by Dr. Martin Luther King's daughter.  It's long, but for those interested, here it is:

-Justin

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At least they had the good sense to ban this crap.

-Justin

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-Justin

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-Justin

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-Justin

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feather_duster Said:

jaykay Said:
The jokes about nurseries in Heaven or Hell - jokes, are disgusting. If you don't believe in Heaven or Hell, then you BETTER be right. If I'm wrong in my beliefs, no harm no foul. If you're wrong, well, you better hope you're not.

Gonna be pretty hard to explain yourself when you're standing in front of the Almighty. You can't say it never occurred to you, that you didn't know better. Excuses won't fly then.

Again, if I'M wrong, who cares? Doesn't matter then. If YOU'RE wrong.. well, think about that.

settle down preacher

Feather Duster, actually you're right. 

I get too wound up when I think about this topic.  I can and will settle down. 

However Sir, calling me a preacher is no insult.

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