SB 2225 - No trespass bill

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SB 2225 - No trespass bill

SB 2225 will be heard in the Energy and Natural Resources committee on Friday morning. This bill is the "No Trespass Bill" which would make all private land closed to hunting and fishing without permission. This bill is in response to the DAPL protesters who are already breaking current laws. This bill will not stop that activity, it will only hinder law abiding sportsman. If you cannot attend the hearing in person please voice your opinion on the bill to the committee members below:

Chairman Jessica Unruh - jkunruh@nd.gov - 701-891-9708

Vice Chairman Curt Kreun - ckreun@nd.gov - 701-741-2612

Kelly M. Armstrong - karmstrong@nd.gov - 701-290-0447

Dwight Cook - dcook@nd.gov - 701-220-3850

Erin Oban - eoban@nd.gov - 701-955-3188

Jim Roers - jroers@nd.gov - 701-318-6300

Donald Schiable - dgschaible@nd.gov - 701-824-3168

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I had the wrong members listed. List has been updated.

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You mean it would hinder lazy road hunters who are too lazy to make a phone call, i think a law abiding sportsman would want to know for sure posted or not if the land owner wants him  on his property

Mike Hunt

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Buster Hymen wrote:

You mean it would hinder lazy road hunters who are too lazy to make a phone call, i think a law abiding sportsman would want to know for sure posted or not if the land owner wants him  on his property

Lazy road hunters probably don't care one way or the other anyway.

Some landowners don't care and don't want to be bothered.

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This bill would cause lots of calls to land owners at there busy time of year. It will also add a lot of liability to the same land owner. North Dakota has not had a tresspass law in the past and has very little trouble, it is one of the things that make us unique. I don't think many land owners are for it either as this bill comes up at least every other sesion and always gets put down.

T-Cat

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Well this land owner has no problem letting people hunt, I want to know who is hunting on my land, I shouldn't have to post my land to keep people out, do you post your in town property?? Can I come over to your house and tear up your yard just because it's not posted?? No it's called trespassing!!!

Mike Hunt

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We have it in Michigan and it sucks... It has made hunting private land a risky thing.  You must have a written permission slip or you could be prosicuted, unless the land owner accompinies you or he goes with the law enforcement officer checking on you.  The other issue that it has created is guys from the city that like to hunt get together and buy large tracts of property way up north (post the crap out of it) and only go there during deer season for (Deer Camp),, a drunk fest really.  The rest of the year they dont go there at all, but neither will they allow anyone to hunt it for small game or other deer seasons.   This really limits available land for the local guys to hunt on unless they can afford to buy their own (hunting property) .. The other issue it caused is that some guys from the city will lease large sections of farm land from the farmers for deer season then post it, and do the same thing.  The farmer can not give anyone permission to hunt it any other time because of the lease, he can farm it but that is it.  It has made a hudge mess for the sportsman in Michigan......

Always outdoors!

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Buster Hymen wrote:

Well this land owner has no problem letting people hunt, I want to know who is hunting on my land, I shouldn't have to post my land to keep people out, do you post your in town property?? Can I come over to your house and tear up your yard just because it's not posted?? No it's called trespassing!!!

All I can say is make your opinion known by contacting the legislatures. Like I said others feel differently then you do that's why everyone needs to let the legislators know what they think. If I was fortunate to own some land, posting it would be the least of my worries.

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That's been going on here for years!!  

Mike Hunt

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You try keeping 2500 acres posted!!  First off you got asshole road hunters ripping signs off the post and saying it's not posted! Then you got the pricks that hunt it and tell you it's illegally posted cause you didn't sign it right!! 

Mike Hunt

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I've never turned anyone down that has come to my door and asked permission! Most of my neighbors feel the same way, We just like to know who is on our property 

Mike Hunt

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I can totally understand where you are coming from and I'd feel the same way. If I had land I would certainly post it to control access. Like I said not everyone feels the same way. I know at least 4-5 landowners who have 1,000's of acres and they don't want to deal with people asking permission non stop. They post their farmsteads and don't care if people hunt the rest of their land. I also know many non-resident landowners who do not want to be bothered and don't care what people are doing on their property. I also know a few rancher's who would be pissed if a coyote got away because somebody had to track them down for permission to shoot it.

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There are deff  advantages and disadvantages to both sides... for both parties!!   Personaly I would prefere to know who is on my property too, for liability reasons, allot of sue happy people in the world!!!!! And allot of dirt bags runing around...

Always outdoors!

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Well then the very few people that don't post cause they don't want to be bothered should put up some please hunt my land signs!!!!  

Mike Hunt

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MI Doug wrote:

There are deff  advantages and disadvantages to both sides... for both parties!!   Personaly I would prefere to know who is on my property too, for liability reasons, allot of sue happy people in the world!!!!! And allot of dirt bags runing around...

Which is precisely why ND's current law exempts landowners who don't post their property from being liable. If this bill passes as soon as the landowner gives permission they will be liable for anything that happens. 

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Without having to buy and put up 100 signs it's easy enough when they come to my house for ritten permission to hunt my land, sign my name and put not responsible for accidents

Mike Hunt

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I know for you non land owners you look at this as a big inconvenience but for land owners it's a big plus, if your a law abiding hunter you shouldn't have a problem getting permission first!  I hunt other lands as well and I make sure to talk to the owners long before season starts, we do appreciate face to face, I appreciate hunters that have the balls to stop in and ask

Mike Hunt

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Not true at all. Landowners can't be held liable for injury on their property whether they grant permission or not. It's covered in the NDCC.

In reference to ND Sportsmans post regarding liability.

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Keep in mind if this passes the landowner still needs to sign a complaint against a trespasser.  The game warden isn't going to automatically walk up and charge someone just because he sees them hunting.  Not much will change in that regard.

    I noticed a couple posts stating that they own 1000's of acres that they have to post.  WHY?  Likely less than half on average is good hunting land.  Just post that and save yourself some effort and just post what acres are worth the trouble.  I've seen field with the closest thing to habitat on them are the power poles and the little bit of grass around them. 

  Also I would invite everyone to take a look at some county atlases.  There are many sections with multiple landowners and many don't live in the area much less ND.  How does one reasonabaly expect to find them.  This isn't Montana where you might find one landowner who owns as far as you can see.  At least is isn't near as common.  People would be driving the people at the county offices nuts looking up info for contact. 

 

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Landowner - Sportsmen relationship played a very large role in creating the landowner gratis tag program. The hope was that this program would open some gates for the sportsmen of North Dakota. The passing of this bill would make those gates very hard to find, if you could find them at all. If this bill passes, we should be looking at removing the landowner gratis program as it would no longer be much of a benenfit to the Sportsmen of our state.

 

 

"If you are not working to protect hunting, then you are working to destroy it.” Fred Bear

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Just think of this coyote running 150 yards off the road heading to work!  Sorry land is posted! 

 

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Just think I'm on my way to work and I stop a take a crap on your porch, sorry it's not posted!

Mike Hunt

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~~FEW THINGS THAT BOTHER ME
The landowner post there land and then don't hunt it. But they go and hunt some other land owners land some open and some posted. But then cry to everyone that the deer are ruining the hay bales or coyotes are killing the cattle. Umm maybe take your posted signs down so the deer and coyote can be hunted. But instead calling game and fish about the problem. You can’t have the best of both worlds.
 

How lazy hunters are getting, never see many walking to get a deer anymore but rather road hunting in the morning and evening. In my area that I hunt, I walk for my deer and more than not someone drives down the road and sees me walking and they sit on the hillside just waiting for me to push deer to them.

I have land posted and try to hunt that land to harvest my deer. I don't post it for a storage unit. I have caught three people on this posted land and the truth is they have all been farmers in the area that have lots of land and it’s all posted.

Also have seen lots where they post the quarter along the roadway but not the back side that connects to another landowner’s property. So if I walk from the other side there is no way of knowing it’s posted. What I am saying is there is a proper way to post your land and should be done if you don’t want anyone on there. And just so you know I do have land and have it posted. In a 1 quarter of land. I have a sign on each corner and one in the middle all the way around (way more than needed) reason being I don’t want anyone on it. I sign, date, and put my phone number on it every year. Can you imagine if they say all land is no hunting unless the landowner puts a sign saying you can hunt it? They can’t post properly now and they don’t want you on their land. Do you really think any landowner is going to post a sign hunt here?
I think they just need to perfect the current law they have. They should make it that the NO HUNTING sign is signed, dated, and placed properly.

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I listened to a radio conversation two weeks ago between a Farm Bureau Board member and a Western area rancher.  Had the FB person done some research before going on the air, he may not have totally humiliated himself.  First, do not compare ND to Monana.  36% of Montana is in public land,  that would be about 75% of ND.  Do not compare ND to SD.  SD is a comercialized state, and I wonder how land owners in ND would view having road right of ways open to small game hunting.  What we do need to recognize is that the current state laws make us special.  Yes there are issues.  But think about this.  They mentioned hunters obtaining plat books to find landowners. About 62% of ND ag land is not farmed or ranched by the owner.  That means that the hunter with a plat book will be calling the wrong person two out of three times.  Also, most landowners who rent are older people who do not even live in the area anymore.  Within two miles of me, the owners of the rented land are from 6 to 155 miles away.  That is why it is so logical to have signs with names and phone numbers.

This issue has been a reoccurring bill for a long time, and according to former FB board members, is a pet peave of a select few within the organization.  The FB member even failed to research the ND CCC codes protecting landowners who allow non paid access.  Again, a bad bill.   

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Speaking of SD current trespass laws, I had the opportunity last week to listen to a SD legislater speaking about the new law proposed for SD big game tags. In that any landowner of at least 640 acres would recieve two deer tags to do as they saw fit with them, as long as they were used on land owned and or leased by that farmer.  The farmer could sell them for a profit if they so desired.  This would supposedly help defray the cost of lost hay.   The comments made were that the public does not own the deer, the land owner does.  Also stated was the amount of deer feeding on farmers limited hay due to the deep snow conditions.  Of course,  the fact the deer are there because of the current hunting leasing going was not the issue.  Trophy hunting locking up land is no way to manage a deer herd unless you are willilng to feed the deer all year long.  SD has even gone to a late season doe hunt to attempt to combat the lack of deer being harvested.  Wanat to bet they would not be antlerless tags.  That would be for the public to come in on a special hunt to clean up the mess.  We do not know how good we have it in ND, as hunters or as landowners.   

 

 

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Buster Hymen wrote:

Well this land owner has no problem letting people hunt, I want to know who is hunting on my land, I shouldn't have to post my land to keep people out, do you post your in town property?? Can I come over to your house and tear up your yard just because it's not posted?? No it's called trespassing!!!

If its not posted, its not trespassing.  Sorry. That's the law.  Deal with it.

If you were a badminton ace, I think this would be a good bumper sticker:  "Suck my Shuttlecock" 

 

 

 

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Buster Hymen wrote:

Just think I'm on my way to work and I stop a take a crap on your porch, sorry it's not posted!

 

Sorry, brainiac.  Not legal. Figure it out. ;)

If you were a badminton ace, I think this would be a good bumper sticker:  "Suck my Shuttlecock" 

 

 

 

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Buster Hymen wrote:

You mean it would hinder lazy road hunters who are too lazy to make a phone call, i think a law abiding sportsman would want to know for sure posted or not if the land owner wants him  on his property

 

Don't forget the lazy stand hunters.  Who would be so lazy as to sit in a stand waiting for the deer to come to them. Go out and get after them on foot!   Quit being lazy!!!  Nothing makes people more mad than seeing lazy stand hunters. 

If you were a badminton ace, I think this would be a good bumper sticker:  "Suck my Shuttlecock" 

 

 

 

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If they want this to pass they should do it with a sunset clause.  If everything works out then pass it permanently, but I think it's going to cause a lot of problems.  So far I see people talking about hunters and landowners.  I will predict if we call the game and fish and get the number of hunting license it will be down significantly.  I'll have to give up coyote hunting.  I would walk ten miles a day when I was younger, but I'm within weeks of 69 years old.  Three knee surgeries, a stent in the heart, and meds to make my heart beat.  So now I am one of those terrible road hunters.  Not by choice, but it's the only thing I can do.  I wait for cold weather and a west wind then go out and drive north south roads looking west for coyotes laying out of the wind at sunrise.  I doubt they will be in the same spot for hours while I try find a landowner.  I find it hard to find landowners when they post.  If it becomes automatically posted I wasted a lot of money on a 4X4 pickup.  I wasted money on a Toyota FJ Cruiser, I wasted money on a Polaris Ranger.  Not to mention predator rifles, range finders, etc.  I have talked to auto dealers and they say most of their 4X4 vehicles go to farmers and hunters.  It's going to cost them. 

This bill punishes everyone for a few jerks protesting.  I see one of the legislators compares hunters to the pipeline protesters.  Nice. 

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I can count too potato!!!

Mike Hunt

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This bill wont pass.  It barely made it out of committee.  Its a bad bill.  Other than a few select land owners looking to pad thier pockets, nobody in SD supports this, especially sportsmen.  SD already has programs in place to deal with depredation.

 

 

 

 

Speaking of SD current trespass laws, I had the opportunity last week to listen to a SD legislater speaking about the new law proposed for SD big game tags. In that any landowner of at least 640 acres would recieve two deer tags to do as they saw fit with them, as long as they were used on land owned and or leased by that farmer.  The farmer could sell them for a profit if they so desired.  This would supposedly help defray the cost of lost hay.   The comments made were that the public does not own the deer, the land owner does.  Also stated was the amount of deer feeding on farmers limited hay due to the deep snow conditions.  Of course,  the fact the deer are there because of the current hunting leasing going was not the issue.  Trophy hunting locking up land is no way to manage a deer herd unless you are willilng to feed the deer all year long.  SD has even gone to a late season doe hunt to attempt to combat the lack of deer being harvested.  Wanat to bet they would not be antlerless tags.  That would be for the public to come in on a special hunt to clean up the mess.  We do not know how good we have it in ND, as hunters or as landowners.   

 

 

[/quote]

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What was the committee vote on it?

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The committe vote was 7-6.  with one of the original sponsors of the bill voting no. 

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Haha thats different!

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walleyepike1976 wrote:

The committe vote was 7-6.  with one of the original sponsors of the bill voting no. 

Where you find that info.? It appears to me there's only a total of 7 on the committee??

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All I can find on the legislature's website is that it was introduced and assigned to the senate energy and natural resources committee. It is a seven member committee and was supposed to meet February 3rd at 9:00 AM. Cannot find any other action on it. The committee meets Thursday and Friday. The Game and Fish website has the same info, but lists it as active with no action taken by the committee.

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This is in reference to the South Dakota bill that was mentioned above not the North Dakota bill

Here is a link.  Hopefully it works for you. 

http://www.sdlegislature.gov/Legislative_Session/Bills/Bill.aspx?Bill=1094&Session=2017

 

Looks like it failed on the House floor today.

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That is a South Dakota link. The original post is about North Dakota Senate Bill 2225, the No Trespassing bill, which has not been acted on in committee. I see where the original thread got a hijacked with other state issues and comparisons, but it did start as a North Dakota topic.

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I wasnt Hijacking just trying to clarify for Z and Dean what was going on with the SD bill.  It is basically dead.

 

As far as SB 2225 goes I hope it doesnt pass for ND sportsmen.  The extra hunting opportunities that you get in Nodak from your current system is really nice.  Unfortunately those that abuse it ruin it for everyone thats why these bills keep popping up.

 

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All this woud do is take away a big chunk of income from the G and F on out of state licence sales and also take away a lot of commerce from the whole state. People who trespass will still trespass and the Coyotes and Snow geese will be rampant. Leave it alone. Post your land if you dont want anyone on it. Not all landowners/renters want it posted nor do they want to be bothered all the time or have coyotes and snow geese runing wild.

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For years I was opposed to this idea, but I have changed my mind. We need not complicate this issue. It is a private property issue. The burden should not rest on the landowner to post their property. If it's not yours, get permission to be on it. Otherwise, stay off.

Many of the comments I see and hear on this issue are EXACTLY the reason this legislation is being proposed. Too many - including outdoorsman - feel they have a right to be on other people's property. That is insane. It may be true that it will not stop the law breakers. After all, they ignore laws regardless... that's why they're law breakers. Nevertheless, it sure as heck will make it easier to prosecute them.

I realize that the NODAPL protests are something that is very uncommon, but the reality is that the folks of Morton County should not have to post their land to tell a trespasser to stay off. Nobody should. Some of those landowners had their signs ripped down as fast as they went up and this made it difficult for law enforcement to prosecute for trespassing. If you will recall, this is why some of them were charged with "inciting riots", etc. in court instead of trespassing, because law enforcement was going to have such a difficult time making the trespassing charges stick. That shouldn't happen.

NODAPL is not the only example of this. Landowners throughout North Dakota have difficulty with people taking down their signs. Then people claim ignorance when they are caught on the land. This law removes that excuse of ignorance.

Look, do I like it that we've come to this point in North Dakota's history? Nope, I don't. This is not the North Dakota I grew up in. In my neck of the woods, the posted property FAR outweighs the non-posted. Pass the bill and flip it around... you want on the land, then go get permission.

After all, how would you feel if a car load of guys pulled up to your house, bailed out, and went to have a BBQ in your back yard. I'm guessing you wouldn't like it, nor should you. And you shouldn't have to have a sign telling them not to either.

What will it do to hunting in the long run? It may not be good. But I think these things work themselves out. Over time the wildlife populations will benefit. Those properties that are no longer accessible will become havens for wildlife. Populations in some areas will increase, which will put pressure on the landowners to actually allow hunting. It'll be a good opportunity for the Game & Fish to respond with complaints by saying, "Do you allow hunting on your property?"

Support private property rights and pass this bill.

-Justin

-Justin

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yesyesyesyesyes

dakota1977 wrote:

For years I was opposed to this idea, but I have changed my mind. We need not complicate this issue. It is a private property issue. The burden should not rest on the landowner to post their property. If it's not yours, get permission to be on it. Otherwise, stay off.

Many of the comments I see and hear on this issue are EXACTLY the reason this legislation is being proposed. Too many - including outdoorsman - feel they have a right to be on other people's property. That is insane. It may be true that it will not stop the law breakers. After all, they ignore laws regardless... that's why they're law breakers. Nevertheless, it sure as heck will make it easier to prosecute them.

I realize that the NODAPL protests are something that is very uncommon, but the reality is that the folks of Morton County should not have to post their land to tell a trespasser to stay off. Nobody should. Some of those landowners had their signs ripped down as fast as they went up and this made it difficult for law enforcement to prosecute for trespassing. If you will recall, this is why some of them were charged with "inciting riots", etc. in court instead of trespassing, because law enforcement was going to have such a difficult time making the trespassing charges stick. That shouldn't happen.

NODAPL is not the only example of this. Landowners throughout North Dakota have difficulty with people taking down their signs. Then people claim ignorance when they are caught on the land. This law removes that excuse of ignorance.

Look, do I like it that we've come to this point in North Dakota's history? Nope, I don't. This is not the North Dakota I grew up in. In my neck of the woods, the posted property FAR outweighs the non-posted. Pass the bill and flip it around... you want on the land, then go get permission.

After all, how would you feel if a car load of guys pulled up to your house, bailed out, and went to have a BBQ in your back yard. I'm guessing you wouldn't like it, nor should you. And you shouldn't have to have a sign telling them not to either.

What will it do to hunting in the long run? It may not be good. But I think these things work themselves out. Over time the wildlife populations will benefit. Those properties that are no longer accessible will become havens for wildlife. Populations in some areas will increase, which will put pressure on the landowners to actually allow hunting. It'll be a good opportunity for the Game & Fish to respond with complaints by saying, "Do you allow hunting on your property?"

Support private property rights and pass this bill.

-Justin

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​I am a landowner and I don't post my land and I want hunters to hunt on my land.  The legislature/trasspass bill is taking away my property right to have hunters on my property whenever they want to be there.  Farmers who want hunters on their land have property rights too.  This is just government over-reach.  I don't want a bunch of phone calls from hunters asking permission because the legislature closes my property for hunting or fishing.  The legislature should stay out of this completelyThere must be something more important to do than taking away my property rights.

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Ha ha ha!!  I've never heard a  land owner say he wants hunters on his land! Why don't you put up some please hunt my land signs then you won't get any calls!!

Mike Hunt

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pbultsma I think all you would have to do is put your name address and phone number on this site and all your problems would be taken care of, and you wouldn't have to worry about the government again being involved

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Thank you very much Pbaltsmall! You are not the only one. 

It is so easy to post your land but it will never be easy to keep the poachers off no matter what laws are on it. Do you people really think illegal protestors give a rip about laws? That is like saying more gun control will reduce gun crime, its stupid, laws can only go so far. 

I have the app that shows all landowners names. No phone numbers though and half the time the landowners live out of state. 

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I got my Doe off an unposted field last season. The Farmer drove by just as I was driving out and waved to me, never talked to him. 

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I shot my buck on posted land, I actually got my fat ass out of the pickup and knocked on a door and asked for permission to hunt

Mike Hunt

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GREENHORN
Joined: 3/9/09

Ya don't need to put up "please hunt my land" signs.  If ya don't put up posted signs, its open to hunt.  Thank you!

If you were a badminton ace, I think this would be a good bumper sticker:  "Suck my Shuttlecock" 

 

 

 

Buster Hymen's picture
Buster Hymen
Offline
GREENHORN
Joined: 12/8/16

Hey little arms!!  You'd be singing a different tune if you actually owned land instead of being a drive around all day douche 

Mike Hunt

Hardwaterman's picture
Hardwaterman
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GREENHORN
Joined: 11/6/02

Again and again we hear the sound of trophy hunters complaints. First off, I own land don't post and wont. One reason is I live a couple hours away and I am not listed in the directory.

Some of the land I deer hunt besides my own is owned by people out of state. Sent letters made phone calls etc to speak to them. Took a lot of time and effort and because I am from the area I also had contacts to locate them. These people for the most part where annoyed being bothered. I explained that I like to have permission to avoid issues.

One area I hunt waterfowl in has 63% absentee landowners. Some of the ground is posted by the operators, even locating them can be a challenge. This bill will affect waterfowl hunters more than anyone and is also going to create conflicts with operators and hunters that secured permission. Dealt with it this fall. New operator upset that we where hunting his deer.

My question is has the fiscal note been issued on this? 30 long time travelers for waterfowl will not come again. Now some may cheer that, but as I aged I realized those dollars mean a lot in rural ND. Bar and Grill operators say that this is critical cash flow for them. Others it is rental income that helps make ends meet.

Yet other factors are property in small towns. Many would be vacant eyesore owned by the county or city. Instead they are seasonal homes with taxes being collected services being provided. These are way bigger issues and economic impact and more important than trophy deer period.

In my lifetime I have seen fence row to fence row farming and the return of CRP and game to the landscape.Now we face again the prosepect of fence row to fence row again! Sportsman are our own worst enemy in that we fail to look forward and focus to much on the now!

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