Shanley baseball coach of 14 years says contract not renewed due to parent complaint about text message

As a parent of a young baseball player, I am appalled.

I think the message that the Coach sent out is awesome and struck a nerve.

FARGO – When the Fargo Shanley baseball team hits the field this spring, it will do so with a new coach.

Joel Swanson, who started the Deacons program in 1999, was informed by school administrators Monday that his coaching contract would not be renewed for the 2014 season.

According to Swanson, the reason for the nonrenewal is a complaint from a parent of one of the players in the Shanley program regarding a text message he sent to players last week regarding preparations for the upcoming season.

Swanson told The Forum that he met with Shanley activities director Randy Nelson and Dr. Michael Smith, the Superintendent of Blessed John Paul II Catholic Schools Network of Fargo on Monday to discuss the text message. In the meeting, Swanson said he was told a complaint had been issued by a parent.

“They told me the text message was considered threatening in tone and wording,” Swanson said. “They went on to say that it violated Shanley’s values and that my contract would not be renewed.”

Nelson confirmed Wednesday that Swanson’s contract was not renewed, but declined to comment on what prompted the decision, citing the matter as a personnel issue.

Swanson, who teaches alternative education at Cheney Middle School in West Fargo, coached 14 seasons with the Deacons and was coming off of a 10-12 season in which Shanley won the North Dakota Class A state championship.

Defending that championship is what prompted Swanson to send his players the text message.

Swanson provided The Forum a letter he sent Nelson and Dr. Smith in response to his dismissal, which included what he says is the transcript of the text message he sent to the players.

The text goes into great length about Swanson’s expectations for the 2014 season and his displeasure with players having poor attendance at non-mandatory open gym sessions.

“We are two months into open gyms and obviously all of you are satisfied with last year’s title,” the message reads. “We are the team that will have a target on our backs. We are the team that everyone throws their ace against. We are the team everyone wants to beat this year. I am sick of stupid excuses to not come to open gym. … If you want to be an athlete commit to it. One hour a week is not too much to ask if you want to be an athlete.

“If you make an excuse not to come then you are telling me what kind of athlete you are. I cannot require you to come but I thought I would have a group excited to try and defend a title. Not to make excuses and not care. Some of you are not even in a sport right now, which is even more pathetic. … I will not send out another message like this, but some of you may be in for a rude awakening when the season comes and you are not in the lineup due to a younger player that puts in the time.”

The Class A baseball season opens March 17, with the first contests scheduled for March 28.

Swanson has received hundreds of emails and text messages of support following the decision, which he cites as unjust due to the lack of opportunity to defend himself.

Swanson said he was afforded no challenge to the complaint nor was he allowed to meet – in a mediated setting – with the parent that issued the complaint, which he considers to be standard practice.

“It seems like something is missing here,” Swanson said. “If they want me to step down from my position, then fine, but it was done in an unprofessional way. I was released without ever being able to talk to this parent. I wasn’t able to defend myself as far as what the content of the text message was.”

In May of 2013, Minnesota passed a law preventing parent complaints as being the sole reason for a board to not renew a coaching contract in its high schools. No similar legislation exists in North Dakota.

“It is just too bad,” Swanson said. “We have a large senior class this year and they are a good group of kids. We didn’t have the best record in the regular season last year, but they were fun to coach. … It is tough to leave that. As a coach you want to help kids and share your knowledge, but there always is somebody who seems to think that is not good enough or they can do better.”

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 A snickers bar and a can of coke?

 Life is tough.....It's even tougher when you are stupid.

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Quincy05 Said:

Ice _Fishing_Pro Said:
 I'm a Shanley grad, and Shanley is a joke. I hope the kid quits an is embarrassed for bringin the text to his parents, just shows he's a coward, an the parent or parents are bigger cowards for goin to the school about their kid not wanting to get better at something. His dad must have sucked at sports to if he didn't wana kick his kids ass for not goin. Straight up pussys in my mind. Makes me wonder what the parents are thinkin when the coach yells at em when they are in season?? Wtf. Wake up. So u can't tell me the parents haven't yelled at or pushed their kid to better himself. This had turned into a joke

Jesus, no wonder the kid/parents haven't come forward.

no kidding, they should have just taken a baseball bat down and clubbed the coach so as to not be called pusses.  WTF is wrong with ex-jocks?   One too many sniffs of Tinactin? 

“Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it.” ~ Mark Twain

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huntorride365 Said:

Quincy05 Said:

There is a difference between a good strict coach that is respectful and a coach that is just a prick. I fail to see how insulting your high school players during the off season is setting them up for life and a future job. I've yet to have my supervisor publicly insult me for a project I'm not involved in. Guess coaches aren't as needed as people think.

Just makes me wonder why people think respect and toughness are mutually exclusive. You don't have to be an asshole to suddenly not be labeled a "pussy". Allowing kids to have a life outside of sports isn't going to inherently cause your team to lose. I would venture a guess that the off season last year did little to nothing to cause them to win the title, after having a losing record in the season. I'd be curious what the NDHSAA has to say about his text in terms of coaching off season work outs.

You can tell he's a prick from the text? I had coaches that were hard asses when they needed to be. Thank them everyday, kept alot of us out of trouble. Taught alot of us how to work as a team. They taught us more about working together than any HS class.

From the text and subsequent Facebook message, yes.

I had coaches that were hard asses too and yet they still treated players with respect and didn't complain about coddling parents when they crossed a line (which they  I didn't). I also had coaches that weren't hard asses who taught me far more about life than anything the few prick coaches did. Just because fear is the easiest tool to use, doesn't mean it's the correct one. You can be hard nosed and teach kids to work as a team without being disrespectful and insulting. Especially during off season voluntary work outs.

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Allen Said:

Quincy05 Said:

Ice _Fishing_Pro Said:
 I'm a Shanley grad, and Shanley is a joke. I hope the kid quits an is embarrassed for bringin the text to his parents, just shows he's a coward, an the parent or parents are bigger cowards for goin to the school about their kid not wanting to get better at something. His dad must have sucked at sports to if he didn't wana kick his kids ass for not goin. Straight up pussys in my mind. Makes me wonder what the parents are thinkin when the coach yells at em when they are in season?? Wtf. Wake up. So u can't tell me the parents haven't yelled at or pushed their kid to better himself. This had turned into a joke

Jesus, no wonder the kid/parents haven't come forward.

no kidding, they should have just taken a baseball bat down and clubbed the coach so as to not be called pusses.  WTF is wrong with ex-jocks?   One too many sniffs of Tinactin? 

Damn good question.

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Aren't you an ex-jock Al? 

Allen Said:

Quincy05 Said:

Ice _Fishing_Pro Said:
 I'm a Shanley grad, and Shanley is a joke. I hope the kid quits an is embarrassed for bringin the text to his parents, just shows he's a coward, an the parent or parents are bigger cowards for goin to the school about their kid not wanting to get better at something. His dad must have sucked at sports to if he didn't wana kick his kids ass for not goin. Straight up pussys in my mind. Makes me wonder what the parents are thinkin when the coach yells at em when they are in season?? Wtf. Wake up. So u can't tell me the parents haven't yelled at or pushed their kid to better himself. This had turned into a joke

Jesus, no wonder the kid/parents haven't come forward.

no kidding, they should have just taken a baseball bat down and clubbed the coach so as to not be called pusses.  WTF is wrong with ex-jocks?   One too many sniffs of Tinactin? 

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Surprising there are enough kids that can go to basic any more if this hurt there feelings.  DI's are not very understanding about feelings and such but I guess it is now the world we live in.  Every ones a winner and just trying is good enough

 Adn

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curtikins_bac Said:
Aren't you an ex-jock Al? 

No, there is a hell of a difference between someone who is simply successful at sporting competitions and someone who feels the need to put it on their chest and prance around like some prima donna with a new skirt.

I sure hope you already knew that and were just looking to start an argument. 

“Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it.” ~ Mark Twain

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KurtR Said:

Surprising there are enough kids that can go to basic any more if this hurt there feelings.  DI's are not very understanding about feelings and such but I guess it is now the world we live in.  Every ones a winner and just trying is good enough

I think it is painfully obvious that you just don't "get it" when it comes to why people like quincy and I disagree with the tactics of this coach.

I didn't have such an abrasive coach in any sport, and quite honestly didn't need it.  After watching both of my kids tonight and the way they responded to a coach that can command respect without such tactics, I remain even more steadfast in that this kind of crap isn't necessary.  At least, it wasn't for me, and certainly doesn't appear necessary for my kids.

Maybe it was for you, and is for yours.  If so, I have great sympathy for ya.  It just doesn't have to be that way.

Semper Fi

“Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it.” ~ Mark Twain

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Quincy05 Said:

Old Jake Said:
Next time my boss tells me I need to put in a little more time and do some more work is it ok if have my mom call the governor to complain?

  Next time your boss calls you pathetic and threatens you based on something you can't control, feel free to go to HR and file a harassment claim. Though that still isn't equivalent because these kids are far from getting paid for what they do, let alone what they do during the off season. So... if an ex-coworker harasses and threatens you over a project you worked on long ago, feel free to go to his boss and complain.

Had the coach just asked for a little more effort amongst the team, I doubt we would even know about the text.

Something I can't control? I don't exactly follow. Are you saying it's ok if I just decided not to show up for work because I don't want to go? Do you have inside information on the situation? You seem to be quite invested? Please give us the rest of the story.

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I bet if someone were to post for every great high school coach that teaches kids the fundamentals and techniques of a sport, work ethic, sportsmanship and love of the game there is at least one ex player that is trying to relive their glory days thru their players and accomplish what they never did that kids tolerate so they can play sports, this thread could make 20!

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 It'll make 20 in a hurry if Quincy05 doesn't shut up.  

gst Said:
I bet if someone were to post for every great high school coach that teaches kids the fundamentals and techniques of a sport, work ethic, sportsmanship and love of the game there is at least one ex player that is trying to relive their glory days thru their players and accomplish what they never did that kids tolerate so they can play sports, this thread could make 20!
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Al, I'm not trying to irritate you.  You have a strong opinion on EVERYTHING and that's great, but something about this topic really got you revved. .  Care to expound?  

Allen Said:

curtikins_bac Said:
Aren't you an ex-jock Al? 

No, there is a hell of a difference between someone who is simply successful at sporting competitions and someone who feels the need to put it on their chest and prance around like some prima donna with a new skirt.

I sure hope you already knew that and were just looking to start an argument. 

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 Based on what has been presented i would say it was handled wrong by the administration but i do put some trust in their decision.  I assume they must have the experience and wisdom to make right decisions.  What they were hire for.
However overall i guess i will side with Alan and Quincy.  So go for it.

I did not take part in sports in high school however i wanted to.  But there was work to do on the farm and that is were my father wanted and needed me and that is were i went after school.
I learn about life, being a part of society, contributing and going beyond just pitching crab and stones on the stone boat from my parents and not a coach.
In fact i was kind proud of how i could put such a big pile of crab on the stone boat.  Proud of the way i made a haystack.  Even proud of the way i did the summer fallow.  Could milk a cow by hand with the best of them.  At times would sit with my father at the end of the day and just look over what we had done for the day.  No words said.
4-h was a big part of my life.  I learn i did not need my father to tell me what needed to be done next as he expected me to know what next to do.
At age 12 i had my drivers license and my first car (52 buick for 50 dollars).  Part of the rewards i got.  Then he bought me a 56 buick, 57 mercury, 58 buick, 65 impala super sport and when i came home from overseas a brand new 68 olds.  Paid for my four years of college.  Did make up for lost time in Fargo from 64-68.  And then i left home. Served my country and have work every day since and been part of every community i, my wife and family have lived in.
Life was good and i never did get to an open gym, prom, class play.  Yes life was good and would not trade it for all the sports.  As that the way it was.  db


Db

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 Kudos db.

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KurtR Said:

Surprising there are enough kids that can go to basic any more if this hurt there feelings.  DI's are not very understanding about feelings and such but I guess it is now the world we live in.  Every ones a winner and just trying is good enough

I get your point kurt, but one is preparing young men to kill someone or try not to get killed themselves and one is teaching a kid how to play ball.

Believe me, my kids would tell you I don't take any whiney ass crap from them when they are expected to do things and commit their time to sports. They know they are not to waste their coaches and team mates time by not putting all their effort into what they do.

I am alright with toughening kids up a bit and having whiney ass parents take a hike.

Had more than one basketball hit me in the back of the head in practice for screwing off back in the day never had a problem with it back then (knew if I did I would get tuned up at home for screwing around)  and I might not have much of a problem with a coach waking up one of my kids with a whack to the helmet if it is deserved and needed.

Nor do I believe everyone should be rewarded equally and that hard work should get you somewhere and be rewarded.

I had a very successful coach (not only in w's and l's but in gaining kids lifelong respect) tell me once you simply can not handle every kid the same. Ages, personalities backgrounds, home life  ect,... all play into it. You can't handle a freshman playing varsity the same way you handle a senior. ect...

Some kids families can not afford them going to "voluntary" practices. (where some kids in our school  live  it is $10 bucks every time the kid drives to town(co op = miles) Some kids are working jobs. Lots of different reasons and circumstances to take into consideration.

I really know nothing about this particular situation and my comments are not directed towards it, more towards experiences watching a few years of high school sports. But when people suggest a coach has to yell and throw things and be a jackass to be "respected" by the kids he coaches, as some have on here, it makes one think abit.

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Db,   you're the man  

Db Said:
 Based on what has been presented i would say it was handled wrong by the administration but i do put some trust in their decision.  I assume they must have the experience and wisdom to make right decisions.  What they were hire for.
However overall i guess i will side with Alan and Quincy.  So go for it.

I did not take part in sports in high school however i wanted to.  But there was work to do on the farm and that is were my father wanted and needed me and that is were i went after school.
I learn about life, being a part of society, contributing and going beyond just pitching crab and stones on the stone boat from my parents and not a coach.
In fact i was kind proud of how i could put such a big pile of crab on the stone boat.  Proud of the way i made a haystack.  Even proud of the way i did the summer fallow.  Could milk a cow by hand with the best of them.  At times would sit with my father at the end of the day and just look over what we had done for the day.  No words said.
4-h was a big part of my life.  I learn i did not need my father to tell me what needed to be done next as he expected me to know what next to do.
At age 12 i had my drivers license and my first car (52 buick for 50 dollars).  Part of the rewards i got.  Then he bought me a 56 buick, 57 mercury, 58 buick, 65 impala super sport and when i came home from overseas a brand new 68 olds.  Paid for my four years of college.  Did make up for lost time in Fargo from 64-68.  And then i left home. Served my country and have work every day since and been part of every community i, my wife and family have lived in.
Life was good and i never did get to an open gym, prom, class play.  Yes life was good and would not trade it for all the sports.  As that the way it was.  db


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 Oh boy. I think I agree with gst. Since that means the world is ending, this thread will never make 20 pages. 

gst Said:

KurtR Said:

Surprising there are enough kids that can go to basic any more if this hurt there feelings.  DI's are not very understanding about feelings and such but I guess it is now the world we live in.  Every ones a winner and just trying is good enough

I get your point kurt, but one is preparing young men to kill someone or try not to get killed themselves and one is teaching a kid how to play ball.

Believe me, my kids would tell you I don't take any whiney ass crap from them when they are expected to do things and commit their time to sports. They know they are not to waste their coaches and team mates time by not putting all their effort into what they do.

I am alright with toughening kids up a bit and having whiney ass parents take a hike.

Had more than one basketball hit me in the back of the head in practice for screwing off back in the day never had a problem with it back then (knew if I did I would get tuned up at home for screwing around)  and I might not have much of a problem with a coach waking up one of my kids with a whack to the helmet if it is deserved and needed.

Nor do I believe everyone should be rewarded equally and that hard work should get you somewhere and be rewarded.

I had a very successful coach (not only in w's and l's but in gaining kids lifelong respect) tell me once you simply can not handle every kid the same. Ages, personalities backgrounds, home life  ect,... all play into it. You can't handle a freshman playing varsity the same way you handle a senior. ect...

Some kids families can not afford them going to "voluntary" practices. (where some kids in our school  live  it is $10 bucks every time the kid drives to town(co op = miles) Some kids are working jobs. Lots of different reasons and circumstances to take into consideration.

I really know nothing about this particular situation and my comments are not directed towards it, more towards experiences watching a few years of high school sports. But when people suggest a coach has to yell and throw things and be a jackass to be "respected" by the kids he coaches, as some have on here, it makes one think abit.


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curtikins_bac Said:
Al, I'm not trying to irritate you.  You have a strong opinion on EVERYTHING and that's great, but something about this topic really got you revved. .  Care to expound?  

No irritation or offense taken. 

I just don't like a-holes.  This coach's text smacks of assholishness.  I would have had great reservations about playing for such a coach (thankfully, I have not).  Similarly, as my kids are now in the sports playing age, I don't look forward to people treating them like Shiite simply because they think it's their God given right/duty as a coach to do so.  If the sport has a Bobby Knight for a coach, my advice would be to go elsewhere or do something else.  Regrettably, with a HS coach, the kids aren't given that choice if they desire to play a particular sport.  So I have a tempered expectation of the level of crap they should have to put up with for recreational athletics.  And in the end, that's the bottom line here...these are recreational sports, not the proving ground for entrance to MLB.

I had pretty good success in multiple sports without being treated like crap by authority figures.  It's just not a necessary tactic if the person knows how to command respect by actions vs. a loud voice.

Oh, and you are right.  I do tend to have a strong opinion on many topics.  There are, however, a pretty good majority of the topics on this site that I have neither the knowledge base, or a strong opinion on, to warrant weighing in on the topic in the manner I have on this one.  In that sense, your observation may be a bit skewed if we have similar interests.  Note, I haven't even read the White Wine topic, nor weighed in on the recent Minot School Bond thread.  Just not my areas.

“Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it.” ~ Mark Twain

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 If they can afford to go to shanley they can afford to go to open gym. 

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 It's always a two way street, some people need wake up calls to put in effort, in sure the whole team got the text and the ones who it pertained to knew deep down they've messed up. A coach shouldn't be an asshole but they shouldn't be a best friend either. They should be respected and also respect players. I can see where it pushed buttons but it should, someone needed a fire lit under their ass and he did it. And I'm assuming a parent of a senior wasn't happy Johnny might not play.

Allen Said:

curtikins_bac Said:
Al, I'm not trying to irritate you.  You have a strong opinion on EVERYTHING and that's great, but something about this topic really got you revved. .  Care to expound?  

No irritation or offense taken. 

I just don't like a-holes.  This coach's text smacks of assholishness.  I would have had great reservations about playing for such a coach (thankfully, I have not).  Similarly, as my kids are now in the sports playing age, I don't look forward to people treating them like Shiite simply because they think it's their God given right/duty as a coach to do so.  If the sport has a Bobby Knight for a coach, my advice would be to go elsewhere or do something else.  Regrettably, with a HS coach, the kids aren't given that choice if they desire to play a particular sport.  So I have a tempered expectation of the level of crap they should have to put up with for recreational athletics.  And in the end, that's the bottom line here...these are recreational sports, not the proving ground for entrance to MLB.

I had pretty good success in multiple sports without being treated like crap by authority figures.  It's just not a necessary tactic if the person knows how to command respect by actions vs. a loud voice.

Oh, and you are right.  I do tend to have a strong opinion on many topics.  There are, however, a pretty good majority of the topics on this site that I have neither the knowledge base, or a strong opinion on, to warrant weighing in on the topic in the manner I have on this one.  In that sense, your observation may be a bit skewed if we have similar interests.  Note, I haven't even read the White Wine topic, nor weighed in on the recent Minot School Bond thread.  Just not my areas.

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Pretty solid.
 

Allen Said:

No irritation or offense taken. 

I just don't like a-holes.  This coach's text smacks of assholishness.  I would have had great reservations about playing for such a coach (thankfully, I have not).  Similarly, as my kids are now in the sports playing age, I don't look forward to people treating them like Shiite simply because they think it's their God given right/duty as a coach to do so.  If the sport has a Bobby Knight for a coach, my advice would be to go elsewhere or do something else.  Regrettably, with a HS coach, the kids aren't given that choice if they desire to play a particular sport.  So I have a tempered expectation of the level of crap they should have to put up with for recreational athletics.  And in the end, that's the bottom line here...these are recreational sports, not the proving ground for entrance to MLB.

I had pretty good success in multiple sports without being treated like crap by authority figures.  It's just not a necessary tactic if the person knows how to command respect by actions vs. a loud voice.

Oh, and you are right.  I do tend to have a strong opinion on many topics.  There are, however, a pretty good majority of the topics on this site that I have neither the knowledge base, or a strong opinion on, to warrant weighing in on the topic in the manner I have on this one.  In that sense, your observation may be a bit skewed if we have similar interests.  Note, I haven't even read the White Wine topic, nor weighed in on the recent Minot School Bond thread.  Just not my areas.

Allen Said:

curtikins_bac Said:
Al, I'm not trying to irritate you.  You have a strong opinion on EVERYTHING and that's great, but something about this topic really got you revved. .  Care to expound?  

No irritation or offense taken. 

I just don't like a-holes.  This coach's text smacks of assholishness.  I would have had great reservations about playing for such a coach (thankfully, I have not).  Similarly, as my kids are now in the sports playing age, I don't look forward to people treating them like Shiite simply because they think it's their God given right/duty as a coach to do so.  If the sport has a Bobby Knight for a coach, my advice would be to go elsewhere or do something else.  Regrettably, with a HS coach, the kids aren't given that choice if they desire to play a particular sport.  So I have a tempered expectation of the level of crap they should have to put up with for recreational athletics.  And in the end, that's the bottom line here...these are recreational sports, not the proving ground for entrance to MLB.

I had pretty good success in multiple sports without being treated like crap by authority figures.  It's just not a necessary tactic if the person knows how to command respect by actions vs. a loud voice.

Oh, and you are right.  I do tend to have a strong opinion on many topics.  There are, however, a pretty good majority of the topics on this site that I have neither the knowledge base, or a strong opinion on, to warrant weighing in on the topic in the manner I have on this one.  In that sense, your observation may be a bit skewed if we have similar interests.  Note, I haven't even read the White Wine topic, nor weighed in on the recent Minot School Bond thread.  Just not my areas.

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 And I'm not trying to argue with you Allen, I agree with what you wrote, but today's day an age no one in a place of power is safe. And it takes a special person to deal with kids that age and parents. Could never pay me a Pugh to do it that's for sure.

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Absolutely correct Icehole & for that big 5K salary, not worth it .

Realicehole Said:
 And I'm not trying to argue with you Allen, I agree with what you wrote, but today's day an age no one in a place of power is safe. And it takes a special person to deal with kids that age and parents. Could never pay me a Pugh to do it that's for sure.

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14 pages????? One simple word freedom. Freedom to text and fire. Eos

Stay thirsty my friends

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When I played sports kids didn 'to even get a text message saying they could be cut or held out of the starting lineup. I guess people prefer hope over truth and didn 'to take much offense or something. Often that is denial.

 

Allen Said:
So the coach sent out a generic text ripping the recipients for not showing enough dedication to work out in the off season, and the school said this isn't the philosophy they wish to put forward?

I'm ok with the school not supporting this, even if non-renewal seems a bit much. 

The coach could and should have chosen his message a lot better.  Words mean things and he could have specifically sent a text to Little Johnny letting him know that his role on the team is at risk if he doesn't do something about his 0.178 batting average, or his 23 unforced errors last season.  

You need not be a jerk to coach at this level.  Save that for the major leagues.


 

 

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How can a text directed at no one be taken out of context?  How is it different if he said this same message in person?  In my opinion kids could have ran home and completely took it out of context and spun it against 'he said this about me mommy!'

And pretty tough to get a message to everyone if he cannot get kids to show up so he can have a meeting. 

nodakker1 Said:
 Im seeing both sides in the wrong here... there should have been an initial meeting to address the complaint with the school's AD, coach and parent.  If it needed to go beyond that, then go up the ladder..but to non renew without a hearing is not the way to do it.  The coach might have a legal case if he wanted to push this one, regardless if it's a private school or not.
As for a parent or student reading the text, it does come off as abrasive so in hindsight, the coach might have been able to express his displeasure without ruffling as many feathers as he obviously did.  Or do it at a team meeting... at least then things cant be taken out of context like they can be through an email or text.
But you know, just another example of why I wonder, in this day and age, why anyone wants to coaches high school kids (and their "fix it for me" parents) anymore!  


 

 

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Probably some parent that was pissed because their kid did not play enough in there eyes. Everyone gets to play, everyone gets a trophy. Kids need to grown up and get thicker skin. Problem is this generation is just getting worse because parents promote this kind of crap. You don't have to work for anything these days, kids want everything handed to them.

Enough already, somebody add some new Friday Funnies to look at.
have a nice weekend

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Old Jake Said:

Quincy05 Said:

Old Jake Said:
Next time my boss tells me I need to put in a little more time and do some more work is it ok if have my mom call the governor to complain?

  Next time your boss calls you pathetic and threatens you based on something you can't control, feel free to go to HR and file a harassment claim. Though that still isn't equivalent because these kids are far from getting paid for what they do, let alone what they do during the off season. So... if an ex-coworker harasses and threatens you over a project you worked on long ago, feel free to go to his boss and complain.

Had the coach just asked for a little more effort amongst the team, I doubt we would even know about the text.

Something I can't control? I don't exactly follow. Are you saying it's ok if I just decided not to show up for work because I don't want to go? Do you have inside information on the situation? You seem to be quite invested? Please give us the rest of the story.

Work is mandatory, these workouts are not. You get paid, these students do not. Still confused why that is so hard to understand.

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The Mantis Said:
 It'll make 20 in a hurry if Quincy05 doesn't shut up.  

gst Said:
I bet if someone were to post for every great high school coach that teaches kids the fundamentals and techniques of a sport, work ethic, sportsmanship and love of the game there is at least one ex player that is trying to relive their glory days thru their players and accomplish what they never did that kids tolerate so they can play sports, this thread could make 20!

Hey you could shut up too, then I wouldn't have to respond to such crappy posts

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Realicehole Said:
 And I'm not trying to argue with you Allen, I agree with what you wrote, but today's day an age no one in a place of power is safe. And it takes a special person to deal with kids that age and parents. Could never pay me a Pugh to do it that's for sure.

I would disagree. It's not that no one is safe, it's that the old style, military background, hard ass coach isn't safe anymore. And if being a special person just means that you aren't an a-hole to your players while getting them motivated, then I would guess there are more qualified people out there than they realize. Perhaps Swanson needed to ask himself why kids may have felt they needed to give an excuse and why they didn't want to attend the work outs in the first place. Blaming it on coddling parents is a weak cop out.

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jiggin4alivin Said:
Lets just make high school sports like pee-wee sports. Everyone plays the same amount and no one keeps score. That way everyone is happy.

If I had to guess, I would be the sniveling parents are a more prominent family in the community. Their kid is a senior who has barely made the team each year or has made the team based mostly on his name. But now that he is a senior his is "entitled" to his playing time regardless of how hard he works.

I would hire that coach in a heartbeat.

I remember when I finally won a wrestle off (or hell, maybe I was given it by default...I forget) and got to be on varsity.  I'll be honest, I was content.  For the next year I got my ass kicked all the time (maybe not completely throttled but close enough).  My coaches said, "Tim, you can be better...so be better."  Maybe I was finally at the age where all the advice given to me was like a light bulb...it finally turned on.  The next year I put in more effort, I changed my attitude and I began winning more.  I ended up failing in my eyes as I had a place in state as my goal but it is what it is.  My biggest regret to this day are those years I didn't take the advice of my parents or my coaches.  I could have been a better athlete and I'll say it now, it could have made me a better person in general...faster.

I watched it over the years where the program started to wander.  It had to do with the talent of the kids and the will of the school system more-so but I watched the coaches fizzle too because culture was making it harder to command discipline, push limits, etc.  It became, political, fairness, don't push too hard or the kid will just quit.  As someone stated, it is the constant trend of Wussification of America.

Maybe there is more to this story, I don't know.  And yes, it is an "open gym" but I'll go back to my days in school.  I didn't do the extra effort a lot of times.  I didn't go to enough in school or out of school strength and agility programs.  I didn't go to enough camps in the summer, etc.  I basically did not commit to being a strong athlete, at least not to the next level.  When I was at practice, I worked hard and displayed leadership.  But I feel like I could have done better.

That is all this Shanley coach was trying to convey.  His text to me is "don't regret these days of your life."  Maybe some of the kids liked baseball but didn't love it.  Maybe some realized they weren't as gifted as others and went throught he motions.  That is fine.  But I also think it is fine that a coach tries to motivate those.  I was motived by my coaches after my Junior year and to this day, I still tell them thanks as I would have basically regretted my entire wrestling career (even if it isn't that stellar in the first place).  I guess a moral victory is a moral victory no matter the level.  To me, that is all he was doing with that text message.

Why the text?  Probably the same reason in my career field the ND GIS hub has to use Twitter and Facebook to announced data changes.  No one shows up for meetings, no one goes to the traditional areas for information.  They fire up Facebook and Tweet on Twitter.  Nothing wrong in my opinion utilizing technology to try and reach the masses.  I'm assuming this coach was also involved in the face to face realm and face to team realm.  He was just using another medium to assist in his motivation tactics.


 

 

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Quincy05 Said:

Realicehole Said:
 And I'm not trying to argue with you Allen, I agree with what you wrote, but today's day an age no one in a place of power is safe. And it takes a special person to deal with kids that age and parents. Could never pay me a Pugh to do it that's for sure.

I would disagree. It's not that no one is safe, it's that the old style, military background, hard ass coach isn't safe anymore. And if being a special person just means that you aren't an a-hole to your players while getting them motivated, then I would guess there are more qualified people out there than they realize. Perhaps Swanson needed to ask himself why kids may have felt they needed to give an excuse and why they didn't want to attend the work outs in the first place. Blaming it on coddling parents is a weak cop out.

It's only a cop out if it's not true...


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Tim Sandstrom Said:

jiggin4alivin Said:
Lets just make high school sports like pee-wee sports. Everyone plays the same amount and no one keeps score. That way everyone is happy.

If I had to guess, I would be the sniveling parents are a more prominent family in the community. Their kid is a senior who has barely made the team each year or has made the team based mostly on his name. But now that he is a senior his is "entitled" to his playing time regardless of how hard he works.

I would hire that coach in a heartbeat.

I remember when I finally won a wrestle off (or hell, maybe I was given it by default...I forget) and got to be on varsity.  I'll be honest, I was content.  For the next year I got my ass kicked all the time (maybe not completely throttled but close enough).  My coaches said, "Tim, you can be better...so be better."  Maybe I was finally at the age where all the advice given to me was like a light bulb...it finally turned on.  The next year I put in more effort, I changed my attitude and I began winning more.  I ended up failing in my eyes as I had a place in state as my goal but it is what it is.  My biggest regret to this day are those years I didn't take the advice of my parents or my coaches.  I could have been a better athlete and I'll say it now, it could have made me a better person in general...faster.

I watched it over the years where the program started to wander.  It had to do with the talent of the kids and the will of the school system more-so but I watched the coaches fizzle too because culture was making it harder to command discipline, push limits, etc.  It became, political, fairness, don't push too hard or the kid will just quit.  As someone stated, it is the constant trend of Wussification of America.

Maybe there is more to this story, I don't know.  And yes, it is an "open gym" but I'll go back to my days in school.  I didn't do the extra effort a lot of times.  I didn't go to enough in school or out of school strength and agility programs.  I didn't go to enough camps in the summer, etc.  I basically did not commit to being a strong athlete, at least not to the next level.  When I was at practice, I worked hard and displayed leadership.  But I feel like I could have done better.

That is all this Shanley coach was trying to convey.  His text to me is "don't regret these days of your life."  Maybe some of the kids liked baseball but didn't love it.  Maybe some realized they weren't as gifted as others and went throught he motions.  That is fine.  But I also think it is fine that a coach tries to motivate those.  I was motived by my coaches after my Junior year and to this day, I still tell them thanks as I would have basically regretted my entire wrestling career (even if it isn't that stellar in the first place).  I guess a moral victory is a moral victory no matter the level.  To me, that is all he was doing with that text message.

Why the text?  Probably the same reason in my career field the ND GIS hub has to use Twitter and Facebook to announced data changes.  No one shows up for meetings, no one goes to the traditional areas for information.  They fire up Facebook and Tweet on Twitter.  Nothing wrong in my opinion utilizing technology to try and reach the masses.  I'm assuming this coach was also involved in the face to face realm and face to team realm.  He was just using another medium to assist in his motivation tactics.

Again do you think this is an isolated incident?

Second part, knowing this individual the little I do, I guarantee you his thought process doesn't go that deep.

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Allen Said:

yelowjackt Said:
Holy crap did you even read the text ????

“We are two months into open gyms and obviously all of you are satisfied with last year’s title,” the message reads. “We are the team that will have a target on our backs. We are the team that everyone throws their ace against. We are the team everyone wants to beat this year. I am sick of stupid excuses to not come to open gym. … If you want to be an athlete commit to it. One hour a week is not too much to ask if you want to be an athlete.

If you make an excuse not to come then you are telling me what kind of athlete you are. I cannot require you to come but I thought I would have a group excited to try and defend a title. Not to make excuses and not care. Some of you are not even in a sport right now, which is even more pathetic. … I will not send out another message like this, but some of you may be in for a rude awakening when the season comes and you are not in the lineup due to a younger player that puts in the time.”

The Class A baseball season opens March 17, with the first contests scheduled for March 28.

Please highlight the "ASSHOLE" parts of this text for those of us that apparently do not comprehend wussification...

I don't much care for the parts in yellow, and the part in red is not only none of his damn business, it is pure assholish. 

And then the very last part, so he says if I don't come down and hang out with him, even if I am the best player on the team he is going to sit me down in place of someone who showed up at these voluntary open gyms.  What, is he that fricking lonely?

I'm suprised football coaches didn't get canned at New Town when they poked fun at the good athletes who didn't play football because they didn't want to get hurt for basketball.  Most of it was joking but there was plenty of seriousness at the same time.

To me, that is all the coach was saying.  Your are not in a sport right now, so what is the excuse.  Who knows, maybe some were working hard, maybe some had a puppy love and were constantly ball and chain.  I don't know.

I guess it all comes down to how thick of skin people have.  At least if I had thin skin I hope I'd have enough common sense/courtesy to give the coach a call or whatever and say look, Johnny is out working to try and pay off his car for college.

IDK, I guess I am old school.  I don't like sympathizing with people.  It never got me anywhere other than I get told I am mean and don't care to "listen."  Oh well, I'm hoping somehow my saying I don't pitty the sympathetic.

I really hated it when football coaches would grab my helmet facemask and drag me around while yelling at me or swinging their whistle and banging it against my helmet.  I should have reported them, I may have a hearing problem or neck issue developing now....

Man was NT football horrible when I was in school and pretty much has been.  It demanded too much of many of the athletes in that area I guess.  I was screwed as I couldn't put on weight for much of my life but now I can't keep it off.  Evil shenannigans!

I remember Travis Olson coming to the school.  He and Hofflund.  They actually cared, they wanted to make NT at least be on a level of competitiveness.  Their big push was non-mandatory practices and weight training.  They gave me shit for not showing up, I didn't run to cry to mommy because of it.  In fact, I started to show up.  Problem is, just when it felt like things were going to change they got offered different jobs and left.  I guess I don't blame them, they wanted to be part of a system that wanted to be compeitive and have pride in itself.

Again, I think that is only what this Shanley coach was trying to do.


 

 

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yelowjackt Said:

Quincy05 Said:

Realicehole Said:
 And I'm not trying to argue with you Allen, I agree with what you wrote, but today's day an age no one in a place of power is safe. And it takes a special person to deal with kids that age and parents. Could never pay me a Pugh to do it that's for sure.

I would disagree. It's not that no one is safe, it's that the old style, military background, hard ass coach isn't safe anymore. And if being a special person just means that you aren't an a-hole to your players while getting them motivated, then I would guess there are more qualified people out there than they realize. Perhaps Swanson needed to ask himself why kids may have felt they needed to give an excuse and why they didn't want to attend the work outs in the first place. Blaming it on coddling parents is a weak cop out.

It's only a cop out if it's not true...

It's a cop out regardless. His actions led him to be fired. He should take his own advice to own up and not make excuses.

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golfer Said:

Tim Sandstrom Said:

jiggin4alivin Said:
Lets just make high school sports like pee-wee sports. Everyone plays the same amount and no one keeps score. That way everyone is happy.

If I had to guess, I would be the sniveling parents are a more prominent family in the community. Their kid is a senior who has barely made the team each year or has made the team based mostly on his name. But now that he is a senior his is "entitled" to his playing time regardless of how hard he works.

I would hire that coach in a heartbeat.

I remember when I finally won a wrestle off (or hell, maybe I was given it by default...I forget) and got to be on varsity.  I'll be honest, I was content.  For the next year I got my ass kicked all the time (maybe not completely throttled but close enough).  My coaches said, "Tim, you can be better...so be better."  Maybe I was finally at the age where all the advice given to me was like a light bulb...it finally turned on.  The next year I put in more effort, I changed my attitude and I began winning more.  I ended up failing in my eyes as I had a place in state as my goal but it is what it is.  My biggest regret to this day are those years I didn't take the advice of my parents or my coaches.  I could have been a better athlete and I'll say it now, it could have made me a better person in general...faster.

I watched it over the years where the program started to wander.  It had to do with the talent of the kids and the will of the school system more-so but I watched the coaches fizzle too because culture was making it harder to command discipline, push limits, etc.  It became, political, fairness, don't push too hard or the kid will just quit.  As someone stated, it is the constant trend of Wussification of America.

Maybe there is more to this story, I don't know.  And yes, it is an "open gym" but I'll go back to my days in school.  I didn't do the extra effort a lot of times.  I didn't go to enough in school or out of school strength and agility programs.  I didn't go to enough camps in the summer, etc.  I basically did not commit to being a strong athlete, at least not to the next level.  When I was at practice, I worked hard and displayed leadership.  But I feel like I could have done better.

That is all this Shanley coach was trying to convey.  His text to me is "don't regret these days of your life."  Maybe some of the kids liked baseball but didn't love it.  Maybe some realized they weren't as gifted as others and went throught he motions.  That is fine.  But I also think it is fine that a coach tries to motivate those.  I was motived by my coaches after my Junior year and to this day, I still tell them thanks as I would have basically regretted my entire wrestling career (even if it isn't that stellar in the first place).  I guess a moral victory is a moral victory no matter the level.  To me, that is all he was doing with that text message.

Why the text?  Probably the same reason in my career field the ND GIS hub has to use Twitter and Facebook to announced data changes.  No one shows up for meetings, no one goes to the traditional areas for information.  They fire up Facebook and Tweet on Twitter.  Nothing wrong in my opinion utilizing technology to try and reach the masses.  I'm assuming this coach was also involved in the face to face realm and face to team realm.  He was just using another medium to assist in his motivation tactics.

Again do you think this is an isolated incident?

Second part, knowing this individual the little I do, I guarantee you his thought process doesn't go that deep.

If there was 14 years of "isolated incidents) and you knowing the person the "little" you do then to me it sounds like the athletic department should be fired for allowing it to continue for 14 years.


 

 

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So will I be a bad parent if I push my kid to go "above and beyond?"

Will I get my name in the paper for being a child abuser?


 

 

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Tim Sandstrom Said:

Again, I think that is only what this Shanley coach was trying to do.

I don't disagree that may have been what he tried to do, but theory and practice are two different things, and his practice of portraying his feelings came off different than a supposed theory behind it.

Hell, maybe some of these kids will regret not taking the time to go to off season work outs. I have regrets from when I played sports; trying harder because of an asshole coach isn't one of them though.

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Tim Sandstrom Said:
So will I be a bad parent if I push my kid to go "above and beyond?"

Will I get my name in the paper for being a child abuser?

You can push your kid to go above and beyond without using negativity and fear. This isn't about a coach trying to push his kids, it's about a coach trying to push his kids when it's not his duty to, using the wrong methods.

Why didn't these kids want to attend the workouts in the first place, and feel the need to make up excuses (if that's the case)?

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Golfer is right. 

That one text is not enough to get canned. I'm sure there are other incidents that built up and this was the straw the broke the camels back.

Lots of assumptions about this coach, parents, etc. We really don't know the whole story. No need to get all pissed off about this. Silly. 

I can say I'm tough with my kids (Hockey coach), but I would not send a text like that. In our system, the coordinators have contact with the parents, not the coaches. We encourage the kids to work over the summer, and some do. Also, we encourage participation other sports to be a more well rounded athlete, and not to specialize until later. (Kids are 9-10 now that I coach, or squirt hockey). Check out the USA Hockey ADM plan. Pretty cool. Even stresses the right nutrition for the kids. 

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gst Said:

zoops Said:
 

jester7_7 Said:
I played hs sports 1998-2002, football, basketball, track, baseball. Loved the lessons I learned, cherished the friendships and lifelong connections. I also showed up for the 'voluntary' Sunday practices. You know what, they didn't make me better. Off season workouts did, oh wait what off season. But even the kid in only 1 sport doesn't deserve to get the rest of his life consumed. 99.9% of HS athletes won't go on to play collegiate and don't deserve to have their weekends taken away. I would have rather been ice fishing with my dad because now I'm an adult and I don't have those memories and we live far apart. Let kids be kids and enjoy their families in the offseason. Yes, be 100% dedicated during the season but don't pretend it's something that it's not. The stud athletes will find their way to the top and put in the work to succeed at the college level if they want it. I was no scrub but looking back I didn't gain as much from giving up Sundays to run crushers as I would have gained in the outdoors with my Dad. And on this site I would hope people would agree with that.

I coach and I totally agree with you.  HS sports are in many cases far too consuming, there's no reason that a kid has to donate their life to a sport (and I don't think that the shanley coach was asking them to).  Problem is the same parents and players who complain about you having too much going on in the offseason would be the same ones who call for your job when you don't win as much as they think you should. 

This is high school sports. What percentage of kids go on to play college sports? What percentage end up making their living playing sports?

Played sports when I was not working on the farm growing up, have kids that play football, basketball and baseball thru out the school year and legion ball in the summer. Love watching my kids play sports. Like ice fishing with my kids even more. Enjoy coyote hunting with my kids even more. Love bow hunting with my kids even more. Love shooting gophers with my kids even more. My kids seem to enjoy these activities  probably equally as they love playing the sports they are in with their friends and under the coaches they have had.

My kids know that if you make a commitment to do something you put your best effort into it and work hard. The only thing I expect from a coach as a parent is to tell me if my kid is not working hard when they are at practice and understand the importance of family. They show up for voluntary lifting, practices ect... most all the time.

Coaches that understand coaching in my experience do not have to "threaten" kids to show up, the kids WANT to show up. These coaches in my experiences also understand the importance of kids spending time with their families doing other things they may love. Most times these coaches are not trying to relive their days on the court thru kids but are teaching and passing on a love of the game they played.

It would seem to be common sense that if you are "forcing" a kid to choose to the point of giving up other things he loves doing to play the one sport you coach, perhaps you are not getting everything out of that kid you could because somewhere that kid is going to have a bit of resentment when he hears other friends talking about all the perch they pulled out of the ice that Sunday he was at practice or the fun he missed dirt biking on a sat. ect.

This year in basketball our schools boys team has had a looooooong year if you measure it only in wins. We have a young team that should be playing JV ball that is playing varsity because of numbers. We don't have exceptionally atheletic individuals with great talent even though they show up at weight lifting, extra practices ect..... It's one of those years. But what we DO have enough to get compliments from people from the other towns we play and to be awfully proud of is kids that NEVER quit playing or whine or bitch regardless of what the score may be. I have watched some pretty successful teams over the years that could not say that on a night their team won. Their commitment to play the game hard till the end and not quit has not gone unnoticed. Part of that comes from parenting, part of it comes from coaching. Kids need a little time with both in my opinion. 

Somehow down the road 20 years, I have the feeling kids like these playing through a pretty tough season and never quitting , will be pretty successful in life as they become adults.

I don't think they learned that at "voluntary" mandatory Sunday practice.

They may even have a few memories of fishing and hunting with their Dad as kids to enjoy as well.

After having one kid grow up and move on to college I have come to understand and treasure even more the value of the times I got to spend with him when he was a kid.

Glad I didn't have to fight a coach for those times.

I'd hate to be a coach in these times.

I disliked weekend workouts and honestly, I don't know if we ever had any.  I didn't realize that was a norm in High School.  Or are you guys making this stuff up to make the point sound better?

Our non-mandatory programs were during mostly the school week and in summer.  They were there, not required to attend but at all levels we were pursuaded to attend if at all possible.  Some did, some didn't.  I don't see where this coach was saying if you didn't show up you were going to be benched.  He said others who are putting in the time and get better will start over you even if you are a senior.  That is how I took it.

This message was meant to inspire those that wanted to be inspired.  You should never get fired for trying to inspire.  If kids didn't want to show up, don't.  Maybe there was one or two kids that were like, "you know what, coach is right, I need to work on my swing a bit."  Good for them (in both cases).  I just don't think fire-able offense unless we don't know the rest of the story.


 

 

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Tim Sandstrom's picture
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Tim Sandstrom Said:
I disliked weekend workouts and honestly, I don't know if we ever had any.  I didn't realize that was a norm in High School.  Or are you guys making this stuff up to make the point sound better?

Our non-mandatory programs were during mostly the school week and in summer.  They were there, not required to attend but at all levels we were pursuaded to attend if at all possible.  Some did, some didn't.  I don't see where this coach was saying if you didn't show up you were going to be benched.  He said others who are putting in the time and get better will start over you even if you are a senior.  That is how I took it.

This message was meant to inspire those that wanted to be inspired.  You should never get fired for trying to inspire.  If kids didn't want to show up, don't.  Maybe there was one or two kids that were like, "you know what, coach is right, I need to work on my swing a bit."  Good for them (in both cases).  I just don't think fire-able offense unless we don't know the rest of the story.

I take that back, we'd be asked to come in over Christmas break to do wrestling practices.  And sometimes we'd have a practice in the morning and one in the afternoon.  Oh wait, nevermind, it was voluntary I mean.....


 

 

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sdwxman Said:
Golfer is right. 

That one text is not enough to get canned. I'm sure there are other incidents that built up and this was the straw the broke the camels back.

Lots of assumptions about this coach, parents, etc. We really don't know the whole story. No need to get all pissed off about this. Silly. 

I can say I'm tough with my kids (Hockey coach), but I would not send a text like that. In our system, the coordinators have contact with the parents, not the coaches. We encourage the kids to work over the summer, and some do. Also, we encourage participation other sports to be a more well rounded athlete, and not to specialize until later. (Kids are 9-10 now that I coach, or squirt hockey). Check out the USA Hockey ADM plan. Pretty cool. Even stresses the right nutrition for the kids. 

I read the word "encourage" as forcefull.  I want a full review and your head!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


 

 

Kirsch's Outdoor Products | Fargo, ND | 701-261-9017 Garmin GPS Hunting Maps
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Quincy05 Said:

Tim Sandstrom Said:
So will I be a bad parent if I push my kid to go "above and beyond?"

Will I get my name in the paper for being a child abuser?

You can push your kid to go above and beyond without using negativity and fear. This isn't about a coach trying to push his kids, it's about a coach trying to push his kids when it's not his duty to, using the wrong methods.

Why didn't these kids want to attend the workouts in the first place, and feel the need to make up excuses (if that's the case)?

If they were like a typical kid they think they know better, that they are good enough and some are just flat out lazy.  That annoys coaches.  Nothing wrong with being annoyed and sending a motivating text.  No where in that text is it even disrespectful.

Wussified America.


 

 

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 Why didn't these kids want to attend the workouts in the first place, and feel the need to make up excuses (if that's the case)?

Because too many of them are lazy and only do what it takes to get by.

Of course too many parents let their kids get by with it too.

God, Family, Green Bay Packers!

Johnny 7

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Tim Sandstrom Said:

sdwxman Said:
Golfer is right. 

That one text is not enough to get canned. I'm sure there are other incidents that built up and this was the straw the broke the camels back.

Lots of assumptions about this coach, parents, etc. We really don't know the whole story. No need to get all pissed off about this. Silly. 

I can say I'm tough with my kids (Hockey coach), but I would not send a text like that. In our system, the coordinators have contact with the parents, not the coaches. We encourage the kids to work over the summer, and some do. Also, we encourage participation other sports to be a more well rounded athlete, and not to specialize until later. (Kids are 9-10 now that I coach, or squirt hockey). Check out the USA Hockey ADM plan. Pretty cool. Even stresses the right nutrition for the kids. 

I read the word "encourage" as forcefull.  I want a full review and your head!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yes. I am about to be canned for "encouragement" of the kids. LOL

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Tim Sandstrom Said:
So will I be a bad parent if I push my kid to go "above and beyond?"

Will I get my name in the paper for being a child abuser?

I don't think anyone is suggesting helping your kids and giving them the tools to go above and beyond in sports as well as life is out of line. Most would call that eing a good parent.

It would likely depend on what one considers "pushing".

I have seen parents that have "pushed" their kids to go "above and beyond" that did cross a line in my book and believe me that is a pretty hard line to cross.

Just like parents that cross these lines with kids, so do some coaches.

Someone posted a response from the coach where he speaks about his "era" at Shanley ending?

Most really great coaches I have known would not look at their dedication to teaching kids as being their "era" in a school.

Is it really about helping ones players learn the game and push themselves to play to the very best capabilities they can to see how far it can take you in the sport they play and learn a love of the game and carry those lessons of hard work and dedication and enjoying what you are doing over into life or getting another title for yourself as the coach?

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Tim Sandstrom Said:

Quincy05 Said:

Tim Sandstrom Said:
So will I be a bad parent if I push my kid to go "above and beyond?"

Will I get my name in the paper for being a child abuser?

You can push your kid to go above and beyond without using negativity and fear. This isn't about a coach trying to push his kids, it's about a coach trying to push his kids when it's not his duty to, using the wrong methods.

Why didn't these kids want to attend the workouts in the first place, and feel the need to make up excuses (if that's the case)?

If they were like a typical kid they think they know better, that they are good enough and some are just flat out lazy.  That annoys coaches.  Nothing wrong with being annoyed and sending a motivating text.  No where in that text is it even disrespectful.

Wussified America.

You really don't see the disrespect? Allen highlighted the aspects that were unneeded. Claiming you aren't an athlete if you don't attend the voluntary workouts. Saying that only playing one sport is pathetic, etc.

If being respectful is wussified America, then I'm glad we're ending the reign of asshole America.

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sparetire Said:

 Oh boy. I think I agree with gst. Since that means the world is ending, this thread will never make 20 pages. 

gst Said:

KurtR Said:

Surprising there are enough kids that can go to basic any more if this hurt there feelings.  DI's are not very understanding about feelings and such but I guess it is now the world we live in.  Every ones a winner and just trying is good enough

I get your point kurt, but one is preparing young men to kill someone or try not to get killed themselves and one is teaching a kid how to play ball.

Believe me, my kids would tell you I don't take any whiney ass crap from them when they are expected to do things and commit their time to sports. They know they are not to waste their coaches and team mates time by not putting all their effort into what they do.

I am alright with toughening kids up a bit and having whiney ass parents take a hike.

Had more than one basketball hit me in the back of the head in practice for screwing off back in the day never had a problem with it back then (knew if I did I would get tuned up at home for screwing around)  and I might not have much of a problem with a coach waking up one of my kids with a whack to the helmet if it is deserved and needed.

Nor do I believe everyone should be rewarded equally and that hard work should get you somewhere and be rewarded.

I had a very successful coach (not only in w's and l's but in gaining kids lifelong respect) tell me once you simply can not handle every kid the same. Ages, personalities backgrounds, home life  ect,... all play into it. You can't handle a freshman playing varsity the same way you handle a senior. ect...

Some kids families can not afford them going to "voluntary" practices. (where some kids in our school  live  it is $10 bucks every time the kid drives to town(co op = miles) Some kids are working jobs. Lots of different reasons and circumstances to take into consideration.

I really know nothing about this particular situation and my comments are not directed towards it, more towards experiences watching a few years of high school sports. But when people suggest a coach has to yell and throw things and be a jackass to be "respected" by the kids he coaches, as some have on here, it makes one think abit.

It seems where you have grown up makes a difference also when I was a junior we has 320 kids trying out for the 12 varsity spots so if you didn't go to open gym or didn't make an impression you were lost in the wash.  If you had a coach get on you it was good because he saw some thing that made it worth his time.  I never took an ass chewing personally and most of the time realized it was deserved.  Guess I never had a coach tell me I had to go to an open gym we all just new it was expected if you wanted to have a shot at making the team some thing we learned from the upper classmen at summer bball camps.  Mom and Dad never forced me to go practice but quitting mid season was not an option.  I know I remember the biggest thing a coach ever told me was when he pulled me out of a game and said he was disappointed with my effort when I got put back I made sure not to make that mistake again as I respected him and did not want to do that again.  Maybe there is a lot more to the story but I see this guy as trying to light a fire maybe not conveyed in the best way in the text but from this one incident not fireable.  I guess different kids respond to coaching differently but there were times were I needed to be jacked up and put back in line.  The great coaches new when it was time to go bobby knight on it or when to be phil Jackson to get the best out of there players.

 Adn

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BrokenBackJack Said:
 Why didn't these kids want to attend the workouts in the first place, and feel the need to make up excuses (if that's the case)?

Because too many of them are lazy and only do what it takes to get by.
Of course too many parents let their kids get by with it too.

Jesus, such a cop out. Not every kid is lazy FYI. Not every kid is unmotivatable. Not every kid is the opposite of the previous generation in terms of work ethic. This type of crap gets said after every new generation gets to a point. It's no more true now than it was 40 years ago.

But hey, I'll humor this crap and say, okay, the kids are lazy. Why were they not lazy during the season, but suddenly are now? Why aren't the kids motivated enough by the coach during the season and winning a chip that they suddenly became lazy? Or is the assumption that all of the high schoolers are lazy and they did just enough to win a state title?

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