Should Big Three Drawing Move to Point System Based on Age?

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dakota1977's picture
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Should Big Three Drawing Move to Point System Based on Age?

What are your thoughts on this idea? If you read the article, it's a variation of the preference points system, but based on age.

Link:

https://www.theminutemanblog.com/single-post/2017/07/27/Why-North-Dakota...

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Bad idea. All the tags would be going to 70 year olds who can barely get around much less hunt. What they need to do is start eliminating multiple gratis licenses. If it's a once in a lifetime tag for a non land owning peon it should be the same for a landowner. Sick of seeing these landowners who post their property like a prison and shoot a big bull every year or every other year.

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I suppose that could be a concern that the issuance of tags would be heavier on the side of the older crowd, but the concern that it would be too heavy could be remedied by reducing the number of times their application goes into the drawing while still maintaining the increased statistical chance. I like the idea. And like the author said, maybe it's not a perfect solution and is open to modification but I think it's workable and actually based on a good premise. This could definitely be worked so that there's a variety of age drawing tags, but still favor a person the older they get. Besides, I would bet there's not many of the 70+ crowd that actually even bother applying. Elk hunting is, in most cases, physically demanding and nature demands that there be less of that age group that actually apply.

 

-Justin

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I think an age based system could work pretty well, of course it needs to be tweaked to prevent all of the tags every year from going to the old timers.  Perhaps after a certain age your odds worsen a bit to favor folks in age ranges closer to middle aged?  Just a quick thought that popped into my head, that probably wouldn't work well either. heh.

Don't practice until you get it right, practice until you can't get it wrong.

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Nope, not in favor of this idea. Its not in the best interest of people trying to draw. Its as fair of a system as there is. Any preference point system has point creep and works against people in the long run. I understand tweeking the system to favor people a bit more but drawing the tag at 60 plus isnt ideal for anyone. If you really want to hunt those species, you could easily save enough over your life before you reach 60 and go on a hunt elsewhere. Ill be the mean guy accusing landowners of too many gratis tags. There are plenty of people for elk hunting that transfer lands and rotate who gets gratis tags every year. That part is the broken system. 

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I dont like the age based idea at all becuase what if they dont start applying until they are 50-60 years old. I am all for the points system though. I didnt even know they give gratis for elk and moose that sounds a bit crooked, its not like they cant run them off their land if they are being a problem. 

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Interesting concept...without blowing the preference points to an extreme skew, a small advantage to older folks might be worthwhile.  Like they said, might not be that many sr. citizens actually applying. My dad wanted to increase his chance of getting an elk tag before he was too old, so he put in for a cow tag and drew a tag at the age of 80...never connected, missed a couple 40 yard shots out of a blind with his recurve...

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Preference Point systems don't work on tags where there are not enough tags to ensuring a person can draw at lest once in their life. All you will end up with is a huge load of people with maxed out points still only drawing at a tiny fraction of those who put in and younger people being all but screwed! Its simple math folks and preference points do not help they don't even make it better they actually make it worse and you still don't draw a tag unless you're insanely lucky that's just the way it is! One app one draw is the only legitimate way to do it and doesn't favor anybody old or young. 

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What draw weight recurve was he shooting at 80??? surprise

 

 

Pat's Place wrote:

Interesting concept...without blowing the preference points to an extreme skew, a small advantage to older folks might be worthwhile.  Like they said, might not be that many sr. citizens actually applying. My dad wanted to increase his chance of getting an elk tag before he was too old, so he put in for a cow tag and drew a tag at the age of 80...never connected, missed a couple 40 yard shots out of a blind with his recurve...

You can't aim a duck to death.

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At the risk of attracting my stalker I would agree with only one gratis license in a lifetime.  The other problem people are buying up land so they can get a gratis license then leasing the land to the same person they bought it for, or selling it back a few years later.  There are scams going on with our elk license. 

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Look at deans comment. 

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I think Dean probably hit the nail on the head here.  It's fun to try to think of other ways that things could work in this situation but ultimately any sort of preference point system here would probably not work in anyones favor.

Don't practice until you get it right, practice until you can't get it wrong.

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He was shooting a 48# recurve...he's down to 45# now...90th birthday today, and is he excited about the bow opener in the badlands this fall!            As Dean pointed out, accumulating preference points for the once in a a lifetime tags would be a folly....but an interesting twist might be to give you an extra point for every decade you have lived in the state, etc....so that it would be more likely to award tags to people that have been in the state longer...

 

 

 

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Something needs to change with this though I know guys that have been putting in for 30 plus years and havent drawn but the wife is friends with a guy that sent in for the first time ever this year he drew a bull elk AND a bull moose.

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How do you change something that can never remotely be guaranteed? It's called luck of the draw for a reason! Should they make it so the powerball has staggered odds to favor those people who have played longer? The vast vast majority people will never draw and that can never be changed no matter what you do so you would just be throwing a pointless unfare rule at a problem that only increasing big game population can fix!

 

You want to bitch about something bitch about the outright war on elk this state has. The herd could be and would be massively bigger then it is if they didn't rape the herd each year but they don't want the farmers mad so the rest of us get screwed. Elk should occupy nearly 100% of the bad lands as well as all the major river drainages in the western half of the state. Luckily a new herd flew under the radar for long enough to set up our third distinct population but the secret is now out so their expansion will be slowed dramatically now as well.

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Why would we have an age biased drawing without including youth tags?

Seriously, is there anything else we can do for the baby boomers? Funny how this is the same generation who has run down millenials because of their "sense of entitlement"

Idaho has the same system without preference points ... it works. 

 

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Obviously you got a little butt hurt at the fact I dont think its right a guy can pull 2 tags his first year. Its simple changes like contact that individual ask what tag they want the one they dont take they are still eligible you can do it for sheep so why not with elk or moose. Tell the farmer and rancher that bitch about the HUGE elk herd that shoot a bull every year that if they want herd control let someone hunt it or give them a cow tag every other year. Nobody here is bitching but throwing it out there that things can be changed to help increase the odds for everyone involved. Simple changes not another broken lottery system that wouldnt work in the first place.

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One big flaw that in the proposition that i feel would have to be addressed would be the scenario where someone would move to north dakota, say at the age of 50, have residency for 6 months, and automatically have their name in the drawing more than a 30 year old who has been applying since they were 14. In my opinion, the time of residency should be more than 6 months to be able to apply for the big 3, but thats just me. Also i think the lottery should stay the way it is.

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So let's hear it give us a suggestion on how you would change it. But no half-cocked ideas you need to suport your suggestion with actual numbers on how much of a % change a person will see in their draw odds over a lifetime! The draw odds are available and I'm sure the game and fish as well as many other DNR's around the country will be waiting with baited breath. I would love to see this new majical type of math that apparently has been discovered that will somehow fix the problem of only one in ten will draw in their lifetime. Only thing your suggestions would change sofar is that many people would be to old to actually get out there and hunt when they finally get lucky and draw when they are 82. 

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You are clearly a great reader not gonna have a pissing match with someone that thinks the system is perfect. How asking a guy to choose between the 2 bull tags he drew and putting the ine he doesnt want back in the pool for someone else to draw stacks even more odds against hunters is beyond me but hey you keep faith in the perfect system that they have going on.

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So if someone draws a buck tag for gun and muzzle loader he should what have to give one back? How about pronghorn vs deer ....what only drawing one. No the fact is is that there is no way to fix it it simply comes down to the numbers and there is no majical bullet to cure that! The reality is you have no idea how to fix it so your just bitching about it with absolutely no real ideas that could actually do anything but stroke a persons ego to think they have a better chance when they actually dont so of course you're not going to argue about it you have no point to argue.

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Deer and pronghorn arent once in a lifetime thats comparing apples to oranges . Im far from bitching im making a suggestions something that you clearly dont have you want it to stay the same thats youre opinion. I've talked to alot more people that dont think you should pull 2 or 3 tags you get one you stay eligible for the ones you dont take. If you dont draw a tag big deal wasnt meant to happen.

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But doesn't change the odds since that phenomenon most likely happens less than once in a year and probably considerably less than once a year. So in the end its just the green monster of envy for a guy that got insanely lucky and who if forced to put one back would be HIGHLY unlikely to ever redraw that tag again in their life.